Rifle for Foxing

Tawny Owl

Looking to buy a Rifle this Season to add to the Shotgun I have what do I go for and what price am I looking at I know I will have the Paperwork to fill out and an extra Licence but what type Gun to start I wll need the full set up Scope included need to keep it a cheap as possible Thanks.

daithi55

depends on your budget mate cant go wrong with a .223 or i think others on here recommend a .222 ive had a .223 and couldnt fault it

also cheap as possible is not the way to go

TriggerPL

if ya want cheap, the 22 hornet is a cheap way into fox shooting the bullets are i think about 40 euro for 50 , you will pick up a hornet for 400 easy .

.223 is the way to go if ya have the cash .

session savage

.223 is the only job for foxes IMO. Ammo is cheap enough too. Your probably gonna have to spend around 1000 to get set up though!

oats 2

rem .223 is wat i ave. absoutely deadly accurate gun.great killer.
lucky enough to ave zeiss scope mounted on top but this is expensive.im sure you would be just as happy wit less expensive scope.

if you can afford it at all dont spend money on any other fox rifle imo.

Gonzor

I actually shot my first hornet last month and Im sorry I never done so sooner. If I was only shooting foxes and rabbits Id go for the hornet quicker than the 223 because of the money you would save.

When I was shooting 223 I was paying 30euro for a box of 20 bullets. But the hornet is only 35 euro for 50 bullets.

And as somone else said, the 223 is great if you have the money for it. Unfortunately its not getting any cheaper...

daithi55

a .223 sold on here a few weeks back for 300 euro with mounts and a swift scope went for like 100 dont panic and buy ****e season is as good as over for foxes now anyway
rifle http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056436636

Spunk84

daithi55 wrote: »

a .223 sold on here a few weeks back for 300 euro with mounts and a swift scope went for like 100 dont panic and buy ****e season is as good as over for foxes now anyway
rifle http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056436636

It did and it's a fierce gun.

Erk

Gonzor wrote: »

When I was shooting 223 I was paying 30euro for a box of 20 bullets. But the hornet is only 35 euro for 50 bullets.
(

Where are you buying them from may i ask? That's very good for them. Usually 50 for 50 here.

Gonzor

Erk wrote: »

Where are you buying them from may i ask? That's very good for them. Usually 50 for 50 here.

PM..

Gonzor

I was in your position years ago Tawny, all these different calibers and your not sure which one does what, and then to make it worse you have some lads swearing that one round is gods gift to us, while another lad saying its rubbish. Ive tried to give an "on the fence" review on each of these. Hopefully it will help you out a bit.


22 magnum.. cheap and cheerful and does the job. Just make sure you only take close range shots.



17hmr.. again cheap and cheerful, I know literally hundreds of lads who swear by 17hmr for foxing. As matter of fact Im very suprised nobody has already mentioned it. It is a very nice round and one I would definitely seriously look into if I was you.



22 hornet.. any of the older lads will tell you this is a cracking round. You dont see too many of them around these days, but its a great round. I only tried it recently enough and like I said already, if all I was doing was rabbits and foxes and wanted to do it cheap, this is what Id be looking at. Probably even more so then the 17hmr.



223.. Since your looking for something cheap Id advise you stay away from 223, and heres why.

As one of boys pointed out you can buy a cheap 223 rifle easy enough, but you can buy a cheap rifle in any caliber easy enough. So dont let that fool you.

Its the ammo is the problem. Obviously you can buy dirt cheap wolf ammo and all those other types but your not going to have much luck with them. They're more for putting into an AR15 type rifle. And they arent even hunting rounds either, so you will have a lot of wounded foxes running around if you use that stuff.

SO for a decent hunting round your looking at v-max or v-shock or something along those lines.

I used to use v-shock myself when I had the 223.

Lucky for the boys that still have a 223 sportsden is giving a very very good deal at the minute on v-shocks. They are given 80 rounds for 100 euro. So thats going to cost you €6.25 every time you empty the magazine. ANd dont forget thats special offer prices. The regular, non special offer price is actually €7.45 a magazine.

