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Cycling on a dual carriageway

  • 01-03-2012 8:51pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371
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    is it permitted? did it today and two motorists honked at me.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 foggy_lad
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    is it permitted? did it today and two motorists honked at me.
    Yes it is permitted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 Cookie_Monster
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    is it permitted? did it today and two motorists honked at me.

    ignore them, they're just being arseholes. You have every right to cycle on any road apart from Motorways (and certain tunnels for some reason)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,858 Bigcheeze
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    is it permitted? did it today and two motorists honked at me.

    Were you cycling in the hard shoulder or the main traffic lane....or hogging the fast lane :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 Run_to_da_hills
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    is it permitted? did it today and two motorists honked at me.
    I would have given both of them the middle finger. :p


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
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    I would have given both of them the middle finger. :p

    A wave is far more effective...

    194905.png


    (and certain tunnels for some reason)

    Strictly speaking, currently, there is no legal ban on cyclists in any tunnel which is not part of a motorway, but you'd want to be fairly foolish.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 Cookie_Monster
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    monument wrote: »
    Strictly speaking, currently, there is no legal ban on cyclists in any tunnel which is not part of a motorway, but you'd want to be fairly foolish.

    No legal ban true, but there was a thread here about the Limerick Tunnel not allowing cyclists use it wasn't there?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
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    No legal ban true, but there was a thread here about the Limerick Tunnel not allowing cyclists use it wasn't there?

    Yes, there was such a thread, but anybody who said there was a ban in force was wrong. There is not, I asked! Not at least until the regulations are updated -- there has been an updated traffic SI (dealing with a load of things) in the pipeline for maybe more than six months now. Before / in early December I was assured it would be a matter of a month or two at the most. So, any day now, or is it any month now?

    Just to be clear: I am not against a ban on cycling in large tunnels, I'm just pointing out there is no ban. But I also think the authorities have failed in their legal responsibility to cater for all road users. Then again, the NRA, local authorities and other state bodies seem to like to invent things as they go along (like signs with no legal meaning), pretend there is no problem, and "solve" the problems later.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 Fuinseog
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    thanks for the replies.

    on another matter, do you dare cycle around a roundabout? technically its legal, but something that will land you in A n E.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    thanks for the replies.

    on another matter, do you dare cycle around a roundabout? technically its legal, but something that will land you in A n E.

    What roundabout? Are you trying to say every roundabout is going to land you in A&E?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 flyingsnail
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    thanks for the replies.

    on another matter, do you dare cycle around a roundabout? technically its legal, but something that will land you in A n E.

    I dare, and it has landed me in AnE in the past, it also landed the driver in court.:D


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 galwaycyclist
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    thanks for the replies.

    on another matter, do you dare cycle around a roundabout? technically its legal, but something that will land you in A n E.

    See here for discussion

    http://www.oocities.org/galwaycyclist/info/roundabouts.html

    Basically you handle them like a car or get off and walk. It depends on your own assesment of your skills, nature of traffic etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,799 Doodah7
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    is it permitted? did it today and two motorists honked at me.

    And if you were cycling on the N7 southbound at about 5.30 yesterday evening, I was one of the two that honked you! Cycling (or ambling more like it) along in front of an exit with cars approaching it at c. 60km an hour and having to brake hard because a cyclist was crossing the exit is one way to end up in A&E...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 Wicklowrider
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    I dare, and it has landed me in AnE in the past, it also landed the driver in court.:D
    Snap.

    Happened to me when I was exiting roundabout a car drove onto the roundabout without yielding. I was taken to hospital in ambulance with bad cuts and bruises. 5 weeks later and same driver same roundabout almost hit me again. So I got her summoned and done in court for careless driving because the roundabout was right beside a school and the she was determined to kill someone.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 galwaycyclist
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    tallpaul wrote: »
    And if you were cycling on the N7 southbound at about 5.30 yesterday evening, I was one of the two that honked you! Cycling (or ambling more like it) along in front of an exit with cars approaching it at c. 60km an hour and having to brake hard because a cyclist was crossing the exit is one way to end up in A&E...

