Car Rental and Age limits

Cookie_Monster

Why are car rental companies allowed discriminate against you based on your age?

I'm 27 and two weeks ago returned to Ireland for the week. Hertz wouldn't give me the car I wanted and had reserved online without issues citing the fact that I supposedly have to be 30, so I got some POS Leon instead.

Despite having the reservation on their system for 6 weeks they made no effort to alert me to this, nor was it made clear while booking or in the confirmation emails. It is buried in the depths of their T&Cs, however the fact that age based discrimination is illegal kinda overrides this anyway...

I can of course understand them placing restrictions on classes based on experience or minimum time you've had your licence but how does age factor into it at all, will I magically become a better and safer driver the day I turn 30:rolleyes:

And please don't come up with the old line that since they don't know your experience your age is indicative cos that's bollox.

irelandspurs

What car did you try to rent?I'd never rent with hertz to expensive.

Cookie_Monster

Just an A4, not like it's particularly expensive or high performance...

irelandspurs

Thought at 27 they would of let you,more like they had given it out and was looking for an excuse.

Tea 1000

If it makes you feel any better, Vettel can't rent a car at all from some companies in some countries!!!

robbie_998

I thought the rental age was 25 for insurance ?

but you could take a car younger with a full license but get your own insurance ?

Ardennes1944

Its usually 21-24 year olds can rent small and economy cars but pay a daily supplement. (€30 a day in most countries) and 25+ year olds just pay the normal rate.

whippet

it depends on the rental company of course, I remember trying to rent out an E-Class for a weekend of a mates wedding (I was charged with having to ferry relations between airports and hotels etc) ... I was 28 at the time and all but one company wouldn't rent it to me. ... I think it was Dan Dooley by the airport who I got the car from eventually

Cookie_Monster

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Its usually 21-24 year olds can rent small and economy cars but pay a daily supplement. (€30 a day in most countries) and 25+ year olds just pay the normal rate.

25 in nearly every other country to rent the class, but Ireland is special for some reason...

Wolverine_1999

I went to rent a car in Germany when I was 23, they gave me a convertible because it was in the same class as the small cars. There is also no daily "supplement" because of your age.. either you can drive or you can't, depending on how many years you've had your license.

I couldn't even get insured full time on any kind of convertible in Ireland at the time, and it was only until a few years later that they would even consider it..

They must think in Germany that other countries also teach people how to drive properly which is far from the case in Ireland..

Ireland does do one thing right though - people from Spain can't rent any car here until they are 30. (The rental companies I looked at anyway..). Which makes sense since they are definitely the worst drivers in Europe... (although Belgium isn't far off!)

MarcusFenix

All the stories are fine lads but this is bollix. I travel for work, currently have a Nissan juke in ermany on a 6 month rental, not
Long back from us where I had a mustang and now they won't give me a fiesta in Ireland cos I'm 24. Where does the law stand on this? I need the car whn I'm back and up till nOw I have been able to talk my way into getting it.

kaahooters

the law has nothing to do with this issue, its company policy. (worked at hertz for years)

the main reason that the age limity on the car you wanted in ireland is 30, is because the hertz location at the airport is a licencee, and can do what they want.

now, you ask why age factors into this, simply because the insurance that the company gets dictates what they can do, if you want to go the age discrimination route you have to sue the insurance company, not hertz, it is in the t&c on the website, and thats all they have to do. it is not there responsibility to contact you if you dont read the t&cs.

rental company dosent really care about your experance, the general rule with them is over 25 years old, clean licence (no points) and held a full licence for 1 year from passing your test, and if you do have points on your licence, you have to tell the branch, if there's an accident and you haven't givne the info they need, your liable.

now, if you want to take a car without insurance, its massivly more expensive, the branch typically has to converse with the insurance company on the day of pickup, and the branch can refuse to rent you a car without taking there insurance.
complaining about one countries policy's and another is, quite frankly, moronic,different country, different laws.

get mad all you want about it, flame me for posting this, but, renting a car is not as easy as it should be, and probley never will.

shop around when you want to rent a car, always call reservations to see if you cna get a discount, and always take a refrence number for the quote, and let the agents run through the script, itll go faster if ya do.=

poker--addict

HI GUYS,

I have huge issues with this in ireland - i am 22 so still cant find a company i can rent from here.

