Haye v Chisora Poll

runboyrun

This is actually an interesting fight to me now.

Who do you feel wins.

RiseToTheTop

Chisora

runboyrun wrote: »

This is actually an interesting fight to me now.

Who do you feel wins.

Haye IMO but if we saw the same Chisora that fought Helenius and Vitali anything could happen.

I highly doubt it would go the distance though.

cowzerp

I'd be hoping for a double ko in this match up.

runboyrun

Chisora

After what's happened the build-up to this fight would be epic!

Can you imagine an HBO type Face Off between Haye and Chisora

This would do big numbers in the UK

ebbsy

If you take it solely on their last fight Chisora would win, possibly on points. He can't let the punches go at heavyweight and does not have the appetite for a real fight.

Which is what Chisora will drag him into.

runboyrun

Chisora

Judging by the poll result so far people are split on who would win. This makes for an interesting fight, especially considering the recent drama.

This is a genuine grudge match and personally I would love to see what happens.

Jayob10

Chisora

a real UK Boxing match up from the gutter.

And Sky (if they showed it) would play it out to the casual fans like they are the best fighters on the planet.

runboyrun

Chisora

Ha ha yeah

If Sky were promoting this it would seem like Ali v Frazier 4

Cardinal Richelieu

Venue Munich prison?

plasmaguy

This fight will never happen.

Haye will probably be banned for life from boxing for punching Chisora with a bottle, and rightly so.

Chisora also will received a lenghty ban, also rightly so.

I know boxing matches have to be hyped up, but this crossed the line into criminality, and was no more than two thugs fighting with each other. It has no place in boxing.

By the way, it looked like Hayes coach received the cut when Haye threw the camera stand, another cowardly act, and not from anyone throwing a bottle. Both Haye and Chisora are a disgrace and bums, and highlights the type of bums the Klitchkos have been fighting for years now.

colly10

Chisora

plasmaguy wrote: »

highlights the type of bums the Klitchkos have been fighting for years now.

You can't fight guys that don't exist, the likes of Lewis just isn't out there at the moment and you can only beat what's put in front of you. Vitali is fighting at the top level for over a decade and deserved the win in his only 2 losses.
Wlad is a former olympic gold medalist who has been at the top of the game for many years.

Some don't like their style but it's difficult to argue that their not great at what they do.

Some even criticise them saying they have a robotic personality but we could see from the Haye fight Wlad was the only one with any real personality (despite Haye getting so much credit for being a great personality in boxing).

If these guys we're English or American, they would be talked up as the best thing ever

plasmaguy

I'm not disputing they are good possibly even great boxers and probably would give any fighter, eg Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Foreman and so on problems and probably beat them at their peak.

Still would be nice to see a boxer up against them who isn't either second rate, past it, there for a paycheck, or a retirement fund like Haye seems to want.

If Haye really wants to be world champion (again), why not stick around for a few years, the state the division is in, he'd be world champion in a few years as he is still young in boxing terms.

He needs to be a real fighter, not someone who gatecrashes press conferences. He's become a bit of a joke now, with all his excuses.

boxer.fan

Who Wins??

Haye


Chisora

The Promoter

Spazdarn

Chisora

plasmaguy wrote: »

I'm not disputing they are good possibly even great boxers and probably would give any fighter, eg Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Foreman and so on problems and probably beat them at their peak.

Still would be nice to see a boxer up against them who isn't either second rate, past it, there for a paycheck, or a retirement fund like Haye seems to want.

If Haye really wants to be world champion (again), why not stick around for a few years, the state the division is in, he'd be world champion in a few years as he is still young in boxing terms.

He needs to be a real fighter, not someone who gatecrashes press conferences. He's become a bit of a joke now, with all his excuses.

It would be a much better idea, to take on the likes of Chisora, Povetkin, Adamek and Solis, build up a decent resume, dispel his shoddy reputation and take on an aged Vitali, followed by Wlad.

It's just not going to happen

kryogen

The poll lacks a who cares option tbh

kryogen

colly10 wrote: »

You can't fight guys that don't exist, the likes of Lewis just isn't out there at the moment and you can only beat what's put in front of you.