    This is true, in particular, for cyclists, Dual Carriageway type entry slip roads carry the highest risk of fatal collisions. Exit slip roads are also problematic as observed.

    Irish roundabout designs tend to be problematic for motorcyclists and cyclists precisely because they tend to be laid out as a series of slip roads rather than a series of proper t-junctions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 Fuinseog
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    See here for discussion

    http://www.oocities.org/galwaycyclist/info/roundabouts.html

    Basically you handle them like a car or get off and walk. It depends on your own assesment of your skills, nature of traffic etc

    I have experienced the ones in galway and if you are not fast enough you are screwed. though I heard they are being removed. have been knocked twice at roundabouts. these days i get off and walk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 Fuinseog
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    tallpaul wrote: »
    And if you were cycling on the N7 southbound at about 5.30 yesterday evening, I was one of the two that honked you! Cycling (or ambling more like it) along in front of an exit with cars approaching it at c. 60km an hour and having to brake hard because a cyclist was crossing the exit is one way to end up in A&E...

    It was the N1 actually. so if cyclists are not fast enough get honk em? dare I say it but at times you have to drive slowly.

    it reminds me of when I 'undercut' a motorist turning left by passing him on the inside, in other words going along in the cycle lane. he did not see me, but ran me down and tired to make out it was my fault. I always thought it was cyclists who were not vigilant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,102 Genghis
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    tallpaul wrote: »
    And if you were cycling on the N7 southbound at about 5.30 yesterday evening, I was one of the two that honked you! Cycling (or ambling more like it) along in front of an exit with cars approaching it at c. 60km an hour and having to brake hard because a cyclist was crossing the exit is one way to end up in A&E...

    I often cycle the N7, and you describe the most dangerous aspect. I cycle in the hard shoulder, to the left side. So far so safe. Approaching an exit, I need to move over to the left side of the left most lane so that I can pass through the junction. At the other side, I will need to revert to the left side of the hard shoulder. On both approach and leaving the juction I am crossing exiting and entering traffic moving at up to 100kmph.

    PS I wasn't travelling southbound yesterday ;) In fact, I have never been honked at making those manouvers, but I have certainly felt very vulnerable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,741 jd
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    It was the N1 actually.

    .
    Where on the N1? Coming up to the Coolock Junction?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 mickredirl
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    Am very new to road cycling and have to say... I love cycling but feel very vulnerable when approaching roundabouts. Just started in the last week cycling to work 14km one way each morning..

    From reading this tread... I think I will have to build my courage to cycle around the roundabout.. At present I just hope off and cross over to the other side. Like all road users. I follow the rules of the road, but I find some people out there in the cars just seem to think that the rules are not written for them!!!Not all drivers, only some!!!

    Any way... I think for the moment I'll continue dismounting and crossing at a safe place at my nightmare roundabouts..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 Rock of Gibraltar
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    Here's a cycle segregated and prioritized roundabout in the Netherlands
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEXD0guLQY0&feature=related

    I was a bit sketchy about using one at first but they're great, the cycle priority really slows and calms the car traffic, it makes the drivers far more observant and aware of cyclists.
    Here's more info on them;
    http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/priority-for-cyclists-on-roundabouts-in-the-netherlands/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 Cookie_Monster
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    mickredirl wrote: »
    Am very new to road cycling and have to say... I love cycling but feel very vulnerable when approaching roundabouts. Just started in the last week cycling to work 14km one way each morning..
    all I will say is don't be. Command your space, move out and block the lane if need be. You have every right to be on the road and take your space esp at any kind of junction


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 Taltos
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    Back to that meme - when I cycled to work and got honked my response was always a big wave and a happy smile - the amount of confused faces just made this priceless. Found nothing else worked as well - think it helped remind drivers that I was a human and not some weird bike hybrid machine (oh I wish).

    I now drive on the N11 and regularly at night come across one of the local (I think) cycling clubs and always just as I come to my exit :)

    Having cycled I at least am aware of how fast these guys can really be travelling - something that is deceptive to most drivers I think. Depending on where I meet them I will either continue and and take my exit or slow right down to follow them around.
    I always tried to take the dominant position at junctions and roundabouts - a bit easier in the city center where traffic is naturally slow moving, but more difficult on motorways where cars are decelerating from 100k to go around a roundabout.

