No money for clamp

CramCycle

Apologies if this has been posted before but I cannot find anything similar. I got clamped in my car park, unfortunately I deserved it, out of time in a visitors space by 30 minutes but thats not the point of this post.

I can't afford the release fee, or at least I can't for 3 days, by which point it will have quadrupled and It will almost be more than the car is worth.

What happens if I leave it there, do NCPS tow? I have someone to tow my car elsewhere on monday but should I be worried that it will be towed before then? If they tow, where do they tow to. Should I call them and tell them that if they leave it on or tow, they can keep it or should I just say nowt.

Has anyone ever been towed by NCPS?

seamus

NCPS do not have an right to seize or interfere with your vehicle unless they're working under contract from a local council.

Assuming that this is a private car park, then they must release the clamp when you ask and they can bill you for the release fee.

Sleepy

Or, if you google how to remove a clamp on youtube you can do it yourself. It can be done without damage to the clamp.

It's generally advised that if you can't remove it without damaging the clamp (i.e. have to take an angle grinder to it) that you keep the clamp and remove evidence of your damage to it and denying all knowledge of same if they come after you (plead the mysterious good samaritan with an angle-grinder defence!)

CramCycle

seamus wrote: »

NCPS do not have an right to seize or interfere with your vehicle unless they're working under contract from a local council.

Assuming that this is a private car park, then they must release the clamp when you ask and they can bill you for the release fee.

It is a private car park, does that mean if I do nothing they will just leave it there?

Is it that simple, that I can just ask for a bill rather than paying up straight away? I was under the impression that they did not release until the money was in there hands.

Sleepy wrote: »

Or, if you google how to remove a clamp on youtube you can do it yourself. It can be done without damage to the clamp.

I can't remove the clamp where it is as I can't release the wishbone from it (not enough skill/knowledge). My boss is coming over on Thursday evening to do it if it has not been towed as he has done it before without any damage (to this very car, I bought it from him).

giant_midget

CramCycle wrote: »

It is a private car park, does that mean if I do nothing they will just leave it there?

Is it that simple, that I can just ask for a bill rather than paying up straight away? I was under the impression that they did not release until the money was in there hands.



I can't remove the clamp where it is as I can't release the wishbone from it (not enough skill/knowledge). My boss is coming over on Thursday evening to do it if it has not been towed as he has done it before without any damage (to this very car, I bought it from him).

You would want to try to get it off tonight or first thing in the morning. Get a mechanic friend of yours to have a look and see if he can remove it.

Put the clamp in the boot then write to the clamping company advising them that you will be charging €20 per day storage fee for minding their clamp.

seamus

CramCycle wrote: »

It is a private car park, does that mean if I do nothing they will just leave it there?

Is it that simple, that I can just ask for a bill rather than paying up straight away? I was under the impression that they did not release until the money was in there hands.

They say they don't, but legally they can't do that.

There are certain circumstances where property can be withheld until a bill is paid. Two examples are a mechanic keeping your car or a hotel keeping your stuff until you pay your bill.

But there are no set rules, and it would be up to the person seizing the property to demonstrate that they had a right to do so. A private clamping company have no legal right to seize your property, and no right to interfere with your vehicle.
They have a right to impose a fee for improper parking if the fees are clearly displayed in the car park, but they cannot indefinitely clamp your vehicle.

Clamping your vehicle and applying an increasing charge for parking until you pay up is extortion. Bare-faced, illegal and dishonest behaviour.

They must remove the clamp when you ask. They also cannot do anything to prevent you from removing the clamp yourself (provided you don't damage it) But this doesn't mean that you don't owe them any money. The easiest way to go about it is to be reasonable. Provide them with a proof of address, a photocopy of a bill or something.
If they refuse to remove the clamp, contact the Gardai and report the company for illegally seizing your property.

keithclancy

Just cut the f*cking thing off and throw it in a ditch somewhere.

When they call you just forget the whole thing, i.e. 'what clamp ?'

Jesus Shaves

Should have took the bike

CramCycle

darokane wrote: »

Should have took the bike

Touche, its the only reason I am not pushed about rushing it. I don't need my car at the minute but I will at some point.

CramCycle

Funny story, came back at half time from the Ireland match and someone had cut it off. I presume it was the guy in the green hoodie and ginger beard with an angle grinder I seen walking past me I saw when I was heading home.

Wish I could say thanks.

I'll throw up some pics, must ring NCPS to inform them that there clamp is littering on private property.

