shorten barrel

davekangoo

im looking for someone to shorten the barrel on a cz17hmr and rethread it
anyone know of such a person
plus what difference does it make to accuracy

daithi55

the accuracy will be the same but the bullet trajectory will be lessened

rowa

Bit of information here as to the velocity loss due to barrel length, any good gundealer should be able to get the barrel shortened for you.

http://www.bullberry.com/HMRdata.html

Sparks

And aside from the accuracy, remember that there's a lower limit (50cm) below which shortening the barrel of a rifle is illegal in Ireland (there's gray area about buying one which is made with a sub-50cm barrel, but none at all about cutting down past that point).

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

And aside from the accuracy, remember that there's a lower limit (50cm) below which shortening the barrel of a rifle is illegal in Ireland (there's gray area about buying one which is made with a sub-50cm barrel, but none at all about cutting down past that point).

I was looking at the ruger 10/22 tactical and it has a very short barrel , i would be surprised if it is 50cm.

davekangoo

i was only thinking of bringing mine from a 22 down to 16 inch

rowa

davekangoo wrote: »

i was only thinking of bringing mine from a 22 down to 16 inch

According to the site in the link above you would lose very little velocity at 16".

Hibrion

If I was getting another 10-22 I'd go for the tactically. They're a very nice rifle!

rowa

Hibrion wrote: »

If I was getting another 10-22 I'd go for the tactically. They're a very nice rifle!

They're supposed to be much more accurate then previous heavy barrel semi's from ruger too.

Sparks

davekangoo wrote: »

i was only thinking of bringing mine from a 22 down to 16 inch

You'd be breaking the law.
Cutting it down to 20 inches would be fine (the limit's 19.68 if you want to get technical), but below that and unless it's done for a repair and immediately rebuilt up past the limit by a registered firearms dealer, you're breaking section 12A of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 (inserted by section 65 of the 2006 act). If convicted, there's actually a minimum five-year sentence (but I think they'd use sub-section 11 to avoid giving that).

rowa wrote: »

I was looking at the ruger 10/22 tactical and it has a very short barrel , i would be surprised if it is 50cm.

Yup. There are quite a few licenced firearms under the 50cm limit for rifles and the 61cm limit for shotguns; but if you have a licence for it, you can argue in court that you were issued the licence for it at that length and that constitutes lawful authority to have a firearm that short.

However, to the best of my knowledge, nobody has done this yet so we don't know if it will be accepted. It could go either way (we know of licences which were issued for firearms you cannot legally own in the EU; therefore it's possible to issue a licence which is null and void, leaving the applicant in legal limbo).

In other words, if you get done for having a licenced rifle that's shorter than the legal limit, don't tell them I said it was okay, cos that's not what I'm saying


When you shorten a barrel though, you don't even have that fig leaf to hide behind. Your licence was issued for the longer barrel length, you've materially altered your firearm and broken the Firearms Act in the process. Completely different kettle of fish.

rowa

The ruger is a smidge over 16" which surprises me as it seems shorter then that , i read somewhere that the optimum length for a .22 lr barrel is 12-13".

http://ruger.com/products/1022Tactical/models.html

jagged

Can a .22lr be shortened? I have a cz 452 and was thinking of getting it done as its quite long when the mod is added.. Can anyone recommend a dealer in tipp area to deal with? Paul o halloran or stakelums etc??

zeissman

I was going to get my 22lr cut to 16ins but after reading that info from sparks
I have decided not to.

lefthooker

Lets say you get pulled up over the length of the barrel on your rifle and lets say its 16", whose to say you didn't buy it that way?

rowa

lefthooker wrote: »

Lets say you get pulled up over the length of the barrel on your rifle and lets say its 16", whose to say you didn't buy it that way?

A phone call to the manufacturer by the garda ballistics dept.

juice1304

it's still your responsibility to know the law

Sparks

lefthooker wrote: »

Lets say you get pulled up over the length of the barrel on your rifle and lets say its 16", whose to say you didn't buy it that way?

If you're hauled up over this, it will be your responsibility to prove you bought it that way and that the licence was issued for the rifle at that length, because that's your defence against a charge; if you offer a defence in court, you have to prove it, it's not like they'll take you at your word.

lefthooker

Fair enough Sparks but then should the laws be amended to acommadate for all the new rimfires available with 16" barrels?