    All you can really do is just be extra vigilent at roundabouts and exits, expect the unexpected, and expect a motorist to misjudge or not even see you. I know this is unreasonable but have found it mostly stood to me while I was out and about with only one incident where I had no chance to avoid a car that swung right in front of me and did an emergency stop due to a panicked driver. seeing me at the last second (not sure how he missed me up to then). If he had kept going we would both have been fine but I had zero chance to avoid and so had my front forks bent almost 90 degrees to the bike. Still thank the magic bike gods to this day - somehow the bike and I stayed on that side of the car without doing a flip.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 Paddy Bateman
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    is it permitted? did it today and two motorists honked at me.
    I don believe it is


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 corktina
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    tallpaul wrote: »
    And if you were cycling on the N7 southbound at about 5.30 yesterday evening, I was one of the two that honked you! Cycling (or ambling more like it) along in front of an exit with cars approaching it at c. 60km an hour and having to brake hard because a cyclist was crossing the exit is one way to end up in A&E...

    in that case you should be aware that you are a poor driver. You must drive so that you can stop or avoid a hazard and adjust your speed accordingly. Cyclists crossing an off ramp have a perfect right to be there and are one of the hazards you should be looking for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,741 jd
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    It was the N1 actually. so if cyclists are not fast enough get honk em? dare I say it but at times you have to drive slowly.
    .

    Are you sure you weren't on a motorway? I don't know of any part of the N1 that is dual carriageway but not motorway between Dublin and Dundalk.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 foggy_lad
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    Here's a cycle segregated and prioritized roundabout in the Netherlands
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEXD0guLQY0&feature=related

    I was a bit sketchy about using one at first but they're great, the cycle priority really slows and calms the car traffic, it makes the drivers far more observant and aware of cyclists.
    Here's more info on them;
    http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/priority-for-cyclists-on-roundabouts-in-the-netherlands/
    Does it stop cyclists running red lights?
    jd wrote: »
    Are you sure you weren't on a motorway? I don't know of any part of the N1 that is dual carriageway but not motorway between Dublin and Dundalk.
    There is no part of the N1 that is a motorway or it would be called the M1.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    OP -- where exactly were you? Can you point out where on google maps or street view?

    Or can you explain what roads you were near?


    I don believe it is

    We'll you're thinking wrong. Cycling is allowed on duel carriageways, just not on motorways.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,741 jd
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    foggy_lad wrote: »


    There is no part of the N1 that is a motorway or it would be called the M1.
    Ok The N1/M1 route :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 Rock of Gibraltar
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    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Does it stop cyclists running red lights?

    Well there are no lights in that roundabout example but there is far less red light running in the Dutch junction design.
    Most Dutch cycle paths continue around junctions so there is no red light if you were to turn right (left in Ireland). Whereas in Ireland you'd have to wait for a green.
    Cyclists have their own lights for going straight or left (right in Ireland), I've seen a few people breaking reds when going straight at quiet junctions but the lights are synchronised for turning left so if you broke one light you'd have to wait at the second one.
    There's a good illustration here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,390 markpb
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    jd wrote: »
    Are you sure you weren't on a motorway? I don't know of any part of the N1 that is dual carriageway but not motorway between Dublin and Dundalk.

    The N1 runs from Batchelors Walk to the northern exit of the DPT. The N1/M1 runs from the airport to near the border with the M50 filling the bit in the middle (between northern DPT exit and the airport).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,741 jd
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    markpb wrote: »
    The N1 runs from Batchelors Walk to the northern exit of the DPT. The N1/M1 runs from the airport to near the border with the M50 filling the bit in the middle (between northern DPT exit and the airport).

    I know. The OP mentioned cycling on a dual carriageway and that "two motorists honked at me". He then clarified it was the N1. So the question is where on the N1 was he cycling?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    OR if it even was the N1!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,390 markpb
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    jd wrote: »
    I know. The OP mentioned cycling on a dual carriageway and that "two motorists honked at me". He then clarified it was the N1. So the question is where on the N1 was he cycling?