Some don't like their style but it's difficult to argue that their not great at what they do.

If these guys we're English or American, they would be talked up as the best thing ever

This.

A thousand times this!

Especially the bolded bit

RiseToTheTop

Chisora

colly10 wrote: »

If these guys we're English or American, they would be talked up as the best thing ever

I don't think so. Great American fighters of the past were exciting and enthralled the crowd. I can't ever recollect any of the American greats being as cautious as the Klitschko's. Going to recent times, Tyson/Bowe/Holyfield/Lewis (English), none of these guys where as cautios as the Klitschko's. They were exciting, any American/English/European/Mauritian would like that fighter.

The Klitschko's only appear to be very popular in Germany, whereas the past greats were very popular worldwide.

If the Klitschko's were in the mold of a prime Tyson, trust me, i'd like them and look forward to their fights very much.

walshb

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I don't think so. Great American fighters of the past were exciting and enthralled the crowd. I can't ever recollect any of the American greats being as cautious as the Klitschko's. Going to recent times, Tyson/Bowe/Holyfield/Lewis (English), none of these guys where as cautios as the Klitschko's. They were exciting, any American/English/European/Mauritian would like that fighter.

The Klitschko's only appear to be very popular in Germany, whereas the past greats were very popular worldwide.

If the Klitschko's were in the mold of a prime Tyson, trust me, i'd like them and look forward to their fights very much.

I sort of agree here. I still think many US fight fans would not warm to them. Their style is just quite bland. I mean, Vitali is very cumbersome, awkward and at times sloppy. Wlad is more fluid, but far too cautious and tentative.

The U.S had many heavies from the past that were infinitely more exciting and fluid and enjoyable to watch.

The yanks aren't raving about Ward, and he's a hell of a tactician. But, his style is just not to their liking.

runboyrun

Chisora

Agree totally

The Klits are not popular worldwide because of their boring style

For anyone to suggest it's because of their nationality is not right

Also they don't fight often in the US to gain proper exposure

Most of their fights are in Germany and the general consensus that most fighters who fight predominantly in Germany are protected fighters who are often afforded home town decisions

While the Klits have usually won without any ambiguity I feel they are viewed as boring fighters who don't want to travel to the US too often

kryogen

List off some great heavyweight champions from outside the US and Britain, who were popular worldwide and talked up in the media?

If they were American they would be spun differently by the media, the good points of their style highlighted and the negatives less focused on.

I understand the differences, but look at Mayweather, he is quite a defensive boxer, some call him boring, but he is American, so he is promoted in a different way. Nothing negative about Mayweather here, it just popped into my head as a comparison to illustrate a point.

Protected cause they fight in Germany? come on now, have you ever seen a fight where it looked like they needed to be protected? Vitali more so then Wlad on that point.

I remember Haye saying something about it around the Valuev time alright, funnily enough on a split decision Haye got the belt, fighting in Germany didnt save Valuev.

They are not the most exciting heavyweights of course, but they are damn good at what they do, they are incredibly hard to beat and they have taken apart anything that has been put in front of them for years now. I dont think its unfair to say if they were American or British they would receive far more favorable press, and more credit.

They are very different to most boxers anyway, cant think of other champs who have PHD's off the top of my head

runboyrun

Chisora

kryogen wrote: »

List off some great heavyweight champions from outside the US and Britain, who were popular worldwide and talked up in the media?

If they were American they would be spun differently by the media, the good points of their style highlighted and the negatives less focused on.

I understand the differences, but look at Mayweather, he is quite a defensive boxer, some call him boring, but he is American, so he is promoted in a different way. Nothing negative about Mayweather here, it just popped into my head as a comparison to illustrate a point.

Protected cause they fight in Germany? come on now, have you ever seen a fight where it looked like they needed to be protected? Vitali more so then Wlad on that point.

I remember Haye saying something about it around the Valuev time alright, funnily enough on a split decision Haye got the belt, fighting in Germany didnt save Valuev.

