Groupset Brands

busyliving

Hey all,

I've just been looking at some groupsets online and just have a quick question...

Which is better, Campagnolo Record(2008) or Shimano Ultrgra(2011)

...

Also a quick question on behalves of a friend...

Can you mix and match a groupset...

His example is Campac shifters, with Shimano Break Calipers and/or derailers?

Thought it was a good question

Lumen

Which is better, steak or venison?

ednwireland

honestly i've only ridden with shimano but seeing people ride cant see much difference in useability between any of them

DirkVoodoo

You click, they shift.

Any performance difference is going to be down to your legs.

Assuming they are both 10 speed, go with whichever you prefer the feel of, hood shape and lever action are all that matter.

I'm riding 105 at the moment, it performs perfectly but oh, how I miss my campag levers.

There are some good deals online for Athena groupsets, or at least there were.

Seweryn

busyliving wrote: »

Which is better, Campagnolo Record(2008) or Shimano Ultrgra(2011)

Sram is better .

C3PO

Seweryn wrote: »

Sram is better .

I was betting on the 3rd reply before we got this one ...... I was one out!

Personally I'd go with the Campag but Ultegra will be great too! Alfa Romeo or Honda?

busyliving

RPL1 wrote: »

I was betting on the 3rd reply before we got this one ...... I was one out!

Personally I'd go with the Campag but Ultegra will be great too! Alfa Romeo or Honda?

Alfa Romeo break down a lot don't they, but my, aren't they sexy

AstraMonti

busyliving wrote: »

Alfa Romeo break down a lot don't they, but my, aren't they sexy

Yes.. in the 80s! It's been 30years now, let's get over it :rolleyes:

As for the groupsets, buy whatever feels better in your hands. I love campag feel, I can do with shimano but I don't like Sram levers and shifting at all.

busyliving

AstraMonti wrote: »

Yes.. in the 80s! It's been 30years now, let's get over it :rolleyes:

As for the groupsets, buy whatever feels better in your hands. I love campag feel, I can do with shimano but I don't like Sram levers and shifting at all.

Really, the way my mate bitches about his Alfa you'd swear they are still piss poor...

Also I added another question into my OP, if you great people of the cycling forum could offer some guidance

lennymc

completely ot but my 22 year old alfa is more reliable than my 9 years old audi.

TheBlaaMan

busyliving wrote: »

Really, the way my mate bitches about his Alfa you'd swear they are still piss poor...

Also I added another question into my OP, if you great people of the cycling forum could offer some guidance

Alfas rule - period.
Anyone who disagrees shall be executed (I'm on my eight )

Now, back on topic for the OP

Lumen

Shifters must match mechs. Everything else in the drivetrain just needs to be the right number of speeds, AFAIK. Brakes - whatever.

So if you want you could use a Shimano front shifter and front mech with a Campag rear shifter and rear mech, SRAM brakes and chain, Shimano cassette.

Most non-groupset stuff will be marked as compatible with SRAM/Shimano or Campag.

ednwireland

busyliving wrote: »

.

Also a quick question on behalves of a friend...

Can you mix and match a groupset...

His example is Campac shifters, with Shimano Break Calipers and/or derailers?

Thought it was a good question

shifters and rear derailliuers no (different cable pull lengths)

edit : actually i think mixing front derailliurs would work,

not sure about brake callipers more likely to work though but would you really want sram red callipers and campag levers :eek:

AstraMonti

If I am not mistaken (I remember reading it somewhere) you can't use 7900 brakes with any other shifters as the actuation pull ratio has changed from 1:3 to 1:4 for the 7900.

Lumen

AstraMonti wrote: »

If I am not mistaken (I remember reading it somewhere) you can't use 7900 brakes with any other shifters as the actuation pull ratio has changed from 1:3 to 1:4 for the 7900.

manwithaplan

Just because I would make a newbie error like this, rear hubs have to match cassettes - campag only works with campag, sram/shimano are interchangeable.

kenmc

Lumen wrote: »

Shifters must match mechs. Everything else in the drivetrain just needs to be the right number of speeds, AFAIK. Brakes - whatever.

Aren't campag chains thinner than sram or shimano? i.e you can't run campag chains on sram or shimano cassettes? Or did I make that up?

Also, brakeswise, isn't the quick release for campag brakes acutally in the shifter, not the brake? So you couldn't really run campag brakes and shimano shifters, as you'd have no way of opening the brakes. Presume campag shifters and shimano brakes mean you can get something rediculous like 38mm tyres in there?