MugMugs

CramCycle wrote: »

Funny story, came back at half time from the Ireland match and someone had cut it off. I presume it was the guy in the green hoodie and ginger beard with an angle grinder I seen walking past me I saw when I was heading home.

Now THAT'S how you deal with a clamp !

Dublin_Gunner

CramCycle wrote: »

Funny story, came back at half time from the Ireland match and someone had cut it off. I presume it was the guy in the green hoodie and ginger beard with an angle grinder I seen walking past me I saw when I was heading home.

Wish I could say thanks.

I'll throw up some pics, must ring NCPS to inform them that there clamp is littering on private property.

Obviously a passing disgruntled Italian metalworker deciding to take his woes out on the first clamp he encountered on the way home.

How very fortunate for you

CramCycle

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Obviously a passing disgruntled Italian metalworker deciding to take his woes out on the first clamp he encountered on the way home.

How very fortunate for you

Very lucky I suppose, I was considering it myself but since that guy done it I suppose all I can say is thanks. Next time I see an NCPS van I'll tell them where they can collect their clamp.

Was tempted to charge storage fees and mention there was a note in my window explaining that clamps found touching my vehicle would be stored at the owners expense

LeinsterDub

CramCycle wrote: »

Funny story, came back at half time from the Ireland match and someone had cut it off. I presume it was the guy in the green hoodie and ginger beard with an angle grinder I seen walking past me I saw when I was heading home.

Wish I could say thanks.

I'll throw up some pics, must ring NCPS to inform them that there clamp is littering on private property.

May be grossly misinformed here but can't NCP now chase the OP for criminal damages?

mickdw

Dont get too excited. Just say nothing and tell them that you never saw a clamp on the car. Anything else and they will try to charge you for the damage.

seamus

LeinsterDub wrote: »

May be grossly misinformed here but can't NCP now chase the OP for criminal damages?

The OP didn't damage anything. How can he be chased for criminal damage?

LeinsterDub

seamus wrote: »

The OP didn't damage anything. How can he be chased for criminal damage?

Who is the burden of proof on ? Is it on the NCP to prove the clamp wasn't just removed by a random stranger or the OP to prove it was removed by a random stranger?

CramCycle

LeinsterDub wrote: »

May be grossly misinformed here but can't NCP now chase the OP for criminal damages?

Camera pointing at my car as I found out, wasn't me who cut it, guy walked onto the property and cut the chain (I imagine, I haven't seen the video, maybe he hung around and lives on the property). The guy who walked out had his hood up, didn't get a good look at his face as I was looking at the angle grinder. He had a red beard, fairly thick (far longer and thicker than mine), medium height, medium build.

Much like being unable to pay the fine, taking me for damages will be a tremendous waste of time considering it had nothing to do with me, I had already informed them that i had no intention of paying for the clamp removal but i would not remove it myself as I didn't need the car (no money for petrol), I did tell them that they were not allowed tow as the car was not abandoned and any attempt to do so would be seen as theft (thank god for that camera).

LeinsterDub

Just to clarify OP wasn't doubting your story. Was just wondering what would happen if they decided to chase you. However it looks like your well covered in your case with the guy be caught on camera.

antodeco

Just as a general wondering, could you post a sign on your own window, stating that any property attached to the vehicle intended to immobilise the vehicle will be removed at the cost of the owner? Technically, it's worth the same as NCPS clamper signs?

seamus

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Who is the burden of proof on ? Is it on the NCP to prove the clamp wasn't just removed by a random stranger?

Balance of probabilities for a civil case. Beyond a reasonable doubt for a criminal case.

In a criminal case, the burden would be strictly on the Gardai/NCPS to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the OP cut the clamp.

In a civil case, it's weighed up on what was the most likely thing to have happened. Even without the video evidence, the OP describing the man with the angle grinder along with the note he found on his windscreen would be sufficient (IMO) to determine that there's a high probability that a stranger is actively cutting off NCPS clamps due to a grudge or other sense of necessity.

antodeco

Just as a general wondering, could you post a sign on your own window, stating that any property attached to the vehicle intended to immobilise the vehicle will be removed at the cost of the owner? Technically, it's worth the same as NCPS clamper signs?

MugMugs

LeinsterDub wrote: »

May be grossly misinformed here but can't NCP now chase the OP for criminal damages?

If he cut the clamp off and they could prove it then yes.

