Publican looking for help

cc181187

Hi,
I'm a rural publican and cannot afford the sky fees for showing racing and football. I have read the threads on how to setup and what to buy etc. Would be looking for someone to setup this in our pub. All material will be bought in accordance to your spec and all tools needed will be provided, and obviously you will be paid well for your work. Our pub is 45 minutes from the city centre of Dublin so is fairly accessible. Would be looking for an easy to use service that would include most premier league games and racing. Please PM if interested.

Thanks

C

Going by recent European laws past, it wouldnt be worth your while. After that case over in the UK it seems you can buy the equipment and put it in the bar. But you can be done for copyright if you were to show a game which sky have the rights for. My uncle has a pub also and have been looking into it. He already has the equipment. Sky seem to be now coming down hard on all these pubs.

http://business.sky.com/Media/PR/CLAMPDOWNONILLEGALPREMIERLEAGUEBROADCASTS

Premier

Looks like he was done for this

The licensee of the Rose Inn, Shenfield, Essex has been ordered to pay over £19k in fines and costs after being convicted for showing Premier League and international matches via Sky Sports without a commercial viewing agreement. This conviction comes shortly after warnings by The Premier League and Sky of a new campaign against illegal screenings following the High Court’s ruling on the QC Leisure case.

Looks like he was cought using a domestic sky sub in a commercial premises.

irishgeo

was convicted in his absence of six offences of dishonest reception of a television transmission, i.e. Sky televised football matches at the above licensed premises with the intent to avoid payment of the applicable charge. This is Contrary to Section 297 (1) of the Copyright Design and Patents Act 1988.

but say he was paying a home sub how did they do him?

surely its not written law that you have to pay Sky commerical rates to watch sports?

whats the law on this in Ireland?

Manc-Red

I've never heard of an Irish pub getting into any trouble for screening foreign broadcasters in their establishment....

Sure isn't Sky "Foreign" ????:D

irishgeo

Manc-Red wrote: »

I've never heard of an Irish pub getting into any trouble for screening foreign broadcasters in their establishment....

Sure isn't Sky "Foreign" ????:D

i know a few who got caught with the home sub in the pub lark even one who handed the remote over to the sky inspector so he could watch what he wanted.:D

recyclebin

I don't think the OP was really asking about getting Sky in his pub. The above cases are to do with showing Sky sports without a valid subscription.

There are plenty of other valid subscriptions throughout Europe that you can buy without breaking the law.

To start you will need a satellite dish. Probably 80-110cm depending on which satellite channels you want to get.

You will then need a satellite decoder box with a card reader. The Ferguson Ariva 120 is a really cheap box and has a card reader and can read most cards. I've tried it with a Cyfra card and an Al Jazeera card

You then need to purchase a valid subscription card. There are a few service providers that show premier league football. Cyfra Canal+ is a cheap polish subscription that shows a good few matches. The commentary is in polish though. Tring are an albanian service provider. I think they have English Commentary although i'm not sure.

There are plenty of other options like a Greek package. I don't know enough about them to comment.

By using these foreign subscriptions in Ireland you are likely to be breaking the terms and conditions of the service provider but it is not illegal. You could be done for copyright though as the premier league logos are protected. I think that the permier league would have to take a civil case against you for this.

The recent court ruling in the UK didn't really make things black and white as to what is allowed and what is not allowed so there is a big grey area surrounding the showing of foreign satellite subscriptions in pubs.

recyclebin

Here is link to info on the European court case of a pub owner in the UK. I don't think any pub in Ireland has been done for showing EU satellite subscriptions but I'm open to correction.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/feb/24/pub-landlady-karen-murphy-premier-league?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

There is also more of the same info in this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056562387

Minstrel27

recyclebin wrote: »

I don't think the OP was really asking about getting Sky in his pub. The above cases are to do with showing Sky sports without a valid subscription.

There are plenty of other valid subscriptions throughout Europe that you can buy without breaking the law.

To start you will need a satellite dish. Probably 80-110cm depending on which satellite channels you want to get.

You will then need a satellite decoder box with a card reader. The Ferguson Ariva 120 is a really cheap box and has a card reader and can read most cards. I've tried it with a Cyfra card and an Al Jazeera card

You then need to purchase a valid subscription card. There are a few service providers that show premier league football. Cyfra Canal+ is a cheap polish subscription that shows a good few matches. The commentary is in polish though. Tring are an albanian service provider. I think they have English Commentary although i'm not sure.

There are plenty of other options like a Greek package. I don't know enough about them to comment.

By using these foreign subscriptions in Ireland you are likely to be breaking the terms and conditions of the service provider but it is not illegal. You could be done for copyright though as the premier league logos are protected. I think that the permier league would have to take a civil case against you for this.

The recent court ruling in the UK didn't really make things black and white as to what is allowed and what is not allowed so there is a big grey area surrounding the showing of foreign satellite subscriptions in pubs.

Would the EU ruling include packages from outside of the EU? I wouldn't think so. I say this as you mention Al Jazeera and Tring

cc181187

recyclebin wrote: »

I don't think the OP was really asking about getting Sky in his pub. The above cases are to do with showing Sky sports without a valid subscription.

