Confessions of an Ex-Christian

gawker

I am writing this because I feel somewhat dishonest on boards.ie when I discuss matters of faith (and the lack thereof). You see, I once was a Christian, and a boards.ie Christian too at that. I recently had a look back at the stuff I would write on my old account and I was shocked at how silly most of the stuff I said was. I could not believe how ignorant I was and how odd my worldview was - it was like reading the words of another person. I went by the username "gosimeon" and was known to post some pretty silly stuff over on the Christianity board. Case in point, here is my views on the genocide of the old testament whilst in debate with Zombrex:

I understand your points completely, I often feel that the God of the OT seems incompatible with Jesus Christ.

But a historical and cultural context clears things up a lot. How could a loving God command the destruction of all those innocent people? The argument sounds good, but it is utterly false. The unstated assumption is that the people who God ordered destroyed were morally equivalent to the Jews, who replaced them. However, this is what the Bible says about the people who were destroyed:

"It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Deuteronomy 9:5)

These people, the ancient tribes, had pretty awful practices, including burning their own children to death as a sacrafice to gods:

"You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. (Deuteronomy 12:31)

God is both loving and righteous. Those that say He is righteous to a fault should also contemplate then that he is loving to a fault. He, according to the NT, offers the forgiveness off our sins in return of faith in him.

The cultural context dictates that these tribes were unruly and had some awful practices. They would most certainly not have had open minds to Gods plan.

I agree that the OT "version" of God can seem too harsh at times. However, throughout the OT, God is said to be “merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth” (Exodus 34:6; Numbers 14:18; Deuteronomy 4:31; Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 86:5; Psalm 86:15; Psalm 108:4; Psalm 145:8; Joel 2:13). He is slow to anger, we are told. It seems that the pagan tribes pushed this patience to the limits. Their survival might well have been detrimental to the survival and growth of Judaism and Christianity. Perhaps in the OT cases, the ends did justify the means as:
-Gods actions showed sinfulness in not tolerated
-Gods actions showed he was real, and powerful
-Gods actions paved the way for the birth of Judaism and Christianity

As that post illustrated, I was stuck in a right cycle of bollixology at the time. I was struggling alot in my youth and was enticed to an evangelical church who offered a great social setting and a sense of community I had not experienced before. Without really knowing when my mind was "won over" by them, I ended up thinking of the Bible as the only reference point I needed. As the above quote shows, thinking outside of the Bible became something foreign to me.

My friends and family showed concern and saw this church as a bit of a cult, but I continued to get more involved with the church. Before I knew it, my book shelf was the proud home of books explaining away all my doubts: intelligent design apologetics, daily devotionals, books sold to me through a brochure the church would distribute every month or so. I remember debating God with my friends and using the same sort of straw man arguments you can still see being used online today. "Evidence of God? The whole universe is all the evidence I need!"

I went on my J1 in 2009 and that was when I realized what I had gotten myself into. The church I was a member of models itself around the large evangelical churches of America, and visiting those churches made me realize the fakeness of it all. It all seemed to be about money and was anti-intellectual. There was no room for debate and no room for moderation. It was all black and white, heaven and hell, saved and unsaved. I guess that is what attracted me to Christianity, the absolute nature of it. I realized my church at home was much the same, just on a smaller scale. There was always a notion floating around my mind that it was BS though, that I was falling for something I shouldn't be. It began to grow that summer.

I can still remember reading the Bible and having so many doubts, trying to justify moral wrongs within it and massive contradictions. Eventually I realized I had to cop on and get out of the faith before I was in too deep. I was always proud to be a critical thinker who questioned things but was slowly starting to just accept things the Bible/preachers said at face value. I was struggling massively with my sexuality. I had told me pastor about being gay and how I did not think I could "fix" it, and he had encouraged me to seek help of Christian counsellors. That same week at church service, he acknowledged people in his congregation "were struggling with the illness of homosexuality." A man who was close to the pastor came over during worship and, speaking in tongues, put his hand on my head and prayed over me. I later found out he was praying for me to be "healed".

The final nail in the coffin was when I started losing friends. I had become judgemental towards them and scoffed at their "lifestyle". I had a devout Catholic friend who I would often engage in debate about how the Catholic Church got scripture wrong, hoping I could help him become "saved." As once close friends started to find me hard to be around I realized deep down that I was being an idiot, basically. I realized I had put my mind in a place that was based on superstition, on nonsense, and that I was losing important and real things because of that: critical thinking, relationships, my own dignity.