Sparks

They definitely need to be altered allright - the whole point of that section of the law was to be able to catch gangsters before they shot someone with a cut-down gun and put them in jail for a long time; that your licence isn't explicitly stated to be a sufficient defence against having a firearm under that set length or having one cut down to below that length is a bug, not a feature. There are good reasons for having shorter rifles and shotguns; they just weren't made clear to the PTB at the time or lobbied for correctly. The FCP wasn't around at the time; if it had been, I don't think we'd have this problem today, it's too easy to fix.

lefthooker

All those acronyms make my brain melt:rolleyes:

Sparks

All it took was two?
PTB - Powers That Be (aka, the Minister, the Dail, the Seanad, the Department, the Commissioner, the Chief Super, the Super, the Garda in general and the local county council ('cos they do planning permission for ranges)). To be fair, that's a fairly worthy acronym

FCP - Firearms Consultation Panel. Do a search up there at the top of the page if you have a spare week and want some reading

lefthooker

Yes 2- I'll hold my hands up. Its this goddamn acronym world we live in.:o

jagged

jagged wrote: »

Can a .22lr be shortened? I have a cz 452 and was thinking of getting it done as its quite long when the mod is added.. Can anyone recommend a dealer in tipp area to deal with? Paul o halloran or stakelums etc??

Anybody???!!!

Cass

As dealers they send out their work so why not ring them and ask who they send their work to then go with that person.

clivej

jagged wrote: »

Anybody???!!!

Dominic Byrne, Fergal White, search boards.ie for mor details


any very good local engineering shop if you know what you need doing

Alucan

I got the barrel on my cz 17hmr shortened to 16 inch its a much nicer gun to shoot now specially when the mod is on it any machine shop will do it
but most wont strip and rebuild it but its pretty easy to do yourself and there is no difference in accuracy

rowa

Alucan wrote: »

I got the barrel on my cz 17hmr shortened to 16 inch its a much nicer gun to shoot now specially when the mod is on it any machine shop will do it
but most wont strip and rebuild it but its pretty easy to do yourself and there is no difference in accuracy

Be extremely careful dropping a firearm or a part of a firearm into any machine shop without knowing them or researching them ,i went for an interview for a job in a engineering workshop once and it turned out the owner had just been released under the good friday agreement for making mortar tubes for the " irish rifle association" :eek:.

zeissman

rowa wrote: »

Be extremely careful dropping a firearm or a part of a firearm into any machine shop without knowing them or researching them ,i went for an interview for a job in a engineering workshop once and it turned out the owner had just been released under the good friday agreement for making mortar tubes for the " irish rifle association" :eek:.

Never leave your firearm with anyone unless they have a firearms dealers licence.

Alucan

rowa wrote: »

Be extremely careful dropping a firearm or a part of a firearm into any machine shop without knowing them or researching them ,i went for an interview for a job in a engineering workshop once and it turned out the owner had just been released under the good friday agreement for making mortar tubes for the " irish rifle association" :eek:.

He should be able to handle a small job like shorting a barrel then :

rowa

Alucan wrote: »

He should be able to handle a small job like shorting a barrel then :

Yeah, and he could just as easily send of his buddies with balaclavas around to do a home collection, stick with getting work done by rfd's.

Cass

clivej wrote: »

any very good local engineering shop if you know what you need doing

Alucan wrote: »

............. any machine shop will do it
but ...............

Remember lads, that any gunsmith, rifle builder, etc has an RFD to allow him to posess, store the firearm while work is carried out on it. So..........;

zeissman wrote: »

Never leave your firearm with anyone unless they have a firearms dealers licence.

........ is the best adivce that can be given. If you leave the gun with someone in a machine shop/engineering shop, etc. and they don't have an RFD license then both of ye are in the s**t.

I'm not 100% on how ye stand on being present while the work is done. Yes you are covered because as the licensed owner of the firearm it is in your possession, but the law makes it clear all work to be carried out by a compentent RFD. I'll make further inquiries about this, but ALWAYS air on the side of caution.

