The pope's millions

cloptrop

Its a widely believed thing here that the catholic church are a cult that are in it for the money .
Im just wondering if the pope is the boss of the church what does he do with all this money . You never see him out in crystal or doing cocaine with Gerry Ryan over the most expensive steak in a fancy hotel lobby .
He doesnt give his money to his family when he dies as far as I know.
Is there a shady man behind the whole thing running amok with the billions.
I honestly dont think il papa is swindling all this money so he can buy a fancier tabernacle for his alter . Does anyone know where its all going?

Biggins

cloptrop wrote: »

Its a widely believed thing here that the catholic church are a cult that are in it for the money .
Im just wondering if the pope is the boss of the church what does he do with all this money . You never see him out in crystal or doing cocaine with Gerry Ryan over the most expensive steak in a fancy hotel lobby .
He doesnt give his money to his family when he dies as far as I know.
Is there a shady man behind the whole thing running amok with the billions.
I honestly dont think il papa is swindling all this money so he can buy a fancier tabernacle for his alter . Does anyone know where its all going?

Banco Ambrossiano MK2.
(Otherwise known as "Institute for Works of Religion")

El Weirdo

They use it to pay compensation to all the children that... no... wait...

Seachmall

The Pope doesn't actually own any of it, the Church does.

It's those types of technicalities that'll get you into heaven apparently.

mikom

cloptrop wrote: »

Is there a shady man behind the whole thing running amok with the billions.
Does anyone know where its all going?

Spider guardian.

rgmmg

cloptrop wrote: »

Its a widely believed thing here that the catholic church are a cult that are in it for the money .
Im just wondering if the pope is the boss of the church what does he do with all this money . You never see him out in crystal or doing cocaine with Gerry Ryan over the most expensive steak in a fancy hotel lobby .
He doesnt give his money to his family when he dies as far as I know.
Is there a shady man behind the whole thing running amok with the billions.
I honestly dont think il papa is swindling all this money so he can buy a fancier tabernacle for his alter . Does anyone know where its all going?

"Tell No One Laddie" in the 1530 at Fairyhouse

ScumLord

It's Gods money, god tells the pope what to do with it and what god really likes is stained glass. You can't get it in heaven so he wants it in all his buildings on earth.

cloptrop

Holybread , he just can get enough of it with peanut butter.

chickendinner

Have you not been to the Vatican.
It costs millions to upkeep it.
Mind you they are making that on tourists

Check out nero`s bathtub
http://www.flickr.com/photos/meghanbeaton/3087304315/

Can you imagine the orgies that went on in that bad boy

the groutch

Someone been watching The Borgias too much?

Doc Ruby

Dude owns his own private country, he may smoke bricks of cash to wind down after a hard day's poping for all we know.

Fago!

He uses the money like anyone else would if they had billions of quid..... to buy hundreds of millions of wham bars.

Biggins

Apparently just in the USA alone (IF you can trust a bit what you find on the net!)...

The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

EDIT: "The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

EDIT: "The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars."

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_10.asp
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081119062114AAkwhdI

Some interesting (or maybe not!) random info about the Vatican: http://www.junkworthknowing.com/popculture/surprising_facts_about_the_vatican

the groutch

and yet we're the ones paying for their child abusing.
the sooner someone sues the pope/vatican the better.

cloptrop

Biggins wrote: »

Apparently just in the USA alone (IF you can trust a bit what you find on the net!)...


http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_10.asp
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081119062114AAkwhdI

Some interesting (or maybe not!) random info about the Vatican: http://www.junkworthknowing.com/popculture/surprising_facts_about_the_vatican

So they have a lot of money and they invest it to make it more, thats no big deal , but people think its a cult , if it was a cult surely the few at the top would be squandering this money instead of investing it in oil and dying and leaving it for the next pope.

I Heart Internet

EDIT: The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe.

And people believe this? Believe that the catholic church is the greater (sic) possessor of material riches in the world? More than any government or state???

mikom

Thread disappoints.
I thought this was about a sequel to "Brewsters millions"

ScumLord

I Heart Internet wrote: »

And people believe this? Believe that the catholic church is the greater (sic) possessor of material riches in the world? More than any government or state???

Why wouldn't people believe it, the church has been hoarding wealth for more than a thousand years.

Dyr

We are ALL gods money

Anyone

cloptrop wrote: »

Its a widely believed thing here that the catholic church are a cult that are in it for the money .

What? Where is "here" exactly?

cloptrop

mikom wrote: »

Thread disappoints.
I thought this was about a sequel to "Brewsters millions"

That would be the best religion ever , the best catholic gets elected and has to spend all the pope money in a year or he goes to hell.