They are not the most exciting heavyweights of course, but they are damn good at what they do, they are incredibly hard to beat and they have taken apart anything that has been put in front of them for years now. I dont think its unfair to say if they were American or British they would receive far more favorable press, and more credit.

They are very different to most boxers anyway, cant think of other champs who have PHD's off the top of my head

1) There haven't been many HW champions outside of US & Britain

2) Mayweather was unpopular during his early to middle career....HBO constantly highlighted his safe non exciting style....he din't draw big crowds. It took time for Mayweather to grow into an exciting fighter due to his flamboyant, arrogant, cocky personality. He could sell and promote any fight very well. ALso his exceptional skills earned his praise. If mayweather had a boring personality or a more reserved personality e.g. Ricardo Lopez, I don't think he would be as popular today. If Klitschko had Floyd's personality I'm sure he would be hugely popular all over the world.

3) As I said previously German fighters are seen as protected but I also said up till now the Klits have been dominant so there was no controversey with their fights. But as a whole German fighters are seen as protected e.g. Sturm, Michaelchevski, Ottke, Stieglitz etc. etc.

4) Nobody is denying the Klits are good and also dominant but you have to acknowledge that Professional Boxing is entertainment above all else.....people are paying money to be entertained. Nobody wants to see boring fighters.

5) They are different from most other boxers in that they have phd's etc. but the public don't care about that....they don't want to be intellectually stimulated by the fighters, they want to see action adn be entertained so I don't thinking having phd's makes them anymore appealing as fighters although it does separate them from the majority in other areas although there are plenty examples of fighters being well qualified and intellectual e.g. Cleverley, Barrera etc.

walshb

What I find odd is trying to compare the styles of Floyd and the Klits. Floyd is poetry in motion. Every inch moves in sync. Pure fluid, balance and coordination. Safety first or not, the guy is something to watch, even when he's doing little, he looks more pleasing to the eye than both Klits.

cowzerp

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I don't think so. Great American fighters of the past were exciting and enthralled the crowd. I can't ever recollect any of the American greats being as cautious as the Klitschko's. Going to recent times, Tyson/Bowe/Holyfield/Lewis (English), none of these guys where as cautios as the Klitschko's. They were exciting, any American/English/European/Mauritian would like that fighter.

Lewis was very safety 1st and for most of his career people gave out that he was negative, in fairness the Klitschos sometimes get called boring but never negative.

Lewis had similar tools than the Brothers and knocked out less opponents and at times watching him was torture.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Lewis was very safety 1st and for most of his career people gave out that he was negative, in fairness the Klitschos sometimes get called boring but never negative.

Lewis had similar tools than the Brothers and knocked out less opponents and at times watching him was torture.

LL could well be tentative and cautious, a lot more so after his KO losses, but I really think he was a more fluid and balanced fighter than both Klits.

Klits damn effective, juts quite boring for me. I see clumsines a lot of the times. I know that being so big can hinder, and they do show skill for their size, but they also show clumsiness as well.

colcar

i hope chisora and haye fight and the winner gets another go at a klitschko then. i hope chisora hammers him if they do fight haye is a muppet never liked him, chisora is a thug but at least he tried to stand toe to toe and fight. IMO haye looks the bigger fool after the last night he came into chisoras interview to wind him up chisora responded foolishly but haye practically glassed him and then assaulted his own manager with a camera stand WTF? i thiught this baboon is meant to be a pro fighter?????

walshb

I can see no other result apart from a KO win for Vit or Wlad should Chisora ever get a rematch. I can't see why anyone would wanna' see that again. Haye too gets beaten decisively. These two giys should stick to fighting at their level, which is a level below Klit most definitely.

RiseToTheTop

Chisora

@kryogen

Mayweather has been ridiculed on air because of his boring style of fighting. Larry Merchant has pointed out multiple times to his face that Floyd is boring, and pointing out that fans are leaving the arena's in the 10th and 11th rounds.

I think that brings out another question. The Klitschko are not exciting, they don't go for knockouts. Yet there fans still cheer them and but every ticket, yet in America fans leave after 10 rounds of a boring fight. Probably shows a difference in public thought or different in culture.

corny

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

@kryogen

Mayweather has been ridiculed on air because of his boring style of fighting. Larry Merchant has pointed out multiple times to his face that Floyd is boring, and pointing out that fans are leaving the arena's in the 10th and 11th rounds.

I think that brings out another question. The Klitschko are not exciting, they don't go for knockouts. Yet there fans still cheer them and but every ticket, yet in America fans leave after 10 rounds of a boring fight. Probably shows a difference in public thought or different in culture.

You are aware that Vitali has the highest KO percentage of any heavyweight champion in the history of the sport.

And there's nothing boring about Floyd for any purist. I'm hardly a purist but i love watching him.

RiseToTheTop

Chisora

Yes, but Vitali systemically breaks down opponents. I say the vast majority of his knockouts have been after 8/9 rounds. Plus you have to take in hand the opposition. Marciano had fairly weak opposition as well and had a very high knockout percentage.

Regards Floyd, IMO he has been boring, though since his comeback he has started to be more exciting.

kryogen

Mayweather, as I said, is called boring in certain parts, but everything the guy does in the ring is excellent to me, every move he makes is calculated and fluid, he is an expert counter puncher. Of course this will lead to him being labelled boring, and I guess judging him by certain criteria he is boring.

Vitali has the highest knockout percentage of any heavyweight champ ever, now you can pick holes in that stat if you like, but you certainly cant say he doesnt go for KO's considering it.

You say FM has been ridiculed on air for being boring etc, do you concede however that he does get credit for his abilities? He is recognised as one of the best to wear gloves. I always feel the Klitschko's dont get the respect they deserve, its just how I have always seen it. They can only beat whats in front of them. They have destroyed the heavyweight division and have had to resort to scraping the barrel with the likes of Haye and Chisora!

What more can they do? They do have skills, they are technically proficient, they are tactically astute and they are disciplined. They are not flash by any stretch of the imagination, but for me thats not just what boxing is about. Sure we all love a KO and a guy dazzling his opponent with fancy combos etc, but the level they have mastered the art of boxing is impressive to me and I will always commend them on it.

tryingmybestt

Chisora

Mayweather is top class, one of the best defensive fighters ever .....excellent silky skills

A big part of vitali's game is his immense size, reach etc.

Mayweather often fights guys bigger but his A1 skills come to the fore

how would vitali fare against ppl bigger than him, i doubt he would be so dominant

vitali has no inside game, both klits hold on the inside

his speed isn't great, nor his footwork.....his defence is one dimensional i.e. leaning back out of reach due to his huge size

above all his fights are snooze fests

kryogen

I'd disagree, he is a very good boxer from a technical point of view also.

Using the size a stick to beat is silly. His boxing skills are excellent and why shouldnt he use his size to his advantage also?

RXMPS

tryingmybestt wrote: »

Mayweather is top class, one of the best defensive fighters ever .....excellent silky skills

A big part of vitali's game is his immense size, reach etc.

Mayweather often fights guys bigger but his A1 skills come to the fore

how would vitali fare against ppl bigger than him, i doubt he would be so dominant

vitali has no inside game, both klits hold on the inside

his speed isn't great, nor his footwork.....his defence is one dimensional i.e. leaning back out of reach due to his huge size

above all his fights are snooze fests

Lewis was alot more skilled than Vitali and of equal size.

Lewis 6'5, 240lb+, a big man.

Just as big as Vitali and he did this to him.




He couldn't use his size advantage against Lewis and the result was clear.A prime Lewis would have sparked him out and demolished his brother in the early rounds.

Vitali would have had a very hard time against other big guys like Lewis, the likes of Bowe, Tucker, etc imo.

kryogen

RXMPS wrote: »

Lewis was alot more skilled than Vitali and of equal size.

Lewis 6'5, 240lb+, a big man.

Just as big as Vitali and he did this to him.




He couldn't use his size advantage against Lewis and the result was clear.A prime Lewis would have sparked him out and demolished his brother in the early rounds.

Vitali would have had a very hard time against other big guys like Lewis, the likes of Bowe, Tucker, etc imo.

You realise Vitali was ahead in that fight on all three judges scorecards and wanted to continue himself but the fight doc wouldnt allow him?

He was winning the fight so yes your right, he couldnt use his size advantage as much against Lewis (he still had one in terms of height) and the result was still going his way.

Littlehorny

You cant compare the Klitchkos or Lewis to guys like Mayweather and the simple fact is their size. THe 3 big men mentioned above are/were very athletic for their size all about the 2 metre tall mark and seventeen stone plus in weight.
No Heavyweight as big as Lewis was as agile as him, before him the huge Heavies were lumbering and slow. Its like Ali when he came along in the 60s, no big man moved like him before and he was a revelation.
Anyway getting back on topic, regarding Haye vs Chisora, do real boxing fans want to see these 2 scumbags make millions from the sport we love?
Hope the 2 of them are banned for life.

kryogen

No absolutely not

RiseToTheTop

Chisora

kryogen wrote: »

Vitali has the highest knockout percentage of any heavyweight champ ever, now you can pick holes in that stat if you like, but you certainly cant say he doesnt go for KO's considering it.

Well Marciano is about 1% to 1.5% behind Vitali in KO ratio. (if not ahead of Vitali after his decision against Chisora.)

Yet would you think Vitali would beat Marciano?

kryogen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Well Marciano is about 1% to 1.5% behind Vitali in KO ratio. (if not ahead of Vitali after his decision against Chisora.)

Yet would you think Vitali would beat Marciano?

Your changing the subject for some reason?

Didnt mention anything regarding Vitali v Marciano

You said the Klitschkos dont go for KO's, you are wrong, simply by the fact that Vitali has the highest KO % ever of heavyweights.

Dont try to go even further off topic simply because you were wrong in your assumption.

colly10

Chisora

RXMPS wrote: »

He couldn't use his size advantage against Lewis and the result was clear.

Lewis was loosing the fight when it was stopped, if he was alot more skilled he probably would have demolished Vitali.
Lewis won a fight he was loosing due to a cut and a cut can happen to anyone

Daroxtar

Rocky is 43ko/49 wins - 87.755%
Vitali is 40ko/44 wins - 90.909%
Frank Bruno 38ko/40 wins - 95%
Just sayin...

walshb

Rocky's KO percentage is the best of the three.

RiseToTheTop

Chisora

kryogen wrote: »

Your changing the subject for some reason?

Didnt mention anything regarding Vitali v Marciano

You said the Klitschkos dont go for KO's, you are wrong, simply by the fact that Vitali has the highest KO % ever of heavyweights.

Dont try to go even further off topic simply because you were wrong in your assumption.

No, i'm arguing your point about the importance of the highest KO ratio of any champion being important. You mentioned Vitali having the highest KO ratio of any Heavyweight champion as an arguing point in 2 of your posts.

If you think the Klitschko's go for KO's, how come they don't have many 1st/2nd round KO's? They lack power only early on?

RXMPS

colly10 wrote: »

Lewis was loosing the fight when it was stopped, if he was alot more skilled he probably would have demolished Vitali.
Lewis won a fight he was loosing due to a cut and a cut can happen to anyone

Look at his face.Look at his eye closing up.

Lewis might not have been winning on the score cards, for shots landed and all that crap.

But he had his man's face bust up, I would have loved if the fight went on, Vitali would have lost an eye and would have never fought again.

Pity the doc stopped it.

Vitali didn't win anything, he got cut and bust up, because Lewis was alot more skilled and repeatedly slammed his face and eye area.

Lewis would have pounded him even worse 5 years previous.

Lewis the old fat champ, beat the young future champ.

When has that ever happened in the heavies?

Can you imagine an old fat Holmes beating a young Tyson who would go on to dominate the division for years.

Highly unlikely that.

colly10

Chisora

RXMPS wrote: »

Look at his face.Look at his eye closing up.