Lumen

kenmc wrote: »

Aren't campag chains thinner than sram or shimano? i.e you can't run campag chains on sram or shimano cassettes? Or did I make that up?

Shimano are 6.1, Campag and SRAM are 5.9 (assumed all are 10sp). That's the outer width, AFAIK the inner width is the same.

I don't think the .2mm difference in outer width makes any difference to shifting.

Lumen

kenmc wrote: »

Also, brakeswise, isn't the quick release for campag brakes acutally in the shifter, not the brake? So you couldn't really run campag brakes and shimano shifters, as you'd have no way of opening the brakes.

Good point. The pull ratios are probably different too, though I don't know how much that matters.

kenmc wrote: »

Presume campag shifters and shimano brakes mean you can get something rediculous like 38mm tyres in there?

Never mind the pads, there won't be enough caliper clearance with an inflated tyre.

dave_o_brien

Lumen wrote: »

Good point. The pull ratios are probably different too, though I don't know how much that matters.



Never mind the pads, there won't be enough caliper clearance with an inflated tyre.

This is true; I run shimano brakes with a campag drivetrain on my commuter. Had 28's on it, enough clearance in the brakes, but not a huge amount to spare.

Also, if I remember right, campag brake pull ratio is 1/2, shimano is 1/3, so the wheels need to be kept very true to ensure no rub. The Racing 7's I have on it are good for that, thankfully.

Iwernia

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Alfas rule - period.
Anyone who disagrees shall be executed (I'm on my eight )

Now, back on topic for the OP

And its not even March yet.

Mycroft H

Suntour FTW!

happytramp

BX 19 wrote: »

Suntour FTW!

Yeah, can't believe people are still buying into this sti, electronic shifting mumbo jumbo. Fact is that shifting was perfected in the fifties but covered up by the man so they could make more money.



It was so revolutionary that the top brass are still trying to figure out how it worked.

coastwatch

busyliving wrote: »

Can you mix and match a groupset...

His example is Campac shifters, with Shimano Break Calipers and/or derailers?

Thought it was a good question

Yes, apparently using a Shiftmate. I had to think about it for a while but I (think I) can see how it works now. Haven't used one myself, but must be a option if you had a favourite pair of campag shifters with the rest shimano of vice versa.

Holyboy

happytramp wrote: »

Yeah, can't believe people are still buying into this sti, electronic shifting mumbo jumbo. Fact is that shifting was perfected in the fifties but covered up by the man so they could make more money.



It was so revolutionary that the top brass are still trying to figure out how it worked.

In fairness (albeit a bit OT) it was the IHG guys that perfected shifting, indexed from the start and that was around the turn of the last century!

I'm just going to lie now and say I know it was S.A. (but this is not fact) because I like to make up my own history, but life's more fun when you make stuff up:pac:

Mycroft H

Holyboy wrote: »

In fairness (albeit a bit OT) it was the IHG guys that perfected shifting, indexed from the start and that was around the turn of the last century!

I'm just going to lie now and say I know it was S.A. (but this is not fact) because I like to make up my own history, but life's more fun when you make stuff up:pac:

90% sure they made the first three speed. There was a two speed by an american fellow a few years before that


However, I'd give my right arm for one of those fancy 14 speed german hubs. Perfect for a person like me

Holyboy

BX 19 wrote: »

90% sure they made the first three speed. There was a two speed by an american fellow a few years before that


However, I'd give my right arm for one of those fancy 14 speed german hubs. Perfect for a person like me

Yup they did indeed but there where a few two speed variable hubs around at that time too, I have to say I'm not sure cramming more than five gears into a hub is a great idea, but this is only what I'm thinking this week (I have still to see/work on a S.A. 8 speed hub) me thinks I'm just going to have to buy one to find out what they are like, what I like right now is 5 speed S.A. and a Schlumph drive up front, not sure of ratios ( maybe Lumen could help with that as I'm too lazy! ) Ten gears all enclosed and working perfectly, what more could one want?
WHOOP!

el Bastardo

Holyboy wrote: »

Yup they did indeed but there where a few two speed variable hubs around at that time too, I have to say I'm not sure cramming more than five gears into a hub is a great idea, but this is only what I'm thinking this week (I have still to see/work on a S.A. 8 speed hub) me thinks I'm just going to have to buy one to find out what they are like, what I like right now is 5 speed S.A. and a Schlumph drive up front, not sure of ratios ( maybe Lumen could help with that as I'm too lazy! ) Ten gears all enclosed and working perfectly, what more could one want?
WHOOP!

Eleven gears enclosed and working perfectly?

Lumen

Holyboy wrote: »

what I like right now is 5 speed S.A. and a Schlumph drive up front

Two sets of planetary gears? That has to be the slowest, heaviest drivetrain configuration in existence. It'll be like cycling through treacle. Please build it, and make sure you have a dyno hub up front for extra slowness. :pac:

Do you know how the Schlumph compares to the Hammerschmidt?

Holyboy

Lumen wrote: »

Two sets of planetary gears? That has to be the slowest, heaviest drivetrain configuration in existence. It'll be like cycling through treacle. Please build it, and make sure you have a dyno hub up front for extra slowness. :pac:

Do you know how the Schlumph compares to the Hammerschmidt?

Well maybe I WILL build it, but I would have to figure out a way to make it shaft drive first, just for extra awesomeness (and weight).

As for Schlumph V Hammerschmidt I have to admit I know very little, apart from the first can be fitted to nearly any bike and the second only to bikes with chain device mounts, again I suppose I'll have to buy some to find out:D

PS. Did you change yer oil yet??

Lumen

Holyboy wrote: »

PS. Did you change yer oil yet??

No. I ended up getting the wheels rebuilt in CSS (sorry, my favourite shop was closed) and apparently they send Alfine 11 hubs away to be serviced by a 3rd party, even though they stock Alfine 11 equipped bikes in the shop.

Have you got the oil change kit yet?

(apologies for off-topic)

dancecatz2000

Campag shifts better you can shift down 4 gears at once with shimano it`s 1 at a time, the new ultegra 6700 doesn`t last or work as well as the old 6600,

blorg

dancecatz2000 wrote: »

Campag shifts better you can shift down 4 gears at once with shimano it`s 1 at a time, the new ultegra 6700 doesn`t last or work as well as the old 6600,

Shimano works fine. I have both Ultegra 6660 and 6700 and I prefer the 6700. Looks better, shifts fine, brakes better. I also have Dura Ace 7800 on my best bike and to be honest I am not sure I prefer it over the 6700.

ednwireland

dancecatz2000 wrote: »

Campag shifts better you can shift down 4 gears at once with shimano it`s 1 at a time, ,

never really got this, i nver did this with friction shifters not sure why its perceived as such an advantage (in fact the last time i road campag it was actually a nuisance probably because i wasnt used to it but still)

dancecatz2000

ednwireland wrote: »

never really got this, i nver did this with friction shifters not sure why its perceived as such an advantage (in fact the last time i road campag it was actually a nuisance probably because i wasnt used to it but still)

When you need to jump after a group/sprint or a bus a need a harder gear quick you cann`t beat it,

Also 6700 if it gets a wee knock off the ground agh, there just not as good, anyhow thats what i think others have there own opinion, i have a 5700 groupset that im getting rid of have to say the brakes are strong. but have purchased a set of 10spd campag record shifters an mechs, while im on a rant i also don`t think much of the Campag 11spd gears to finiky, rant over enjoy your groupsets good to see people out on the bike with which ever groupset gets them off the couch,

blorg

dancecatz2000 wrote: »

When you need to jump after a group/sprint or a bus a need a harder gear quick you cann`t beat it,

Click click click. Doesn't seem to stop all the Tour winners on Shimano or SRAM.

I honestly believe the biggest difference between the manufacturers is which hood shape fits your hands better. It is entirely personal.

dancecatz2000

also pro riders will ride what they are given or not get paid, click click click

Mycroft H

dancecatz2000 wrote: »

When you need to jump after a group/sprint or a bus a need a harder gear quick you cann`t beat it,

Also 6700 if it gets a wee knock off the ground agh, there just not as good, anyhow thats what i think others have there own opinion, i have a 5700 groupset that im getting rid of have to say the brakes are strong. but have purchased a set of 10spd campag record shifters an mechs, while im on a rant i also don`t think much of the Campag 11spd gears to finiky, rant over enjoy your groupsets good to see people out on the bike with which ever groupset gets them off the couch,

Yea I can do it with friction shifters and a good derailleur. Its nothing new to be honest. You also cant beat the simplicity of a friction shifter too