Fago!

cloptrop wrote: »

So they have a lot of money and they invest it to make it more, thats no big deal , but people think its a cult , if it was a cult surely the few at the top would be squandering this money instead of investing it in oil and dying and leaving it for the next pope.

So technically the pope actually doesn't have much money. His lackys invest it all to make more, then it's just there for the next pope who will do the same and leave it to the next pope. He never actually gets to spend it. Bit of a jip if you ask me.

Standard Toaster

cloptrop wrote: »

Its a widely believed thing here that the catholic church are a cult that are in it for the money .
Im just wondering if the pope is the boss of the church what does he do with all this money . You never see him out in crystal or doing cocaine with Gerry Ryan over the most expensive steak in a fancy hotel lobby .
He doesnt give his money to his family when he dies as far as I know.
Is there a shady man behind the whole thing running amok with the billions.
I honestly dont think il papa is swindling all this money so he can buy a fancier tabernacle for his alter . Does anyone know where its all going?

I'd become a believer if he managed to pull of this feat tbh.

KeithAFC

Uses it to spread Roman Catholicism around the world. I would have thought that was obvious.

Biggins

KeithAFC wrote: »

Uses it to spread Roman Catholicism around the world. I would have thought that was obvious.

Investing to gain even further profit with interest? :pac:

dilallio

Whilst visiting Rome, an Australian tourist was filming the vatican with a new duty-free camera.
He just happened to pan across and spot the Pope having a **** in the bushes.
He zoomed in closer and, just as the Pope shot his load, he spotted the tourist filming him.
"Jesus Christ!" he groaned.
Turning to the tourist, he said, "may I buy your camera?"
"No ****ing way! I just got it duty-free." Replied the Aussie.
"I'll give you $200,000 for it!" the Pope begged.
"Really?" the tourist said. "Yeah, all right mate."
Later, a Vatican guard saw the Pope with his new toy.
"Excuse me, Your Holiness, how much did you pay for the video camera?"
"$200,000." replied the Pope.
"****!" said the guard. "Some fecker sure saw you coming!"


Allegedly

KeithAFC

Biggins wrote: »

Investing to gain even further profit with interest? :pac:

Good investment if he can get more children to become Roman Catholics. It seems to be working if the stats are anything to go by. 1 billion members around the world. Quite shocking that people would want to be associated with such a criminal organisation.

SEPT 23 1989

He also has solid gold teeth

Ellis Dee

He just gets all the gold and diamonds and other valuable stuff, puts it on a big tray and then throws it in the air. God keeps what he wants and the rest just falls back to the ground to be used whatever way the Protector of Paedophiles Everywhere sees fit. :D

Not that he need money as such, although his head is on Vatican euro coins. His meals and transport are paid for by the church, his clothing as well, and if some nice little nun drops by to give him a full body massage with happy end - I guess she won't be asking for anything other than a blessing and a rub of the relic as her reward.:):)

krudler

Its a well known fact its all kept in a big vault so the pope can swim in it, like Scrooge McDuck.

cloptrop

KeithAFC wrote: »

Good investment if he can get more children to become Roman Catholics. It seems to be working if the stats are anything to go by. 1 billion members around the world. Quite shocking that people would want to be associated with such a criminal organisation.

Or maybe they believe they have a message that needs to be followed , and the money is being used to get people on board. Seems like a fiaarly decent crowd just trying to get you into heaven.

krudler

cloptrop wrote: »

Or maybe they believe they have a message that needs to be followed , and the money is being used to get people on board. Seems like a fiaarly decent crowd just trying to get you into heaven.

you could literally buy your way into heaven at one time, despite Jesus preaching against rich men going there, the church is a business, always has been.

lividduck

cloptrop wrote: »

Or maybe they believe they have a message that needs to be followed , and the money is being used to get people on board. Seems like a fiaarly decent crowd just trying to get you into heaven.

"Decent" is not a term most people would use to describe an organization headed by a retired Nazi, which has presided over a decades long cover up of child sexual abuse and paedophilia .

I Heart Internet

ScumLord wrote: »

Why wouldn't people believe it, the church has been hoarding wealth for more than a thousand years.

Richer than Saudi? USA??

Look, I know the vatican has loads of shiny gold candlesticks, statues and art. I'm sure it also has a wedge of cash, gold, bonds and shares to keep the Holy See as a functioning state(let). And that the church around the world - in the sense that it is one church and not a collection of diocesan churches - has land and buildings, etc. But the RCC's critics always over-egg the pudding.....richer than any government or state in the world....sorry, don't belive it.