But then the OP could take a counter suit against NCPS for disabling a vehicle which is kind of illegal under the Road Traffic Act and they REALLY don't want that going to court

CramCycle

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Who is the burden of proof on ? Is it on the NCP to prove the clamp wasn't just removed by a random stranger or the OP to prove it was removed by a random stranger?

Proof is on the camera footage, i presume they have already gotten a copy from the management company. I presume the burden of proof is on them, but I am satisfied that it was not me.

Also note that I seen no one damaging the property, it was damaged when I arrived, ginger/green guy could be someone walking home from work and I have unfairly cast a bad reputation upon him.

djimi

FWIW I have heard stories of people who dont need the car simply leaving the clamp on the car and NCPS will eventually come take it off themselves. Not sure how true it is but it makes sense I suppose; if its sitting on your car for a few days then its not making them any money elsewhere, so eventually they will have to cut their loses.

Darsad

AFAIK They cant pursue the OP as they are not entitled to his name and address unless they are contracted by a local authority , which they could not have been when clamping on private property. If they do send a letter or some sort of summons then it is a breach of the data protection act and unlawful access of the drivers personal information. I doubt you will hear from them , if you do write them asnorter demanding to know how they got your details etc .

Fey!

Nice ending to the story OP.

Can you get a copy of the video for yourself in case the clampers do attempt to go after you for damages? Would be good protection for yourself.

Anan1

Fey! wrote: »

Nice ending to the story OP.

Can you get a copy of the video for yourself in case the clampers do attempt to go after you for damages? Would be good protection for yourself.

I wonder is the OP an owner or a tenant? Presumably the camera is owned by the management company, who'll have the contract with NCPS. The apartment owner will be a member of the MC. If the OP's renting then we mightn't have heard the ending yet.;)

MugMugs

Anan1 wrote: »

Fey! wrote: »

Nice ending to the story OP.

Can you get a copy of the video for yourself in case the clampers do attempt to go after you for damages? Would be good protection for yourself.

I wonder is the OP an owner or a tenant? Presumably the camera is owned by the management company, who'll have the contract with NCPS. The apartment owner will be a member of the MC. If the OP's renting then we mightn't have heard the ending yet.;)

Why? Why would the landlord care? Irrespective of him paying a management company, who's to say the Landlord gives a toss about NCPS and their knackered clamp?

Anan1

MugMugs wrote: »

Why? Why would the landlord care? Irrespective of him paying a management company, who's to say the Landlord gives a toss about NCPS and their knackered clamp?

We don't know what the landlord's attitude might be.

CramCycle

Darsad wrote: »

AFAIK They cant pursue the OP as they are not entitled to his name and address unless they are contracted by a local authority , which they could not have been when clamping on private property. If they do send a letter or some sort of summons then it is a breach of the data protection act and unlawful access of the drivers personal information. I doubt you will hear from them , if you do write them asnorter demanding to know how they got your details etc .

To get my name and address they would have to persue me for damages, which I haven't committed, so they would have to go after the owner of the car (me), then send a letter, which I will respond to by explaining it wasn't me and explain anything I know about the event.

They could then persue me with a solicitors letter, which I suppose I would have to respond in kind with a solicitors letter looking for damages through harrassment (to pay my solicitor not for any gain). I don't thik they'd waste their time and I hope they don't purely from a point of being really busy at the minute.

Fey! wrote: »

Can you get a copy of the video for yourself in case the clampers do attempt to go after you for damages? Would be good protection for yourself.

I'll ask how long they keep the video for when I see the maintainence guys around.

Anan1 wrote: »

I wonder is the OP an owner or a tenant? Presumably the camera is owned by the management company, who'll have the contract with NCPS. The apartment owner will be a member of the MC. If the OP's renting then we mightn't have heard the ending yet.;)

Renter, but I didn't do it so I'm not worried, deal with an estate angent so migth drop him a mail if anything comes up about it.

MugMugs wrote: »

Why? Why would the landlord care? Irrespective of him paying a management company, who's to say the Landlord gives a toss about NCPS and their knackered clamp?

Anan1 wrote: »

We don't know what the landlord's attitude might be.

The landlord wants nothing to do with us, its all the estate agent who gets a nice wage ot make sure the landlord heres nothing.

Anan1

CramCycle wrote: »

Renter, but I didn't do it so I'm not worried, deal with an estate angent so migth drop him a mail if anything comes up about it.

The landlord wants nothing to do with us, its all the estate agent who gets a nice wage ot make sure the landlord heres nothing.

