Main irish airsoft drill holes in cylinder?

SlappyTheSeal

Hi i have heard from several sources that Mia drill holes in the cylinders of there guns? I checked my g&g m4 and theres a hole in the cylinder. Its quite small but its got me worried. Why didnt they downgrade the spring? My guns out of warrenty beacause i dissasembeled it to find out if there really was a hole in the cylinder. Is there any way i can take action to make them get me a new cylender for the damage they have done to it? In all honesty i will not be buying from them again.

thermo

mia drilling guns to downgrade is old news im afraid.

Zomg Okay

SlappyTheSeal wrote: »

Why didnt they downgrade the spring?

From what I understand, it's cheaper and quicker. You don't need a replacement spring, making it cheaper. You don't have to change the spring, making it quicker.

SlappyTheSeal

Oh The point mia are getting across is "As long as we get your money , we dont give a f*** about what happens afterward, to you or your gun" Ill definatly be buying from somewhere that cares about there customers ...

SlappyTheSeal

Zomg Okay wrote: »

SlappyTheSeal wrote: »

Why didnt they downgrade the spring?

From what I understand, it's cheaper and quicker. You don't need a replacement spring, making it cheaper. You don't have to change the spring, making it quicker.

But the metal shavings get inside your piston? That will definatly make your gearbox less reliable .

Zomg Okay

SlappyTheSeal wrote: »

But the metal shavings get inside your piston? That will definatly make your gearbox less reliable .

That's just what I picked up on a previous thread about drilling. I was just suggesting reasons they'd do it, certainly wasn't justifying it or anything.

thermo

when i was a regular customer in mia (waaay back int the day) you could ask for a spring changed gun but it turns out most people did not want to pay the extra €10-15.....................

SlappyTheSeal

Zomg Okay wrote: »

SlappyTheSeal wrote: »

But the metal shavings get inside your piston? That will definatly make your gearbox less reliable .

That's just what I picked up on a previous thread about drilling. I was just suggesting reasons they'd do it, certainly wasn't justifying it or anything.

Also i could simply put some tape over it or hot glue over the hole. That would make my gun over 1 joule which is illigeal ? Just makes it easyier for someone new to airsoft to get arrested.. itll probably go something like this "Oh look a hole in my gun. I gotta put hot glue over it. It will make my gun faster ! Then ill be better than anyone else *hot glues hole* Brings gun airsofting *gardai stops car* brings gun down to station. *chronos gun* *gun destoyed and kid charged with possesion of a firearm* "

SlappyTheSeal

thermo wrote: »

when i was a regular customer in mia (waaay back int the day) you could ask for a spring changed gun but it turns out most people did not want to pay the extra €10-15.....................

I would pay the extra 15 euro in a heartbeat if i could.

thermo

SlappyTheSeal wrote: »

I would pay the extra 15 euro in a heartbeat if i could.

you will know the next time

stephenw

Just wondering, Is your m4 one of the blowback models? as the blowback models have a hole in the top of the cylinder to run the actual blowback mechanism.

SlappyTheSeal

stephenw wrote: »

Just wondering, Is your m4 one of the blowback models? as the blowback models have a hole in the top of the cylinder to run the actual blowback mechanism.

Nope non blowback

gerrowadat

Pretty much every airsoft shop has drilled cylinders, with a few notable exceptions (in fact, one window-licker once told me he was trying to patent the 'technique').

For a gun that costs 150 quid, the extra expense and hassle ain't worth it, especially when the majority of customers aren't even airsofters.

Rooky1

As has already been said drilling the cylinders is a very common method of cheap downgrading.

I recently bought an AEG from another Irish retailer who down grade by the way of a spring change or by snipping a couple of coils of the original spring.
They put a QC tested sticker on the box stating 317fps.
In reality when I tested it on 2 chronos it came in at 272fps.:(

On taking the gearbox apart they literally cut a third of the spring away.
As they went to the bother of taking it apart they might as well put the correct spring in it.

I have no problem personally with trimming a spring if it is done correctly.

I think when buying from an Irish retailer it is probably worth asking them to downgrade by changing the spring and paying the few extra euros.

gerrowadat

Unfortunately when snipping there's no definitive way to do it. The spring isn't a uniform coil, so you may end up snipping, re-assembling, chronoing and then starting again. Boom, there's time and money wasted.

