Moving from Sky+ Multiroom to Freesat Setup ....

braftery

Hi All

I suspect this question may have been asked here many times before, but I could not find the thread so ...

I am considering changing my Sky+ Multiroom setup to a "Free to Air" setup, and am seeking advice on the equipment, etc.

The features I would like on the new system would ideally be;

1. Programme Guide
2. All the channels (Irish / UK / Free Satellite) on the system on 1 programme guide
3. Ability to record programmes
4. Ability to record one programme while watching another
5. Ability to pause and rewind live tv

To be able to do all this with one remote control and without any tricky button sequences.

In short to keep the control interface as close to the very simple and very clever sky interface.

Is there any receiver / combo system that can do this ?

Thank you in advance for any advice you might have

B

zg3409

In quick summary, no there is no box out there that will do all above.

However we are all waiting for a combo box, with twin tuner, to be launched suitable for the Irish market. We are hoping this will be done before October.

In the mean time you could go for a crappy combo box with single tuner, but only records one channel at a time, and then relegate this box to a bedroom if a better box becomes available.

Unfortunately the "Irish problem" is unique to Ireland so most manufacturers are not going out of their way to produce a special box for Ireland.

If your into computers/modificatons some linux twin tuner boxes can be encouraged to get close to what you want but you may need to work on it, and keep updating it. There are also PC based solutions.

None of them are as neat or as easy as Sky.

Some of the newer boxes may have the ability to record two programmes and watch a third, and 60X fast forward. If one does come on the market they will be 200+ each and probably more like 300+ with a decent hard drive for recording.

braftery

Thank you zg !

I just started to research this whole area this morning.

Can you explain the "Irish Problem" to me ?

Thanks again

zg3409

In the UK people have a choice of getting BBC from a ground based aerial or a satellite dish.

In Ireland we only have a choice of a ground based aerial for RTE and if we want BBC then we must use a dish (unless you live very close to the north or can see wales.)

So for a proper Free box to work it needs to combine an aerial and a dish. This is not the case in the UK and most countries. So we are looking for a box to be specially made for Ireland that has

1) TWO tuners for an aerial so we can say watch RTE1 while recording RTE2
2) Two tuners for Satellite so we can watch BBC1 while recording Channel 4
3) A 7 day TV guide combining the Irish terrestrials channels PLUS the satellite channels
4) Also we would like a box that automatically re-tunes satellite channels when one goes bust or moves places E.g. 101=RTE1 etc
5) Series link ability (works on Sky for RTE) but RTE are not Yet EVEN broadcasting series link information (and no recording box with series link ability)
6) We would also like the BBC interactive abilities such as red button/hidden channels etc.

These requirements are unique to Ireland. Even the terrestrial standard for broadcasting is different to the UK & NI. There are also legal problems. The BBC has copyright or some such on the "red button" features and auto tuning features of "freesat"

All these are not unsurmountable, hopefully by October a box that can do at least 80% of what a sky box does will be available.

braftery

Wow .. thank you for the very detailed reply ! The muddy waters are now a little clearer

I have to take my hat off to Sky, their user friendly front-end interface makes it very hard to unplug from them. Especially with family members that dont want to know about any complicated button pressing details.

Perhaps I should wait until later in the year ... and begurdgingly keep paying Mr Murdoch his monthly charges

zg3409

You can ring Sky and try haggle. Tell them you are going for Saorview/Freesat and that it's free per month etc..

to save some money, if you have multiroom, cancel it, reduce to just basic package etc.

cabledude

You are looking for the Holy Grail. As I was a month ago. And I'm still looking. Your can't have all you're looking for. You will need to prioritise. Is the one remote absolutely necessary. I thought it was. Now my six year old is able to switch between Soarview and Freesat no problem.

This is what I did.

Cancelled Sky.

Installed a wideband aerial in the attic and ran the feed into a distribution amp. So all the TV points in all the rooms were carrying Soarview.

So in the sitting room I put in a Vision set top box with PVR ability. 7 Day EPG and I bought a 16GB USB stick. Job done. I can now pause live tv record and all the stuff you can do with Sky. Box cost 80 euro. However to watch RTE 1 and record RTE 2 you will need a more expensive boy with 2 tuners.

