Plumbers. Charging for failed repair visits?

HicksLennon

Hey,
I'm looking to get some feedback here. I had a plumber out to the house yesterday. He was a decent bloke and obviously charged us for his services. The plumbing he did hasn't fixed the problem and i am back to square one today. I just rang him up and he is coming back out. Considering by his own admission that the problem wasn't fixed on his first visit, should the fee i paid be deducted from the € he will charge for the second visit

gdavis

what was problem,and what did he do?

Billy Bunting

if he has a call out charge he should waiver that, but he can still charge his hourly rate.

goat2

i asked a fellow out to fix my washer about six months ago, he told me that if he could not fix it he was going to charge sixty euro call out, he was a self employed, i told him i do not pay for a not fix, i thought it was cheeky in this day and age to pay for a call out to a fellow doing nixers, so he did fix, charged a whopping eighty for half hour work, there were no parts in this fee,
he lost me then, along with a few potential customers he may have gained in the future,(my friends, family, and neighbours)
word of mouth is the best ad

Billy Bunting

Amazing!! If you go see your Doctor and he diagoses tablets you pay him his €55 ye! if the tablets dont work and you go back he's gona charge you his €55 again, do you find a new Doctor ??

It cost money to run a business, a day full of "no fixes" wont pay the bills.

monkeypants

Maybe a spot of training might sort out some of the "no fixes" for him.

Billy Bunting

monkeypants wrote: »

Maybe a spot of training might sort out some of the "no fixes" for him.

Their ya go! training costs money, a hell of a lot of money, i have spent a fortune and quite a lot of years doing just that but no amount of training will help you fix boilers that are obsolete or fix them economically when they just aint economical to repair.
If i travel to a customers home and spend time diagnosing a fault and giving the customer an estimate for a replacment or repair just to listen to them tell me they wont bother is all very nice for the custard but i wouldnt be in business long if i didnt charge a call out, in some cases i will deduct that charge from the bill if they go ahead with the work, what is unfare about that ?

JohnnieK

Maybe it couldn't be fixed. You would still have to pay for him to come out. He is not a charity. Did you say it was a nixer?

JohnnieK

OP you will have to be more specific as to what the original complaint was and what the plumber did.

Very hard to comment otherwise.

JohnnieK

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Their ya go! training costs money, a hell of a lot of money, i have spent a fortune and quite a lot of years doing just that but no amount of training will help you fix boilers that are obsolete or fix them economically when they just aint economical to repair.
If i travel to a customers home and spend time diagnosing a fault and giving the customer an estimate for a replacment or repair just to listen to them tell me they wont bother is all very nice for the custard but i wouldnt be in business long if i didnt charge a call out, in some cases i will deduct that charge from the bill if they go ahead with the work, what is unfare about that ?

Yeah, and people change there cars more often then there boilers:D.

shane0007

Right behind you all the way on this one, Billy Bunting & JohnnieK.

goat2

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Amazing!! If you go see your Doctor and he diagoses tablets you pay him his €55 ye! if the tablets dont work and you go back he's gona charge you his €55 again, do you find a new Doctor ??

It cost money to run a business, a day full of "no fixes" wont pay the bills.

a day full of no fixes that cost the customers money, means, you lose all those customers and more with them, as they will just let their friends and family know, and they in turn will let others know,
as for the doc and tablets, if he does not fix the problem first time, i do not pay for next visit,
i pay for services and not for no results, dont have the money to trow away for nothing

goat2

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Amazing!! If you go see your Doctor and he diagoses tablets you pay him his €55 ye! if the tablets dont work and you go back he's gona charge you his €55 again, do you find a new Doctor ??

It cost money to run a business, a day full of "no fixes" wont pay the bills.

a day full of no fixes means he is not able to do job,
also means he loses customers, the customers friends and family, and i must be one of the few who refuse to pay for having nothing done, but when i am paid to do something, i will not charge if i dont get the job i was asked to do completed properly, otherwise i would feel bad to expect money for nothing

DGOBS

so good you said it twice...

So, if I came to your house, diagnosed your boiler issue, told you that the part you required is obsolete (so it is impossible to repair your appliance) then you think it's fair to me not to pay for the service I have given you?

I do agree, if I 'fixed' your appliance, and it is still giving the same trouble, I should return to try again, but would normally do this at a reduced rate, or labor free if I believe the error was mine.

I hope your up front with your no fix - no fee to your service engineers (and doctors!) before they spend their time and money visiting your house

Micky Dolenz

A mate of mine brought his sick dog to the vets. emergency surgery was needed, the dog survived the op but died a couple of days later. My mate still has a €1200 bill and no dog.