I am also trying to get insurance..the country just screws young lads left right and centre.

The big issue here is i can take the crap for a few years, but where is the line. Lately more and more places are loading up fees on 30year olds.

What next 35? maybe when your 40 you can rent an a4??

Hell once you hit 55 they start loading you for being too old!!

Time to boycott these places.:mad:

MarcusFenix

kaahooters wrote: »

the law has nothing to do with this issue, its company policy. (worked at hertz for years)

the main reason that the age limity on the car you wanted in ireland is 30, is because the hertz location at the airport is a licencee, and can do what they want.

now, you ask why age factors into this, simply because the insurance that the company gets dictates what they can do, if you want to go the age discrimination route you have to sue the insurance company, not hertz, it is in the t&c on the website, and thats all they have to do. it is not there responsibility to contact you if you dont read the t&cs.

rental company dosent really care about your experance, the general rule with them is over 25 years old, clean licence (no points) and held a full licence for 1 year from passing your test, and if you do have points on your licence, you have to tell the branch, if there's an accident and you haven't givne the info they need, your liable.

now, if you want to take a car without insurance, its massivly more expensive, the branch typically has to converse with the insurance company on the day of pickup, and the branch can refuse to rent you a car without taking there insurance.
complaining about one countries policy's and another is, quite frankly, moronic,different country, different laws.

get mad all you want about it, flame me for posting this, but, renting a car is not as easy as it should be, and probley never will.

shop around when you want to rent a car, always call reservations to see if you cna get a discount, and always take a refrence number for the quote, and let the agents run through the script, itll go faster if ya do.=

Either way people are being refused a service for absolutely no other reason than their age, me included. This cannot be legal surely? And why can't they just charge an excess for the service? By the way, I have a full license 3.5 years now and someone who has a license 1 year but happens to be one year older than me(6 months at this stage) can get a car ? FFS, there isn't one element of society in this country which escapes having an absolutely stupid policy in regard to something, mostly to do with an opiinon held by some higher up somewhere.

kaahooters

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Either way people are being refused a service for absolutely no other reason than their age, me included. This cannot be legal surely? And why can't they just charge an excess for the service? By the way, I have a full license 3.5 years now and someone who has a license 1 year but happens to be one year older than me(6 months at this stage) can get a car ? FFS, there isn't one element of society in this country which escapes having an absolutely stupid policy in regard to something, mostly to do with an opiinon held by some higher up somewhere.

there not refusing on your age, there just limiting your options, which isnt illegal.

they opinion is not held by a "higher up" its held by the insurance companies, from statistic and such, the same people that will charge a 22yo male 2k for insurance where a 30yo will get charged 500.

the younger you are, the more likley you are to crash. the bigger the car ,engin, the more likley you are to flog it, lose control and crash, ect ect ect, there bs reasons to charge you more, but there legal, and universally (mostly) used. (there opinion not mine)

MarcusFenix

kaahooters wrote: »

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Either way people are being refused a service for absolutely no other reason than their age, me included. This cannot be legal surely? And why can't they just charge an excess for the service? By the way, I have a full license 3.5 years now and someone who has a license 1 year but happens to be one year older than me(6 months at this stage) can get a car ? FFS, there isn't one element of society in this country which escapes having an absolutely stupid policy in regard to something, mostly to do with an opiinon held by some higher up somewhere.

there not refusing on your age, there just limiting your options, which isnt illegal.

they opinion is not held by a "higher up" its held by the insurance companies, from statistic and such, the same people that will charge a 22yo male 2k for insurance where a 30yo will get charged 500.