That's the Irish channels covered. Not as much functionality as I had with Sky but, hey, I don't have the bill either.

Now for the Freesat. I already had the dish and two cables coming in from a quad LNB. These two were going into the main point which is in the sitting room so I left them as they were. I ran a further two cables. One to the kitchen and one to the master bedroom. I ran these down the existing conduit as the installer believed this was better than putting in a merging them with the Soarview cables. Something to do with record functionality? Whatever. He knows what he's talking about. Into the kitchen I put an old standard Sky box and connected it to the cable. Left the Sky+ boy in the sitting room and have to buy one further box for the master bed.

So now I can watch three different programmes in three different rooms. I can record Saorview and when I get around to buying a Freesat PVR ready box I'll be able to record the satellite. I did this all for €330. I will have to buy one more Freesat box around €100. Job done. I would highly recommend doing this. I had to prioritise what I wanted and find the cheapest way to do it.

braftery

Thank you cabledude !

I know I am looking for the perfect solution but if I didnt ask I woud never know if it was there or not !!

Great explanation and I really appreciate your time in posting.

I think my sutmbling block will be the fact that in order to be able to timeshift and perform record oneand watch another on all stations requires two separate setups ..as there is currently no machine that has 2 freesat tuners and 2 terristrial tuners.

Now thinking that I might wait until Saorsat starts ... if this will solve the 4 tuner requirement issue ?

Thanks again

zg3409

I already have saorsat setup at home. We all were hoping it would solve some of the issues. It looks as if TV3 and 3E will never be on Saorsat.

Also some boxes may have problems integrating the 7 day TV guide from Saorsat and Freesat as they are both sent differently.

However it may work out as the best solution as close to Sky+, assuming you can live without being easily able to pause/record TV3/3E.

I have combined, Saorsat, Saorview and FreeSat, to compare the options. Still waiting for the ideal box myself.

cabledude

braftery wrote: »

Thank you cabledude !

I know I am looking for the perfect solution but if I didnt ask I woud never know if it was there or not !!

Great explanation and I really appreciate your time in posting.

I think my sutmbling block will be the fact that in order to be able to timeshift and perform record oneand watch another on all stations requires two separate setups ..as there is currently no machine that has 2 freesat tuners and 2 terristrial tuners.

Now thinking that I might wait until Saorsat starts ... if this will solve the 4 tuner requirement issue ?

Thanks again

No problem you're welcome. I was in the same boat myself and I got a lot of help from all the crew here so I'm happy to pass on my experience.

braftery

I think we could live without TV3 and 3e .. i dont remember the last time i watched anything on either of those stations !

I have just been reading up more on Saorsat and see that RTE have decided not to use the Astra satellite .. which means another dish ... jeez how hard are they trying to make it for us !

steveon

braftery wrote: »

I think we could live without TV3 and 3e .. i dont remember the last time i watched anything on either of those stations !

I have just been reading up more on Saorsat and see that RTE have decided not to use the Astra satellite .. which means another dish ... jeez how hard are they trying to make it for us !

Saorsat is broadcasted on Eutelsat at 9east which is using a spot beam which is for Irelands use only, however many people along the welsh coast etc will prob be able to pick it up via use of a large dish of approx 1.2metres.

NewHillel

braftery wrote: »

I think we could live without TV3 and 3e .. i dont remember the last time i watched anything on either of those stations !

You mean you don't watch Vincent Browned? :eek:

cormacl

For over 3 years now, I've had a combined solution that gives me a PVR with DTT and satellite and also full 7-day EPG.

I use a Dreambox, specifically a DM8000. It cost me the best part of €1000 at the time. They are a little cheaper now and there are also some alternatives in the same category.

My setup has a built-in 3.5" 1Tb HDD, two built in S2 tuners giving me access to all the UK & German FTA SD&HD services. A single DVB-T tuner is installed on one of the two expansion slots for the Irish DTT services. In time, because of the spare slot, I will be able to install an extra DTT tuner when more of the Irish DTT services move to HD. Otherwise there will be conflicts with DTT recordings and live viewing of services etc.

