NIB to start charging for *all* their current accounts

byrnefm

Hi,

I received a letter from NIB yesterday which mentions that it "rewards you for your loyalty to our bank". In the same letter, they mention that they're "simplifying our range of products" which turns out to mean that they're getting rid of free banking. For the Easy package, the closest equivalent now is the Easy Plus, where they're going to charge you €18.75 / qtr! For it they give a slight reduction on variable rate mortgages but if you're on a fixed / tracker, you're out of luck. They also will have a €5 / qtr basic account but EVERY transaction to the account will be charged.

Doesn't seem to be much of a reward for "loyalty" to me!

Solair

I'm getting the impression that they don't want current accounts anymore.

dublin daz

Its basically An Post - no banking in branch. They now closed cheque lodgments and credit card cheque payments.

homer911

I'll wait for the letter, but it looks like I'm in search of a new bank..

I have a custody account with them as well, and a savings account, and my wife has a current account. I'm paying for a custody account already - that had been free previously!

Its ridiculous as bank's already make good money out of current accounts without charging - the money made on not paying interest versus borrowing from the ECB..

Not impressed, although could have seen this coming once they got out of cash and now cheque lodgements

homer911

Solair wrote: »

I'm getting the impression that they don't want current accounts anymore.

Makes me wonder if they want a branch network any more? Their new head of retail came from ACC Bank where he closed down most the branches there..

byrnefm

dublin daz wrote: »

Its basically An Post - no banking in branch. They now closed cheque lodgments and credit card cheque payments.

I know .. should it not be even cheaper for them now since they don't have to run many physical bank branches any more?

It's almost become a virtual bank at this stage...

JTMan

NIB clearly have a step-by-step wind down strategy.

1) Close some branches - Done.
2) Remove cash baking - Done.
3) Remove cheques - In progress.
4) Remove free current accounts - In progress.

Next obvious steps:

5) Close all branches. Go online only for retail customers.
6) Run down mortgage book over time, lesser need for deposits, exit Ireland in 5-10 years.

NIB have no longer term future in Ireland.

almalahide

Very Odd, Agree with Fungus, why don't they be honest about it and close like Halifax? If I was an NIB customer I would go anyway due to what they are offering now..

JTMan

almalahide wrote: »

Very Odd, Agree with Fungus, why don't they be honest about it and close like Halifax? If I was an NIB customer I would go anyway due to what they are offering now..

You can go with the sudden option like BoSI/Halifax or you can do it over time.

ACCBank, NIB and Leeds Building Society Ireland are all clearly in wind down mode over a period of years.

It is not always possible to do a sudden wind-down unless you have a rich parent to pay back deposit holders.

homer911

Fungus wrote: »

It is not always possible to do a sudden wind-down unless you have a rich parent to pay back deposit holders.

Its not always wise to do a sudden wind down unless you want to walk away from half your assets..

Leslie91

I got the same letter and have been fortunate to have enjoyed free banking with them for years.

Anybody know what options are out there to move?. Do any of the others have a better deal?.

JTMan

Leslie91 wrote: »

Anybody know what options are out there to move?. Do any of the others have a better deal?.

Best buys for current accounts here.

Currently Ulster Bank still offer free current accounts.

Anatom

Ulster are getting rid of free banking too, very shortly apparently. It was in the Sunday Times (and I think the Indo) a couple of weeks ago...

meemeep

I'm disgusted. I rang them because I couldn't believe my eyes - 25c per laser card transactions - I'd be skint!! I don't think I can close the current account as I pay my mortgage from it, and I've a nice tracker thank you. But I'll send back my laser card. We also bank with the AIB so I'll have to see if we can get transaction free banking with them somehow. NIB will lose my deposit accounts also now - I've been recommending them for years - NO MORE!

Loyalty doesn't exist, neither does rewarding savers. You seem to be better off if you owe loads of money in this country - you can negotiate, and get loans written off. But if you are a saver - thanks very much -we'll screw you even more.

I've just rung Ulster bank and they say they have no plans to introduce fees - their current account is free. See Here:
http://ulsterbank.ie/roi/personal/daily-banking/current-accounts/standard-accounts.ashx

So if I can't get free banking with AIB looks like we'll me moving to Ulster.

aw

I don't have a problem with the fees really, their other two current account options which you can switch to are good value.

Never really understood why banks offered free fees anyway.
If you want the service, you pay for it, that's fair enough.