the younger you are, the more likley you are to crash. the bigger the car ,engin, the more likley you are to flog it, lose control and crash, ect ect ect, there bs reasons to charge you more, but there legal, and universally (mostly) used. (there opinion not mine)

By the way I AM being refused a service, Rey said that from 11th April the policy had changed and only because the company ha booked it before this that they would give me the car but I wouldn't get one again until i'm 25. That is refusal in my books. The higher up I am referring to is the higher up in insurance company, same as public servants etc. anyway, majority of cars rented here are foreign nationals, why are they using Irish statistics? It's a ridiculous practice and tbh I would live to see some I these companies fail, might wake them up a bit and make rem realize in this day an age they can't be so selective in who they will provide a service to.

poker--addict

kaahooters wrote: »

the younger you are, the more likley you are to crash. the bigger the car ,engin, the more likley you are to flog it, lose control and crash, ect ect ect, there bs reasons to charge you more, but there legal, and universally (mostly) used. (there opinion not mine)

The point is now they are saying at 25 your still not capable of driving an A4!!

Our man in Havana

Soon you will need a pension book to rent from some places.

Anan1

poker--addict wrote: »

The point is now they are saying at 25 your still not capable of driving an A4!!

Statistically speaking, a 25 year old is a higher risk than a 30 year old. Their car their rules, no?

Marcusm

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Either way people are being refused a service for absolutely no other reason than their age, me included. This cannot be legal surely? And why can't they just charge an excess for the service? By the way, I have a full license 3.5 years now and someone who has a license 1 year but happens to be one year older than me(6 months at this stage) can get a car ? FFS, there isn't one element of society in this country which escapes having an absolutely stupid policy in regard to something, mostly to do with an opiinon held by some higher up somewhere.

Why can't they choose to refuse you a service? They do not operate a monopoly nor do they have significant licensing/regulation restrictions to control competition. Beyond that point, and with limited exclusions,it is a free market fr them to choose their customer base. Surely someone must rent to under 25s?

Our man in Havana

The only thing I have only ever seen in Ireland is the need to have your own insurance when renting. What if you don't live in Ireland?

MarcusFenix

Marcusm wrote: »

Why can't they choose to refuse you a service? They do not operate a monopoly nor do they have significant licensing/regulation restrictions to control competition. Beyond that point, and with limited exclusions,it is a free market fr them to choose their customer base. Surely someone must rent to under 25s?

Ah ffs they can't possibly just pick an age and say below that age you are incompetent. In that case where does it stop? Im sure there is an age bracket between 35-55 where there is statistically less accidents, why not just rent to these people? It can be excused all you want with bs about "their car, their rules" but to blankly refuse a service to someone with a full license and therefore legally entitled to drive on Irish roads because of nothing other than age is a disgrace!

Anan1

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Ah ffs they can't possibly just pick an age and say below that age you are incompetent.

Why not?

MarcusFenix wrote: »

In that case where does it stop? Im sure there is an age bracket between 35-55 where there is statistically less accidents, why not just rent to these people?

Isn't that for them to decide?

MarcusFenix wrote: »

It can be excused all you want with bs about "their car, their rules" but to blankly refuse a service to someone with a full license and therefore legally entitled to drive on Irish roads because of nothing other than age is a disgrace!

Why is it a disgrace?

coylemj

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The only thing I have only ever seen in Ireland is the need to have your own insurance when renting. What if you don't live in Ireland?

Come again? How do Americans or Europeans rent cars in this counttry if that's the case?

Renting a car with your own insurance is called a 'replacement car' and is typically rented from a garage on production of your own insurance cert.

If you don't live in Ireland, you rent from Hertz/Avis/Europcar etc. with your home driving licence and you're covered by their insurance.

keithclancy

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

I went to rent a car in Germany when I was 23, they gave me a convertible because it was in the same class as the small cars. There is also no daily "supplement" because of your age.. either you can drive or you can't, depending on how many years you've had your license.

I couldn't even get insured full time on any kind of convertible in Ireland at the time, and it was only until a few years later that they would even consider it..