What was the original problem OP? Most professionals will be concerned about getting you up and running and there would be leeway on cost.

Billy Bunting

goat2 wrote: »

a day full of no fixes that cost the customers money, means, you lose all those customers and more with them, as they will just let their friends and family know, and they in turn will let others know,
as for the doc and tablets, if he does not fix the problem first time, i do not pay for next visit,
i pay for services and not for no results, dont have the money to trow away for nothing

You simply ask the question, DO YOU HAVE A CALL OUT CHARGE, you then decide if you want the call, end of! and as we have aready attempted to explain to you, we can't give you the result if the boiler is obsolete or its uneconomical to repair.

i told him i do not pay for a not fix, i thought it was cheeky in this day and age to pay for a call out

i pay for services and not for no results

Its people with your attitude most Engineers would try to avoid, if we fix it we ripped them off and they mouth off to the world and if we tell them its an uneconomical fix they again get the hump and decide your not worth paying. :rolleyes:

goat2

DGOBS wrote: »

so good you said it twice...

So, if I came to your house, diagnosed your boiler issue, told you that the part you required is obsolete (so it is impossible to repair your appliance) then you think it's fair to me not to pay for the service I have given you?

I do agree, if I 'fixed' your appliance, and it is still giving the same trouble, I should return to try again, but would normally do this at a reduced rate, or labor free if I believe the error was mine.

I hope your up front with your no fix - no fee to your service engineers (and doctors!) before they spend their time and money visiting your house

then you think it's fair to me not to pay for the service I have given you [/QUOTE]

what service did you give me, when you did not fix problem,

[/QUOTE]

I do agree, if I 'fixed' your appliance, and it is still giving the same trouble, I should return to try again, but would normally do this at a reduced rate, or labor free if I believe the error was mine.[/QUOTE]


if you fixed my appliance and it does not work properly, you come back and get it right, there should be no charge, you were already paid to fix problem in first place, whether it takes two or four visits, all the same, you were asked to fix a problem,
it is far easier to keep a good customer, than find a new customer,

goat2

Billy Bunting wrote: »

You simply ask the question, DO YOU HAVE A CALL OUT CHARGE, you then decide if you want the call, end of! and as we have aready attempted to explain to you, we can't give you the result if the boiler is obsolete or its uneconomical to repair.





Its people with your attitude most Engineers would try to avoid, if we fix it we ripped them off and they mouth off to the world and if we tell them its an uneconomical fix they again get the hump and decide your not worth paying. :rolleyes:

i have to apologise here, as when i called my man to fix washer, he did not mention call out charges on the phone, if he had, i would not have hired him in the first place, he did a good job, but 80 for half hour and a spanner, i do think was over the top, fifty would have been more fair in my view, he only live 2 miles away

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

then you think it's fair to me not to pay for the service I have given you

what service did you give me, when you did not fix problem,



I do agree, if I 'fixed' your appliance, and it is still giving the same trouble, I should return to try again, but would normally do this at a reduced rate, or labor free if I believe the error was mine.


if you fixed my appliance and it does not work properly, you come back and get it right, there should be no charge, you were already paid to fix problem in first place, whether it takes two or four visits, all the same, you were asked to fix a problem,
it is far easier to keep a good customer, than find a new customer,

Well then I'll just factor in the possible recalls that may come from a fault and charge you up front then where both happy;)

The idea that a fault can be down to one component or just one issue is a bit silly, at times it can take a couple of visits to put a fault to bed, if a customer isn't happy with that then I'm more than happy to walk away than be seen to be dodgy.

Billy Bunting

goat2 wrote: »

he told me that if he could not fix it he was going to charge sixty euro call out,

He made it clear enough that he had a minimum call out charge, he called out and fixed it, you then get the hump and decide to tell the world. :rolleyes:

goat2

gary71 wrote: »

Well then I'll just factor in the possible recalls that may come from a fault and charge you up front then where both happy;)

The idea that a fault can be down to one component or just one issue is a bit silly, at times it can take a couple of visits to put a fault to bed, if a customer isn't happy with that then I'm more than happy to walk away than be seen to be dodgy.

here again a agree with you, in that if different part is needed, so be it, i would pay for it,
then if you factor in the recalls you may make, would be wrong,

goat2

Billy Bunting wrote: »

He made it clear enough that he had a minimum call out charge, he called out and fixed it, you then get the hump and decide to tell the world. :rolleyes:

he waited till he was in the kitchen looking at said machine to say that

Sam Kade

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

A mate of mine brought his sick dog to the vets. emergency surgery was needed, the dog survived the op but died a couple of days later. My mate still has a €1200 bill and no dog.

