Questions on calf rearing

20silkcut

I'm sure like many farmers this year i find myself rearing calves for the first time with bigger cattle so expensive.A pushy dealer arrived in my yard with 14 of them burning a hole in the back of his truck.

Anyway couple of questions.

The back of the golden maverick bag says to give 600 g of powder a day to each calf over 11 days. A neighbour of mine is telling me half that is enough and that my blue cards are false and the calves are only 5 days old!!!!!
Anyway 600g per head works out at two 20kg bags a week which works out in euro at 80 a week. Should I go with the back of the bag??? Or the neighbour.
I am feeding them 300g twice a day to 2.5 litres of water.

Secondly with a number like 14 would I be better off individually bucket feeding or feeding 7 at a time with the ten teat bucket.

As regards water, what is the best way of administering???

In relation to straw bedding How often should I change?My neighbour says every 4 to 5 days.

What is the best age to de horn at ??

bbam

Follow the mixing instructions exactly, your neighbour is an idiot to suggest otherwise.
If you can get SuperCream by Freshacres I found it as good as the maveric but about €5 a bag cheaper, and the bag makes more feeds.
7 calves to a 10 teat feeder is the way to go.

They must have access to fresh water all the time, changed every day. We have buckets that hang on the gate. and concentrates too, refresh the concentrates regularly even if not eaten. We catch each calf, bring to the trough and put meal in their mouth, each week until we know they are eating themselves.
Wean when they are eating 1kg concentrates a day each, any milk fed past that is wasted. Move weaned calves well away from where your still mixing milk as the stress of others being fed milk is tough on them.

Fresh straw as often as needed. 2/3 times a week. Don't skimp on bedding. Our pens drain well so we don't empty them until the calves are going out, just keep plenty of straw on them. Keep them clean and dry or you'll risk getting cocidosis into them and that will costuch more then fresh straw.

Dehorn as soon as buds are there, leaving it too long is just torture on man and beast.

20silkcut

Thanks bbam good post good info there.

Another problem I am having is they are sucking each others navels. Another farmer recommended a tar substance but the creamery man knew nothing of it.

charityboy

20silkcut wrote: »

I'm sure like many farmers this year i find myself rearing calves for the first time with bigger cattle so expensive.A pushy dealer arrived in my yard with 14 of them burning a hole in the back of his truck.

Anyway couple of questions.

The back of the golden maverick bag says to give 600 g of powder a day to each calf over 11 days. A neighbour of mine is telling me half that is enough and that my blue cards are false and the calves are only 5 days old!!!!!
Anyway 600g per head works out at two 20kg bags a week which works out in euro at 80 a week. Should I go with the back of the bag??? Or the neighbour.
I am feeding them 300g twice a day to 2.5 litres of water.

Secondly with a number like 14 would I be better off individually bucket feeding or feeding 7 at a time with the ten teat bucket.

As regards water, what is the best way of administering???

In relation to straw bedding How often should I change?My neighbour says every 4 to 5 days.

What is the best age to de horn at ??

stick with the back of the bag 600g a head for a week works out at three bags .i am using volac milk powder at a rate of 250g twice a day in 2.5 litres of water (its whats on the bag ) for 14 that would work out at a little under 2.5 bags per week ,best of luck with the calves

Bizzum

bbam covered it all I nearly.
A couple of points I would make: Was the neighbour refering to feeding them for the first few days perhaps. I've seen fresh calves arrive and get started off on "blue water" building up to the rate on the bag over the next few days.

On the dehorning issue I would let them settle in well before introducing any more stress on them. There is no best age really as different breeds have different size horn. Get someone who knows what they're at to polly them.

pakalasa

Just curious, but how many 20 Kg bags would each need before it's weaned and how much is each bag? Total cost etc.
It's a long time since I fed milk powder, over 20 yeras, I'd say...:)

charityboy

in a bag of volac there is 80 feeds (2.5 litres per calf) ,
example

10weeks = would be 1.75 bags ,it depends how old the calf is when you buy and i dont put a time frame on feeding them milk as when the are eating plenty ration they are weaned so id say it would take close to 1.5 bags to rear a calf bought at 2 weeks of age,bag costs 40 euro so 60 euro a head plus ration should get them to grass

bbam

I'd say wean them as they are eating a kg of meal each...
You should aim to get away with a bag of milk replacer each maybe a little more for a weak calf...
There is information from teagasc and some us trials that at 12 months there is no weight difference between a calf that consumes 1 compared to 2 bags of milk replacer... We also tried it both ways and found no difference..

What makes a difference is to get them eating hay/straw, meal and fresh water as early as possible...
We also move them to beef nuts as soon as possible, once weaned we start mixing it with the crunch/pencils and over two weeks have them on full beef nuts... much cheaper.. Then a kg of beef nuts going forward..

Ironically this may be the first year in about ten we have no sucks, they're just too pricey considering how long it takes to get them into a saleable size..

bbam

20silkcut wrote: »

Another problem I am having is they are sucking each others navels. Another farmer recommended a tar substance but the creamery man knew nothing of it.

We had this terrible in a group of 13 bull calves we reared last year... Nothing stops them and they were at it until the day they went on the trailer..

It's annoying to see but it did no harm... we had the DVO out doing an inspection for a pig herd number and he was looking a them in the field, he said it's no harm at all...

dealerman

20silkcut wrote: »

Another problem I am having is they are sucking each others navels. Another farmer recommended a tar substance but the creamery man knew nothing of it.

if you cover the calf navel in calf dung before you feed them it should stop them sucking

Bizzum

dealerman wrote: »

if you cover the calf navel in calf dung before you feed them it should stop them sucking

A fresh calf + dung on navel = potential calf with joint ill? Yes/no?

Attie

20silkcut wrote: »

Another problem I am having is they are sucking each others navels. Another farmer recommended a tar substance but the creamery man knew nothing of it.

Silkcut
As Bbam says very difficult to stop try this might work on some http://www.medicanimal.com/product/~product_id=3072?gclid=CIq_wfu3qK4CFeontAodmmhgSg

Attie

Bizzum wrote: »

A fresh calf + dung on navel = potential calf with joint ill? Yes/no?

Yes

dealerman

Bizzum wrote: »

A fresh calf + dung on navel = potential calf with joint ill? Yes/no?

NO
sure its not fresh calves silk cut has and calves a day or 2 old dont suck each other

Bizzum

dealerman wrote: »

NO
sure its not fresh calves silk cut has and calves a day or 2 old dont suck each other

From what age can this "cure" be applied?

dealerman

Bizzum wrote: »

From what age can this "cure" be applied?

whenever a calf is sucking an other calf sure simple as

PMU

bbam wrote: »

I'd say wean them as they are eating a kg of meal each...
You should aim to get away with a bag of milk replacer each maybe a little more for a weak calf...
There is information from teagasc and some us trials that at 12 months there is no weight difference between a calf that consumes 1 compared to 2 bags of milk replacer... We also tried it both ways and found no difference..

What makes a difference is to get them eating hay/straw, meal and fresh water as early as possible...
We also move them to beef nuts as soon as possible, once weaned we start mixing it with the crunch/pencils and over two weeks have them on full beef nuts... much cheaper.. Then a kg of beef nuts going forward..

Ironically this may be the first year in about ten we have no sucks, they're just too pricey considering how long it takes to get them into a saleable size..

many farmers now recommend weaning by weight rather than age,90-100kgs depending on breed

whelan1

might be no harm to give them 5cc of long acting alamycin to get them over the stress of being brought in... if they still have a straw like thing hanging from their navel they are under a week old.. best of luck with them

keep going

20silkcut wrote: »

Thanks bbam good post good info there.

Another problem I am having is they are sucking each others navels. Another farmer recommended a tar substance but the creamery man knew nothing of it.

if you are feeding with nipples make sure they new/good.calves suck each other because they dont produce enough saliva if the nipples let out the milk too fast.since i started minding the nipples on the feeders i have NO problems with sucking

20silkcut

What do you mean when you say minding the teats?? Replacing worn ones?? Special cleaning agent??