However, the new cheque arrangment will be a disaster. Obviously they don't want cheques and are trying to stamp out their use (I do agree they are archaic) but you have to have an NIB lodgement book to use the post office...
So what do you do if you don't have the book, you might ask... Good question. Not alot you can do other than call their Customer Service number and wait 5 to 10 days for a damn lodgement book to then lodge your cheque.

dublin daz

aw wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the fees really, their other two current account options which you can switch to are good value.

Never really understood why banks offered free fees anyway.
If you want the service, you pay for it, that's fair enough.

However, the new cheque arrangment will be a disaster. Obviously they don't want cheques and are trying to stamp out their use (I do agree they are archaic) but you have to have an NIB lodgement book to use the post office...
So what do you do if you don't have the book, you might ask... Good question. Not alot you can do other than call their Customer Service number and wait 5 to 10 days for a damn lodgement book to then lodge your cheque.

You can also use your card to lodge and withdraw in the Post Office.

The other lowest fee-accont is €75.00 annually.

PS For cheque lodgments you need a lodgment bag from your local branch or call College Green contact centre.

aw

dublin daz wrote: »

You can also use your card to lodge and withdraw in the Post Office.

The other lowest fee-accont is €75.00 annually.

PS For cheque lodgments you need a lodgment bag from your local branch or call College Green contact centre.

You are right, forgot to mention that you can lodge cash using your Laser or Credit card.
You can't withdraw cash in the Post Office though, just through atms.

The €75 account is the one I have. Easy Plus it's called.

homer911

Still haven't got a letter...

dublin daz

aw wrote: »

You are right, forgot to mention that you can lodge cash using your Laser or Credit card.
You can't withdraw cash in the Post Office though, just through atms.

The €75 account is the one I have. Easy Plus it's called.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know you could lodge to the credit card.

I've the easy plus too and mastercard. I also had a custody acc but moved when they wouldn't waive the €40 - 75 was enough + 30 Gvt duty!

Cheers.

homer911

dublin daz wrote: »

I also had a custody acc but moved when they wouldn't waive the €40 - 75 was enough + 30 Gvt duty!

Can I ask who you moved your custody account to?

Skopzz

I just emptied my bank account and drained my savings account because I can access my cash anytime without having to pay any ATM levy or face a broken ATM. Wouldn't you rather have your cash safe than invest in a troubled bank?

datk

I haven't got my letter yet and I'm curious about how much work I have on my hands!!

I've got (for now) a "Free Bank" account, savings account, esaver account and credit card with NIB. I don't pay any fees on the savings accounts, does anyone know if you can keep savings accounts and credit cards going if you close the current account? Or do I have to look to change ALL of my banking arrangements?

JTMan

According to the Sunday Times, everybody, letter or no letter, is getting moved to fee paying accounts with NIB regardless of the old account type that you had.

dublin daz

homer911 wrote: »

Can I ask who you moved your custody account to?

Sorry hadn't see this. I moved to Goodbody - if you have AIB you can pretty much do what a NIB customer could do.

I didn't have that many share and have subsequently sold and closed the account. But if you have a good few you can get them transferred to a share certificate and there will be no admin fees - but they wont be tradable - well not as easy as if they were in some online account.

If I had of had more money involved I would have done the certificate option. But it was / is around £90 per line so depending on how many stocks you hold may be an option.

Say you have AIB and BOI shares that 2 x the cert fee (about 90 GBP).

dublin daz

Fungus wrote: »

According to the Sunday Times, everybody, letter or no letter, is getting moved to fee paying accounts with NIB regardless of the old account type that you had.

Everyone on a Danske plan - i.e. anyone who opened an account after April 2006.

The "freebank" remains free for as long as you keep it. If you convert to a new "Danske" plan you changed the T+C

meemeep

dublin daz wrote: »

Everyone on a Danske plan - i.e. anyone who opened an account after April 2006.

The "freebank" remains free for as long as you keep it. If you convert to a new "Danske" plan you changed the T+C

They didn't say that when I rang them. I've been with them for a lot longer than that, and ALL accounts are changing according to their help desk

Leslie91

meemeep wrote: »

They didn't say that when I rang them. I've been with them for a lot longer than that, and ALL accounts are changing according to their help desk

Same here. Been with them over 20 years right back to Northern Bank Ireland days and my account will no longer be free banking come May.

Seriously looking at the Ulster Bank now.

dublin daz

meemeep wrote: »

They didn't say that when I rang them. I've been with them for a lot longer than that, and ALL accounts are changing according to their help desk

Sorry the branch told me different, but I have easy plus anyway and pay for it now so I suppose i was just fobbed off.

Leslie91 wrote: »

Same here. Been with them over 20 years right back to Northern Bank Ireland days and my account will no longer be free banking come May.

Seriously looking at the Ulster Bank now.

