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New Plans for Childrens Hospital on Coombe site

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  • Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭ Telchak


    Were the board of the Coombe sitting on this until the Mater was refused permission, or has this idea only come about in the last few days?

    Seems like a great idea, well thoutht out.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Doesn't co-locate with an acute hospital
    Access is poorer than any other suggested site to date
    Coombe's buildings are in a wreck so even more funding would likely be required to bring this up to spec
    Coombe was to relocate to the vacant space in Tallaght caused by the NCH moving to the Mater!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,283 ✭✭✭ irishguy


    If it can be built on the Mater site at the current size (the best plan IMO) then that should be done if not I would rather have it on a site that could have a research unit. A cut down version of the Mater plan would be silly (it would loose the research unit). I really dont see why ABP are trying to promote urban sprawl citys should be highrise I dont want 3 bed semis and 4 story buildings stretching across the width of Leinster with poor infrastructure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭ Joko


    irishguy wrote: »
    If it can be built on the Mater site at the current size (the best plan IMO) then that should be done if not I would rather have it on a site that could have a research unit. A cut down version of the Mater plan would be silly (it would loose the research unit). I really dont see why ABP are trying to promote urban sprawl citys should be highrise I dont want 3 bed semis and 4 story buildings stretching across the width of Leinster with poor infrastructure.

    It is silly big.

    Hospital1.jpg

    In the planned Mater hospital each child will be in a single room to themselves. That is ridiculous and a complete waste of resources.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Joko wrote: »
    In the planned Mater hospital each child will be in a single room to themselves. That is ridiculous and a complete waste of resources.

    No, its absolutely and utterly essential for infection control.

    Any new childrens hospital built in a first world country will be single rooms.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,832 ✭✭✭ markpb


    Joko wrote: »
    It is silly big.

    Oh noes, I can see a tall building in the city centre! Whatever will we do!?!

    Is this really, genuinely a concern? If it was blocking the view of Custom House (like the Dart bridge does) I could see the problem. If it involved demolishing a row of Georgian houses (like ESB HQ), I could see the problem. If you could even see it poking out over Trinity (like the building behind Dublin Castle), I could agree with those concerns. But it's not any of those things - it's a tall building in a nondescript part of the city centre. What on earth is the problem architecturally? (I do understand peoples other concerns.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭ Joko


    markpb wrote: »
    Oh noes, I can see a tall building in the city centre! Whatever will we do!?!

    Is this really, genuinely a concern? If it was blocking the view of Custom House (like the Dart bridge does) I could see the problem but it's not. If it involved demolishing a row of Georgian houses (like ESB HQ), I could see the problem but again, it's not. Indeed, if you could see it poking out over Trinity (like the building that you can see from inside Dublin Castle), I could agree with those concerns. But it's not any of those things - it's a tall building in a nondescript part of the city centre.

    You can see it towering over the main street in Ireland. It looks stupid big and disproportionate. Planning laws should be conservative and we should not bend them for this elephant.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Joko wrote: »
    You can see it towering over the main street in Ireland. It looks stupid big and disproportionate. Planning laws should be conservative and we should not bend them for this elephant.

    Towering over O'Connell Street like, oh, The Spire?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,116 starviewadams


    I think it looks fine in the picture that's linked above,certainly better then the stupidly big piece of ugly metal that's sticking up out of Ireland's main street.I find it amazing that out of all the archetectural abominations in Dublin(Central Bank,ESB HQ,Civic Offices,New building beside Dublin Castle etc)people are moaning about and delaying the construction of an urgently needed national childrens hospital.

    Building it at The Coombe is pointless as it needs to be co-located with an acute hospital.Only options are to build it at St.James(and start the designing,planning process all over again)or build it where it should be built,at The Mater.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,832 ✭✭✭ markpb


    Joko wrote: »
    Planning laws should be conservative

    Protecting specific buildings and vistas, yes. But generally conservative - why on earth?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    MYOB wrote: »
    No, its absolutely and utterly essential for infection control.