If you went for say a 17hmr on the other hand, you would be looking at €4.45 every time you empty a mag. <--- And thats regular price.


So if your after a cheap setup, Id avoid 223 like the plague. And Id seriously consider either the hmr or the hornet.

Its up to you what you go for, but best of luck with it either way.

declan1980

If you're going between eithe the hmr or the hornet, you should go for the hornet. It's the minimum caliber that should be used for a dedicated fox gun

Tawny Owl

Gonzor thanks very much for writing such good approch to buying a Rifle I have spoken to an Uncle of mine as I said before he has been shooting since he was 16 he is now in his late 60's lots of experience shooting Deer and he does not like the .223 says the grouping from distance is terrible he will bring me again to pick out the right Gun that will suit the shooting I'am going to do thanks everyone but having over 50 years shooting behind him I cant go wrong as both his Sons shoot as well Thanks

Tawny Owl

Chopperdog 2

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Gonzor thanks very much for writing such good approch to buying a Rifle I have spoken to an Uncle of mine as I said before he has been shooting since he was 16 he is now in his late 60's lots of experience shooting Deer and he does not like the .223 says the grouping from distance is terrible he will bring me again to pick out the right Gun that will suit the shooting I'am going to do thanks everyone but having over 50 years shooting behind him I cant go wrong as both his Sons shoot as well Thanks

Tawny Owl

I have a hornet on the Market, pm me if you are interested.

4200fps

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Gonzor thanks very much for writing such good approch to buying a Rifle I have spoken to an Uncle of mine as I said before he has been shooting since he was 16 he is now in his late 60's lots of experience shooting Deer and he does not like the .223 says the grouping from distance is terrible he will bring me again to pick out the right Gun that will suit the shooting I'am going to do thanks everyone but having over 50 years shooting behind him I cant go wrong as both his Sons shoot as well Thanks

Tawny Owl

I personally think the .223 is ahead of the hornet for accuracy at range and also it will produce three times the energy and its also a faster round than the .22 hornet. The hornet is a good fox round but the .223 would be miles ahead and also very accurate but .22 hornet would be cheaper to run. The most accurate hornet is the 17 hornet . My opinion would be stick with a .22 hornet if you want a good cheap fox rifle. Everyone has there favourtes

virminhunter

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Gonzor thanks very much for writing such good approch to buying a Rifle I have spoken to an Uncle of mine as I said before he has been shooting since he was 16 he is now in his late 60's lots of experience shooting Deer and he does not like the .223 says the grouping from distance is terrible he will bring me again to pick out the right Gun that will suit the shooting I'am going to do thanks everyone but having over 50 years shooting behind him I cant go wrong as both his Sons shoot as well Thanks

Tawny Owl

How far is "from distance"? sorry tawny don't want to sound cheeky or anything but I've had a couple of .223's that'd disagree with your uncle:o unless he's comparing it to deer calibers, which wouldn't be a fair comparison.

4200fps

http://youtu.be/gHDDIbA1bNA
Theres your new rifle i'd love to fire one
Bullet drop is -6.5inch at 300yards as far as i know,now that's flat shooting,but a calm day be a help

Gonzor

4200fps wrote: »

http://youtu.be/gHDDIbA1bNA
Theres your new rifle i'd love to fire one
Bullet drop is -6.5inch at 300yards as far as i know,now that's flat shooting,but a calm day be a help

THat 17 hornet looks to be the right job 4200. THat was a cracker of a shot at 1:10 Would love to see what it does to a rabbit at 100...

4200fps

Gonzor wrote: »

THat 17 hornet looks to be the right job 4200. THat was a cracker of a shot at 1:10 Would love to see what it does to a rabbit at 100...