Your mate should stop treating his dog like one of the family and let nature take its course, it would be a lot cheaper to replace the dog.

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

here again a agree with you, in that if different part is needed, so be it, i would pay for it,
then if you factor in the recalls you may make, would be wrong,

I go to a boiler, the customer has complained of a intermittent ignition issue, I find the settings wrong on the boiler which can cause ignition problems, I adjust the settings, test for 30 minutes no lockout, I leave.

Next week the job comes out again, I go back, the boilers working fine when I'm there but I know there's still a intermittent fault, do I fit new electrodes, PCB, gas valve, fan etc.. Do I fit everything €€€€, do I do what Bord Gais do and sell you a new boiler or do I go with the part is most likely in the hope I put it to bed.

As a enginner I have to daily make a decision on what is most likely at fault, why should I be out of pocket when the job I do isn't a exact science, just because I may get a recall doesn't mean I havn't earned my money honestly.

goat2

gary71 wrote: »

I go to a boiler, the customer has complained of a intermittent ignition issue, I find the settings wrong on the boiler which can cause ignition problems, I adjust the settings, test for 30 minutes no lockout, I leave.

Next week the job comes out again, I go back, the boilers working fine when I'm there but I know there's still a intermittent fault, do I fit new electrodes, PCB, gas valve, fan etc.. Do I fit everything €€€€, do I do what Bord Gais do and sell you a new boiler or do I go with the part is most likely in the hope I put it to bed.

As a enginner I have to daily make a decision on what is most likely at fault, why should I be out of pocket when the job I do isn't a exact science, just because I may get a recall doesn't mean I havn't earned my money honestly.

i deal with a plumber with the past 15 yrs, delighted with his work and charges, when he come to see the problem and if it needs a new part, he come let me know, he come back with said part and get paid for it on the spot, he does not charge for first call,
then if there is no part needed and he only has to adjust something, he just charges for his time, at a rate of about 30 euro for that,
he is self employed, he knows me as a customer, and know he will be paid with a completed job, no waiting to be paid,
it was my first time dealing with a fellow to fix washer, i will not be calling him again

Micky Dolenz

Sam Kade wrote: »

Your mate should stop treating his dog like one of the family and let nature take its course, it would be a lot cheaper to replace the dog.

Yeah. Im pretty sure he has stopped now, with the dog being dead and all.

Sam Kade

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Yeah. Im pretty sure he has stopped now, with the dog being dead and all.

Until he gets another one.

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

i deal with a plumber with the past 15 yrs, delighted with his work and charges, when he come to see the problem and if it needs a new part, he come let me know, he come back with said part and get paid for it on the spot, he does not charge for first call,
then if there is no part needed and he only has to adjust something, he just charges for his time, at a rate of about 30 euro for that,
he is self employed, he knows me as a customer, and know he will be paid with a completed job, no waiting to be paid,
it was my first time dealing with a fellow to fix washer, i will not be calling him again

What would you do if he was doing something technical that didn't want to play the game, would you expect recalls to go uncharged if the fault was intermittent and the first fix didn't work.

goat2

gary71 wrote: »

What would you do if he was doing something technical that didn't want to play the game, would you expect recalls to go uncharged if the fault was intermittent and the first fix didn't work.

i know him well enough, and he has had to come back to adjust some small thing, he never charged for the recall,

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

i know him well enough, and he has had to come back to adjust some small thing, he never charged for the recall,

We are talking about two different things, but my guess is we wouldn't get on if I was working for you:)

goat2

then gary,
you would lose a good customer who pays before a person leaves the house,

shane0007

goat2 wrote: »

i know him well enough, and he has had to come back to adjust some small thing, he never charged for the recall,

Let's hope he can fix technical issues with boilers so or hope you never get an issue with your boiler!

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

then gary,
you would lose a good customer who pays before a person leaves the house,

One mans good customer is another mans pain in the arse;)

Billy Bunting

goat2 wrote: »

then gary,
you would lose a good customer who pays before a person leaves the house,

Problem is, you only pay if YOU feel it was worth it. I really would rather not have you as a customer but if i was one of the unlucky one you really would only see me once.

goat2

shane0007 wrote: »

Let's hope he can fix technical issues with boilers so or hope you never get an issue with your boiler!

i suppose that he being in the business with the past 20 yrs, he know his job really well, he has always nailed the problem on first call out, experience and knowledge of how the thing works counts, he has never had to second guess the problem, then again i may be one of those customers who are able to explain the problems or (symptoms) that i am having with plumbing, that may be a factor also,
there may be some customers who are not able to express the problems they are having, which means for the plumber that he has to go the extra mile to get to the bottom of the problem,

shane0007

It is no joke being both self employed and an employer. 1/2 hour work is not 1/2hour work. It could take 1/2 hour or more to get to the job, another 1 hour to stand in suppliers to wait for parts, another cost to keep general spares stocked, sundry items that can't really be charged for such as boss white, ptfe, pastes, wipes, tissues, refuse, etc., etc. Another couple of grand for insurances, taxes, etc. More €'s on annual registration fees, annual calibration of equipment, and then get moaned about for charging €80.00 of which €9.52 goes to the VAT man!
No wonder this country is fecked!

