N7 Naas Dual Carriageway

AugustusMinimus

This is a simple point.

The government spent millions widening this road from 2 lanes to 3 lanes. I believe that further sections of the M7 will be widened to 3 lanes also.

However, all this money has basically been thrown down the drain. As well as being an appauling annoyance on this road, Middle Lane Morons also essentially reduce the capacity of this road from 3 lanes to 2 lanes.

Why on earth would the government spend millions in the first place and then not be bothered to spend 50,000 on some sort of Garda or advertising initiative so that drivers will drive in the left most lane. It's essentially a giant waste of cash until this actually happens.

milltown

Sshh FFS!

That left lane is all mine. Once I'm in it I can set the cruise control to 100kmh and settle into a good book, safe in the knowledge that nobody is going to get in my way.

skyhighflyer

I'm fairly sure I've seen ads on TV telling people to keep left on motorways. Te signage doesn't help either. A few flashing signs saying 'keep left' and a change in signage would help.

EPM

milltown wrote: »

Sshh FFS!

That left lane is all mine. Once I'm in it I can set the cruise control to 100kmh and settle into a good book, safe in the knowledge that nobody is going to get in my way.

I wind up doing the same usually too:)

It's close on impossible to use proper lane discipline. One of the stretches of road I dislike driving on the most.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I find on that road that you can only carry out correct lane discipline is everyone else is also. When I get into the left lane, I will either have to undertake somebody (total no no in my book) within a few seconds or cross both lanes into the overtaking lane and then two lanes back again. That 4 sets of cat eyes to jingle my spine .

Once everyone gets the idea it will be easier for all.

AugustusMinimus

Malakai Famous Transgressor wrote: »

I find on that road that you can only carry out correct lane discipline is everyone else is also. When I get into the left lane, I will either have to undertake somebody (total no no in my book) within a few seconds or cross both lanes into the overtaking lane and then two lanes back again. That 4 sets of cat eyes to jingle my spine .

Once everyone gets the idea it will be easier for all.

I always undertake. People claim it's dangerous, I simply don't understand why.

You should always look to your left and check your mirrors while changing lanes. In this case, there should be no reason why undertaking should be any more dangerous than overtaking.

In fact, as MOMs never go into the leftmost lane, I would say it's actually safer than overtaking.

maceocc2

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I always undertake. People claim it's dangerous, I simply don't understand why.

Have to agree with ye here, this is common practice in the states.

tossy

In the states poeple pass on the left the whole time,same as all of mainland europe

corktina

Never mind signs and TV ads, what we need is a Traffic Corps....


edit: oops just googled it, seems we do have one! they do f all to help the traffic flow though.

Nissan doctor

maceocc2 wrote: »

Have to agree with ye here, this is common practice in the states.

Imagin if we had exits to the left and right of the motorway like the states....daily pile ups!:rolleyes:

There is no difference in the precautions/observations/controls required to undertake then to overtake.

Its all back to lack of driver education again. Basic driving rules(what should be common sense) should be getting drilled home starting when kids enter secondary school.

AugustusMinimus

I'll actually go further.

It is safer to overtaking on the left. This is because the B pillar causes a blind spot for the driver when looking right. However, when looking left, due to being further away from the B pillar, the blind spot is greatly reduced.

Nissan doctor

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'll actually go further.

It is safer to overtaking on the left. This is because the B pillar causes a blind spot for the driver when looking right. However, when looking left, due to being further away from the B pillar, the blind spot is greatly reduced.

See there is your first mistake....assuming that most drivers do anything more then glance in their mirrors before changing lanes!

Drive like you expect every car you approach to swerve at you and all will be safer:p

flyingsnail

Nissan doctor wrote: »

See there is your first mistake....assuming that most drivers do anything more then glance in their mirrors before changing lanes!

Drive like you expect every car you approach to swerve at you and all will be safer:p

But you assume that drivers go as far as looking in their mirrors.:P


One I have seen quite a bit of lately is drivers indicating half way through a lane change. i.e. they are moving from the left lane to the right lane and only start to indicate when the are occupying half of each lane.

a_v525

Just on the "signs on motorway" issue, Regularly heading down the N7 outof Harold's Cross I have seen the big elecronic sign with the message: "Remember, don't drink & drive"

Many's the occasion where I have said "oops! I completely forgot. I will now pull in & finish my longneck cider safely"


NOT!

What kind of pointless message is that!?! Put up something useful like was already mentioned "keep left" or "dont use your mobile" or something along those lines.

mikemac1

When I first used it a few years ago it seemed to me going by the signage that coming up to an exit if you were in the left lane you were going to channelled down that exit.