Hold off with Ulster before checking if they are introducing charges. I seen on another message board they are looking at introducing them soon.

Just check that / ask before committing to a big switch over.

JTMan

dublin daz wrote: »

Hold off with Ulster before checking if they are introducing charges. I seen on another message board they are looking at introducing them soon.

Just check that / ask before committing to a big switch over.

Ulster won't tell you if they are about to introduce charges.

Even if they are about to introduce them, the new chargers might only apply for new customers. Maybe.

homer911

I still havent received a letter and my account terms still say my account is a "Freebank" account, even though this account type is no longer available per their website. It looks like I've escaped the charges as per this document: http://www.nationalirishbank.ie/PDF/Clear_and_simple_fees_and_charges.pdf

(Page 9)

datk

homer911 wrote: »

I still havent received a letter and my account terms still say my account is a "Freebank" account, even though this account type is no longer available per their website. It looks like I've escaped the charges as per this document: http://www.nationalirishbank.ie/PDF/Clear_and_simple_fees_and_charges.pdf

(Page 9)

I don't think we've escaped yet, I haven't received my letter either so I rang the bank last week and they said they're going through people in 'batches', I asked when all the letters would be out as May had been mentioned but was told that different people had different effective dates. I didn't give my name just in case they were going to decide to skip me!!!

homer911

Confirmed today in a letter to my wife, haven't got mine yet but it was clear that the Freebank Current account is gone - will have to look into alternatives because they would even charge both of us for transferring money between our accounts in the same branch!

earlyapex

What if you pay your mortgage with them from a free (easy) current account you were forced to open with them when you switched your mortgage to NIB?

Are they then breaching the terms agreed between us for the mortgage?

Can I now choose to close the NIB current account and pay the mortgage through a current account in another bank?

They haven't mentioned this arrangement or any odd mortgage arrangement like this in their letter I got today.

Edit: I found this on their website:

I only use my account to pay my mortgage/personal loan. Will I still move to 24/7 ?
In this instance your account will migrate to a similar non-fee paying account. If however, you have a chequebook or card attached to your account you will move to 24/7.

Seems I will be ok then, but I will call them tomorrow anyway.

homer911

Still waiting to hear, I almost feel deprived!

aw

For those of you with mortgages, be very careful.

It is in the Terms and Conditions of some of the ECB Trackers and other low rate mortgages that you MUST have a package account, ie 24/7, Easy Plus or Prestige to keep the preferential rate.

If you close this, you will lose your tracker.

€20 < €000's onto your mortgage.

cdev

aw wrote: »

For those of you with mortgages, be very careful.

It is in the Terms and Conditions of some of the ECB Trackers and other low rate mortgages that you MUST have a package account, ie 24/7, Easy Plus or Prestige to keep the preferential rate.

If you close this, you will lose your tracker.

€20 < €000's onto your mortgage.

I don't think it's going to be that easy for NIB to take trackers off people.

Restriction 3.17 of the Central Bank Consumer Protection Code forbids banks from making the sale of a product or service contingent on the consumer purchasing another product or service from them. As I see it, once NIB introduce charges on these mortgage servicing accounts they will be breaching this restriction.

I've written to my branch manager and the National Consumer Agency to seek clarification on this. I would urge anyone in a similar position to do likewise.

Elessar

It's a shame about the fees. I've banked with them since I was a kid. I know the local branch staff personally, there's free parking at it (a godsend where I live), their online banking is fantastic, they're always very friendly and I've never had any problems. I'm willing to pay €75/year to maintain all this and not have the hassle of changing my bank account. That's the way every bank is heading, including Ulster.

Though I hope they are not closing more branches or exiting Ireland. Despite my reservations, going cashless has turned out to be a great thing - there are more post offices than branches and my local PO is open late everyday and on weekends, better than any bank.

Galadriel

Elessar wrote: »

It's a shame about the fees. I've banked with them since I was a kid. I know the local branch staff personally, there's free parking at it (a godsend where I live), their online banking is fantastic, they're always very friendly and I've never had any problems. I'm willing to pay €75/year to maintain all this and not have the hassle of changing my bank account. That's the way every bank is heading, including Ulster.

Though I hope they are not closing more branches or exiting Ireland. Despite my reservations, going cashless has turned out to be a great thing - there are more post offices than branches and my local PO is open late everyday and on weekends, better than any bank.

