Are all current RA recipients being "reviewed" & treated in effect as new claimants?

ohwell

I'm on DA, don't work and also get RA. My wife's a full time mature student. Got a letter today saying that "your claim has been reviewed as there has been a change in circumstances since the determination was given". What change I'm thinking? Then it er, explains it "the change is that your landlord has reduced your rent to €140.80 per week. In this regard payment of rent supplement will be reduced to €103.80 per week". Currently we get RA of €106 per week.

Our landlord reduced the rent to €140.80 sometime within the last 12 to 18 months, not now or even recently. He reduced the rent as the maximum threshold reduced along with the weekly rent allowance payment, and in line with that he reduced the rent. So, when they say our circumstances have changed since "the [original] determination" yes - but so has everyone else's! Everyone's rent has had to reduce over the last number of years to make sure they stay within the new maximum rent thresholds. So does that mean every existing recipient of RA is now to be treated in effect as new applicants and subject to the new rules?

It appears that existing recipients are being treated the same as new applicants. Under the new rules "Rent limits were reduced on 1 January 2012 for new claimants. The new limits will apply to existing claimants when their claims are reviewed or if they move to new accommodation". So, what's the deciding factor for being "reviewed" I wonder? I'm thinking that for them to claim that there's been a change in circumstance is a bit nonsensical, as everyone who gets rent allowance has had a change of circumstance, everyone's landlord has had to at some time over the last few years reduce the rent - if they didn't the RA tenants would be breaching the maximum rent limits.

The letter goes onto say that we should now negotiate a voluntary rent reduction from €140.80 to €132.70 per week with our landlord. Will try this and see what he says, he probably will agree but may not, if not there's always the option to move. Has anyone else gotten a letter like this? Thanks.

keredern

ohwell wrote: »

I'm on DA, don't work and also get RA. My wife's a full time mature student. Got a letter today saying that "your claim has been reviewed as there has been a change in circumstances since the determination was given". What change I'm thinking? Then it er, explains it "the change is that your landlord has reduced your rent to €140.80 per week. In this regard payment of rent supplement will be reduced to €103.80 per week". Currently we get RA of €106 per week.

*Our landlord reduced the rent to €140.80 sometime within the last 12 to 18 months, not now or even recently. He reduced the rent as the maximum threshold reduced along with the weekly rent allowance payment, and in line with that he reduced the rent. So, when they say our circumstances have changed since "the [original] determination" yes - but so has everyone else's! Everyone's rent has had to reduce over the last number of years to make sure they stay within the new maximum rent thresholds. So does that mean every existing recipient of RA is now to be treated in effect as new applicants and subject to the new rules?

**It appears that existing recipients are being treated the same as new applicants. Under the new rules "Rent limits were reduced on 1 January 2012 for new claimants. The new limits will apply to existing claimants when their claims are reviewed or if they move to new accommodation". So, what's the deciding factor for being "reviewed" I wonder? ***I'm thinking that for them to claim that there's been a change in circumstance is a bit nonsensical, as everyone who gets rent allowance has had a change of circumstance, everyone's landlord has had to at some time over the last few years reduce the rent - if they didn't the RA tenants would be breaching the maximum rent limits.

The letter goes onto say that we should now negotiate a voluntary rent reduction from €140.80 to €132.70 per week with our landlord. Will try this and see what he says, he probably will agree but may not, if not there's always the option to move. Has anyone else gotten a letter like this? Thanks.

With regard to rent supplement, all claims are periodically reviewed - usually every 6 months. This is standard practice.

*You state that your LL reduced your rent "...to €140.80 sometime within the last 12 to 18 months" but I am guessing this change was not notified to the CWS (community welfare service).

Up until 31st Dec 2011, all RS recipients must pay a MINIMUM contribution of €24 (on Supplementary Welfare Allowance) or €26 (on a DSP) per week toward their rent.

When your LL reduced the total rent being charged for the property, your contribution of €24 should have continued HOWEVER the level of RS being paid should have reduced, e.g.

Rent €150 per week = Contribution €26 & RS €124 (DSP DA)

Rent €140.80 per week = Contribution €26 & RS €114.80 (DSP DA)

Note - Figures above assume no additional income.

From 1st January 2012, this contribution was increased to €35 (SWA) or €37 (DSP).