They must think in Germany that other countries also teach people how to drive properly which is far from the case in Ireland..

Ireland does do one thing right though - people from Spain can't rent any car here until they are 30. (The rental companies I looked at anyway..). Which makes sense since they are definitely the worst drivers in Europe... (although Belgium isn't far off!)

Very much depends on the Rental station i've found, some are 25, others are 27, minimum is usually 25 these days in Germany though and depends on the class your renting:

http://www.hertz.de/rentacar/customersupport/index.jsp?targetPage=faqsRightNow.jsp&leftNavUserSelection=globNav_9_1

Mindestalter für die Anmietung eines Fahrzeuges

Das Mindestalter für private Anmietungen in Deutschland beträgt für alle Fahrzeug-Gruppen 25 Jahre mit Ausnahme.

Minimum age for renting a vehicle;

The minimum age for private rentals in Germany for all Vehicle groups is 25 years.

Unless of course its for work, where work covers you. Still need to check though.

MarcusFenix

Well they can't do that as it is discrimination.
Why should it be for them to decide? If they want to open a car rental service in ireland they should have to allow every legal person to avail of the service.
It's disgraceful because I've never crashed a car once, not once, and I know many over 25's who have crashed multiple, yet they will be given a car and I will be refused!?!. The age restriction is a disgrace.

You Anan1 must be over 25 and or not need to use a rental in Ireland. I however am unlucky enough to be under 25 and need to use the service for work. I'm sure you would understand if you were in my situation.

The part that drives me mad is that there is a point blank refusal, not a limit or an excess but refusal!

Our man in Havana

coylemj wrote: »

Come again? How do Americans or Europeans rent cars in this counttry if that's the case?

Renting a car with your own insurance is called a 'replacement car' and is typically rented from a garage on production of your own insurance cert.

If you don't live in Ireland, you rent from Hertz/Avis/Europcar etc. with your home driving licence and you're covered by their insurance.

Anytime I have tried renting a car in Ireland the first question asked is "Do you have your own insurance?" This was from rental companies and nothing to do with replacement cars.

Anan1

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Well they can't do that as it is discrimination.
Why should it be for them to decide? If they want to open a car rental service in ireland they should have to allow every legal person to avail of the service.
It's disgraceful because I've never crashed a car once, not once, and I know many over 25's who have crashed multiple, yet they will be given a car and I will be refused!?!. The age restriction is a disgrace.

You Anan1 must be over 25 and or not need to use a rental in Ireland. I however am unlucky enough to be under 25 and need to use the service for work. I'm sure you would understand if you were in my situation.

The part that drives me mad is that there is a point blank refusal, not a limit or an excess but refusal!

We can all understand why it doesn't suit you. The bit you haven't explained is why the car rental company should be forced to suit you.

keithclancy

MarcusFenix wrote: »

You Anan1 must be over 25 and or not need to use a rental in Ireland. I however am unlucky enough to be under 25 and need to use the service for work. I'm sure you would understand if you were in my situation.

If its for work then work Insurance should cover you, i'd never drive on my own insurance for work.

MarcusFenix

Anan1 wrote: »

We can all understand why it doesn't suit you. The bit you haven't explained is why the car rental company should be forced to suit you.

Should suit me? What legal grounds do they have to refuse me? I have a full license with no points for 3 and a half years? Why shouldn't I be able to get a car?

@keithclancy, I have asked work and they basically said that their cover only counts if the car company are covered initially or something. I'll be getting a look at the official policy soon though.

Another thing I have mentioned already, I have rented in numerous countries around Europe and never once was my age an issue, just in this place which now means I dread coming back, good ole Ireland!

keithclancy

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Should suit me? What legal grounds do they have to refuse me? I have a full license with no points for 3 and a half years? Why shouldn't I be able to get a car?

http://www.skoool.ie/asktheexpert/faq.asp?id=798&subjectid=5

Q. » Invitation to treat refers to what?

A. » This is a term found in the law of contract.

An invitation to treat is simply an invitation to make an offer which can be accepted or rejected by an offeree.
A coat displayed in a shop window merely constitutes an invitation to come into the shop to make an offer for the coat which can be accepted or rejected.