DoneDL

HicksLennon wrote: »

Hey,
I'm looking to get some feedback here. I had a plumber out to the house yesterday. He was a decent bloke and obviously charged us for his services. The plumbing he did hasn't fixed the problem and i am back to square one today. I just rang him up and he is coming back out. Considering by his own admission that the problem wasn't fixed on his first visit, should the fee i paid be deducted from the € he will charge for the second visit

If the plumber is as you described above then it`s reasonable to assume that the problem will be fixed and you will be treated fairly. Nobody gets it right all the time.

gdavis

goat,u r great,im surprised u cant solve all ur problems urself

shane0007

goat2 wrote: »

i suppose that he being in the business with the past 20 yrs, he know his job really well, he has always nailed the problem on first call out, experience and knowledge of how the thing works counts, he has never had to second guess the problem,

Jaysus he's a great fella. Never has to second guess a problem. What happens if he comes across a boiler he has never worked on before or new to market. I think you are even building him up too much as I bet he himself would not agree with you and if he saw you moaning about his €80 on here, would he come back to you again!

goat2

ye are coming at me from all angles,
i did not say that i am a know it all, i am just saying that the man who look after my central heating system has never charged me to come look at the problem before he got the part, and usually if he cannot find part or does not have time to get it, i go get for him,

DoneDL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

A mate of mine brought his sick dog to the vets. emergency surgery was needed, the dog survived the op but died a couple of days later. My mate still has a €1200 bill and no dog.

Well done that mate. Sorry it didn`t work out for the best.

goat2

shane0007 wrote: »

Jaysus he's a great fella. Never has to second guess a problem. What happens if he comes across a boiler he has never worked on before or new to market. I think you are even building him up too much as I bet he himself would not agree with you and if he saw you moaning about his €80 on here, would he come back to you again!

it is up to him to update himself with new machines coming on the markets, they all work generally in the same way

DoneDL

DoneDL wrote: »

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

A mate of mine brought his sick dog to the vets. emergency surgery was needed, the dog survived the op but died a couple of days later. My mate still has a €1200 bill and no dog.

Well done that mate. Sorry it didn`t work out for the best.

My mother murdered my dog with bacon and bloody cabbage:(

shane0007

goat2 wrote: »

it is up to him to update himself with new machines coming on the markets, they all work generally in the same way

Of course it is up to him but I am afraid they can vary significantly in how they operate and they all have their wee problems. You are the one who built him up to be able to solve every problem first go. This I assume is on day one of new prodcut to market or even the first time he gets to work on one.

gdavis

goat u r winding people up now,u know a chap by the name of heinbloed per chance?

goat2

gdavis wrote: »

goat u r winding people up now,u know a chap by the name of heinbloed per chance?

i dont know this chappy,
and anyway it is good to have a good auld banter

shane0007

gdavis wrote: »

goat u r winding people up now,u know a chap by the name of heinbloed per chance?

STOP, STOP: Tears are flowing here! Think about what you are saying. He might get involved in this conversation.

goat2

goat2 wrote: »

it is up to him to update himself with new machines coming on the markets, they all work generally in the same way

All due respect, but the nature of fault finding on appliances is knowledge led and everyday is a school day, i'v been fixing gas appliances for 25 years and no matter how arrogant I get there still a job that will put me on my backside, I will and do charge for recalls as I'm a honest man doing a honest job, a lot of defects are intermittent and no amount of skill or training will but a fault to bed.

sh1tstirrer

gary71 wrote: »

DoneDL wrote: »

My mother murdered my dog with bacon and bloody cabbage:(

And it didn't cost you or her a cent unless you take into account of the cost of the bacon and cabbage the dog ate.

goat2

shane0007 wrote: »

Of course it is up to him but I am afraid they can vary significantly in how they operate and they all have their wee problems. You are the one who built him up to be able to solve every problem first go. This I assume is on day one of new prodcut to market or even the first time he gets to work on one.

it is in his best interest to understand the workings of these machines, it is his bread and butter,
updating himself,

shane0007

That's it. Yer man is a master coz he is a HEATING ENGINEER!