Dogwatch

gerrowadat wrote: »

Pretty much every airsoft shop has drilled cylinders, with a few notable exceptions (in fact, one window-licker once told me he was trying to patent the 'technique').

For a gun that costs 150 quid, the extra expense and hassle ain't worth it, especially when the majority of customers aren't even airsofters.

What is a "window-licker" as you put it??????

gerrowadat

Dogwatch wrote: »

What is a "window-licker" as you put it??????

<snip>

TheDoc

So drilling is now just the standard is it?

Considering the only positive is saving the retailer time and money, and the negative is so much higher, there shouldnt be any additional cost to the consumer.

If a retailer asked for extra money to downgrade by spring I'd very promptly tell them what to suck

sci-ops

TheDoc wrote: »

If a retailer asked for extra money to downgrade by spring I'd very promptly tell them what to suck

Really??, so let me ask you, when buying from abroad, who all charge for the privilege of downgrading, what's the difference?

NakedDex

They're not marketing to a sub-1J consumer, unlike shops here.

Stercus Accidit

If & when the day comes that we are stuck buying locally as per the future legislations, I won't be buying anything with drilled anything.

I'd sooner buy an aeg without a spring and do one up myself and let the onus be on me to ensure its legality. I don't want metal shavings in my cylinder, or an overpowered spring wearing my piston out and slowing my rof.

gerrowadat

Shops can charge what they like for upgrades, it's up to them to play the market so they keep customers coming back. Clearly most people don't give a ****.

The number I've heard for non-airsofters/plinkers/collectors who buy from airsoft shops is something north of 80%. Like it or not, airsofters are the exception in the maket. I don't walk into a dealership, buy a new car, then walk back in two weeks later saying they got the gear ratios all wrong. Same thing applies.

Kristov

SlappyTheSeal wrote: »

Hi i have heard from several sources that Mia drill holes in the cylinders of there guns? I checked my g&g m4 and theres a hole in the cylinder. Its quite small but its got me worried. Why didnt they downgrade the spring? My guns out of warrenty beacause i dissasembeled it to find out if there really was a hole in the cylinder. Is there any way i can take action to make them get me a new cylender for the damage they have done to it? In all honesty i will not be buying from them again.

Beleve it or not MIA have spoken to all the major manufacters and suppliers of AEGs and its the almost same reply from every one of them and this is it .."more or less"

Yes we are happy to build/supply your aegs below one joule but your minium order is 500/1000 of each type... plus there is an extra charge from them to change the springs in their already supplied gearboxs...... its far cheaper to buy 50 of each type and drill a small hole .

If a supplier/manufactor offers sub one joule AEGs then most likley they are going to be 0.7j .. then youll moan that its to low and have to pay to get it up to one joule ...
Drilling them is by far the easiest/cheapest option .. for everyone

If it wasnt your AEG when it was drilled you cant make them replace the cylinder .
I know that if somone wants a spring change before buying an AEG they will have to pay atleast the cost of spring and have to wait a day or two more for the AEG .

Lemming

Kristov wrote: »

Drilling them is by far the easiest/cheapest option .. for everyone except the customer

Fixed that for you.

If it wasnt your AEG when it was drilled you cant make them replace the cylinder .

What the hell does this mean exactly? It's an absurd statement to make if I have read it correctly; whereby if the shop drill it after you've bought it then you've no comeback even though they are still legally obliged to ensure the AEG is < 1j before they hand it over anyway.

gerrowadat

Lemming wrote: »

Fixed that for you.



What the hell does this mean exactly? It's an absurd statement to make if I have read it correctly; whereby if the shop drill it after you've bought it then you've no comeback even though they are still legally obliged to ensure the AEG is < 1j before they hand it over anyway.

I think what he means is that the shop sell the downgraded gun as-is, and if you want something particular done with it (i.e. a spring downgrade) you should agree in advance, since a spring downgrade is the exception rather than the norm.

Kristov

Gerrowadat ..thats exactly what i mean "
why do some people complicate everything they read on this forum .. if somone says hi do they grab an encyclopedia and try find out in what context somone said hi or what exactly do you mean by hi ......

The aeg is the property of the retailer and they can downgrade it as they want .
It just happens to be quicker and easier to drill a small hole in the cylinder ..

If you want a spring change then ask for it before you buy your AEG but you will have to wait a day or so ..

There simply is not enough time to change the springs in every AEG most retailers employ 4/5 members of staff that have to do other jobs during the day.... its not sit around and drink tea all day untill someone walks in looking for an AEG then go drill it while they wait ..

Puding

pPoblem I have is with the miss information that is given out, I have seen to many people turn up on site having been given miss information by retailers about this topic, in general their are two main areas that concern me...

I have no problem with drilling being given as an options but when customer are not informed and then charged for 'upgrading' their aeg to bring it even to the level it should be stock

From experience downgrading by drilling gives inconsistent results and is far to easy to revers and put the device over a joule again. If downgraded by spring the user has to make a choice to open the gearbox and upgrade it again. I've regularly seen aeg downgraded by spring go back over the joule over time by the hole simply becoming blocked by crap.

Lemming

Kristov wrote: »

Gerrowadat ..thats exactly what i mean "
why do some people complicate everything they read on this forum .. if somone says hi do they grab an encyclopedia and try find out in what context somone said hi or what exactly do you mean by hi ......

First off, jog on & cry me a river with the attitude. Secondly, perhaps better use of grammar might have helped avoid the misunderstanding. Regardless, my thanks to Gerrowadat for interpreting what you actually meant to say.

The aeg is the property of the retailer and they can downgrade it as they want .
It just happens to be quicker and easier to drill a small hole in the cylinder ..

Which retailer do you belong to? I'll be giving it a wide, wide, ever-so-wide berth with an attitude towards customers like that.

If you want a spring change then ask for it before you buy your AEG but you will have to wait a day or so ..

Will that also involve a replacement whatever-component-part-got-drilled too? Or is that an added extra?

There simply is not enough time to change the springs in every AEG most retailers employ 4/5 members of staff that have to do other jobs during the day.... its not sit around and drink tea all day untill someone walks in looking for an AEG then go drill it while they wait ..

I find it decidedly questionable to imply that an Irish retailer (or UK one for that matter) is selling an AEG every 30 minutes (rough estimates on a spring-change by a competent tech) or so every single day, doubly so in the current economic climate. What you really mean to say is it's down to "what's most convenient for the retailer, not what's best for the customer".

Steve

Lemming wrote: »

First off, jog on & cry me a river with the attitude. Secondly, perhaps better use of grammar might have helped avoid the misunderstanding.

No need for that Lemming, please be more respectful to other posters. You know the drill, report the post etc. and don't backseat mod.
Thanks.

Kristov

Attitude ...jog on cry you a river ......

i will appreaciate if you "lemming" dont ever reply to any of my posts or questions ever again .

ever since i started posting on here you have always come in turned things around and changed the post from what it origanly was ..

as for my grammer no one else seems to have a problem but you ..

perhaps ill rewrite my post in what ever mindset it is that you live in or can understand ..

i posted earlier that gerrowadat was correct... but you still had to pull my reply apart and analyse it ... you could have said thanks for clearing that up or similar ..

not one other person has a problem .. but you ..

pudding you said an aeg should be sub one joule as "stock/standard" about 90/95 percent of airsoft manufactors build their AEGs stock with 120/130 mtr springs ..
because we here in ireland are part of an airsoft minority these companys will not change the way they do things for a small order of a couple hundred AEGs when they can make more money just carrying on as they do ..

and if they do agree to do it they charge more than for their standard AEGs there is a miniumum quantity order which is far to many of one of each type/model of AEG to hold in stock for any retailer here ....

if somone comes in with an AEG they bought online or where ever and its over the limit they are told both ways of down grading and asked which they want most will go for a small hole in the cylinder rather than pay for a spring and the time to wait ..

if somone asks for a spring change before they buy then this is done for them ..

SlappyTheSeal

gerrowadat wrote: »

Dogwatch wrote: »

What is a "window-licker" as you put it??????

...

You ledgend...

Steve

Kristov, if you have an issue with a post then please report it and let us mods deal with it. You are welcome to disagree with someone's opinion but you may not make it personal. Thanks.

jayod30

Kristov wrote: »

because we here in ireland are part of an airsoft minority these companys will not change the way they do things for a small order of a couple hundred AEGs when they can make more money just carrying on as they do ..

and if they do agree to do it they charge more than for their standard AEGs there is a miniumum quantity order which is far to many of one of each type/model of AEG to hold in stock for any retailer here .....