Go to an RFD, and know you are 100% covered, insured, guaranteed.

cushcam

jagged wrote: »

Anybody???!!!

i'd imagine gerry gearon in clonmel could do it

(052)6138164

Alucan

rowa wrote: »

Yeah, and he could just as easily send of his buddies with balaclavas around to do a home collection, stick with getting work done by rfd's.

95% of RFDs will strip the gun and send it to a machine shop which is not a RFD to have the work carried out and if so who is responsible if something goes wrong . I am not having a go just some food for thought.

It wasn't me!

Well AFAIK your contract with the RFD would oblige them to carry out the work or ensure that it was carried out. If the work done was sub-par, they've failed to abide by their half of the agreement, so they're liable for it.

Cass

I very much doubt any RFD would knowingly or purposely send a firarm or componant part of a firearm to a NON RFD to have work carried out on it.

It would land both parties in alot of trouble, and the RFd could kiss his/her RFD license goodbye. Then the shop taking in the parts could be charged with possession of unlicensed firearms, illegal possession of componant parts, etc.


Before you decide to come back and say "well i know X, Y, and Z that are doing this" remember there are some pretty strict rules on Boards, and very serious laws regarding (possible) defamatory remarks/statments towards named individuals. So unless you have some documented proof of such goings on (or even if you do) consider the ramifications of posting such info on a public, and open forum.

Alucan

Ezridax wrote: »

Before you decide to come back and say "well i know X, Y, and Z that are doing this" remember there are some pretty strict rules on Boards, and very serious laws regarding (possible) defamatory remarks/statments towards named individuals. So unless you have some documented proof of such goings on (or even if you do) consider the ramifications of posting such info on a public, and open forum.

I have no intention of naming anybody i am not looking to cause hassle for for any RFDs ,Boards or myself as i said before just some food for thought

4200fps

davekangoo wrote: »

im looking for someone to shorten the barrel on a cz17hmr and rethread it
anyone know of such a person
plus what difference does it make to accuracy

Personally I'd never would buy a rifle with a short barrel as id leave it the way the manufacture made it even tho it looks better,more compact even when a mod is on it but the down fall is the balance will be off as it be heavier on the rear,it will have greater muzzle blast,more recoil and muzzle lift,the shorter barrel also will not stabilize the bullet much at long ranges so less fps,increased bullet drop and grouping may not be as tight. There will be a louder bang/crack when fired depending on size of your round, you also will need an experienced lathe turner who knows about fire arms to put the right crown back on the rifle after its shortened but at end of day not many like buying rifles that are shortened for these reasons. Its your rifle at the end of day

davekangoo

i tend to agree with you

4200fps

davekangoo wrote: »

i tend to agree with you

You've nothing to worry about leaving it at factory spec lad. IMO you will be out alot money shortening it professionally also you will have them down falls but all you will gain by shortening it is mobility and that's about all. It's a good rifle you have I wouldn't ruin it

Vegeta

4200fps wrote: »

Personally I'd never would buy a rifle with a short barrel as id leave it the way the manufacture made it

What about rifles that come from the manufacturer with short barrels?

lefthooker

Vegeta wrote: »

What about rifles that come from the manufacturer with short barrels?

CZ .22/.17 with 16" barrels are some of the best sellers for one of the local RFD's along with the odd guy who gets a his barrel shortened/threaded. I have a short(ened) barrel on my .22 and no loss of performance. No need for a long barrel on a .22
You have nothing to fear from rifle with a short barrel or from shortening a barrel so long as you get it done by one of the many highly recommended gunsmiths in the country

4200fps

Vegeta wrote: »

What about rifles that come from the manufacturer with short barrels?

Thats a differnt story,the way the manufactre designed it to be is best. They do insure its going to perform good before they put it into production. I picked up a .220 remington and a steyr .243 and the cowning didn't look great,also the rear of the rifles felt alot heavier compared to the unshortend rifle in same spec. Totaly unballanced and thats not a good thing at all. Looks good but thats about all. I told the dealer I had no interest in either as they were the first two to introduce to me as i know why-he's stuck with them not too many wants them. When i say these were short i mean 4 inchs taken off them.

tomcat220t

Vegeta wrote: »

What about rifles that come from the manufacturer with short barrels?