The confusing signs have been fixed since then.
And it wasn't just me who thought they were confusing, we had a thread on it two years ago
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66150018

The dodgy gantries on the N7 that made it look like the left hand lane dropped have long since been replaced.

But maybe people are still in that mentality?

djimi

Im pretty sure the only thing that will actually help this problem on Irish roads is if the Gardai get a large vehicle with a modified bull bar on the front that drives along the middle lane and physically pushes the halfwits back into the left hand lane. Signage or TV ad campaigns are not going to work; these people are simply too stupid to understand what they are doing wrong.

Ive given up on correct lane discipline. I undertake and have no conscience about doing so. I drove home to Naas from Dublin yesterday afternoon and was able to drive at a solid 100km/h in the left hand lane past a fairly full middle lane going slower than I was. I used to cross two lanes of traffic to overtake these idiots properly. I came to the conclusion that it was not worth the wear and tear on my car doing this every few hundred meters and its probably more dangerous to be constantly having to cross back and forth across two lanes of traffic just to overtake cars who are going less than the speed limit on a perfectly straight and safe dual carraigeway.

djimi

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'll actually go further.

It is safer to overtaking on the left. This is because the B pillar causes a blind spot for the driver when looking right. However, when looking left, due to being further away from the B pillar, the blind spot is greatly reduced.

On this actually, Ive always wondered something. If you are in the left hand land and undertaking a car that changes lanes and ends up crashing into you; who ends up being at fault? In my mind the person who doesnt check the lane they are moving into is far more at fault than the person who is passing them on the left.

And if it did come down to trying to determine blame, how can they prove that I was passing them out when they turned into me, and not that they were overtaking me on the right and turned into the left hand lane too early? Is there anyway that they can determine how the accident actually came to happen (other than witnesses)?

AugustusMinimus

djimi wrote: »

On this actually, Ive always wondered something. If you are in the left hand land and undertaking a car that changes lanes and ends up crashing into you; who ends up being at fault? In my mind the person who doesnt check the lane they are moving into is far more at fault than the person who is passing them on the left.

And if it did come down to trying to determine blame, how can they prove that I was passing them out when they turned into me, and not that they were overtaking me on the right and turned into the left hand lane too early? Is there anyway that they can determine how the accident actually came to happen (other than witnesses)?

It's basically your word against his I would imagine.

questionquick

a_v525 wrote: »

Just on the "signs on motorway" issue, Regularly heading down the N7 outof Harold's Cross I have seen the big elecronic sign with the message: "Remember, don't drink & drive"

Many's the occasion where I have said "oops! I completely forgot. I will now pull in & finish my longneck cider safely"


NOT!

What kind of pointless message is that!?! Put up something useful like was already mentioned "keep left" or "dont use your mobile" or something along those lines.

It reminds people not to drink and drive. Thats the point.

You see the sign. . You go drinking that night.. reminds you not to be drinking and driving.

djimi

questionquick wrote: »

It reminds people not to drink and drive. Thats the point.

You see the sign. . You go drinking that night.. reminds you not to be drinking and driving.

If someone needs a motorway sign to remind them not to drink and drive then they obviously are far too stupid to deserve a drivers license in the first place. Those signs should be used to remind people of rules of the road that they have clearly forgotten such as lane discipline and how to use a roundabout without making a dickhead of yourself!

charlemont

djimi wrote: »

Im pretty sure the only thing that will actually help this problem on Irish roads is if the Gardai get a large vehicle with a modified bull bar on the front that drives along the middle lane and physically pushes the halfwits back into the left hand lane. Signage or TV ad campaigns are not going to work; these people are simply too stupid to understand what they are doing wrong.

Ive given up on correct lane discipline. I undertake and have no conscience about doing so. I drove home to Naas from Dublin yesterday afternoon and was able to drive at a solid 100km/h in the left hand lane past a fairly full middle lane going slower than I was. I used to cross two lanes of traffic to overtake these idiots properly. I came to the conclusion that it was not worth the wear and tear on my car doing this every few hundred meters and its probably more dangerous to be constantly having to cross back and forth across two lanes of traffic just to overtake cars who are going less than the speed limit on a perfectly straight and safe dual carraigeway.

This is exactly the problem so no amount of advertising will change their ways as it will be ignored.

questionquick

djimi wrote: »

If someone needs a motorway sign to remind them not to drink and drive then they obviously are far too stupid to deserve a drivers license in the first place. Those signs should be used to remind people of rules of the road that they have clearly forgotten such as lane discipline and how to use a roundabout without making a dickhead of yourself!

If someone needs a motorway sign to remind them to have lane discipline and how to use a roundabout without making a dickhead of them self then they are obviously are far too stupid to deserve a driving license in the first place!

AugustusMinimus

charlemont wrote: »

This is exactly the problem so no amount of advertising will change their ways as it will be ignored.

