licence refusal, my own fault (i think)

niall_b73

so i applied for my licence before christmas and got the refusal shortly after.
i am from n.ireland and have been living in the south for over 5 years now.
previous to applying for the licence, chatting to different members of the shooting community they reckoned i should have no bother getting a licence.

i do have a past but not for murder or the like but there is a record, on the application form where it asks do i have any convictions i said no (stupidly:mad:)

as far as i was aware in the north if a conviction is more than 7 years old it was considered spent and had not relevance.

after i got my refusal i rang the super and asked for a reason for for it and he said it was because i lied and that i should have stated that i had a record !!

on further questioning the super i asked him was there no way around this ?

he stated that i should ask a gun club and see what they say. i am not in a gun club.

then i asked should or when should i apply again and he reconed i should give it 2 years to see how thing are then. i have never had any dealings with the guards in ineland.

i guess i am asking is there any way round this that i could get my licence any quicker.

my son is 14 now and was looking forward to getting into the sport and was dependant on me for getting my licence so as he could get his training cert and get out there.
(and yes, i no !! i should have filled the form in correctly)
anyway,
thanks for reading.

niall_b73

Farmlife

Sorry to hear that. There is a formal procedure to appealing a refusal, If I was in your boat I’d use that, attach a letter outlining what you did, put down if you have learnt your lesson and basic stuff like that. There’s no point in lying about anything because they can find everything out (simple mutual assistance request from PSNI) and if they see your lying about your past in there views what hope is there for the future whilst in possession of a firearm,

The more experienced lads here may throw you more pointers, but that’s my 2 cent

kildare.17hmr

Even if tou put down what you were charged with before they could still refuse you. There was a lad on here refused last year for breaking a baring order 9 years previous, he got on well with his super and they were both involved in youth football but still got refused.

Dont think there is any time frame you have to wait to reapply so id try again. Get in and speak to the super and put your case to him

Glensman

Just for information, convictions in the 6 counties (even cautions) have to be mentioned, basically forever.

Sorry to hear about your refusal. I would appeal using whatever avenue is available.

meathstevie

Niall, you've probably made the worst mistake you could have made in the eyes of the Super by trying to keep hush about previous convictions no matter how minor the offences.

Nowadays it's a very simple matter for the PSNI and the Gardai to find out that sort of information from eachother. Even on a European level it only takes a few days to gather that sort of information.

I read in your post that the Super has advised you to wait about two years and apply again. To me that appears like he/she hasn't made up his/her mind that you are unsuitable to hold firearms but that given your ommissions on your application he/she can not justify making a positive decission at this time. Go with the advise and try again closer to when the two years are up.

Sparks

Reapply now, filling in all the details this time. There's no legal requirement to wait between filings, nor any barring you from applying after a refusal. If refused on that application, you will at least have a definitive reason for the decision that will allow you to decide which way to go at that point.

BTW, you got off pretty lightly - technically, leaving off the past convictions could have been read as providing false data on the form and that would have landed you in very hot water. It would appear from the fact that that didn't happen, that your super is in fact not out to cause you grief!

Ghost.

If your conviction was 7 years ago I don't think you are disentitled to hold a firearm legally. It is down to the discretion of the super to grant it or not.

But I would take it as a positive sign that he didn't give you a flat no for an answer. Especially considering you submitted false information which is a big no no.
Bear in mind the man has no idea of who you are really and all the dealings he has had with you is a phone call and a form with lies about your conviction and past.

I think if you got a few good references and arranged a meeting so he can see who and the type of person he is dealing with and you take the opportunity to explain fully your case it would go along way before submitting another application or an appeal.
There would be a good chance that 2 year wait he said could be reduced.

Be nice , polite and be honest with him.

Sparks

Ghost. wrote: »

If your conviction was 7 years ago I don't think you are disentitled to hold a firearm legally.

Well, kindof. It's more that for certain offences that you're disentitled to apply for a licence. But even if you were entitled to apply, the Super could still refuse you for offences other than those specific ones.

But I would take it as a positive sign that he didn't give you a flat no for an answer. Especially considering you submitted false information which is a big no no.

+1 to that (and the rest of your post).
The OP was really very fortunate.

Spunk84

from the North myself so that rules that out.
Was in the states for 7 years previous before moving back to the south,
Was back a few months and applied for 2 firearms and got them swiftly.
As it was mentioned its the part of not declaring your record that stung you. As it was mentioned try reapplying or even go see your super and explain your past

zacmorris

I feel your pain, I am in the exact same position myself. I don't have s criminal record but got in a bit of trouble 8 years ago. nothing too serious - got probation, so no record.