Unless, of course, the plaster statue, stained glass, relics* and wooden bench markets have gone through the roof and I've not heard about it.


*Unfortunetly the relic market in Ireland seems to be booming at the moment

cloptrop

lividduck wrote: »

"Decent" is not a term most people would use to describe an organization headed by a retired Nazi, which has presided over a decades long cover up of child sexual abuse and paedophilia .

Come on dude he was in Hitlers youth like all the kids in his area were at the time,
The sexual abuse thing was a mix of people who didnt want to marry because they were kiddy fiddlers joining the church to hide this fact and pad PR.
The catholic church was hardly made as a place for paeodos to go , it was just taken advantage of by paedos .
All positions like this attract paedos , there have been paedos in the gaurds , teachers school principals , even cleaners.
They take these jobs because it lets them get close to kids no questions asked , Id hardly blame JC on this.

I Heart Internet

Ellis Dee wrote: »

whatever way the Protector of Paedophiles Everywhere sees fit. :D

Look, look!! It's even wittier if you do it like this. :D
Not as subtle like yours though.

ScumLord

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Richer than Saudi? USA??

Look, I know the vatican has loads of shiny gold candlesticks, statues and art. I'm sure it also has a wedge of cash, gold, bonds and shares to keep the Holy See as a functioning state(let).

According to Biggins post they have holdings in the worlds biggest banks and have had for as long as the banks have been around. The Vatican has always been wealthy and powerful, they have hundreds of years head start on any of the richest organisations. If they weren't the richest then there'd be something wrong. They don't pay much in the way of taxes and have been collecting money for nothing for, as I keep pointing out, more than a thousand years.

I Heart Internet

ScumLord wrote: »

According to Biggins post they have holdings in the worlds biggest banks and have had for as long as the banks have been around. The Vatican has always been wealthy and powerful, they have hundreds of years head start on any of the richest organisations. If they weren't the richest then there'd be something wrong. They don't pay much in the way of taxes and have been collecting money for nothing for, as I keep pointing out, more than a thousand years.

Which part of Biggin's post? The bit he seems sceptical about himself (the self-internet-published book by Jack Chick) or the Yahoo Answers page? Which of those cast-iron sources do you mean?

Hey, I'm NOT pleading poverty for the RCC. It does alright :cool:. And I agree, most of the nations and organisations knocking around now weren't even in existence when the RCC was celebrating its 1,000 year birthday.

Biggins

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Richer than Saudi? USA??

Look, I know the vatican has loads of shiny gold candlesticks, statues and art. I'm sure it also has a wedge of cash, gold, bonds and shares to keep the Holy See as a functioning state(let). And that the church around the world - in the sense that it is one church and not a collection of diocesan churches - has land and buildings, etc. But the RCC's critics always over-egg the pudding.....richer than any government or state in the world....sorry, don't belive it.

Unless, of course, the plaster statue, stained glass, relics* and wooden bench markets have gone through the roof and I've not heard about it.

*Unfortunetly the relic market in Ireland seems to be booming at the moment

ScumLord wrote: »

According to Biggins post they have holdings in the worlds biggest banks and have had for as long as the banks have been around. The Vatican has always been wealthy and powerful, they have hundreds of years head start on any of the richest organisations. If they weren't the richest then there'd be something wrong. They don't pay much in the way of taxes and have been collecting money for nothing for, as I keep pointing out, more than a thousand years.

I find it totally believable that they have untold wealth.
The stuff that is already known (never mind the stuff we don't know!) where they have money saved, invested (MASSIVELY) and stored alone is absolutely massive by any scale.
Do they have more?
By god or hell, I'm sure they do.
The world has only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of their total wealth!

I Heart Internet

Biggins wrote: »

I find it totally believable that they have untold wealth.

Fair enough.

Biggins wrote: »

The stuff that is already known (never mind the stuff we don't know!) where they have money saved, invested (MASSIVELY) and stored alone is absolutely massive by any scale.

Really? By any scale? Even by the scale of soereign states?

Biggins wrote: »

Do they have more?
By god or hell, I'm sure they do.
The world has only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of their total wealth!

That's one opinion, an intriguing one but pure opinion none the less.

Biggins

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Fair enough.
Really? By any scale? Even by the scale of soereign states?
That's one opinion, an intriguing one but pure opinion none the less.

Yes, even by foreign states.

I would suggest some reading on this topic.
This one book "In Gods Name" alone would help: http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Name-Investigation-into-Murder/dp/0552132888

Unbelievable wealth!
(And when their banker, Roberto Calvi, was supposed to give evidence to this and what they were doing with it - he was murdered a few days beforehand.)