I'm the same and don't really want to change but can you take money out from the post offices? If you can't then I don't think it's really fair to charge for all ATM transactions as they are a cashless bank and you have no other option.

earlyapex

I rang the number in the letter and explained how I only used the current account to service the mortgage. The guy checked the account for number of transactions in a month and for existence of a cheque book on it.
Since I don't have a cheque book linked to it and have less than 6 transactions in a month, it's classed as being a service style current account.
So it will not carry any fees.

I asked for this in writing and he put a note on my file that we talked about this and a letter will be sent out to me.
So I wait now, but it was simple, done in 2 minutes but why couldn't they have put this in their original letter?

meemeep

earlyapex wrote: »

I rang the number in the letter and explained how I only used the current account to service the mortgage. The guy checked the account for number of transactions in a month and for existence of a cheque book on it.
Since I don't have a cheque book linked to it and have less than 6 transactions in a month, it's classed as being a service style current account.
So it will not carry any fees.

I asked for this in writing and he put a note on my file that we talked about this and a letter will be sent out to me.
So I wait now, but it was simple, done in 2 minutes but why couldn't they have put this in their original letter?

That's brilliant. I can send back my laser card and leave the account just for this so. Will call into local branch to set this up. Thanks for the information.

earlyapex

They rang me back this afternoon and he was saying now that because its a tracker mortgage serviced from the current account, that it will move to a 24/7 account with charges.
I then challenged this stating that the current account was a condition of my original mortgage agreement and I can't be forced to take another service along with it, that paying for this enforced current account would be a breach of mortage conditions.

He said I had raised a good point and would send a note to the branch and confirm my mortage terms and get back to me either himself or someone from the branch will ring me.

What a mess!
Their staff aren't clear on the conditions with this, people are getting different answers.
Ring them and get it confirmed in writing like I am trying to do.

meemeep

earlyapex - somehow I'm not surprised by that answer. I'll call into my branch in the morning (not that there is really any such thing anymore) and see what they say.

Shifty

Its very confusing as the FAQ on their website says

' I only use my account to pay my mortgage/personal loan. Will I still move to 24/7 ?
In this instance your account will migrate to a similar non-fee paying account. If however, you have a chequebook or card attached to your account you will move to 24/7.

http://www.nationalirishbank.ie/en-ie/About-National-Irish-Bank/Customer-information/2012/Pages/accounts-migration.aspx#

cdev

earlyapex wrote: »

They rang me back this afternoon and he was saying now that because its a tracker mortgage serviced from the current account, that it will move to a 24/7 account with charges.
I then challenged this stating that the current account was a condition of my original mortgage agreement and I can't be forced to take another service along with it, that paying for this enforced current account would be a breach of mortage conditions.

He said I had raised a good point and would send a note to the branch and confirm my mortage terms and get back to me either himself or someone from the branch will ring me.

What a mess!
Their staff aren't clear on the conditions with this, people are getting different answers.
Ring them and get it confirmed in writing like I am trying to do.

I wrote to my branch manager last week to point out that forcing me to maintain and pay fees on my mortgage servicing account was a breach of the Central Bank Consumer Protection code. He replied by informing me that I would have to pay the fees and to complain to NIB's "Customer Service Standards Advisor " if I had a problem with it. I think they're making it as difficult as possible for people in the hope that we'll pay the fees. I've reported this to the National Consumer Agency and they're looking into it.

earlyapex

The financial ombudsman might have to get into this.

seanmacc

I just thought I'll throw my recent experience with NIB to show why I think they are winding up their operations here.

I've been banking with NIB since I was a teenager, you would be talking about 14 years and currently have one of their old Cashmaster accounts (free banking). I have a modest enough income going in, between myself and my wife approximately 34k per annum. We don't have a mortgage and essentially live rent free. The bank calculated that we have about 1200 euro disposable income per month. My wife had returned to full time education this year and had to pay the dreaded EU fees amounting to 6.5 k. 4k of this I payed out of savings. Rather than deplete our savings to a level I deem too low (6 months of income) I wanted to finance the last 2.5K of her fees. I duly went to my branch after making an appointment on the 20th March with the view of getting a personal loan for it. The rate for the loan was about 11% variable or 12.6% fixed. I made the point that this wasn't much lower than my credit card rate. My credit card limit stands at 2K. At that point I was told that my account would be moved changed and that all free banking will cease. I was given the three options of 24/7, Easy Plus and Prestige. I was steered in the direction of the Prestige because my wife and I do a lot of travelling and the Prestiege included a Mastercard Platinum (Free travel insurance, airport lounge access). The Platinum Mastercard had a rate of 9%. I thought to myself, Happy days. What we pay for travel insurance alone will pay the monthly charges. We had previously applied for an increase in our credit card limit up to 4K earlier in the year but the application was lost and I never pursued it. This I thought would be a final solution and thus applied for it.
Weeks went by and I heard nothing from the bank during this time the college sent us a letter demanding their final fees payment. When ringing the bank they told us that the application was still with their credit department but should be processed soon. On the afternoon of Holy Thursday we received a letter from our branch signed by the teller who put in our application for the new account saying:
"RE your applcation to have the Limit of your Mastercard increased.We regret to advise you that you have insufficient income to justify an increase of a credit limit on your account"
One sentence. When contacting the branch the following Tuesday I was told that they can't see why I needed an increase in my limit and that I should draw the money from savings. I wrote to them asking why this obvious lack of income for their Platinum card wasn't an issue when I applied and am yet to get an answer. The only way forward is to apply for a personal loan. You could imagine how peeved I was of this because of the years of banking with them and having a flawless record of credit and with savings far greater than I was seeking a credit limit of or finance for. I have since applied for the personal loan on 10th April and am still awaiting a decision from their credit department. If I get approval for this finance I will be moving my account from them. How fast they move in their credit department shows me how much I need to maintain savings as should an emergency happen where I will need to raise a substantial amount of cash they cannot be relied on.
I have written to them twice, once to my branch and to their customer services and have yet to get a response.