**All RS claims, new or existing, are subject to the new limits set by DSP in the December 2011 budget.

It is an impossibility for CWOs (HEOs now) to review all RS at the one time, so claims are reviewed as they fall due.

The guidelines issued by the DSP indicate that a MAXIMUM of 13 weeks notice may be given to claimants to renegotiate with LLs OR find alternative accommodation within the limits.

It is NOT necessary for a change to have occurred in order for a review to be carried out. Reviews are an essential part of managing the CWS schemes - rent, mortgage interest, basic, & other supplements.



***The fact that your rent was reduced by your LL IS a change, but as stated, reviews are standard regardless!

I hope this clarifies things a little!

Best of luck.

ohwell

keredern wrote: »

With regard to rent supplement, all claims are periodically reviewed - usually every 6 months. This is standard practice.

*You state that your LL reduced your rent "...to €140.80 sometime within the last 12 to 18 months" but I am guessing this change was not notified to the CWS (community welfare service).

Up until 31st Dec 2011, all RS recipients must pay a MINIMUM contribution of €24 (on Supplementary Welfare Allowance) or €26 (on a DSP) per week toward their rent.

When your LL reduced the total rent being charged for the property, your contribution of €24 should have continued HOWEVER the level of RS being paid should have reduced, e.g.

Rent €150 per week = Contribution €26 & RS €124 (DSP DA)

Rent €140.80 per week = Contribution €26 & RS €114.80 (DSP DA)

Note - Figures above assume no additional income.

From 1st January 2012, this contribution was increased to €35 (SWA) or €37 (DSP).



**All RS claims, new or existing, are subject to the new limits set by DSP in the December 2011 budget.

It is an impossibility for CWOs (HEOs now) to review all RS at the one time, so claims are reviewed as they fall due.

The guidelines issued by the DSP indicate that a MAXIMUM of 13 weeks notice may be given to claimants to renegotiate with LLs OR find alternative accommodation within the limits.

It is NOT necessary for a change to have occurred in order for a review to be carried out. Reviews are an essential part of managing the CWS schemes - rent, mortgage interest, basic, & other supplements.



***The fact that your rent was reduced by your LL IS a change, but as stated, reviews are standard regardless!

I hope this clarifies things a little!

Best of luck.

Thanks for your reply. My CWO was informed that the rent had fallen in line with the new maximum rent threshold, this was done by way of a rent review form which they send out every now and then. Our contribution did continue, we didn't pay less out of our own pocket. And the amount of RA received did fall.

So, what exactly is a review and what changes does it need to find to alter the current recipients rate of RA or the contribution which they are required to make? I'm wondering how a review can find that your circumstances have changed, when your circumstances haven't changed, lol. The previous rent reduction I'm speaking of was a direct result of a previous rent cap. The rent was reduced in order to fall within the maximum rent threshold.

As it stands we are currently paying a contribution of €34.80 per week towards our rent. They now it seems want us to contribute €37 a week. Makes no sense to me anyway, lol. At the same time they want us to renegotiate our rent downwards with our landlord. He may reduce it, he may not. If he doesn't looks like we pay €37 a week, if he does looks like we pay €35.

Here's the letter in question, btw they've gotten their sums wrong re: calendar month.

keredern

So, what exactly is a review and what changes does it need to find to alter the current recipients rate of RA or the contribution which they are required to make?

A review includes a new means assessment, checks with regard to work status, amount of rent being charged by landlord, & various other administrative checks.

A change in entitlement may occur where additional income is being received through part time earnings, a change in welfare entitlements (your partner is awarded a separate DSP payment), the rent is increased or reduced, a dependent begins earning in their own right, or a third party moves in to the house.

These are just some examples of what may change a claimant's entitlement.

As it stands we are currently paying a contribution of €34.80 per week towards our rent. They now it seems want us to contribute €37 a week.

€37 is the correct minimum contribution for a couple on the basic DSP rate for their family size.

If he doesn't looks like we pay €37 a week, if he does looks like we pay €35.

As stated, your correct minimum is €37 regardless of how much the LL reduces the rent! As long as he keeps the rent to within the limit for your family composition, then you will be fine!

Here's the letter in question, btw they've gotten their sums wrong re: calendar month.

Yes, indeed they have but sure no one's perfect!!!;)

Perhaps you should contact them directly to have your situation clarified?