Seachmall

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Really? By any scale? Even by the scale of soereign states?

Absolutely.

Not that implausible.

I Heart Internet

Biggins wrote: »

Yes, even by foreign states.

I would suggest some reading on this topic.
This one book "In Gods Name" alone would help: http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Name-Investigation-into-Murder/dp/0552132888

Unbelievable wealth!
(And when their banker, Roberto Calvi, was supposed to give evidence to this and what they were doing with it - he was murdered a few days beforehand.)

Sorry - that was meant to be "soverign states".

I'm familiar with Roberto Calvi's story.

Doc Ruby

That Nero's bathtub alone is worth almost half a billion. And that's just one single artifact, they have tens of thousands of them. The RCC takes in a tithe directly from the Catholic population of Germany, deducted right from their wages. So:

Population of Catholics in Germany: 25 million people
Divide by say 4 to get the wage earners: 6 million people
Average annual gross German salary: €42,535
Tithe on income taxes (total income): 1% approximately
-> €2.5 billion per annum.

And that's just a very conservative estimate of one country, its probably more like twice as much from Germany. Yes I know the church says all the dioceses are individual corporations but who are ye kidding lads - these guys own their own country, there's no telling what actually happens with all the cash.

I'd guess if all the assets were liquidated, including land, you'd be looking at several trillion. That's not so unbelievable when you consider the Norwegian oil fund investments weigh in at around half a trillion euros, and they only amassed that in the last forty years.

I Heart Internet

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'd guess if all the assets were liquidated, including land, you'd be looking at several trillion. That's not so unbelievable when you consider the Norwegian oil fund investments weigh in at around half a trillion euros, and they only amassed that in the last forty years.

Remind me again why the RCC would want to liquidate itself??

To please people who hate it?

Oh, I see.

Biggins

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Sorry - that was meant to be "soverign states".

No worries.

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I'm familiar with Roberto Calvi's story.

As am I too, very much.

For those that are wondering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calvi

Doc Ruby

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Remind me again why the RCC would want to liquidate itself??

Sure, after you remind me why god needs trillions or tens of trillions of euros.

I Heart Internet

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Sure, after you remind me why god needs trillions or tens of trillions of euros.

That's silly. Why would God need money????

A church on the otherhad...especially one with the intention of existing and growing till the second coming of Christ (*looks at his watch*) needs to do more than pay the bills.

Although I don't accept the "trillions or tens of trillions of euros" bit.

Seachmall

I Heart Internet wrote: »

A church on the otherhad...especially one with the intention of existing and growing till the second coming of Christ (*looks at his watch*) needs to do more than pay the bills.

Why does the Church so?

And out of curiosity, what would you think the Church's net worth is (roughly)?

Doc Ruby

I Heart Internet wrote: »

That's silly. Why would God need money????

A church on the otherhad...especially one with the intention of existing and growing till the second coming of Christ (*looks at his watch*) needs to do more than pay the bills.

Hmm, so what you're saying is that faith alone isn't enough to spread the word of god, the word needs buckets of money behind it. Sounds like something you haven't much faith in to be honest. Money doesn't need faith.

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Although I don't accept the "trillions or tens of trillions of euros bit".

Non fungible assets in Ireland alone would be worth many many billions, you know how much city centre property the church owns outright? And they don't pay taxes on income either.

Of course if you believe a bunch of Norwegians who struck oil a few decades back can do better than the church over two thousand years, well that's your lookout. Doesn't seem very realistic to me though.

A quick point of interest, ten trillion euros is a grand and a half for every man, woman and child on earth.

Given the average size of a third world family and that most people in developed countries probably would be happy to give up their share for the poor, thats about twenty grand to every poor family in the world, which is a stone cold fortune in many places. It will get you a good house, start a business, see you through education, and a lot more. Thats ignoring issues of distribution and inflation and so on.

So basically the church is holding back enough wealth to solve world poverty. Stay classy lads.

I Heart Internet

Seachmall wrote: »

Why does the Church so?

It needs money in the bank to survive as an earthly entity.

Seachmall wrote: »

And out of curiosity, what would you think the Church's net worth is (roughly)?

That's impossible to say - I wouldn't include actual infrastructure - cos that would be like valuing the island of Ireland if it sold itself (everything) to, say, Norway. And you'll find few buyers for church buildings in a country after selling the first 50 or so (supply and demand and all that).

So I guess, if you sold what you could (spare land, shares, candlesticks) and still have the church exist, as such, maybe a few hundred billion.