When I filled out my app for a shotgun- I actually left the part about previous convistions blank so I could discuss with my FO. I spoke to the local FO who was more than helpful throughout the whole process, he went over the app with me in the station I explained that I'd left the form blank. He then ticked YES on the form after we spoke, but when I explained my past etc in more details he then advised me to put down no and not attatch the other info about my past if I DIDNT have a record.

A few weeks later I received a letter form the super asking why I had ticked the YES box but not provide info on my past convictions.

So, I obviously replied by letter and explained the mix-up, politely apologised and basically told him everything(not that he didn't know anyway). I offered to meet with him and said that I would be more than happy to provide further info should he require it.

Weeks passed and I heard nothing, I started to call the supers office every other day to see what the outcome was etc. Eventually after explaining I was heading away for a few months and need a decision before I headed off, the Super in question met with me. He proceeded to tell me I had lied on my application and that based on my past he didn't think I was 'ready' for a gun.

He listed off every dealing I've ever had with the Garda (minor traffic, and some other stuff) the offence I got probation for- fine, obviously we discussed that... But he listed off silly little things 5-6 years ago such as not having my NCT disc displayed in my car (but haveing the cert there and then to show them as well as producing the disc the next day in my local station). He mentioned these things like they were serious offences. As I mentioned I DONT have a criminal record for anything! But I have had fairly minor dealings with the Garda (nothing for assault or fighting or anything aggressive)

The local FO specifically said to me in the station "don't worry about little things like traffic or public order etc" (ironic, ay?). I discussed the various things with him and the fact that I hadn't had one single dealing with the Garda for over three years. He smugly said; "maybe you haven''t been caught doing anything wrong".
He basically told me that he was retiring in a few months and that HE won't be giving me a license. He made various references to the fact he was retiring soon and HE wouldn't be giving me the license. He said "I don't know about the next fella, but I won't be giving you a license. You can do what you like, but I won't be here! " ??
I gathered form the conversation that he may have been implying that I should re-apply when he was gone??? He ended by saying he reckoned I also needed to wait another 2 or 3 years (just like OP) and try again.

To be honest I found the whole thing quite bizzare. I was upfront and honest chatting to him (and though I was throughout the application process) but he seemed to have his mind made up from the min I walked in.

I'll be back home in a few weeks, so the refusal letter should be there in the post- the lads in my local club said to show it to them to see if they can help / make sense of it. Fairly pi**ed off about the whole thing for obvious reasons.
It's also worth mentioning that at the time of application I had been a member of my club for over one year and I also had landowners permission.

I'm considering re-applying when I get home...? Anyone got any thoughts?

kildare.17hmr

Reapply. Has the super retired yet?

It wasn't me!

Yeah, but bear in mind you're going to have to note that you've had a licence application refused now on the form as well. Going to be a pain.

zacmorris

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, but bear in mind you're going to have to note that you've had a licence application refused now on the form as well. Going to be a pain.

Yeah, someone has mentioned that to me before. I wonder would I be better off waiting. I dont want to though, obviously.

@Kildare- yeah, from what he told me when I met him he should be retired now...why do you ask?

Cheers for the replies

Sparks

It's a bummer of a way to highlight how the FO's advice isn't always something to take as gospel
I think I'd call the FPU via my NGB or insurance to see what they'd advise doing as a first step. The form is, after all, quite clear - it asks about convictions (or pending charges) and court orders issued in relation to the use of force against another person.


Not displaying your NCT sticker on the dashboard is not covered by either of those, not matter how much you stretch the english language. The Super is certainly permitted to consider them himself, but he'd have to explain why in a bit more detail; no court would back him up on refusing a firearms certificate because someone had the NCT sticker in the car but hadn't put it on the windscreen. It'd have to be just one item in a long list to illustrate a pattern. But not mentioning that incident on the form is not being in breach of the firearms act because there's no conviction involved.

kildare.17hmr

If he is gone id try get a meeting with the new super and speak to him about it and see what he recomends. He might tell you there is no point in applying or he could turn around and say go ahead and send in the application. All the supers are different and have different opinions on firearms which can be clearly seen in the amount of threads here about licencing, this new guy could be better for firearms owners

snipe02

go and see one of the officers from whatever station you had convictions with and ask them will they back you in an application if they know you well and especially if they knew you from when you were young and they know you are on the straight and narrow now the super might give you a chance worth a try you have nothing to lose if he says no again appeal the decision or wait the 2 years my uncle was in trouble once when he was 12 and had to put that down was told by the fo hed be refused if it came up and he didnt have it down tough break