I have 3 scouring now since I changed from my neighbours recomendation to the instructions on the back of the bag. One of those won't swallow the lectade and is dribbling it back out and seems generally a bit lethargic. A few of them are coughing as well. Going to seperate the three Scourers from the rest tomorrow.have the vet on speed dial But not pressing the ring button just yet. Calf rearing is not for the faint hearted

49801

lectade does not taste nice to them.... they wont volinteer to drink it.

electrolyte gel added to the milk is the way to

apparently they do like the tast of those tablets that fizz and dissolve in water and will drink/suck them but i've yet to get them to do it:o when needed

yellow50HX

feckin dealers, plenty of chancers out there, its a shame as they the decent fellas a bad name. anytime we bring in calves we give them a shot of betamox LA just in case they have picked up anything as it'll stop it spreading.

lakill Farm

Finally picked up 12 sucks on saturday. 10 bulls and 2 free martins. ( ill fatten for our own freezer or sell to butcher)

I feed 2 litres of milk per calf morning and evening. They have fresh water, good quality dust free hay, clean bedding every 2 days and good calf crunch.

I used volaic before this at 47e a bag. trying freshacres this year at €36.

Once the calves are eating 750g-1kg of crunch a day i reduce milk to evening feed only and once they hit 2kg (normally withing 7-10days) i wean fully.

Thats my system, and everyone differs

whelan1

20silkcut wrote: »

What do you mean when you say minding the teats?? Replacing worn ones?? Special cleaning agent??

I have 3 scouring now since I changed from my neighbours recomendation to the instructions on the back of the bag. One of those won't swallow the lectade and is dribbling it back out and seems generally a bit lethargic. A few of them are coughing as well. Going to seperate the three Scourers from the rest tomorrow.have the vet on speed dial But not pressing the ring button just yet. Calf rearing is not for the faint hearted

are you able to stomach tube , the weak calves need energy asap, lectade gives them the energy, might be no harm to get the vet to come out, he will advise you better than an internet forum:o

whelan1

lakill Farm wrote: »

Finally picked up 12 sucks on saturday. 10 bulls and 2 free martins. ( ill fatten for our own freezer or sell to butcher)

I feed 2 litres of milk per calf morning and evening. They have fresh water, good quality dust free hay, clean bedding every 2 days and good calf crunch.

I used volaic before this at 47e a bag. trying freshacres this year at €36.

Once the calves are eating 750g-1kg of crunch a day i reduce milk to evening feed only and once they hit 2kg (normally withing 7-10days) i wean fully.

Thats my system, and everyone differs

out of interest what did you pay and what breeds

lakill Farm

whelan1 wrote: »

out of interest what did you pay and what breeds

Limx cross bull €275 and € 170
AAX bull €135 -200
Fr bull 65 - 140
Free martin heifers (AAX € 135 and HEx € 160)

All are grand strong and trained onto the jfc feeder. some even eating crunch and 1 square bale of hay done in 36 hours.

I think they were defo down 200 a head compared to last few weeks. I bought in carraigallen co leitrim

Because the herd no is in OH name the roar that went up when they heard the buyer was female.

PatQfarmer

lakill Farm wrote: »

Finally picked up 12 sucks on saturday. 10 bulls and 2 free martins. ( ill fatten for our own freezer or sell to butcher)

I feed 2 litres of milk per calf morning and evening. They have fresh water, good quality dust free hay, clean bedding every 2 days and good calf crunch.

I used volaic before this at 47e a bag. trying freshacres this year at €36.

Once the calves are eating 750g-1kg of crunch a day i reduce milk to evening feed only and once they hit 2kg (normally withing 7-10days) i wean fully.

Thats my system, and everyone differs

The prices are coming back so!
Best of luck with them.
Never used the Freshacres, always Volac. Let me know what you think in due course please.
Your system is like mine, but I have included Vaccination as a must (and BVD tag). Saves a lot of needle work later...

lakill Farm

I didnt know about freshacres until my aunt who is a manager of a agri hardware told me about it, she says the same lads buy it year in year out. I must cross reference it against volaic and the triple maverick

I do vaccinate for bvd and IBR, but half this years group have bvd tags

Ill also dehorn in the next 7 to 10 days with a portable gas bud dehorner.

PatQfarmer wrote: »

The prices are coming back so!
Never used the Freshacres, always Volac. Let me know what you think in due course please.
Your system is like mine, but I have included Vaccination as a must (and BVD tag). Saves a lot of needle work later...