They must be winding down operations here as they are not offering even basic banking services.

earlyapex

I see NIB have changed their website section on the new current accounts. And the FAQ that said there would be no charge for service type accounts is gone!

So changes are happening behind closed doors and I haven't got that reply phone call I've been waiting for yet about their planned breach of contract.

Keep calling them, don't just roll over for them.

cdev

earlyapex wrote: »

I see NIB have changed their website section on the new current accounts. And the FAQ that said there would be no charge for service type accounts is gone!

So changes are happening behind closed doors and I haven't got that reply phone call I've been waiting for yet about their planned breach of contract.

Keep calling them, don't just roll over for them.

Over the last 2 days I've heard back from both the Financial Regulator and the National Consumer Agency. They both confirmed that charging for these accounts (that were created as part of the mortgage agreement) is a breach of the Consumer Protection Code. I've been advised to follow the NIB complaints procedure and take it to the Financial Ombudsman if needs be. So that's what I'll do..... I'm not wasting any more time talking to bank officials who don't seem to know how to solve this problem.

earlyapex

Today I got a call from them , not the branch like it was supposed to be and it was like starting all over again.

They went on about the charges and as soon as I mentioned them being in breach of the Code of consumer protection, she ended the converssation immediately telling me she would have my branch get in touch with me with the details of my mortgage as she did not have them!

Then why was she ringing me!

Anyway, I have in my terms and conditions I only have to keep the Easy account open to service the mortgage by standing order from another institution. Thats it.
Introducing a new charge is a breach of the mortage agreement by them.

I will follow suit and go the official complaints route.

Thoie

earlyapex wrote: »

Today I got a call from them , not the branch like it was supposed to be and it was like starting all over again.

They went on about the charges and as soon as I mentioned them being in breach of the Code of consumer protection, she ended the converssation immediately telling me she would have my branch get in touch with me with the details of my mortgage as she did not have them!

Then why was she ringing me!

Anyway, I have in my terms and conditions I only have to keep the Easy account open to service the mortgage by standing order from another institution. Thats it.
Introducing a new charge is a breach of the mortage agreement by them.

I will follow suit and go the official complaints route.

Thanks earlyapex, I'm in a similar situation, but haven't started the phone calls yet. By the sounds of it I think I'll skip the phone calls and move straight to writing to them.

earlyapex

Yeah, mention section 3.17 and 3.18 of the Central Bank's consumer protection code (another poster already mentioned this) which state:

3.17 A regulated entity must not make the sale of a product or service contingent on the consumer purchasing another product or service from the regulated entity. This provision does not prevent a regulated entity from offering additional products or services to consumers who are existing customers which are not available to potential consumers.

3.18 Where a credit institution requires a consumer to open a feeder account in order to avail of another product, this shall not be prevented by Provision 3.17 where all of the following conditions are met:

a) the consumer must not be obliged to use the feeder account for purposes other than facilitating payments to the product concerned;

b) charges cannot be applied for using the feeder account for the purpose for which it was established;

c) where additional facilities are available on the feeder account they must be optional and only activated if requested by the consumer; and

d) these conditions must be communicated clearly to the consumer.


3.18 (a) and (b) being most relevant.

The Central bank sent this excerpt to me today after I emailed them my situation, pointing out I am right and should pursue the official complaint procedure all the way to the financial ombudsman exactly like poster cdev above. They have also started their own investigation into the matter.