I have a single EPG made up from Irish and UK services.. seamless and in the exact order I want.

The 7-day EPG for DTT comes as standard over the air with the services. I'm able to get 7-day EPG for the UK FTA satellite services using the popular crossover EPG plugin which can source data from the Internet or even from Sky's own EPG.

There is no series link or auto-magic tuning.. but in fairness, its not like this re-tuning is required all the time. The lack of series link requires a bit more work but I've found most stuff tends to broadcast at the same times and where it tends to fluctuate, I just counter this be lengthening the lead-in and out times for a timed event.

I also use the receiver as a media player for ripped DVDs, HD footage from our video camera etc.. so as well as the usual PVR features, we can call up loads of kids stuff when required.. no messing with or losing DVDs. Of course Apple TVs and what-not can no fill this void quite well also.

There are other receivers, which use the same Linux OS and Enigma2 receiver software as the dreambox.

The Vu+ range is the most popular AFAIK. Some of these have 2 satellite tuners and its been possible to get some USB DTT tuners to work with them. They also have a model with 3 tuner slots which gives decent flexibility in catering for satellite and terrestrial combinations.

They are all networked receivers and have web interfaces to them so you can access recordings from different parts of your home network if desired. I can set up timers on mine remotely using a free Android app.

The overall issue with these solutions is that they are not plug and play and require some effort to setup.
This can be a lot for some, especially if you are not used to Linux.

But once you're there, its nice and easy to use with a high WAF.

I know that people are hoping for true Freesat/terrestrial combos to arrive. However if this ever happens, I strongly doubt that they will have a seamless EPG. You will probably find that they toggle from terrestrial (Freeview) to/from Freesat mode. This is because the Freesat mode is strongly controlling channel order and not going to give in to a use case where you can just sprinkle DTT services where you see fit. The Freesat members have paid for their slots and would never give up that privilege. A manufacturer that deviates from this (as far as I can tell) would be violating the Freesat T&C. But maybe a compromise can be met or the toggling is made very easy to use to a point where it doesn't bother people.

Chrizfitz

Is this not a cheap combo receiver that has saorview and freesat?

zg3409

Chrizfitz wrote: »

Is this not a cheap combo receiver that has saorview and freesat?

It probably only has a single terrestrial and satellite tuner, which means if recording from Sat, you need to watch the same Sat channel or terrestrial etc.

It does seem to have some good features, not quite the same as a Sky+HD with susbscription.

It would be acceptable to some especially if you had a second one in a second room for when fights break out and you need watch one channel while recording another.

Chrizfitz

zg3409 wrote: »

It probably only has a single terrestrial and satellite tuner, which means if recording from Sat, you need to watch the same Sat channel or terrestrial etc.

"With this box you can record 2 Channels at the one time"
I am not selling this box or anyhting just googled saorview and freesat, and I don't know if that is 1 saorview and 1 freesat at a time. But might come in handy to someone...

zg3409

Chrizfitz wrote: »

"With this box you can record 2 Channels at the one time"
I am not selling this box or anyhting just googled saorview and freesat, and I don't know if that is 1 saorview and 1 freesat at a time. But might come in handy to someone...

Yes, it seems to be able to do that. However I still assume it has only 1 terrestrial & 1 sat tuner (unlike the Sky+ box) which means that you can

1) Watch 1 terrestrial while recording sat
2) Watch 1 sat while recording terrestrial
3) Record 1 ter and 1 sat while watching either one.
4) Record 2 sat ONLY if on same transponder
5) Record 2 Terrestrial if only on same mux (currently there is only 1 mux but there will be two)

So it's still a single tuner for each. It's messy for those used to Sky.

It still is best described as a PVR combo box, which will not do the same as a Sky box.

This thread is about ditching a Sky box and getting nearest equivalent. It's still a big step up for those in 4/3/2 channel land. If it could be numbered the same as Sky it would be fine for TV's in bedrooms etc.