C/Z in .22lr ......a factory made short barrel Vs a shortened barrel from the muzzle end .......C/Z factory barrel,for me any day !
The best way to shorten a .22lr barrel is from the chamber ,imo!

4200fps

lefthooker wrote: »

CZ .22/.17 with 16" barrels are some of the best sellers for one of the local RFD's along with the odd guy who gets a his barrel shortened/threaded. I have a short(ened) barrel on my .22 and no loss of performance. No need for a long barrel on a .22
You have nothing to fear from rifle with a short barrel or from shortening a barrel so long as you get it done by one of the many highly recommended gunsmiths in the country

You will feel it on the pocket getting it done right, he will have to recrown it properly which is a job you wont know if its 100% by looking at it also he may have to rethread it if you've a mod. Well on a .22 I doubt anybody will notice a difference but shorten any rifle from .204 and greater you will see it down range. Grouping wont be as good also bullet drop may be up to and inch greater . Less rifleing on a barrel cant be good as it may not stabilize the round as great after 250 yards. I dont think theres any performance factors by shortening a rifle barrel outside factory spec IMO. I think its silly shortening them,it may also decrease value of your rifle. If you hear the crack out of a swift with a shortend barrel it would burst your ear drum and they are savage loud as it is with standard length barrel. You will end up having greater muzzle flip and flash and nobody wants that at all

rowa

On a .22lr the barrel doesn't gain anything by being longer then 10-12 inches , the propellant has expanded as much as its going to in that time , in fact shortening the barrel may increase the velocity as the bullet suffers from drag on the inside of the barrel for the remainder of its travel. Also its the rate of the rifling that determines the stability , not the amount of it. After all i've seen .22 pistols with short barrels (3.5"-6") that were very accurate out to 50 yards.

Anschutz make a range of rimfire short barrel sporters.

4200fps

rowa wrote: »

On a .22lr the barrel doesn't gain anything by being longer then 10-12 inches , the propellant has expanded as much as its going to in that time , in fact shortening the barrel may increase the velocity as the bullet suffers from drag on the inside of the barrel for the remainder of its travel. Also its the rate of the rifling that determines the stability , not the amount of it. After all i've seen .22 pistols with short barrels (3.5"-6") that were very accurate out to 50 yards.

Anschutz make a range of rimfire short barrel sporters.

I wont dis agree rowa on your post but a good man firing a fast round like .204 or heavy round will/should notice it down range but on .22 or less ,small case rounds I wouldnt know so you may be 100% correct in what your saying. I may be wrong with what i said in above posts but i dont think i am

lefthooker

lefthooker wrote: »

CZ .22/.17 with 16" barrels are some of the best sellers for one of the local RFD's along with the odd guy who gets a his barrel shortened/threaded. I have a short(ened) barrel on my .22 and no loss of performance. No need for a long barrel on a .22
You have nothing to fear from rifle with a short barrel or from shortening a barrel so long as you get it done by one of the many highly recommended gunsmiths in the country

I won't argue with you regard shortening a centrefire barrel but I posted regard rimfire barrels as the OP's original question was regarding a .17 HMR. And as some rifles don't come factory threaded there isn't much extra cost in getting your rimfire rifle shortened and recrowned if you are getting it threaded for a mod.

4200fps

I know he was on about the .17hmr but i was just saying whats the advantages of shortening a rifle out of factory spec other than looks and greater mobility. I was just giving examples of the down sides so he could think about what he wish's to do rather than the man saying ah SH!TE pity nobody told me this was going to happen,the mans gun could be very unbalanced and there's many people out there who cut half their barrel of and realise its not worth a dam having all the problems i mentioned and maybe more and leave in with dealer hoping someone else will get codded by buying it. Well if he gets it reduced by 2 inch's tops and re crowned he may be happy with it and it could be a success but will the next buyer want it is another thing. Its too good of a rifle to saw imo

davekangoo

im inclined to agree with you
4200
better the devil you know

4200fps

davekangoo wrote: »

im inclined to agree with you
4200
better the devil you know

Cheers davekangoo, makes sense tho

TriggerPL

why not trade it your rifle and buy a factory shortened one , i wouldn like to mess with the factor settings .