I'm glad to say I am religion-free for around 4 years now. I got out of the "Biblically based reality" and am so glad I did so. I worked hard to regain the friends I had shunned and to become comfortable with myself in a real way. I felt free enough to think for myself again and to question things. I researched evolution and topics like humanist ethics without feeling like I was looking at something morally wrong, and I have never looked back.

Today, I am a baby-eating atheist. How times change.

Oranage2

Nice read and just out of interest what age where you when you started to not believe?

gawker

Oranage2 wrote: »

Nice read and just out of interest what age where you when you started to not believe?

Thanks! I was brought up Catholic but never really believed that past childhood. I stopped believing in the evangelical stuff at the age of 19.

Sarky

Nice one.

Zombrex

gawker wrote: »

Case in point, here is my views on the genocide of the old testament whilst in debate with Zombrex:

Ah that takes me back. The old Creationism thread. 2007, when I was a wide eyed young pup, not the bitter cynical old man you see before you.

Congrats on eventually escaping the logic black hole that is Christianity. I take full credit for your conversion btw :P

Out of curiosity back then did you know what you were arguing didn't make much sense. I think we have all argued things we didn't really believe just cause we want to win an argument on Boards. How much of this genuinely made sense to you at the time. I often wonder that with some of the Christian posters we still debate with, I have to stop sometimes and ask myself does this guy really believe what he is writing, or is he just trying to win.

gawker

Zombrex wrote: »

... I take full credit for your conversion btw :P

Out of curiosity back then did you know what you were arguing didn't make much sense.....

Look what you did to me! :eek:

I guess that is a hard question to answer. I did believe what I was saying, but also saw it did not match with reality or even (in the case of what I wrote about genocide) with my own morals. So there is a big cognitive dissonance and it probably made me get even more impassioned about my viewpoint, so as I could avoid the reality I was talking rubbish.

It's also important to remember how much religious people have invested in their faith. For me it was perhaps just a matter of pride and hope, but some people have built their family and whole life around their belief in a certain deity. To let you win is to prove them (or me at the time) wrong and bring into question everything they do. I knew I could not win, but it was certainly possible to not allow you to clearly win by throwing up straw-man arguments or using a different reference point. So not losing such debates is a matter or pride and protecting something I thought was more important to me than understanding an unbiased reality.

Plus, using the Bible as your sole frame of reference allows you to protect your ideas because non-Biblical sources are unreliable. What the Bible says trumps all. If something in reality clashed with the Bible I would always try my best to side with the Bible, no matter how dumb it might have made me look.

joseph brand

@OP. You're FREE to watch some excellent videos on evolution and astrophysics now.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to put your post in the christianity forum, as well? :pac:

swiftblade

joseph brand wrote: »

@OP. You're FREE to watch some excellent videos on evolution and astrophysics now.

You're also free to watch, you know...those other videos on the internet.

Not easy to do what you did OP. Most people get stuck in the cycle and never get out. Congratz.

Tomk1

gawker, I use to have a youtube channel deconversionhub, not sure if it's still there as forgot about it and never verified the account.

Many people find it liberating to make a vid about what they believed and the way they acted, and then waking up from a long dreamlike state, some have said that they pretended to still believe because of family/partner. I remember one fellow were his wife actually left him, he met someone else after.

I know a few people, I can see struggling with their faith, but they just can't take that final step, whether it's out of fear, or having to acknowledge not only that they're been wrong, but all the energy and time put into the faith was pretty much for nothing. So often it takes real bravery to say 'life's far too short to waste on BS-religion'

Well done on eventually taking the Red-pill.

Manach

As a member of the blue pill bridge, I'm sorry to see the OP go. Perhaps after reading through other books outside the Bible, pursuing other studies, approaching how to reckon the meaning of life (or not) in a neutral way embracing neither belief or unbelief then the OP might re-consider (or not).
(Back to watching those other videos, of the great one, Mr. Clarkson)

Doc Farrell

joseph brand wrote: »

@OP. You're FREE to watch some excellent videos on evolution and astrophysics now.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to put your post in the christianity forum, as well? :pac:

Sure why not? But avoid the two above subjects as a Catholic might bring up the names Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and George Lemaitre.

FouxDaFaFa

Interesting post. It made me sad to read about you losing friends, I'm glad things are better between you and them now. Can I ask, how did you view people of other religions and atheists back then?

Those mega-churches in the States are such huge business. It's fascinating and a little scary.

gawker

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Can I ask, how did you view people of other religions and atheists back then?
.

Hey. It is hard to explain, but having a firm belief everybody but those who are "born again" are going to end up in hell does make you somewhat condescending and distanced from non-believers. Having said that, it was all about being saved rather than what happened to other people, so generally you just did your best (and failed) to convert those around you and eventually your only friends are your church friends.