I'd like to see it come to the market over here, you would pop rabbits at ease at 200 yards. Very low recoil they said and it supposed to be laser accurate. .17cal is always more accurate than .22cal in rimfire, centerfire and even in air rifles as far as i know.
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/files/2011/11/17-hornet-trajectory-comparison.jpg
Its just as flat as the .223
More info http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/11/savage-will-offer-model-25s-chambered-in-17-hornet/

pugw

.223 or the hornet would be the way to go! You would definately get a hornet with scope and mounts for 300quid but a .223 with scope would be a bit more! (If you think your going to be shooting rabbits go for the hmr), but you will get frustrated when you start meeting foxes that are staying just out of range but when a fox is moving out to 250 plus away from you you could still have a crack with a .223! I think a lot of quality ammo for either the .223 or the hornet will be around a euro a pop but if you were getting a nice rifle for handy money i would go for it! Keep in mind the .220 swift or a 22-250! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72941537 like look at this for €700 a serious rifle and a right good scope! Swift bullets would be areond 35e a box and 25 for a 22-250 They are like lasers!

alandublin33

anything larger than a 22 magnum

4200fps

pugw wrote: »

.223 or the hornet would be the way to go! You would definately get a hornet with scope and mounts for 300quid but a .223 with scope would be a bit more! (If you think your going to be shooting rabbits go for the hmr), but you will get frustrated when you start meeting foxes that are staying just out of range but when a fox is moving out to 250 plus away from you you could still have a crack with a .223! I think a lot of quality ammo for either the .223 or the hornet will be around a euro a pop but if you were getting a nice rifle for handy money i would go for it! Keep in mind the .220 swift or a 22-250! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72941537 like look at this for €700 a serious rifle and a right good scope! Swift bullets would be areond 35e a box and 25 for a 22-250 They are like lasers!

250 yards for a 22-250 or a 220swift is an easy kill :pac:

4200fps

alandublin33 wrote: »

anything larger than a 22 magnum

I don't think the 22magnum is a humane round for foxs at all. At the least a .17hmr i recon

alandublin33

4200fps wrote: »

I don't think the 22magnum is a humane round for foxs at all. At the least a .17hmr i recon

thats why I said larger than.......

4200fps

4200fps wrote: »

http://youtu.be/gHDDIbA1bNA
Theres your new rifle i'd love to fire one
Bullet drop is -6.5inch at 300yards as far as i know,now that's flat shooting,but a calm day be a help

Look at 1.05mins tis funny, give's a fair sting for .17 lol :P
It's class :cool:

4200fps

alandublin33 wrote: »

thats why I said larger than.......

Oh sorry lad my mistake,half asleep i am lol.

alandublin33

4200fps wrote: »

Oh sorry lad my mistake,half asleep i am lol.

no bother , i did the same myself at times

clivej

223 all the time and you won't want for any other caliber until you go deer stalking. Its a fox killer round. You can get American Eagal hollow point ammo at about €15/20 rounds and are very accurate in my CZ varmint 223.

The 223 will shoot sub MOA out to 500 and I'm not talking about target rifles. My CZ varmint will shoot under 2" at 300m with VMax 40gr ammo.

garv123

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Gonzor thanks very much for writing such good approch to buying a Rifle I have spoken to an Uncle of mine as I said before he has been shooting since he was 16 he is now in his late 60's lots of experience shooting Deer and he does not like the .223 says the grouping from distance is terrible he will bring me again to pick out the right Gun that will suit the shooting I'am going to do thanks everyone but having over 50 years shooting behind him I cant go wrong as both his Sons shoot as well Thanks

Tawny Owl

No matter how experienced he is, I'm afraid the above in bold is bullsh1t.

Have a look at the thread on here where the lads post photos of their groups at 100-300 yards and see for yourself how accurate the gun is.

There must of been something seriously wrong with the gun/shooter when he saw one in action. Even a factory CZ is accurate

Vegeta

4200fps wrote: »

I don't think the 22magnum is a humane round for foxs at all. At the least a .17hmr i recon

Read the part about energy in this link.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

It wasn't me!

4200fps wrote: »

I don't think the 22magnum is a humane round for foxs at all. At the least a .17hmr i recon

You do know that the .17 HMR is exactly the same case as a .22 WMR, necked down to take a smaller bullet, right? Hardly a step up...

garv123

It wasn't me! wrote: »

You do know that the .17 HMR is exactly the same case as a .22 WMR, necked down to take a smaller bullet, right? Hardly a step up...

and packs more punch out to 80 yards.

Vegeta

garv123 wrote: »

and packs more punch out to 80 yards.

Are you talking about the .17hmr or the .22wmr?

quoting from the link above

What we can conclude from this is that the 40 grain .22 WMR load is the most powerful cartridge out to at least 100 yards

garv123

Vegeta wrote: »

Are you talking about the .17hmr or the .22wmr?

quoting from the link above
[/FONT]

missed your link at the end of the last page but yeah i was on about the wmr packing more punch. Only off by 20 yards

Glensman

4200fps wrote: »

I don't think the 22magnum is a humane round for foxs at all. At the least a .17hmr i recon

Ignoring power and trajectory (others will point out that the WMR has more power)

The 17HMR is a highly frangible bullet.
It can break up on a fox's hide rather than giving penetration and the round can be thrown way off by a blade of grass.

I foxed for years with a WMR, my advice is that ANY centrefire cartrisge will be suitable. I have a soft spot for .223 and .204 myself.

Tawny Owl

garv123 wrote: »

No matter how experienced he is, I'm afraid the above in bold is bullsh1t.

Have a look at the thread on here where the lads post photos of their groups at 100-300 yards and see for yourself how accurate the gun is.

There must of been something seriously wrong with the gun/shooter when he saw one in action. Even a factory CZ is accurate

Thanks for your imput.

kildare.17hmr

Tawny Owl wrote: »

garv123 wrote: »

No matter how experienced he is, I'm afraid the above in bold is bullsh1t.

Have a look at the thread on here where the lads post photos of their groups at 100-300 yards and see for yourself how accurate the gun is.

There must of been something seriously wrong with the gun/shooter when he saw one in action. Even a factory CZ is accurate

Thanks for your imput.

Well his imput is correct in fairness

As for shooting costs of the 223 it can be just as expensive as anything else for hunting rounds but you can buy the cheap stuff for plinking which you cant do with alot of others. You can also buy hornady 55gr soft points at €40 for 50 rounds and they are very accurate in My cz.

Gonzor

garv123 wrote: »

No matter how experienced he is, I'm afraid the above in bold is bullsh1t.

How can you say that...??? You have absolutely no idea what the uncle was saying :rolleyes:

His uncle could have being saying "I tried shooting foxes at 600 yards with my 223 and I missed them every time but I nail them right between the eyes with my 308 at 800 yards every single shot"

SO yeh his uncles probably right. 223 is a sh!te round when you start comparing it to deer calibers- and Tawny did say quite clearly his uncle is a deer man.

It wasn't me!

Gonzor wrote: »

How can you say that...??? You have absolutely no idea what the uncle was saying :rolleyes:

His uncle could have being saying "I tried shooting foxes at 600 yards with my 223 and I missed them every time but I nail them right between the eyes with my 308 at 800 yards every single shot"

SO yeh his uncles probably right. 223 is a sh!te round when you start comparing it to deer calibers- and Tawny did say quite clearly his uncle is a deer man.

Doesn't mean it's less accurate. If someone said the above to me I'd believe he was talking complete bollocks too.

kildare.17hmr

Yeah but in fairness gonzer we all know his uncle was not saying that and if you cant hit a target with a 223 at 600 you sure as **** cant hit one at 800 with 308!

How many foxes have you shot passed 300 yards?? Very few id imagine as most foxes would be shot under 200.

For accurate fox shooting with the option to plink for very little and the sheer variaty of ammo available in .223 including heavy rounds for long range targets you will not beat it

homerhop

My self and my lamping partner have been after foxes with everything from a .22 up to a swift.

He has a swift and I have a 223.
Anyone seriously into lamping will tell you that the swift is one of the most devestating foxing rifles out there. Be it short range or long it will drop them. Our longest this year @ roughly 425 yds stepped out with the swift(not something we do on a regular basis). I am hitting comfortably at 200yds with the 223.

At the start of the year when foxes are abundant the likes of the HMR and 17 are ok, I personally never liked the .17 and you will find yourself getting stuck for distance as the weeks go by. We used the smaller calibres at the time as thats all that could be licensed here and there is nothing more frustrating than seeing a fox sitting off knowing you can get the shot but dont have the fire power.

Gonzor

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Yeah but in fairness gonzer we all know his uncle was not saying that and if you cant hit a target with a 223 at 600 you sure as **** cant hit one at 800 with 308!

I still reckon the uncle would be comparing 223 to a deer caliber. And in that case hes right. Long range 223 are $hite.

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

How many foxes have you shot passed 300 yards?? Very few id imagine as most foxes would be shot under 200.

Im not much into foxes with a rifle to be honest. On the other hand. Ever since I got the 270 I just sit up on the highest hill in the club and shoot rabbits out to 800. Something I never had much luck with on the 223 unless it was a very very very calm day.

Vegeta

OP see this thread for the groups made by hunting rifles

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056168205&page=2

virminhunter

homerhop wrote: »

At the start of the year when foxes are abundant the likes of the HMR and 17 are ok, I personally never liked the .17 and you will find yourself getting stuck for distance as the weeks go by. We used the smaller calibres at the time as thats all that could be licensed here and there is nothing more frustrating than seeing a fox sitting off knowing you can get the shot but dont have the fire power.

same here, I had a hornet for a while it was a very good round but I couldn't stick having to let foxes because they were lamp shy and out of range.

It wasn't me!

Gonzor wrote: »

I still reckon the uncle would be comparing 223 to a deer caliber. And in that case hes right. Long range 223 are $hite.

No, they're not. They're less powerful than a deer rifle, but that's not the same as accuracy. If you can't hit with one at range, it points a lot more fingers at your familiarity with the round than any inherent disadvantage of it. Plenty of deer cartridges out there I wouldn't bother trying to shoot at long range too.

Gonzor

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No, they're not. They're less powerful than a deer rifle, but that's not the same as accuracy. If you can't hit with one at range, it points a lot more fingers at your familiarity with the round than any inherent disadvantage of it. Plenty of deer cartridges out there I wouldn't bother trying to shoot at long range too.

You got to be joking...

Going by your theory I should be able to shoot my 22lr at 1000 yards just as accurately as the guy next to me using his 300 win mag.

And the reason I can shoot my 22lr just as accurately is because Im more familiar with my round then the other guy is with his 300win mag.

Is that what your trying to say...??? :rolleyes:

aurin07

The only limiting factor of any weapon is the man behind it.


Dont know too many folk shooting foxes over 300 yards now do you?.

kildare.17hmr

Thats not what he is saying at all lad!

It wasn't me!

Gonzor wrote: »

You got to be joking...

Going by your theory I should be able to shoot my 22lr at 1000 yards just as accurately as the guy next to me using his 300 win mag.

And the reason I can shoot my 22lr just as accurately is because Im more familiar with my round then the other guy is with his 300win mag.

Is that what your trying to say...??? :rolleyes:

No, you're being either facetious or wilfully ignorant. If you can shoot a .270 to six hundred yards accurately, you can shoot a .223 accurately at that range. If you can't, it points to your familiarity with the round or the rifle. Either is enough to shoot small groups at that range. The analogy would be more valid if you'd used a hundred yards instead of a thousand.

tomcat220t

A good .204 and you will never look back :cool.
In a different league to most other nor deer cailbers!

kildare.17hmr

tomcat220t wrote: »

A good .204 and you will never look back :cool.
In a different league to most other nor deer cailbers!

Not really tho, 40gr from a 223 are very similar in performance to 204