2 penalty points on their licence would do the trick.

djimi

questionquick wrote: »

If someone needs a motorway sign to remind them to have lane discipline and how to use a roundabout without making a dickhead of them self then they are obviously are far too stupid to deserve a driving license in the first place!

There is a massive difference between getting mixed up as to which lane to approach a roundabout in and not understanding why driving a car under the influence of alcohol is a dangerous idea to be fair...

AugustusMinimus

questionquick wrote: »

If someone needs a motorway sign to remind them to have lane discipline and how to use a roundabout without making a dickhead of them self then they are obviously are far too stupid to deserve a driving license in the first place!

There's a massive difference.

Drink driving is a stigma which has vast coverage in the media along with an intense Garda policing effort.

On the other hand, lane discipline is rarely if at all mentioned anywhere. Hell, it's not even part of the driving test with most tests operating on single lane roads.


I'll put it with you like this. Give me your estimate on what percentage of drivers know they shouldn't drink and drive and how many know they should be in the leftmost lane on a 3 lane carriageway.

questionquick

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There's a massive difference.

Drink driving is a stigma which has vast coverage in the media along with an intense Garda policing effort.

On the other hand, lane discipline is rarely if at all mentioned anywhere. Hell, it's not even part of the driving test with most tests operating on single lane roads.

I see your point but i dont think the sign , as a reminder, is useless.

I agree, im all for the lane and roundabout signs.

questionquick

djimi wrote: »

There is a massive difference between getting mixed up as to which lane to approach a roundabout in and not understanding why driving a car under the influence of alcohol is a dangerous idea to be fair...

yes but to be fair... the point I am making is that the sign about drink driving, as a reminder, is not useless!!

Im all for lane and roundabout discipline signs

AugustusMinimus

questionquick wrote: »

I see your point but i dont think the sign , as a reminder, is useless.

I agree, im all for the lane and roundabout signs.

I personally think it is a pointless usage of the sign. The message on drink driving is out there and 100% of drivers know they shouldn't drink and drive.

Those who do drink and drive know they are breaking the law and seeing it on a sign while driving somewhere isn't going to change their mind on the subject. Improving policing will.


On the other hand, telling a driver at the time that they are in the wrong lane, considering the huge ignorance surrounding lane discipline is a good usage of an overhead electronic gantry. Such usage of electronic signs is done in most countries I've driven in Europe, but sadly I've never seen it here.

I think it comes down to an RSA obsession on speeding and drunk driving and absolutely nothing else.

questionquick

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There's a massive difference.

I'll put it with you like this. Give me your estimate on what percentage of drivers know they shouldn't drink and drive and how many know they should be in the leftmost lane on a 3 lane carriageway.

Know they shouldnt drink and drive? 85%..?

Know they should be in leftmost lane? 70% ? Seems like alot of people cant be bothered doing it tho.

AugustusMinimus

questionquick wrote: »

Know they shouldnt drink and drive? 85%..?

Know they should be in leftmost lane? 70% ? Seems like alot of people cant be bothered doing it tho.

In my mind, 100% know they shouldn't drink and drive. The people who do drink and drive know they are breaking the law.

I think at most, 50% of people know they should be driving in the leftmost lane on a 3 lane carriageway.


I simply can't accept that 15% of the Irish motorist population doesn't know about drink driving legislation.

questionquick

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

In my mind, 100% know they shouldn't drink and drive. The people who do drink and drive know they are breaking the law.

I think at most, 50% of people know they should be driving in the leftmost lane on a 3 lane carriageway.


I simply can't accept that 15% of the Irish motorist population doesn't know about drink driving legislation.

Im thinking along the lines of 85% of people know they shouldnt drink and drive and dont, the other 15% know they shouldnt but do anyway.

I would say that 70% of people know they shouldnt stay in the middle lane but alot of them cant be bothered.

Now...I cant be bothered thinking of percentages anymore. start a poll

Silvera

I use that road a lot and the middle-lane hoggers are annoying.
The problem is that so many Irish drivers actually believe that the left lane is the 'slow lane' and 'only for trucks, etc'.

Whats needed imho is (Sunday?) newspaper advertising showing (mostly middle aged?) drivers how to use dual-carriageways/motorways.

...plus lots of 'KEEP LEFT' signs
(as spotted everywhere in New Zealand when I was driving there in 2004)

btkm8unsl0w5r4

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I always undertake. People claim it's dangerous, I simply don't understand why.

You should always look to your left and check your mirrors while changing lanes. In this case, there should be no reason why undertaking should be any more dangerous than overtaking.

In fact, as MOMs never go into the leftmost lane, I would say it's actually safer than overtaking.

I trust myself to look in the left mirror I just don't trust others to do the same.