    Any new childrens hospital built in a first world country will be single rooms.

    Eh, thats because a parent stays in the room every night in a Childrens Hospital with their child if infection control protocol permits. This it normally does. Single rooms isolate family units more than diseases.

    I am really not sure about the Coombe site even though the current one is pretty ancient (but near St James').

    Out to the M50 I reckon...bring the Coombe out there and all seeing as the Rotunda and Holles St will be left behind in central Dublin.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Eh, thats because a parent stays in the room every night in a Childrens Hospital with their child if infection control protocol permits. This it normally does. Single rooms isolate family units more than diseases.

    Its still for infection control whether or not the parents are there. The parents being there is no different to the kids being at home.

    There were paediatric hospitals built with parent side-beds but on wards previously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 BrianD


    tempura wrote: »
    I think its an excellent site. Live near to it, is currently a complete waste of space. Has really good access to all parts of Dublin City and links to M50 etc.

    Any thoughts ?


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/overseas-investors-want-to-fund-childrens-hospital-on-coombe-site-3038548.html

    No better or worse than the Mater for transport and parking.

    Where does the Coombe go when it's being built? I take it that it will have to be levelled?


  • Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭ Telchak


    MYOB wrote:
    Doesn't co-locate with an acute hospital

    Half a kilometer from James's. A lot better than most options.
    MYOB wrote:
    Coombe was to relocate to the vacant space in Tallaght caused by the NCH moving to the Mater!

    No reason this plan would affect that plan
    BrianD wrote:
    No better or worse than the Mater for transport and parking.

    Where does the Coombe go when it's being built? I take it that it will have to be levelled?

    New parking will be provided on site, so I don't really see how parking is an issue. Maybe I'm missing something?

    Definitely think it's better than the Mater for traffic! I've passed by the Coombe on the bus almost every weekday for the last couple of years, at wide ranging times of day. The area is never empty of cars, but I can't recall ever seeing crazy gridlock. As long as everyone doesn't approach it through Crumlin, the local roads should be able to take the extra cars. The N4 isn't a million miles away.

    This building is proposed beside the Coombe, not on top of it. The renders show both buildings connected when the new one is finished.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Eh, thats because a parent stays in the room every night in a Childrens Hospital with their child if infection control protocol permits. This it normally does. Single rooms isolate family units more than diseases.

    I am really not sure about the Coombe site even though the current one is pretty ancient (but near St James').

    Out to the M50 I reckon...bring the Coombe out there and all seeing as the Rotunda and Holles St will be left behind in central Dublin.

    According to the OH the plan was/is to move Holles Street to St. Vincents site, they've been talking bout it for the last 10 years or so.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    There are only 4 major maternity/midwifery training hospitals in the state. Holles/Rotunda/Coombe...and Galway. 3 are in Central Dublin where only one is really required.

    Its only 25 years since pretty well everything in Dublin was inside the canals bar Vincents.

    The Beaumont was Jervis Street and Tallaght was the Meath Hospital back then. High time we extracted a top class maternity and neonatal operation from the centre I should think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,832 ✭✭✭ markpb


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    High time we extracted a top class maternity and neonatal operation from the centre I should think.

    Why?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    markpb wrote: »
    Why?

    Well Holles street doesn't need to be in it's current location. Which is smack in the middle of officeland/governmental quarter in Dublin 2. Given the catchment area it covers it makes more sense co-locating it with St. Vincents. Which of course is what's on the drawing boards anyways. Unfortunately no doubt the crash in property value of the site will push that move out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭ Tragedy


    MYOB wrote: »
    No, its absolutely and utterly essential for infection control.
    No it isn't, dedicated isolation units have proven to be far more effective at controlling the spread of MRSA than changing to single rooms (or at least, this has been the experience in the UK and USA). A single room /=/ an isolation room.
    Any new childrens hospital built in a first world country will be single rooms.
    Indeed, but this is due to a large number of factors with infection control being but one. Studies on the benefits and disadvantages of single room design are generally positive, but always with the caveat that the evidence is mainly empirical and retrospective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭ TrixIrl


    I think the Coombe site sounds great - the positive reasons about the Mater Site apply to this also:

    *Co-Location to an Acute Adult Hospital - It would be very close to St James & not a huge distance from Tallaght/Mater etc. The article also says the new building would include an adult hospital
    *Transport - Space for 1000 car parking spaces (as many as the Mater) and very close to the Red Line Luas with several bus routes running right past the front door. Very easy to access from M50

    But what makes it the better option imho is:
    *Overseas funding available immediately on a 25 yr lease with the option to buy it back then - surely a good thing in these recessionary times
    *Co-location with a maternity Unit means that pre-natal and neo-natal consultants are close at hand
    *Planning - Its a 20.5 acre site which means lower height so An Bord Pleanala should be happy!

    Just my 2 cents, and it is strange we've heard nothing about it till now but I definitely think it deserves consideration...


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Tragedy wrote: »
    No it isn't, dedicated isolation units have proven to be far more effective at controlling the spread of MRSA than changing to single rooms (or at least, this has been the experience in the UK and USA). A single room /=/ an isolation room.

    I'm well aware of what an isolation room is. I'm also, however, aware that having sufficient numbers of them and wards leads to a huge duplication of facilities.
    Telchak wrote: »
    No reason this plan would affect that plan

    It rather would...
    Telchak wrote: »
    This building is proposed beside the Coombe, not on top of it. The renders show both buildings connected when the new one is finished.

    Seeing as you seem to expect the Coombe to stay there. How, pray tell, can a hospital be in two places at once?

    Building it beside the Coombe only for the Coombe to move means that any tiny advantages it had due to being adjacent to a maternity/infants hospital are gone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭ Tragedy


    MYOB wrote: »
    I'm well aware of what an isolation room is. I'm also, however, aware that having sufficient numbers of them and wards leads to a huge duplication of facilities.
    You don't seem to be aware of what one is as you seem to believe that a single room = an isolation unit. It isn't and you don't know what they are. Do you ever actually post from an informed viewpoint or do you just throw out whatever enters your head and hope no-one who actually knows something about the subject will respond?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Tragedy wrote: »
    You don't seem to be aware of what one is as you seem to believe that a single room = an isolation unit. It isn't and you don't know what they are. Do you ever actually post from an informed viewpoint or do you just throw out whatever enters your head and hope no-one who actually knows something about the subject will respond?

    Do you do anything else on here other than try to attack my posts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭ Telchak


    MYOB wrote:
    Seeing as you seem to expect the Coombe to stay there. How, pray tell, can a hospital be in two places at once?

    My point was that building this will still free up space in Tallaght upon its completion, the Maternity hospital can stay or move thereafter. Building the hospital at the Coombe won't have any different an affect on that situation than at the building at the Mater.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,654 ✭✭✭ trellheim


    Knock Teresa's Gardens and it would make a little bit of sense, Still think it's friggin nuts putting this anywhere but on the M50


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    The image posted upthread fails to take into account the hill/multistory development granted permission for the Cinema complex the corpo cpo'd of the owner and argued the original owner didn't have the ability to develop it properly.....
    Which would block the view of the children's hospital.


    All the people advocating building a hospital on the m50, how do you provide good public transport to this?
    Or do families without cars not really matter?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    It would likely be beside the Luas.....whaddaya want, a TGV??


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Amirani


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It would likely be beside the Luas.....whaddaya want, a TGV??

    Numerous buses and potentially a future metro also. Why not co-locate with either Tallaght or Beaumont?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    either woul be fine but I think a colo with a Maternity woul be better.

    I'll raise you a Coombe/Kiddies/Tallaght or a Beaumont/Rotunda/Kiddies so!

    assuming they have the space in Beaumont and Tallaght that is.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Neither has space that is instantly available. Beaumont likely doesn't have it at all.

    Blanchardstown does but the entire hospital there needs replacing and it was going to be downgraded anyway. Ditto Loughlinstown, add to that the the hospital is TINY.


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