Admittedly, it's not the best worded letter I have ever read!:o

But all the English scholars were snapped up by Joan Burton's spin doctor department!!!!!!

Please let us know how you get on!

Best of luck.

ohwell

keredern wrote: »

A review includes a new means assessment, checks with regard to work status, amount of rent being charged by landlord, & various other administrative checks.

A change in entitlement may occur where additional income is being received through part time earnings, a change in welfare entitlements (your partner is awarded a separate DSP payment), the rent is increased or reduced, a dependent begins earning in their own right, or a third party moves in to the house.

These are just some examples of what may change a claimant's entitlement.



€37 is the correct minimum contribution for a couple on the basic DSP rate for their family size.



As stated, your correct minimum is €37 regardless of how much the LL reduces the rent! As long as he keeps the rent to within the limit for your family composition, then you will be fine!



Yes, indeed they have but sure no one's perfect!!!;)

Perhaps you should contact them directly to have your situation clarified?

Admittedly, it's not the best worded letter I have ever read!:o

But all the English scholars were snapped up by Joan Burton's spin doctor department!!!!!!

Please let us know how you get on!

Best of luck.

I did send letters earlier this evening to our local CWO and to the person who sent the letter, probably won't get a reply of course, lol. So, will phone and phone and phone and phone until I do get some clarity on it.

You mentioned that it's a €37 contribution for a couple but all the info we can see says €35?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html#l62fd2

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/SupplementaryWelfareAllowance/Pages/RentSupplement.aspx#Rates3

What I still do not understand is the review? There hasn't been any change since the previous rent review was done. Yet it seems they are saying that there has been, lol. When that change -a rent reduction -was made known to them and done in compliance with previous maximum rent threshold reductions in the first instance, lol. When the rent reduction happened at the same time the weekly amount of RA payable to us also reduced and our contribution remained the same. I fail to see the change in circumstance that would mean we are now subjected to the same regime as new applicants are rather than as existing applicants. If you see what I mean?

keredern

You mentioned that it's a €37 contribution for a couple but all the info we can see says €35?

As stated in my previous posts, if you are in receipt of a DSP payment (DA in your case) your minimum contribution is €37 (35 +2).

This is because DSP pays €2 more per week then SWA. Rent or Mortgage Supplements are assessed by bringing the claimant back to the SWA rate for their family size & the extra €2 comes off the rent/mort supplement payable.

An SWA recipient pays €35.

To clarify, the minimum is €35 for a couple but excess income above the SWA rate is assessed.

I fail to see the change in circumstance that would mean we are now subjected to the same regime as new applicants are rather than as existing applicants. If you see what I mean?

I have answered this a couple of times!!

NO change in circumstance is necessary for a review to be undertaken.

Review are done periodically regardless of Budgets, etc.

The changes in the last budget apply to ALL RS recipients & will be implemented on existing claims as & when they fall due for review!

I think you are focusing too much on the wording of your letter relating to the 'change in circumstances', which may have been erroneously included in your case.

BUT the amendments DO apply to you regardless of change or no change in your current circumstances!:eek:

Again, I hope that helps to clarify!:)

ohwell

keredern wrote: »

As stated in my previous posts, if you are in receipt of a DSP payment (DA in your case) your minimum contribution is €37 (35 +2).

This is because DSP pays €2 more per week then SWA. Rent or Mortgage Supplements are assessed by bringing the claimant back to the SWA rate for their family size & the extra €2 comes off the rent/mort supplement payable.

An SWA recipient pays €35.

To clarify, the minimum is €35 for a couple but excess income above the SWA rate is assessed.




I have answered this a couple of times!!

NO change in circumstance is necessary for a review to be undertaken.

Review are done periodically regardless of Budgets, etc.

The changes in the last budget apply to ALL RS recipients & will be implemented on existing claims as & when they fall due for review!

I think you are focusing too much on the wording of your letter relating to the 'change in circumstances', which may have been erroneously included in your case.

BUT the amendments DO apply to you regardless of change or no change in your current circumstances!:eek:

Again, I hope that helps to clarify!:)

Thanks anyway, will check it out further over the coming days. I agree, the letter is a bit confusing alright. Odd that I see no mention of €35 + €2 on any sites I check, welfare.ie or citizens info etc? Will check it out over the coming days. Sent letters off already telling them how wrong they are and how they've misunderstood the new rules etc, lol, they'll just love me! :rolleyes: