Digital Cams & more

Hi there, I have a Sony Bravia KDL-32V4000 and was wondering if someone can recommend me a good digital CAM as it's MPEG2 digital decoding. I read somewhere that Neotions work on it but I can't decide which one. It's a PCCAM slot on the TV anyhow I think. I just want a good quality one that can decode MPEG4 to MPEG2, cheapish. I can get the sound and EPG to work.

Are Cams still supported?

Thanks!

P.S I don't want to buy those HDMI Set top Saorview boxes because I mainly use my AppleTV and I just want to have a normal Digital TV, I doesn't need to like HD quality (That's impossible anyway because my TV is MPEG2) But you know, once I can see faces. I have clear digital signal as my MPEG4 TV in the living room thats fully compatible has great quality.


Also while were at it, I have two saorview compatible tvs, one in the living room and one in the sunroom. The one in the living room can pick up Digital but the one in the sunroom can't. (When we had old TVs in those rooms the room with the KDL-32V4000 could pick up digital but didn't work).

In the attic we have a 4 switch tv FTE UMS cable thing. No set top boxes. Were using a ZinTek service that's €70 a year. I just don't understand why only 1 tv can pickup saorview and not the other 3 (technically)

STB

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi there, I have a Sony Bravia KDL-32V4000 and was wondering if someone can recommend me a good digital CAM as it's MPEG2 digital decoding. I read somewhere that Neotions work on it but I can't decide which one. It's a PCCAM slot on the TV anyhow I think. I just want a good quality one that can decode MPEG4 to MPEG2, cheapish. I can get the sound and EPG to work.

No. They dont work. They dont do HD for a start (RTE2 is HD) and irrespective of that the CAM wont help the tuner tune in non MPEG2 streams because it is outside its technical ability and will ignore them in a channel scan (or at least its meant to!!!!). You are getting no video because mpeg2 doesnt decode mpeg4 video regardless of SD or HD - ALL Saorview broadcsts are MPEG4. Those CAMS also heat up...... a lot.

Your integrated digital tuner in the Sony is redundant.

St Senan

what's a Zin Tek service costing €70 a year

scaller

scaller wrote: »

what's a Zin Tek service costing €70 a year

It was a local service bought by http://www.zintek.ie/ I think the idea was that if you didn't want to upgrade your equipment just stay on the service. This has been around since the 90s, there's no box or anything. Goes through the analog input. Using a local community aerial we get Irish channels + some free to air english ones.

STB wrote: »

No. They dont work. They dont do HD for a start (RTE2 is HD) and irrespective of that the CAM wont help the tuner tune in non MPEG2 streams because it is outside its technical ability and will ignore them in a channel scan (or at least its meant to!!!!). You are getting no video because mpeg2 doesnt decode mpeg4 video regardless of SD or HD - ALL Saorview broadcsts are MPEG4. Those CAMS also heat up...... a lot.

Your integrated digital tuner in the Sony is redundant.

Dang it, TG for Netflix and american itunes giftcards!

I was looking at this: http://www.zintek.ie/irish-digital-terrestrial/saorview-free-to-air-self-install-kit.html

Gets you all digital HD irish channels + english ones. Is that the whole 28 satellite thing?

I notice it comes with 1x SAB Titan II HD Combo P. I'm guessing you plug that into the TV and it's your tuner. If your TV already has MPEG4 MHEG5 tuners do you need a box or will it work directly with the DVT?

STB

Em stop paying Zintek for that!

That Sab titan box will do that anyhow. It combines British FTA channels (off satellite) and Saorview (off aerial) in one channel list. You would need one for each TV though. You will see them referred to them here as combo boxes.

There is also other boxes like the Ferguson Ariva 120 (apx €90/100). You can also record to a USB connected device or play films from them.

There are plenty of combo boxes that also have smart functionality - youtube etc but go up in price and user friendliness.

STB

STB wrote: »

Em stop paying Zintek for that!

That Sab titan box will do that anyhow. It combines British FTA channels (off satellite) and Saorview (off aerial) in one channel list. You would need one for each TV though. You will see them referred to them here as combo boxes.

There is also other boxes like the Ferguson Ariva 120 (apx €90/100). You can also record to a USB connected device or play films from them.

There are plenty of combo boxes that also have smart functionality - youtube etc but go up in price and user friendliness.

Yugh, I hate Boxes. Is there a way to get around it. I have smart internet TVs that when on digital can record.

At the very least Is there any boxes that work with universal remotes because at the most I only want 2 "TV remote" and "Apple TV remote"

But I think your right, get rid of the Zintek.

Mr.Biscuits

Deleted User wrote: »

Yugh, I hate Boxes. Is there a way to get around it.

I was in the same boat - Bravia (23" portable) and was bought to use in multiple places (kitchen, bedroom and even a boat) and so set-top box was out.

I also looked into the whole CAM card thing but there seems to be so much conflicting info online regarding them that I looked elsewhere and the only solution I found was to buy a small scart tuner:




I bought mine in Maplins and so not sure if the above one is MPEG-4 or not.

watty

Only buy items from this list unless you can receive Welsh, N.I. or IOM TV.
http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/saorview-approved-product-listings/

Anything else is a big risk. BUT if you can/could receive UK TV via an aerial, then buy a "Freeview HD" box (not "Freeview") known to not have too many compatibility issues with Saorview (Sony or Humax but not Panasonic, not Technisat) see http://www.saortv.info/about/n-i-digital/


Maplin is full of grossly overpriced and poorly compatible products. That Mini-set box hanging on a SCART plug isn't fully compatible.

Why "CAM"s don't work and other incompatible products
http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/

Mr.Biscuits

watty wrote: »

That Mini-set box hanging on a SCART plug isn't fully compatible.

The OP stated that he had no interest in HD (not that HD could be received via a scart anyway) and so that is why I am mentioning them here as a solution to the OP's dilemma.

For those stuck with a MPEG-2 TV and who just want to be able to pick up Irish Digital without having to use set-top boxes (as was the case with myself) - then scart tuners are a perfectly fine option.

Yes there are junk scart tuners out there but there are also junk set-top boxes out there also and so that is no reason to avoid what can be useful product for solving the issue of those that have a MPEG-2 TV which will become a brick come October 24th as they are without/unwilling-to-own a set-top box.

STB

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

The OP stated that he had no interest in HD (not that HD could be received via a scart anyway) and so that is why I am mentioning them here as a solution to the OP's dilemma.

For those stuck with a MPEG-2 TV and who just want to be able to pick up Irish Digital without having to use set-top boxes (as was the case with myself) - then scart tuners are a perfectly fine option.

Yes there are junk scart tuners out there but there are also junk set-top boxes out there also and so that is no reason to avoid what can be useful product for solving the issue of those that have a MPEG-2 TV which will become a brick come October 24th as they are without/unwilling-to-own a set-top box.

RTE2HD only transmits in HD there is no SD version. Are you picking up RTE2HD with it ? Yes ? Then its fine.

The thing is to be careful buying those things. Make sure they Say MPEG4 H264 Level 4 (some say MPEG4 H264 L3 but they are no good as they are for standard definition broadcasts only) or it will not clear nor display the RTE2HD Channel at all regardless of how you have it connected to the TV. Of course scart is undoing the digital nature of the reception, but there are HDMI versions of that particular device on sale for about €25 or so on the web. Fine for those who dont want a box I suppose.

@ Mr Biscuits. Your picture, Unless you connect the powerlead to that, it wont work!

watty

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

For those stuck with a MPEG-2 TV and who just want to be able to pick up Irish Digital without having to use set-top boxes (as was the case with myself) - then scart tuners are a perfectly fine option.

Only if they are on the Saorview list. ALL Saorview approved boxes MUST give an SD SCART output to get approval. There is no assurance ANYTHING else works properly.

All Saorview approved boxes will work on ANY TV that has a SCART!

Mr.Biscuits

watty wrote: »

Only if they are on the Saorview list.

Sorry, but this is incorrect.

They do NOT have to be on the list to be perfectly fine to use.

watty wrote: »

ALL Saorview approved boxes MUST give an SD SCART output to get approval. There is no assurance ANYTHING else works properly.

Of course but that's not to say that just because a device (be it a set-top box, scart or USB tuner) is NOT on the list, that it is then 'incompatible' with Saorview.

It may very well be incompatible, that is true - but the way you are speaking is as if: 'Should it not be on the list - well then it is not capable of down scaling HD to SD' - and that is just untrue.

watty wrote: »

All Saorview approved boxes will work on ANY TV that has a SCART!

Of course, but devices aprroved by Saorview are not exclusive in having that function.

I own a Kworld USB Stick tuner and have being watching RTE 2 HD on my Laptop. Had I waited for Saorview to rubber stamp the device, I would have been without while at work for the past seven months.

What I think would be more helpful for people that are in the market for such devices is for them to being given the correct information with regards to just what technical specifications that they need to make sure (Set-top-boxes, USB sticks and the like) specifically need to have in order for them to work long term, with regards to being able to pick up Saorview channels and down scale to SD.

If the Saorview approval list currently included all devices that have that function - then I would agree with what your comments, but it doesn't and so I don't.

watty

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Sorry, but this is incorrect.

They do NOT have to be on the list to be perfectly fine to use.

But you need a proper test lab and test suite for Nordig and MHEG5 to prove it. My point is that it's impossible to know.