Anan1

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Should suit me? What legal grounds do they have to refuse me? I have a full license with no points for 3 and a half years? Why shouldn't I be able to get a car?

Because they don't want to rent their car to a 24 year old.

MarcusFenix

I've already addressed that fact. They shouldn't be renting to the public if they aren't willing to allow everyone who can legally drive in Ireland to rent from them. Simple as, I can't see how anyone could think otherwise

Marcusm

MarcusFenix wrote: »

I've already addressed that fact. They shouldn't be renting to the public if they aren't willing to allow everyone who can legally drive in Ireland to rent from them. Simple as, I can't see how anyone could think otherwise

There seem to be quite a few of us who can understand that they can choose their customers. Is it any different from signs stating "Management reserves the right to refuse admission/service". I can understand where you're coming from but simply stamping your feet and repeating the same words over and over is not likely to get you anywhere. Can you not Find another service provider? Would you have the sae attitude towards a bank who refused a loan?

coylemj

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Anytime I have tried renting a car in Ireland the first question asked is "Do you have your own insurance?" This was from rental companies and nothing to do with replacement cars.

Was that the major rental companies or some local crowd? I have never been asked that question, either by Hertz or Europcar which I have dealt with in the last couple of years. Both were in France by the way, I have never rented from a major rental co. in Ireland, only replacement cars from local garages with my own insurance obviously, that being a cheaper option than car rental once you have a policy of your own.

Mr. Presentable

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Should suit me? What legal grounds do they have to refuse me?

They don't need legal grounds to refuse. You have no "legal" entitlement to rent a car.

It's their car they can do as they wish with it. A lad with a licence for three years could well have only six months actual driving behind him.

Anan1

MarcusFenix wrote: »

I've already addressed that fact. They shouldn't be renting to the public if they aren't willing to allow everyone who can legally drive in Ireland to rent from them.

For the umpteenth time, why not? Simply put, what gives you the right to tell someone else how to run their business?

MarcusFenix

Ok I can see when I'm fighting a losing battle, I'm not in a position to state legal facts but I know that I feel discriminated against due to my age and it's only in this hellhole. I don't think a bank can say that they are refusing someone a loan for age alone, if someone meets all the criteria financially like?

Anan1

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Ok I can see when I'm fighting a losing battle, I'm not in a position to state legal facts but I know that I feel discriminated against due to my age and it's only in this hellhole. I don't think a bank can say that they are refusing someone a loan for age alone, if someone meets all the criteria financially like?

But you don't meet all the criteria. It's all about risk/reward ratios, and 24 year old men represent an elevated risk. It's nothing personal, and the good news is that you're not getting any younger.;)

keithclancy

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Ok I can see when I'm fighting a losing battle, I'm not in a position to state legal facts but I know that I feel discriminated against due to my age and it's only in this hellhole. I don't think a bank can say that they are refusing someone a loan for age alone, if someone meets all the criteria financially like?

http://mortgagebrokersireland.com/mortgageguide.htm

You can repay a mortgage over any period between 10 and 40 years, provided the mortgage is repaid before age 70.

MarcusFenix

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/equality_authority.html

There are two distinct pieces of legislation in place in Ireland which set out important rights for people and specifically outlaw discrimination when it occurs. The Employment Equality Acts 1998-2011 and the Equal Status Acts 2000-2011 outlaw discrimination in employment, vocational training, advertising, collective agreements, the provision of goods and services. Specifically, goods and services include professional or trade services; health services; access to accommodation and education; facilities for banking, transport and cultural activities.

Under the equality legislation discrimination based on any one of 9 distinct grounds is unlawful. These grounds are:

Gender
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age (does not apply to a person under 16)
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller community.

I think this is "on my side"

poker--addict

Anan1 wrote: »

Statistically speaking, a 25 year old is a higher risk than a 30 year old. Their car their rules, no?