    Presumably between the Swords/Collins junction and the DPT? I used to get honked all the time when cycling past the Santry northbound slip. One a taxi driver slowed down enough to tell me I shouldn't be cycling on a motorway and a Garda stopped me at Whitehall church sounthbound to tell me the same thing (five years after it was downgraded). The ignorance from the general population is shocking.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    markpb wrote: »
    Presumably between the Swords/Collins junction and the DPT? I used to get honked all the time when cycling past the Santry northbound slip. One a taxi driver slowed down enough to tell me I shouldn't be cycling on a motorway and a Garda stopped me at Whitehall church sounthbound to tell me the same thing (five years after it was downgraded). The ignorance from the general population is shocking.

    The ignorance is shocking.

    I think it's made worse by the cycle lane which directs you on to the side road northbound just after the Collins Avenue junction. Even when talking the slip road into Santry I've been beeped at by motorists thinking I'm not supposed to be there.

    Maybe the OP was equating the large road around there to a dual carriageway?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 Cookie_Monster
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    jd wrote: »
    I know. The OP mentioned cycling on a dual carriageway and that "two motorists honked at me". He then clarified it was the N1. So the question is where on the N1 was he cycling?
    What difference does it make, why do you need to know so badly?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,741 jd
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    What difference does it make, why do you need to know so badly?


    Not that it is of life changing significance or anything, but if it was the N1/M1 route, and it was a dual carriageway, he was probably on a motorway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 Fuinseog
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    jd wrote: »
    Where on the N1? Coming up to the Coolock Junction?

    further up towards town about 300 metres from where the motorway ended and close to a church on the left. there seems to be a narrow yellow line about two foot wide, which I assumed was a cycle track. this seems to start at the roundabout (coolock slip road), where it is a metre wide and gradually gets narrower.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,390 markpb
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    further up towards town about 500 metres from where the motorway ended. there seems to be a narrow yellow line about two foot wide, which I assumed was a cycle track. this seems to start at the roundabout (coolock slip road)and gradually get narrower.

    Do you mean here or here? You're perfectly entitled to cycle on both but I presume you mean the second one?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 Fuinseog
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    markpb wrote: »
    Do you mean here or here? You're perfectly entitled to cycle on both but I presume you mean the second one?

    I recognise the second one, but I think I join it further up. so the yellow line is a cycle track. my entitlements do not count for much if a motorist is going at speed, not realising that cyclists can be on the stretch of 'his' road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,741 jd
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    Fuinseog wrote: »
    further up towards town about 300 metres from where the motorway ended and close to a church on the left. there seems to be a narrow yellow line about two foot wide, which I assumed was a cycle track. this seems to start at the roundabout (coolock slip road), where it is a metre wide and gradually gets narrower.


    You're quite entitled to cycle there. (ie between Coolock/Santry Junction and Whitehall)


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    I recognise the second one, but I think I join it further up. so the yellow line is a cycle track. my entitlements do not count for much if a motorist is going at speed, not realising that cyclists can be on the stretch of 'his' road.

    Where are you travelling to and from? The yellow line is NOT a cycle lane.

    Just to be clear, if you pass this sign or one like it you are on a motorway and have gone too far:

    195264.JPG

    Likewise if you see these signs you've gone way too far:

    195266.JPG

    However, going this way is ok:

    195267.JPG

    PS: All images http://maps.google.com/ -- I don't think Google will mind in the interest of safety!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 Fuinseog
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    monument wrote: »
    Where are you travelling to and from? The yellow line is NOT a cycle lane.

    I also drive and can recognise when on the motorway (I am not permitted on motorways). I presume the yellow line is for break downs then, though it is not very broad.


    I was heading in towards town so it would be the opposite direction to your last photo.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 monument
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    I also drive and can recognise when on the motorway (I am not permitted on motorways). I presume the yellow line is for break downs then, though it is not very broad.

    That makes it very simple, you're allowed to cycle on all roads other than motorways.


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