I was messing with a mate a while ago and accidently caught him with a light jab above the eye, it took 15 minutes to stop the blood flow and it looked like he'd been in a war.
Ye Vitali looks in bits in the pic but you have to look at the reality, get a cut like that above the eye and it can get very messy

walshb

I had Vit ahead, but it wasn't like he was dominating. Lewis was coming on, and it's a possibilty that Leiws could have won regardless of the cut. Anyway, fact is that this version of Lewis, whilst still quite good, was not near his peak. Just look at him. Slow, heavy footed, lethargic etc. He was 38 or something, at the end of his career. Vit was younger. fresher, and close to his absolute peak.

This talk of not rematching him. Lewis ducked nobody, and rematched men who destroyed him. The man had serious balls. But, he knew that his time was finished. He had a real tough fight with a much younger man, and a man that was on the up. What does one expect? Him to get himself up for another massive war? 38 years of age fellas. He proved himself time and time again.

kryogen

Daroxtar wrote: »

Rocky is 43ko/49 wins - 87.755%
Vitali is 40ko/44 wins - 90.909%
Frank Bruno 38ko/40 wins - 95%
Just sayin...

Was working off a ratio of KO's to fights, not just wins.

Marciano now actually has the highest, just ahead of Klitschko.

That Bruno one is hella impressive though

RiseToTheTop

Chisora

That Frank Bruno would take out Joe Louis any time of the week.

If they were to fight 100 times, Bruno would win 95 times. (93 times by KO.)

Andrew Flexing

Chisora

RXMPS wrote: »

Vitali didn't win anything, he got cut and bust up, because Lewis was alot more skilled and repeatedly slammed his face and eye area.

.

Vitali claimed that Lewis opened those cuts using the inside seam of his glove-check out footage of it one youtube.
Vitali ahead on all 3 cards at the time of stoppage.

horsebox09

Chisora

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

Vitali claimed that Lewis opened those cuts using the inside seam of his glove-check out footage of it one youtube.
Vitali ahead on all 3 cards at the time of stoppage.

Why is there still a debate on this?
Lewis ripped half of Vitali's face off, if that fight wasn't stopped when it was, Lewis most likely would have stopped him in the next few rounds as he was coming on stronger and Vitali looked out on his feet

Frank Bruno was also ahead of Lewis on the cards before Lewis starched him, what does it matter? If anything, it shows the grit that Lennox had as a fighter

As for the topic at hand, I think Haye wins by wide UD or late TKO, would be an interesting fight though

walshb

horsebox09 wrote: »

Why is there still a debate on this?
Lewis ripped half of Vitali's face off, if that fight wasn't stopped when it was, Lewis most likely would have stopped him in the next few rounds as he was coming on stronger and Vitali looked out on his feet

Frank Bruno was also ahead of Lewis on the cards before Lewis starched him, what does it matter? If anything, it shows the grit that Lennox had as a fighter

As for the topic at hand, I think Haye wins by wide UD or late TKO, would be an interesting fight though

Both men were exhausted. Lewis was running on empty even though he looked to be coming on strong.

My view is that I don't see how any side can be certain of a win for either man had there been NO cuts.

Vit was only two points ahead. Now, the cuts had a big effect on Vit's performace I would think, but barring cuts, nobody can know how the fight pans out

Bruno was ahead, but Lewis was in a lot better shape back then. Also, Vitali is not Bruno. Vitali takes a much better shot.

Record book says Vitali lost via TKO vs. the best opponent by a stretch on his resume. No Vitali opponent comes close to Lewis, and that was a 38 year old Lewis too.

runboyrun

Chisora

horsebox09 wrote: »

Why is there still a debate on this?
Lewis ripped half of Vitali's face off, if that fight wasn't stopped when it was, Lewis most likely would have stopped him in the next few rounds as he was coming on stronger and Vitali looked out on his feet

Frank Bruno was also ahead of Lewis on the cards before Lewis starched him, what does it matter? If anything, it shows the grit that Lennox had as a fighter

As for the topic at hand, I think Haye wins by wide UD or late TKO, would be an interesting fight though

I agree with this, Lewis was starting to take over and dominate Vitali.

Lewis was a smart fighter and would figure out his opponents similar to mayweather.....sure floyd was losing to judah over the first 5 rounds....if the fight was stopped at that stage due to cuts would ppl be saying judah is better and would have won?