There are plenty of other valid subscriptions throughout Europe that you can buy without breaking the law.

To start you will need a satellite dish. Probably 80-110cm depending on which satellite channels you want to get.

You will then need a satellite decoder box with a card reader. The Ferguson Ariva 120 is a really cheap box and has a card reader and can read most cards. I've tried it with a Cyfra card and an Al Jazeera card

You then need to purchase a valid subscription card. There are a few service providers that show premier league football. Cyfra Canal+ is a cheap polish subscription that shows a good few matches. The commentary is in polish though. Tring are an albanian service provider. I think they have English Commentary although i'm not sure.

There are plenty of other options like a Greek package. I don't know enough about them to comment.

By using these foreign subscriptions in Ireland you are likely to be breaking the terms and conditions of the service provider but it is not illegal. You could be done for copyright though as the premier league logos are protected. I think that the permier league would have to take a civil case against you for this.

The recent court ruling in the UK didn't really make things black and white as to what is allowed and what is not allowed so there is a big grey area surrounding the showing of foreign satellite subscriptions in pubs.

thanks a million, very helpful...other posts ....i haven't had sky in the pub before and have chorus as as my res, was just looking for a cheaper way to show sports instead of sky, looked into it and couldnt sustain the costs, have a lot of people coming in and looking to watch man u, liverpool etc and was looking for a cost effective solution

Hunter Mahan

If you had relatives in the same game as yourself, and assuming you have good internet connection, a slingbox could be an option to reduce the costs?

I know using a slingbox is ok legally for domestic use, but I'm unsure of the legality surrounding your situation.

recyclebin

recyclebin wrote: »

By using these foreign subscriptions in Ireland you are likely to be breaking the terms and conditions of the service provider but it is not illegal. You could be done for copyright though as the premier league logos are protected. I think that the permier league would have to take a civil case against you for this.

We were looking at the legalities of this also and this. You can be done on copyright now. If you think about it , if you stream your music from Canada , it doesnt mean you can avoid the IMRO charge. The rights holders need to be paid.

kippy

Deleted User wrote: »

We were looking at the legalities of this also and this. You can be done on copyright now. If you think about it , if you stream your music from Canada , it doesnt mean you can avoid the IMRO charge. The rights holders need to be paid.

My understanding:
The pubs in the UK are under a different set of laws and the contracts the PL has with sky are in effect there, especially when it comes to the 15:00 games on a Saturday which the PL are totally against showing in the UK as they believe it would effect attendances at this game (this is currently under review I believe)

The foreign Sat providers (Tring etc), are paid for services. So you pay for the card. I believe these providers have the rights to PL games broadcast in their home country (poland or greece or where ever). These providers would have paid the PL for the privilege therefore, in my opinion the rights holders would have been paid indirectly by you, in much the same was as when you pay for Sky Sports that pays for the PL rights.....

As far as I am aware the law hasn't fully been tested yet in relation to the purchasing of goods and services across borders when it comes to Sat TV, so the legality of using a subscription to a "foreign" sat station to watch PL games isn't known. However as someone else stated Sky have been offering this service in Ireland for years and they do are "foreign".

kippy

kippy wrote: »

The foreign Sat providers (Tring etc), are paid for services. So you pay for the card. I believe these providers have the rights to PL games broadcast in their home country (poland or greece or where ever). These providers would have paid the PL for the privilege therefore, in my opinion the rights holders would have been paid indirectly by you, in much the same was as when you pay for Sky Sports that pays for the PL rights.....

But wouldnt the rights for the UK and ireland are alot more expensive then the rights for greece.

kippy

Deleted User wrote: »

But wouldnt the rights for the UK and ireland are alot more expensive then the rights for greece.

Probably, but that may not come into it when you look at the legal aspects of it.
I was just giving my understanding of what had been going on.

recyclebin

The only legal issue that seems to be the problem are the copyright of the premier league logos on screen.

For example on Canal+ TV station from Poland there is a premier logo now present in the bottom right hand corner on all live games. There is also a premier league logo in the top right hand corner beside the scoreboard. You could easily block these out. The problems is that they also seem to put logos on the whole screen before and after each instant replay. These wouldn't be as easy to block out in a pub scenario.

For some more of the advanced linux satellite boxes it could be possible to develop and install a software addon to cover up any logos. If someone could write this software it would be very valuable to a lot of people.

Minstrel27

recyclebin wrote: »

For example on Canal+ TV station from Poland there is a premier logo now present in the bottom right hand corner on all live games

This is now on all games broadcast outside of Ireland and the UK

tapfit2004

the man city sunderland game is on live now free to air with english commentary on grts gambia on 7e.

what is to stop any pub from showing this match assuming they have a dish pointed at 7e or a motorised system? i can see the premier league logo in the corner but the channel is fta.

also i was going to set up a motorised system for a pub in dublin a few years ago to pick up the gaa feeds on saturday and sunday. this was going to be used to show the defered coverage games live. the feeds are 4.2.2 but are fta. would this cause the owner a problem?


just to note on the grts coverage, the picture looks ok but the commentary has gone off once and change to french for a few seconds as well but its back in english now.

byte

Don't think there's any problem when it is FTA.