I would say then would it not make more sense to ask the supplier to downgrade them before importing, then pass on the extra charge to the customer. I've imported alot of aeg's and downgrading spring change has always cost me between $20/$25 dollars, not much by my standards to get a good aeg without any holes in it. What's that, roughly €15 extra on your aeg, would sound pretty fair to me.

On the flip side though, quoting Lemming "30 minutes (rough estimates on a spring-change by a competent tech)", if a retailer has lets say 200 aeg's on his order, at 30 mins per spring change that's gonna keep 1 tech buried away for over a week downgrading every one. In the meantime you have repairs and upgrades to consider aswell. It prob just doesn't make good business sense for retailers, hence the drilling. And I ain't tarnishing all retailers with the same brush but MIA aren't the first and won't be the last.

gerrowadat

I think the important and most overlooked point here is this: 80-90% of people who buy an AEG in ireland do not give a **** or will not notice how it has been downgraded.

Take away all the plinkers, collectors and messers, then take away the occasional players who never touch their guns, the young/skint fellas who are in no position to be opening and upgrading guns, and the riddlers with box mags for whom it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. You're left with very few people indeed.

If you get a manufacturer to downgrade, you have to pass on the $25 to the consumer, which buries you competition wise. A serious retailer that only does spring downgrades wouldn't last 5 minutes, especially given the market nowadays.

Deadpool

[QUOTE=Kristov;.

The aeg is the property of the retailer and they can downgrade it as they want .
It just happens to be quicker and easier to drill a small hole in the cylinder ..

So in that context,if the retailer can get in a VFC aeg and take all the parts out put in plastic gears and sell it to you for 500 euro..Also I know one shop that i go to where the "tech" is doing something all day and not sitting on his ass.He changes the springs when the guns come in and does not drill holes.What else would you pay him for...repairs maybe where you drilled a hole and the metal bits get into the trigger contacts and fry them or ruin the o ring and "oh no" its 25 euro to open your gun for you just to see whats wrong.

Lemming

jayod30 wrote: »

On the flip side though, quoting Lemming "30 minutes (rough estimates on a spring-change by a competent tech)", if a retailer has lets say 200 aeg's on his order, at 30 mins per spring change that's gonna keep 1 tech buried away for over a week downgrading every one. In the meantime you have repairs and upgrades to consider aswell. It prob just doesn't make good business sense for retailers, hence the drilling. And I ain't tarnishing all retailers with the same brush but MIA aren't the first and won't be the last.

Most (by 'most' I mean outside of the likes of Redwolf & ehobby) retailers aren't ordering 200+ guns every week (just to stick with that figure for the sake of argument). Or every other week at that either. Nor are you going to be shifting that volume of stock every week either necessitating that a tech downgrade a shipment all in one go; that caters for allowing moving between other tasks, such as repairs or inventory etc.

And where online orders are concerned, the retailer has a little more leeway again, with regards getting a gun out the door.

Kristov

I dont have an issue with this thread and im not making it personal ...


These china companys that build your AEGs build them to order "they dont stock them" if you place an order with them they will ask for a percentage of payment up front then go build them if you ask them to fit sub 1j springs they will come back to you and tell you they dont build the gearboxs and are supplied already built and they cant/wont change the spring ..


Lets say it takes 30 mins to change a spring in an AEG and get it back together then chrono it this is where more time comes into the equasion the AEG could be way over or way under and you have to start all over again ..

I have had to open AEGs more than once because in one piston/cylinder/hopup setup a 90 spring could give you what you want and in another AEG the very same spring can be way under or again as i have seen in one companys AEGs be way over . Back to square one more time wasted opening it again ..

Like i said before aside from doing other jobs at any retailers "upgrades/downgrades/phones/customers/website/stock levels/looking for other suppliers" and what ever else thay have to do there simply is not enough time to do this for every AEG ..