I can't see either NCPS or the MC coming after you directly - if anything they'll go to the landlord, as he's the member of the MC.

MugMugs

Anan1 wrote: »

MugMugs wrote: »

Why? Why would the landlord care? Irrespective of him paying a management company, who's to say the Landlord gives a toss about NCPS and their knackered clamp?

We don't know what the landlord's attitude might be.

True but the OP said it wasn't him that did the cutting. It was Mr Red Beard Hoodie dude.... Isn't much the landlord could do IMO...

Anan1

MugMugs wrote: »

.... Isn't much the landlord could do IMO...

Sure they could - they could refuse to renew the lease and get sticky with the deposit. Unlike NCPS, the landlord doesn't need proof. The OP might never even know.

CramCycle

Anan1 wrote: »

Sure they could - they could refuse to renew the lease and get sticky with the deposit. Unlike NCPS, the landlord doesn't need proof. The OP might never even know.

Fair point but I'm not sure why the estate would considering its nothing to do with him but since we only moved in 3 weeks ago, he has a year to calm down if it is an issue.

Yawns

djimi wrote: »

FWIW I have heard stories of people who dont need the car simply leaving the clamp on the car and NCPS will eventually come take it off themselves. Not sure how true it is but it makes sense I suppose; if its sitting on your car for a few days then its not making them any money elsewhere, so eventually they will have to cut their loses.

Yup I was clamped soon after moving in. The clamper came within a few hours. I explained the situation whilst blocking him from getting at my car. After a few minutes he agreed and said to have a permit by end of the week. Next morning at 8am I see the car clamped. Cue a phone call to NCPS customer service who couldn't have been ruder. I told him I would cut it off myself. Left it for 2 days.

Went and bought an angle grinder. Walked past the NCPS van with the same fella and waved hello to him whilst holding my new toy. Went in and made a nice cup of tea. Went out a few mins later and the clamp was gone. Oh well. Never did get to use that grinder in the end and its been over a year. Others have been clamped but every time I noticed the owner was paying cash to have it removed. Such a shame, I'd have gladly cut it off for them.

I did wonder at the time if my Landlord had intervened with them for removal but recently had a conversation with him and he had no idea about it at all. In fact he laughed about the whole thing and was absolutely delighted.

CramCycle

Bumped into NCPS guy at work, went up to him and told him I had one of their clamps. Not in work but at my apartment, it was cut off by someone on Saturday. He laughed and asked how much I paid, advised me to go on FB to find people to do it :eek: I told him it looked like someone who was poissed off, and he laughed, says it happens all the time, someone gets clamped a few times, loses it and starts cutting them off, or sets up a FB page offering to cut them off vigilante style.

Took my reg, and the clamp, told me once he reported the clamp returned they would not persue. I told him about the camera, if they wanted footage (management guy told me it was only 48 hours in length this morning so its gone, I was just sounding legit). He informed me that they wouldn't bother going to the management company unless it was a common occurance and once the clamp was returned they most certainly would not.

A nice guy (can't believe I said it), NCPS do not tow from private property and if you leave it long enough they will take the clamp back. Depends on the place, left on 3 days minimum, the maximum depends on how busy the guy is.

djimi

Im fairly sure that if NCPS towed their car you could have them prosecuted for car theft...

Anan1

CramCycle wrote: »

Fair point but I'm not sure why the estate would considering its nothing to do with him but since we only moved in 3 weeks ago, he has a year to calm down if it is an issue.

The estate agent will do what the landlord tells them.

CramCycle

djimi wrote: »

Im fairly sure that if NCPS towed their car you could have them prosecuted for car theft...

I figured that from what others have said but just to clarify as they did have that written into their warning slip (not on any sign around), for future reference as it was my main concern until others made me realise they shouldn't.

Anan1 wrote: »

The estate agent will do what the landlord tells them.

He can and I have no doubt does but I broke no rules of the MC or his lease, he would have to find another reason to evict me, which I don't see him doing. The estate agent knows the rules, knows I broke none (or at least can't show that I have). NCPS will not be notifying the MC according to their driver (could be lying).

Regardless unless I do something to annoy the landlord (I have not) then I can't see why he would? This whole thing seems way off topic.

Also to clarify, my reg is not reported to the MC or the landlord, they do not know my car from Adams. If they investigated I am sure they could figure it out but again, huge amount of time and resources to find out something that gives them nothing.