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

What I think would be more helpful for people that are in the market for such devices is for them to being given the correct information with regards to just what technical specifications that they need to make sure (Set-top-boxes, USB sticks and the like) specifically need to have in order for them to work long term, with regards to being able to pick up Saorview channels and down scale to SD.

If the Saorview approval list currently included all devices that have that function - then I would agree with what your comments, but it doesn't and so I don't.

You are giving incorrect information.

A USB stick relies entirely on the correct PC software, it simply has to be DVB-T for Ireland (or DVB-T2 for UK for HD). Bad example. The approval procedure is to give assurance about set-boxes and IDTVs.

Without your own test lab you can't know what "function" a setbox or TV has. PC cards or USB sticks rely on particular spec of computer and graphics card, version of OS and software. It's not intended the Certification program should cover them.

It's irresponsible at this stage for people to recommend non-saorview setboxes or idtv unless it's "Freeview HD" certified and for NI, IOM or Welsh terrestrial reception.

Similarly no Retailer can claim an uncertified box or tv is compatible, that contravenes "Sale of Goods" legislation. Only Certified boxes and TVs can be sold as compatible.

The best you can say with a generic DVB-T MPEG4 H.264 L3 & L4 box is that it seems to pickup TV & Radio. You can't claim it's compatible or will continue to do what it does today. You may think MHEG5 is pointless, but it's a mandatory part of compatibility.

Saorview certification is "peace of mind" and no guess work for the consumer of Set box or TV. It's not really relevant for USB stick or PCI card, to certify such you would have to sell an entire Laptop/PC package pre-configured. It's theoretically possible but pointless. Apple could do it, or Someone+Microsoft.

If you have your own test lab:
http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_ver_2.2.pdf
http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/Minimum_Receiver_Requirements_5.pdf
http://www.techtir.ie/sites/default/files/TeracomDTTreceiverFAQ2010-06-008.pdf
These people will give you a free test suite for Royalty free MHEG5 http://www.impala.org/deployments

Other Information
http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/
MHEG5 is being used to put up an information screen if you select RTEjr while RTE1+1 is running. Unlike Teletext or Nicam it is not a thing of itself but a platform or "engine" to run applications that can be added or changed on the Saorview service. It's far more important than Nicam or Teletext on an Analogue TV. It's not "Digital Text". That's just one application for MHEG5.

Mr.Biscuits

Wow there watty ..

watty wrote: »

But you need a proper test lab and test suite for Nordig and MHEG5 to prove it.

I never said anything regarding devices having MHEG5.

watty wrote: »

You are giving incorrect information.

A USB stick relies entirely on the correct PC software, it simply has to be DVB-T for Ireland (or DVB-T2 for UK for HD). Bad example. The approval procedure is to give assurance about set-boxes and IDTVs.

I am not saying anything to the contrary - I am just pointing out that people are in the position where they have no choice but to buy products that are not Saorview approved and they always will. Specification is what people need to be educated on - not the approval of Saorview.

watty wrote: »

Without your own test lab you can't know what "function" a setbox or TV has. PC cards or USB sticks rely on particular spec of computer and graphics card, version of OS and software. It's not intended the Certification program should cover them.

I gather they are different in design but that it in no way negates my point. Just because the software and hardware components are separated does not take away from the fact that they share the same purpose: to decode and display digital signals.

watty wrote: »

It's irresponsible at this stage for people to recommend non-saorview setboxes or idtv unless it's "Freeview HD" certified and for NI, IOM or Welsh terrestrial reception.

How is it "irresponsible" when the device is L4?

watty wrote: »

Similarly no Retailer can claim an uncertified box or tv is compatible, that contravenes "Sale of Goods" legislation. Only Certified boxes and TVs can be sold as compatible.

Eh, of course.

watty wrote: »

You may think MHEG5 is pointless, but it's a mandatory part of compatibility.

Where did I say it was pointless??

You are acting as if the OP was looking for a MHEG5 tuner that would display HD content and be future compliant in that regard - he didn't. All he wants is an to watch Irish Digital on an LCD and has no interest in anything else. An L4 Scart is the only solution to what is requesting.

What do you suggest he does?

watty wrote: »

Saorview certification is "peace of mind" and no guess work for the consumer of Set box or TV.

As I said - I take that point, but that in no way means that current (and future) NON 'Saorview Approved' set top boxes will not be perfectly adequate to use to watch Irish digital. There will never ever be some kind of utopia where people will only buy 'Saorview approved' devices - it just will never happen.

What will (and should) happen is that people know what specs devices should have in order for them to view Irish digital in the way that THEY want to. If someone is quite happy watching HD down scaled and never having then option of MHEG5 - that's their business and nobody should be telling them different.