Deadpool

Drilling holes can leave the aeg well under.So now do you sell the thing at the .4j or do you take out the vfc cylinder and throw in one you happen to have sitting there.Then you sitting there with the gearbox open do you A:put in a new spring or B:put it back together with the crap cylinder and drill it again or C: shelf the aeg until you get a new VFC cylinder and then its back to A or B again.
Useing VFC as example please use G&G or CA or TM if you want

the_syco

SlappyTheSeal wrote: »

a hole in the cylinder

Could said holes be blocked accidentally by paint of someone was doing a DIY respray job?

gerrowadat wrote: »

in fact, one window-licker once told me he was trying to patent the 'technique'

Patenting the 'technique' would probably be the best way to stop it, as you could charge them more to do it than just replacing the spring would be, and thus make it cheaper to replace the spring :pac:

Lemming

Kristov wrote: »

Lets say it takes 30 mins to change a spring in an AEG and get it back together then chrono it this is where more time comes into the equasion the AEG could be way over or way under and you have to start all over again ..

I have had to open AEGs more than once because in one piston/cylinder/hopup setup a 90 spring could give you what you want and in another AEG the very same spring can be way under or again as i have seen in one companys AEGs be way over . Back to square one more time wasted opening it again ..

Like i said before aside from doing other jobs at any retailers "upgrades/downgrades/phones/customers/website/stock levels/looking for other suppliers" and what ever else thay have to do there simply is not enough time to do this for every AEG ..

None of which is the customers problem, or their fault. By drilling as de-facto 'standard' you remove their right to choose for the sake of your own convenience. You will most probably respond by saying that they can request a spring change, but by then you've already drilled the gearbox and are consequently charging them for a spring (fair enough that's what they've requested), new non-drilled components, time & labour.

The customer is your end goal, not convenience-downgrading your stock. This whole attitude [in general] of "whatever, the customer will take what they get and be grateful for it" is - imo - an ugly hangover from the celtic tiger corpse where sight of the customer was lost. I would imagine that if plinkers informed themselves like skirmishers, they'd not be best happy about it either; the only thing keeping them quiet is ignorance of the matter, so trying to say that a minority of purchases are to skirmishers isn't really a positive argument either.

Further, if you wish to rely on arguments around unreliability about spring changing or 'getting it wrong', I will give two responses;

1. Drilling is even more unreliable & inconsistent, not to mention p*ss-poor and shoddy workmanship.
2. On 'getting it wrong' whilst downgrading: that is the tech's problem - not the customer's - and they need to stop getting it wrong and start getting it right. Yes, mistakes happen & they are a pain in the ass, but if you are the one who has made the mistake then the onus is on you [the tech] to rectify the situation because again, that is what you are being paid to do. If you think that's a harsh statement to make; it's no different to any other trade/job/whatever, and I would ask exactly what are you [the tech] being paid for if you disagree?

The bottom line - any which way someone may try to justify the act of drilling - is that it short-changes the customer and stacks up problems for later, not least of which gives the customer a dissatisfying experience with an unreliable & inconsistently performing gun, be they a skirmisher or plinker.

tomaswatkins

ive bought guns with drilled cylinders of MIA for years never had any problems. Some of you mention there being swarf inside the cylinders? no? it blows out the air nozzle and down barrel no problem. As long as you clean your barrel as every airsofter should you will have no more problems than usuall.

Before someone asks yes i do open AEGs and have opend about 8 with drilled cylinders and they have all been for regular greasing and servicing.

A drilled cylinder is just lettling out air. The very same as a vented cylinder gotten on m4s and short barreld AEGs. What exactly is yere problems with drilling cylindrs? im not having ago at anyone either just saying ive never personally had any problems from drilled cylinders.

Lemming

the_syco wrote: »

Patenting the 'technique' would probably be the best way to stop it, as you could charge them more to do it than just replacing the spring would be, and thus make it cheaper to replace the spring :pac:

Now that is creative lateral thinking; so outside the box it's positively genius. I find your idea intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter :pac:

T4RGET

tomaswatkins wrote: »

ive bought guns with drilled cylinders of MIA for years never had any problems. Some of you mention there being swarf inside the cylinders? no? it blows out the air nozzle and down barrel no problem. As long as you clean your barrel as every airsofter should you will have no more problems than usuall.

I'm sorry but I can't see how the swarf as you mentioned can get out of the gearbox? wouldn't the piston head it self stop it entering the air nozzle/barrel. And even if it did I definitely wouldn't want that near my hop up and barrel. I've owned one AEG with a drilled cylinder and I think what people's problem is the laziness involved, and the problems it causes, your gears are sill turning over a M150 or whatever spring, by putting in a M90 or in some cases M100 spring it would make the AEG function better and for longer.

