Blackhorse

Steve2007

Hello all. Hopefully someone can advise. 12 months ago I purchased a used motorbike in Northern Ireland. A short time later I sold it on to a bike shop here in the South, who in turn retailed it on to a customer. Ok, all is good so far. Yesterday I received a call from the shop saying that they have now just found that there is finance owing on the bike. And this dept is with Blackhorse Finance in UK. Seemingly its outstanding for several years and taken out by whoever owned the bike at that time! The shop want to return the bike to me, they want a full refund and their costs covered. Ie: all expenses that they have had with transportation, servicing etc.:eek::eek: What am I to do?:(

Jimbob 83

This is exactly why finance should be set to the driver and not the vehicle

Steve2007

Steve2007 wrote: »

........... What am I to do?:(

Nothing, not your problem.

Steve2007

Hey Roverjames, thanks for your reply. The shop seem to think that it is my problem to sort. They say that they are entitled to wash their hands of it!

Homer

Caveat Emptor on the shops part as long as you didn't willingly sell it to them knowing there was finance outstanding. Ignore them.

cyrusdvirus

Buyer beware....

Once you didn't willingly and knowingly defraud them they can say what they want, and try what they want but it's their problem, not yours.

Steve2007

Steve2007 wrote: »

Hey Roverjames, thanks for your reply. The shop seem to think that it is my problem to sort. They say that they are entitled to wash their hands of it!

They may or may not be entitled to wash there hands of it, I doubt they are though as they are a business, anyway, that's between them and whoever bought it off them, nothing at all to do with you
Tell them to refrain from harassing you about it.

Henry Ford III

Agreed.

If you unwittingly (albeit unwisely) bought the bike with finance attached, you were at risk of losing it during your tenure of "ownership".

When that ended so did any interest you had in the bike, including the finance.

The bike shop know they should have checked out the title. They didn't so it's their lookout.

Steve2007

Ok, so seeing as they are a business, then the problem lies with the shop, because they failed to identify that there was finance owing when they purchased the bike. So do Blackhorse have any right to seize/snatch the bike from the shop or their customer here in Ireland? It would seem that the finance is outstanding for 4 years now. Is there a time-frame in which Blackhorse should have dealt with this matter?

Henry Ford III

Steve2007 wrote: »

Ok, so seeing as they are a business, then the problem lies with the shop, because they failed to identify that there was finance owing when they purchased the bike. So do Blackhorse have any right to seize/snatch the bike from the shop or their customer here in Ireland? It would seem that the finance is outstanding for 4 years now. Is there a time-frame in which Blackhorse should have dealt with this matter?

If they still own the goods of course they can seek to recover them.

mickdw

Id say if the finance company found that the bike was exported from the uk, they would write off the loss unless it was a fairly expensive bike.
Id say the bike shop didnt do any finance checks either at any stage but perhaps the new owner looked up its history and found the problem.
Basically, you were fooled when you bought it, bike shop was fooled when they bought it. You were lucky in that you got out of the bike without loss. The dealer wont be so lucky and as such given that they are a professional dealer, they are supposed to know what to look out for and do all the required checks.
I would be apologetic to a degree when talking to the dealer as you are not some scum bag that ripped them off on purpose however tell them in no uncertain terms that you will not be taking any further action in regard to the deal and as far as you are concerned, the bike is theirs.

Chuck_Norris

Just for the flip side, I'd love to know how the bike shop are dealing with the person who has since bought the bike?

As in, have they offered/given a full refund on it?

Steve2007

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If they still own the goods of course they can seek to recover them.

Ok, I know that Blackhorse would have had a contract with the guy in NI who took out the finance package. Does this however allow them to grab & go with the bike, several owners and four years later? Can Blackhorse finance or an agent on their behalf, just come into Ireland and snatch the bike. Would they have to go into the courts and obtain a judgement permitting them to do so? The reason i'm asking is because the Shop are crying the poor mouth about it, & suggesting that this is what will happen!

kildare.17hmr

Yea this could happen and then the shop will be liable to repay the new "owner" thats why they are chancing their arm with you and chancing their arm is all they are doing.

As above its not your problem and i would tell them that in no uncertain terms and not entertain any further conversation on the matter.

Let us know how it goes!

Marcusm

Blackhorse is part of Lloyds Banking Group and thereby less likely to employ underhand tactics (don't scream at me but it's true). Provided you had no knowledge of the finance nor intent to defraud, it should not be your issue. I have recently had some family who gad a similar issue (vin rather than finance related) with a dealer substantially post purchase.

Send him a letter stating that you sold in good faith without knowledge if any outstanding finance and that if you hear from them again, you will consider it harrassment and report as such.

The flabbergasting thing is that they'd sold it on before realising. If you don't know when you buy, you don't want to find out later.

Steve2007

Hey iv just received an email from the shop stating that they are returning the bike to me at the weekend and that they expect a full refund for the amount they paid me for the bike last year, plus €450 expenses!:eek::eek: I told them only yesterday that I would contact Blackhorse about the matter! Pushy or what :rolleyes:

tony.aspergers

Get yourself a good solicitor and get him onto that bike shop. And inform the bike shop that unless they desist in harassing you in this matter, you will have no choice but to start publishing their details all over the web, which will cost that bike shop their business in the long run!

kildare.17hmr

Op copy and paste that e mail leaving out yours and their details

Steve2007

I feel like copying pasting and posting their email with just my details removed. :D I cant believe how pushy they are being.

Marcusm

OP

I certainly would not accept redelivery of the bike and I would not have thought that it was in your interest (as you do not have possession of nor the Irish registration document) to be discussing with Blackhorse. It might be worth having a conversation with the NI bike shop or doing a HPI check to establish what type of finance was available. It seems that some types of finance (HP) can give an innocent purchaser such as you good title to the bike.

All that said, I would stay away from the bike.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=40426250

corktina

you can't accept the bike if they are saying it belongs to Black Horse. It must go back to them, or they come to some arrngement with them.

Not your problem if you did it in good faith. They've ben caught the same as you

Steve2007

Marcusm wrote: »

OP

I certainly would not accept redelivery of the bike and I would not have thought that it was in your interest (as you do not have possession of nor the Irish registration document) to be discussing with Blackhorse. It might be worth having a conversation with the NI bike shop or doing a HPI check to establish what type of finance was available. It seems that some types of finance (HP) can give an innocent purchaser such as you good title to the bike.

All that said, I would stay away from the bike.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=40426250

Yes I now realize that I should stay away from both the bike and Blackhorse. I was trying my best to resolve this for the shop! They can resolve it any way they like now. Maybe they shouldn't have skimped on the €30 odd it would have cost them to HPI the bike when they were buying it. ;)

Henry Ford III

Steve2007 wrote: »

Yes I now realize that I should stay away from both the bike and Blackhorse. I was trying my best to resolve this for the shop! They can resolve it any way they like now. Maybe they shouldn't have skimped on the €30 odd it would have cost them to HPI the bike when they were buying it. ;)

Nor should you!

Steve2007

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Nor should you!

Oh yes I agree, it was an oversight on my behalf. However i'm not insisting in offloading it back to the guy from whom I purchased it. If I still owned the bike I would come to some arrangement with Blackhorse! I feel that the shop who now own the bike should be doing this instead of trying to lean on me!

Owen

Most main dealers now have a policy to HPI everything coming in the door to prevent this situation from cropping up. If this shop didn't have such a policy in place, it's their bad luck.

Their sending you a letter is bravado on their part, go to a Solicitor and ask them to draft you a letter to mail them. Should cost about 70 euro, and will stop everything dead in its tracks and release your conscience.

Henry Ford III

Steve2007 wrote: »

Oh yes I agree, it was an oversight on my behalf. However i'm not insisting in offloading it back to the guy from whom I purchased it. If I still owned the bike I would come to some arrangement with Blackhorse! I feel that the shop who now own the bike should be doing this instead of trying to lean on me!

The original seller and you have no obligation to take the bike back. Private sellers.

The shop is different however.

Buffman

Steve2007 wrote: »

Hey iv just received an email from the shop stating that they are returning the bike to me at the weekend and that they expect a full refund for the amount they paid me for the bike last year, plus €450 expenses!

Reply to them saying you will not permit entry onto your property, and trespassers will be prosecuted. You will also not be responsible for any vehicles left outside your property.

Then I'd suggest you cut communications with them. If they show up on your doorstep, ask them to leave. If they don't, call the guards.

Steve2007 wrote: »

I told them only yesterday that I would contact Blackhorse about the matter!

Don't contact anyone, as others have said, it's not your problem.

kildare.17hmr

Anymore news on this OP?