Yes Anan we accept they have the right to do this, because they already do it!

But your attitude is wrong mate. I could also say a 35 year old is less risk then a 30 year old. Imagine your 30 and they say thanks but no thanks or give you a surcharge.

A good business would allow cars to be rented to 17 years olds! Just with a massive levy which makes it worth their while.

Ever been to UAE? They are crazy on the road, and thats a stat. What if they said sorry we can not rent to arabs???!!!!!!They would be sued.

keithclancy

poker--addict wrote: »

Yes Anan we accept they have the right to do this, because they already do it!

I know someone that couldn't rent a car at 37 simply because they didn't have their license over a year ? They could drive fine though.

MarcusFenix

keithclancy wrote: »

I know someone that couldn't rent a car at 37 simply because they didn't have their license over a year ? They could drive fine though.

No pity, that's a better reason to refuse and I couldn't have any complaints, well I could actually as I would be annoyed after getting my license to not be able to use it. But still I suppose that's a better way of doing it

keithclancy

MarcusFenix wrote: »

No pity, that's a better reason to refuse and I couldn't have any complaints, well I could actually as I would be annoyed after getting my license to not be able to use it. But still I suppose that's a better way of doing it

That person has been driving for 15 years, US License, no exchange program.
Rules are rules, just read them and don't book if you can't follow them.

Its a private business, their not under any obligation to rent to you and they've made that clear up front.

MarcusFenix

Well why do they keep accepting bookings from me? (an Avis preferred customer) and then when I get to the counter give me a load of crap about a recent policy change and then talk to what I can only assume is a manager on the phone and approve it? It's a joke! And also refer to my post a few posts back with the link.

markpb

MarcusFenix wrote: »

No pity, that's a better reason to refuse and I couldn't have any complaints, well I could actually as I would be annoyed after getting my license to not be able to use it. But still I suppose that's a better way of doing it

Is it really? Having a license is no indication of driving experience - countless people had their provisional for years before sitting the test. I had mine for seven years before I actually used it.

FWIW I rented several cars from Enterprise in Ireland this year and I was never asked for (nor do I have) insurance. Maybe other rental company's have different requirements.

MarcusFenix

markpb wrote: »

Is it really? Having a license is no indication of driving experience - countless people had their provisional for years before sitting the test. I had mine for seven years before I actually used it.

FWIW I rented several cars from Enterprise in Ireland this year and I was never asked for (nor do I have) insurance. Maybe other rental company's have different requirements.

Yes it is, it's the legal requirement to drive on Irish roads, age is no indication of experience driving but no. of years with a license is, taken individually and independantly of course.

Anan1

poker--addict wrote: »

A good business would allow cars to be rented to 17 years olds! Just with a massive levy which makes it worth their while.

Good for who?:D

C.D.

Haven't read the whole thread, but to give you a comparison I couldn't get anything bigger than a focus in Ireland as I am a 25 year old guy. Prices were as high as €50 per day.

In the US on business and I'm the designated driver. Brand new Chevrolet Traverse (8 seater monster of an SUV), 3.6 straight 6 putting out ~280bhp and ~8 seconds to 100km/h. $50 (~€40) a day. Interesting to drive, doesn't handle well but some good pull even with 8 passengers and shopping. Another guy has a Ford Mustang for a little bit more and he is 26.

R.O.R

MarcusFenix wrote: »

Well why do they keep accepting bookings from me? (an Avis preferred customer) and then when I get to the counter give me a load of crap about a recent policy change and then talk to what I can only assume is a manager on the phone and approve it? It's a joke! And also refer to my post a few posts back with the link.

The Avis franchise in Ireland has recently changed ownership (in March). It's possible they are honouring bookings made before the change of owners (and insurance company).

I used to have to rent from Budget (I think) in the UK when I was younger, paying normal retail rates and underage surcharges, despite working for Hertz at the time and having a licence for 5 years. Them's the rules and if you don't like it, take it to the equality authority.