NakedDex

A friend asked me to do an upgrade on his rifle a while ago, bought from a retailer remaining nameless, as he wasn't happy with the rate of fire compared to others he played against.

I had priced motors, wiring, MOSFET and battery upgrades for him, before I saw it and noticed the drilled cylinder. I opened the gearbox, swapped the cylinder for a new one, and changed the spring for an MS95. Suddenly the rifle went from about 13rps to 19rps and had a far more consistent shot string. It also didn't sound like it was always about to die, and take an age to cycle on semi.
A €10 spring saved him about €80 worth of parts that he wouldn't have needed in the first place had it been done right.

tomaswatkins

i didnt say anything about rate of fire. Some of mine i admit have beeen slow enough but ive never found swarf in the gearbox. Thats from guns ive looked at so ive seen for myself im saying no more

ronan keane

tomaswatkins wrote: »

i didnt say anything about rate of fire. Some of mine i admit have beeen slow enough but ive never found swarf in the gearbox. Thats from guns ive looked at so ive seen for myself im saying no more

Surely Thought the massive strain is a massive negative bringing us back t the conclusion that in the long run a drilled cylinder is bad

Kristov

id like to know why none of you ever started a thread when another retailer used to drill the air nozzle and it wasnt a small hole it was strait through the nozzle or the hole was streched out .
is this not worse than a small hole in right place in the cylinder its the same end result ..the customer has to pay to get this fixed .. but ive never seen any of you go to the same lenght to tarnish that retailer as you do to tarnish MIA

these AEGs were way below .7 joule because i had to replace nozzles in alot of these AEGs and when you tell somone sorry i have to fit another spring to your AEG because its now way over since i put in a new nozzle ...

"your gears are sill turning over a M150 or whatever spring, by putting in a M90 or in some cases M100 spring it would make the AEG function better and for longer".

this is not always the case if its turning over too fast you get backlash in the gears which causes gears to strip pistons to shred .

i know this because i have been told by major manufactor if the origanal spring has been removed lets say a 120 then it is reccomended to to change the gear set aswell .
gear sets ARE designed for different springs ..

as for swarf getting into your trigger contacts this is impossible and if the cylinder is drilled with a reverse taper bit the swarf or tiny strands dont go into the cylinder .. they come outward ..

and somone charging you to simply tell you what is wrong with your AEG is a deffinite ripoff..

Leftyflip

Except I've seen more stripped pistons in drilled AEGs than ones that had the spring changed. That and the majority of the time, I've seen swarf inside the cylinder, mashed into the cylinder head or into the o-ring usually.

Kristov

Leftyflip wrote: »

Except I've seen more stripped pistons in drilled AEGs than ones that had the spring changed. That and the majority of the time, I've seen swarf inside the cylinder, mashed into the cylinder head or into the o-ring usually.

the main cause for stripped piston is too much hop or jammed bb in the barrel ..
nothing to do with small hole in the cylinder ..
think about it ...
bb goes into hop gets jammed for whatever reason user keeps pulling trigger to clear it and yet another bb gets stuck behind it cylinder becomes AIRLOCKED piston cant go forward so those metal gears designed to turn over 120/130 springs are going to shred that plastic/nylon/cheese/poly whatever piston ..

Puding

i know this because i have been told by major manufactor if the origanal spring has been removed lets say a 120 then it is reccomended to to change the gear set aswell .

yes the 400fps kwa m4s mainly, 1j version are available

drilling a hole in a cylinder in what is meant to be a finely tuned 11.1v lipo ready aeg from my experience normally does not end well

reality is it is easier to get the >1j kwas than the 1j versions

no company that spends the time tuning an aeg like they have is going to say that just drilling a hole in the cylinder is a good idea

Puding

Kristov wrote: »

the main cause for stripped piston is too much hop or jammed bb in the barrel ..
nothing to do with small hole in the cylinder ..
think about it ...
bb goes into hop gets jammed for whatever reason user keeps pulling trigger to clear it and yet another bb gets stuck behind it cylinder becomes AIRLOCKED piston cant go forward so those metal gears designed to turn over 120/130 springs are going to shred that plastic/nylon/cheese/poly whatever piston ..

from all my time working on aegs never seen an aeg spring a piston because of this, but could just be me

main cause of stripping from my experiance is more angle of engagement and premature engagement when the gears engage the piston before it is fully at rest