Vitali v Tyson

runboyrun

Who wins this match up?

Opinions please

walshb

Vitali

Funny this is posted. Kept picturing a 1986 Tyson in there tonight. Have to say, I would think that Tyson would be too much. Now, peak Klit, I also think Tyson beats him. Tyson's combination of power, speed, fast attacks, chin, stamina will see Vitali getting broken mid rds.

badabing106

Ha! I had a feeling it would you who posted this thread, did you lose some money on tonights fight?

A peak Vitali , is not a guy that looked like getting knocked out period .He never gets outboxed either. Tyson is dangerous in the first 1-4 rounds and could win it no doubt, but he has a major size and reach disadavantage. Vitali has quite an effective jab and a pretty fine set of boxing skills , which most people are okay to neglect ( and call him slow or boring) . Tyson never faired as well against much bigger opponents. Vitali by late stoppage

runboyrun

Vitali

badabing106 wrote: »

A peak Vitali , is not a guy that looked like getting knocked out period .He never gets outboxed either. Tyson is dangerous in the first 1-4 rounds and could win it no doubt,

Is that contradictory?

badabing106

runboyrun wrote: »

Is that contradictory?

How is it contradictory?

badabing106

runboyrun wrote: »

Is that contradictory?

Maybe your friend 'RiseToTheTop' will set me straight .No human is unbeatable, tyson could knock anyone out and klitschko could beat anyone he fought also .

cowzerp

badabing106 wrote: »

Maybe your friend 'RiseToTheTop' will set me straight .No human is unbeatable, tyson could knock anyone out and klitschko could beat anyone he fought also .

And?!

badabing106

cowzerp wrote: »

And?!

klitschko could outbox and out point any opponent in history, even on a bad night

Spazdarn

Vitali

I think it's a matter of styles, I think Vitali is brilliant at what he does but Tyson would be able to get inside his jab and do damage...

RiseToTheTop

Vitali

Tyson to win by KO.

Unless Vitali does a Bonecrusher Smith/Mitch Green/Tony Tucker and fights to survive only.

RiseToTheTop

Vitali

I do wonder if Vitali would be intimidated by Tyson? Tyson from 86-88 was up there with Foreman/Liston in terms of intimidation.

(Well he was always up there with them in terms of intimidation, but those where his peaks years, and probably his peak intimidation years.)

walshb

Vitali

Vitali comes across to me as a man full of character and confidence. I don't believe any fighter would really intimidate him. I just think Mike will close the gap, will get close, and will not miss some of them bombs he throws. Vitali is a master at range and distance, but Mike had such quick attacking feet that I believe Vitali is not allowed keep this at distance. Tyson nullifies the jab with his defense and bob and weave.

Mike has fought men who were 4-5 inches taller. TNT was 6-7 inches taller, and a very good HW at that time. He simply could not deal with Tyson. Vitali will not KO a peak Tyson, no way. He needs a fair deal of volume to outpoint him. Show me any man who came close to even outpointing Tyson from 1986-1989?

That Tyson was fit as a fiddle. Alway always came to fight, and never ever fought scared. He had such self belief. I cannot see Vit landing enough shots to take the win. He has to land to win. Tyson's defence was quite good,
and he threw a fair deal of leather too.

Vit vs Lewis, Vit was winning, but it was Lewis who was coming on stronger it seemed. Now, I know the eyes were a problem, but Vita also looked pretty gassed, as did Lewis. But Lewis was turning the screw. That was 6 rds. Tyson will make Vit work a lot more.

runboyrun

Vitali

badabing106 wrote: »

Maybe your friend 'RiseToTheTop' will set me straight .No human is unbeatable, tyson could knock anyone out and klitschko could beat anyone he fought also .

Huh? Have you me confused with someone else?

I found it contradictory because in the same sentence you said Vitali was never going to be knocked out and then you went on to say Tyson could knock anyone out. If Tyson can knock anyone out the he can obviously knock Vitali out so this is why to me it was contradictory.

minty16

Vitali every time. He takes Tysons power and rarely lets him inside. Tyson peak or not at peak can only be judged on his record after early rounds which is not good. He had serious stamina/breathing issues which he admits to himself, even at peak. If Vitali can take his shots and keep him at relative distance which I believe he can, he cruises to a UD or Late KO.

dlofnep

Vitali

Tyson would spark him out of it, with ease too. Bad match up.

minty16

I really dont think so. In fact I've never been so sure about a fantasy boxing match in my life. Vitali has an Iron Chin and Iron Mike can barely even get near him with the reach disadvantage. Say he does get inside, chances are he doesn't KO him anyway. He took it on the chin from Lewis one of the biggest ever hitters in the division. As I said previously Tyson has breathing issues, he wears out as he done in previous fights and Vitali eases to Victory. You can say peak Tyson was fit as a fiddle but he has admitted on tape that he knew he had to close fights early.

kryogen

badabing106 wrote: »

A peak Vitali , is not a guy that looked like getting knocked out period .He never gets outboxed either. Tyson is dangerous in the first 1-4 rounds and could win it no doubt, but he has a major size and reach disadavantage. Vitali has quite an effective jab and a pretty fine set of boxing skills , which most people are okay to neglect ( and call him slow or boring) . Tyson never faired as well against much bigger opponents. Vitali by late stoppage

runboyrun wrote: »

Huh? Have you me confused with someone else?

I found it contradictory because in the same sentence you said Vitali was never going to be knocked out and then you went on to say Tyson could knock anyone out. If Tyson can knock anyone out the he can obviously knock Vitali out so this is why to me it was contradictory.

You see the difference here in what he said, and what you are saying he said?

No contradiction at all, Vitali never looked in trouble in his professional career, never looked like getting knocked out, his chin has stood up to any test. So it would seem unlikely

However, Tysons power and explosiveness makes it impossible to rule him out if he could catch him early and often.

Very simple really

walshb

Vitali

minty16 wrote: »

I really dont think so. In fact I've never been so sure about a fantasy boxing match in my life. Vitali has an Iron Chin and Iron Mike can barely even get near him with the reach disadvantage. Say he does get inside, chances are he doesn't KO him anyway. He took it on the chin from Lewis one of the biggest ever hitters in the division. As I said previously Tyson has breathing issues, he wears out as he done in previous fights and Vitali eases to Victory. You can say peak Tyson was fit as a fiddle but he has admitted on tape that he knew he had to close fights early.

There is absolute no evidence at Tyson's peak to back up that he was not fit enough to fight for 12 rds. Yes, of course he will tire, any human would, but I would love to see an example of Mike Tyson being close to exhaustion when having fought 10-12 rds during his peak years of 1985-1989?

Wears out as he has done in previous fights? Please, at peak, show me this?

Look at Klit after 6 rds vs. Lewis? Klit looked gassed, every bit as much as Leiws.

Admitted on tape that he knew he had to close fights early?

So, what about the bouts that went ten and twelve rds, the ones where he completely dominated. Apart from Tillis when he was still learning, he dominated any distance fight he was in, and never ever looked all that gassed.

Stamina: Tyson has more than enough stamina at peak to fight 12 rds vs. Vitali Klitschko. More than enough. And a hell of a chin too to take anything Klit brings.

tysonslovechild

I love mike Tyson but Id have to give this to klitschko, tyson had quick hands on the inside and could close distance on the bigger men very quickly but vitali has footwork that goes unoticed , his fight against arreola is evidence of this as he made arreola miss as he got his shots off and moved , tyson had great head movement but I think when vitali starts landing that big right tysons spirit starts to break. Tyson also had trouble against good boxer, ie, razor ruddock. Remember tyson 0f 86 to 89 never meet anyone of vitalis pedigree.

walshb

Vitali

tysonslovechild wrote: »

I love mike Tyson but Id have to give this to klitschko, tyson had quick hands on the inside and could close distance on the bigger men very quickly but vitali has footwork that goes unoticed , his fight against arreola is evidence of this as he made arreola miss as he got his shots off and moved , tyson had great head movement but I think when vitali starts landing that big right tysons spirit starts to break. Tyson also had trouble against good boxer, ie, razor ruddock. Remember tyson 0f 86 to 89 never meet anyone of vitalis pedigree.

And Vitali never ever met anyone of Mike's pedigree.

Also, TNT and Smith were big and capable HW fighters.

Tyson is a completely different animal to anything that Klit has faced as regards power/speed and aggression.

Mike met big men, small mem, fast men, and dominated all of them at peak.

minty16

walshb , not saying he is going to be 'close to exhaustion' . He had a breathing problem which meant he knew he had to close fights early. He never went the distance with any boxer of any note. You say 86-89 but there is only a few months between the Williams and Douglas fight! How can that be overlooked? You cant go from peak to bleak (excuse the sun style rhyming) in that space of time. He was just beaten, fair and square.

walshb

Vitali

minty16 wrote: »

walshb , not saying he is going to be 'close to exhaustion' . He had a breathing problem which meant he knew he had to close fights early. He never went the distance with any boxer of any note. You say 86-89 but there is only a few months between the Williams and Douglas fight! How can that be overlooked? You cant go from peak to bleak (excuse the sun style rhyming) in that space of time. He was just beaten, fair and square.

I admit that he didn't drastically regress from Williams to Douglas. Still think he looked off vs. Douglas, right from the get-go. He had not been focused or prepared like he used to. Anyway, as regards this fight, Vitali's work rate and pressure isn't all that frenetic. He is a patient kind of fighter. I don't see any Tyson issue with stamina vs. Klit. Look at Tyson vs. Ruddock, a big heavy hitter. That was a fairly pacy and heavy handed 12 rds war. Tyson lasted it and was still banging away in rd 12.

TNT was a boxer of note. So was Smith, and Ruddock was highly rated when he met Tyson What is this "of note." Anyone else? Oh no, Tyson knocked them out.

Who did Vit ever go the distance with "of note."?

minty16

I'm not one that questions Tysons general record. KO'ing Spinks in round one was phenomenal. However I'm saying that Tyson admitted to having breathing problems. He laughed about it in one of his films/docs saying he wasn't sure if he could last the distance so he fought early. I don't believe Vitali has this question over his stamina, thus I dont believe it's relevant whether he beat anyone of note over the distance. I believe 'peak' Tyson lost to Douglas because of tiredness and working himself out early. You don't think he was at peak but I do. He looked very good early but Buster took his shots and hit back. I would agree that Vit hasn't but just don't think it's the same point Im trying to make re Tyson.

walshb

Vitali

minty16 wrote: »

I'm not one that questions Tysons general record. KO'ing Spinks in round one was phenomenal. However I'm saying that Tyson admitted to having breathing problems. He laughed about it in one of his films/docs saying he wasn't sure if he could last the distance so he fought early. I don't believe Vitali has this question over his stamina, thus I dont believe it's relevant whether he beat anyone of note over the distance. I believe 'peak' Tyson lost to Douglas because of tiredness and working himself out early. You don't think he was at peak but I do. He looked very good early but Buster took his shots and hit back. I would agree that Vit hasn't but just don't think it's the same point Im trying to make re Tyson.

And Buster fought his ass off, throwing a hell of a lot of shots. That is my point. Tyson was peak then, age wise, not as prepared, and that is what I saw, but Buster pasted the guy for ten rds before taking him out. Vit doesn't fight at this pace, nor will he be as busy as Buster. BTW, Buster was a very competent BIG man. A lot more fluid than Vit, faster too, with a wicked jab.

Now, what about the pace set in Ruddock II? That was a real bruiser of a fight, and Mike went 12 rds and was very good. Again, Vit's style is not the style where I feel that Tyson's stamina will be challenged.

cowzerp

Tyson could go 12 with Vitali stamina wise, this i have no doubts about

could he mentally go 12 rounds if getting no joy and getting pasted with the jab-this is the question we should be asking

Tyson potentially could KO anyone but i see Vitali been too tricky to land clean enough to be put out.

Tyson really faced no 1 of note till he was considered past it, Spinks was a light heavy and the rest where nothing anymore special than whats around now, most iof their names are only known because they fought Tyson who was the most famous sports man on the planet at the time, If Valuev had fought Tyson everyone would know who he was.

walshb

Vitali

cowzerp wrote: »

Tyson could go 12 with Vitali stamina wise, this i have no doubts about

could he mentally go 12 rounds if getting no joy and getting pasted with the jab-this is the question we should be asking

Tyson potentially could KO anyone but i see Vitali been too tricky to land clean enough to be put out.
.

In 1986 Tyson would get by the jab. I am confident of this. And, he certainly lasts the distance as you said. So, either way it's a hell of a tough fight, or a Tyson TKO. Vitali has to work to really earn a win. He is no way guranteed this on points. That is what is so difficult with Tyson. You wanna beat him, be damn well prepared to go 12 rds, and be prepared to fight and fight and fight. He will not be cleanly outboxed by any man.

Whej Vtail opens up, that is when he can be caught, and caught so heavy and clean. Tyson's chin is grade A, so is Vit's. Tyson to me is far the deadlier overall puncher. This is what separtes them big time. A TKO could be on the cards.

What I love about Tyson is that he ALWAYS came to fight, and never ever fought scared. He gave it his all. No Haye chicken sh!t. That added to his speed, power, chin and overall talent is why I feel that it's a real bad match for Vitali.

RiseToTheTop

Vitali

Tyson was never the same after Spinks. That idiot Don King coerced Mike into getting rid of Kevin Rooney and the rest of Team Tyson. Replacing them with cornermen who had to resort to using condoms to hold ice during fights.

The scary thing about Tyson was he wasn't even peak during the Buster Douglas fight IMO. He would have peaked around 27-28 onwards. But his entire team that brought him success was taken away after Spinks and replaced by Cowbows. There was not as much bobbing n weaving, body punches or combinations after Spinks.

BTW I wouldn't put down Spinks. He took away Larry Holmes 48-0 record and beat him again. First LHW to win HW title. His only loss was to Tyson who was Godzilla on that night.

Flancrest

dlofnep wrote: »

Tyson would spark him out of it, with ease too. Bad match up.

How do you see this as a bad match up for Vitali. He'd have height, weight and reach advantage. He's also an extremely good boxer compared to Tyson being a great fighter. I would have him winning on points after jabbing for 12 rounds and not getting involved in a brawl.

It would be a fantastic match though

RiseToTheTop

Vitali

Flancrest wrote: »

How do you see this as a bad match up for Vitali. He'd have height, weight and reach advantage. He's also an extremely good boxer compared to Tyson being a great fighter. I would have him winning on points after jabbing for 12 rounds and not getting involved in a brawl.

It would be a fantastic match though

Tyson was extremely adapt at getting inside of longer reaches. Tyson would be ferocious and would present Vitali a problem he would have never encountered before. Prime Tyson throw mean body punches and Vitali presents a lot of torso to him.

Vitali would have to throw some mean stuff to keep Tyson off him.

tryingmybestt

Vitali

peak tyson is too elusive and fast for vitali

i would see tyson getting a ko here, regardless of vits solid chin

tyson has too much power....vit doesn't have great one punch ko power, he wears ppl down

vit landed clean bombs on chisora and nothing happened

tysonslovechild

walshb wrote: »

And Vitali never ever met anyone of Mike's pedigree.

Also, TNT and Smith were big and capable HW fighters.

Tyson is a completely different animal to anything that Klit has faced as regards power/speed and aggression.

Mike met big men, small mem, fast men, and dominated all of them at peak.

vitali met a lennox lewis who was still champion of the world at the time and in my veiw and alot of other peoples he dominated that fight even after getting cut. Mikes aggression towards Vitali would be his downfall, thats my opinion. Most of mikes opponents were beatin before they stepped through the ropes. Vitali has a calmness that would not let him get intimidated. Tyson in his prime was a lethal weapon and one of my favorites but Vitali is a great boxer and I just feel mikes head movement diminishes after five rounds and vitalis right hand starts becoming the game changer, but I do see your point.

eagle eye

The thing about these is that people are taking them at their peak. Over their careers Vitali wins it easily imo. Just picking out their prime years is unfair because Tyson's prime wasn't that long.

tryingmybestt

Vitali

the poll suggests a suggests that most feel tyson would win

i agree

Flancrest

The problem here is that alot of people only see the size of Vitali and think thats the reason he wins fights. Now don't get me wrong it is a great advantage but he's also a fantastic boxer both technically and mentally.
You rarely see a fight were he doesn't dictate the pace. He also does what is required to win.

An earlier post said he doesn't have knockout power. I think that a quick look at his record (46 fights 44 wins 40 KOs) will set you straight on this.

gene_tunney

Flancrest wrote: »

An earlier post said he doesn't have knockout power. I think that a quick look at his record (46 fights 44 wins 40 KOs) will set you straight on this.

Vitali is an arm-puncher who KO's people by accumulation stoppages, not one-punch knockouts. Wlad has one punch KO power.

walshb

Vitali

eagle eye wrote: »

The thing about these is that people are taking them at their peak. Over their careers Vitali wins it easily imo. Just picking out their prime years is unfair because Tyson's prime wasn't that long.

Yes, but what is the point in doing this? I believe matching two fighters at their respective peaks is the best way to judge them for the purpose of a fantasy fight. Many great fighters had blistering peak years and then faded away.

And, here is something to think about. Vitali is utterly dominant, but would anyone expect his opponenst to bother even a post prison Tyson? I would say Tyson (1995-1996) reigns supreme if matched with the likes of Kirk Johnson, Sam Peter, Arreola, faded and past it Briggs, Danny Williams, Adamek, Solis, Haye, Chisora etc. Tyson in 1994-1996 would eat these up.

He would murder them in 1986.

tryingmybestt

Vitali

vitali has very good power but not the one punch ko power of a foreman, tyson or liston

most of his opponents are first worn out and then ko'd

it's obvious he has good skills and also very good power but he doesn't have the top class one punch ko power

vladimir is a better puncher than vitali i feel