PatQfarmer

20silkcut wrote: »

I have 3 scouring now since I changed from my neighbours recomendation to the instructions on the back of the bag. One of those won't swallow the lectade and is dribbling it back out and seems generally a bit lethargic. A few of them are coughing as well. Going to seperate the three Scourers from the rest tomorrow.have the vet on speed dial But not pressing the ring button just yet. Calf rearing is not for the faint hearted

Jeepers, that doesn't sound good.
Get the Vet, fast...
Test for BVD, if you have a PI, it will cost you loads and probably end up killing a few of them.
You also seem to have pneumonia brewing. Block all draughts, take temps and be ready to needle the bejaysus out of them if needs be.
Presume you didn't vaccinate for IBR? If not, do it now.
Keep the faith, but you will be living with them for the next few weeks.
Best of luck!

whelan1

op, how are the calves doing?

easymoney!

lakill Farm wrote: »

Limx cross bull €275 and € 170
AAX bull €135 -200
Fr bull 65 - 140
Free martin heifers (AAX € 135 and HEx € 160)

All are grand strong and trained onto the jfc feeder. some even eating crunch and 1 square bale of hay done in 36 hours.

I think they were defo down 200 a head compared to last few weeks. I bought in carraigallen co leitrim

Because the herd no is in OH name the roar that went up when they heard the buyer was female.

wel lakill farm you bought them well did you buy them all in carraigallen mart??
what was the fr bulls like ? what was the one at 65 euro like? im lokking for ten calves next week... free martin heifers are twins are they?

lakill Farm

Ye i bought all in the mart. I was the only one who loaded calves into a straw bedded trailer. That kind of shocked me.

Easymoney, i was in the same mart the week before and you would want a european bailout fund to purchase anything

easymoney! wrote: »

wel lakill farm you bought them well did you buy them all in carraigallen mart??
what was the fr bulls like ? what was the one at 65 euro like? im lokking for ten calves next week... free martin heifers are twins are they?

bbam

lakill Farm wrote: »

Ye i bought all in the mart. I was the only one who loaded calves into a straw bedded trailer. That kind of shocked me.

Easymoney, i was in the same mart the week before and you would want a european bailout fund to purchase anything

Great prices...
Hope they do well for ye..

They're more the price where a few bob can be made from them down the road..

lakill Farm

Hi bbam,

Yes i hope they will leave a few bob in 18 to 20 months. I couldnt justify the high prices of a few weeks ago, not denying the dairy people the money, but the marts and dealers were doing alot of messing.

Ill try to pick up about 10 more in a few weeks time. I might even have the new shed up. :rolleyes:.

bbam wrote: »

Great prices...
Hope they do well for ye..

They're more the price where a few bob can be made from them down the road..

20silkcut

I injected them with a long acting pneumonia injection(cyclosol) after they arrived on the advice of the helpful neighbour.
The 3 potential scourers are sectioned off and just on their 4th dose of lectade so will be re- introducing milk powder this evening.
My big problem , as a totally inexpereinced calf rarer, is recognising scour. As soon as I see dirt on the tail I just tend to reach for the lectade. Obviously I can't stay in the shed all day waiting and watching for them to void.
There was one fella yesterday made a very watery one but is absolutely clean behind!!!
I cut the powder back to 250g to 2 litres of water as opposed to 300g to 2 1/2 litres of water. And I stopped the calf crunch and increased the hay and water.

The coughing is probably just my paranoia??
Like if your standing in the shed for 1/2 hour 3 or 4 might cough. But they don't look anyway sick and are bright as buttons.
I have held off on the vet so far.

easymoney!

I know its gas the way it turns you could be buying the same calf for twicw the price one week and then the following week you would think your getting them for nothing!! would you recommend me going to carrigallen this saturday or even next to pick up a few? many calves about it?

cj maxx

hi all . them calves seem like a good buy compared to price a local dairy man was telling me he was getting for his fr bulls ! best of luck with them
what are free martin calves ?? never heard that before?

lakill Farm

cjmc wrote: »

hi all . them calves seem like a good buy compared to price a local dairy man was telling me he was getting for his fr bulls ! best of luck with them
what are free martin calves ?? never heard that before?

Free martin calves are the female twin calf which is born with a bull twin and is in approx 90% of times infertile so is for fattening only (my understanding only)

on going to carraigallen, i would try carnaross first on a monday it has more calves. Just my 2 cent worth, i wount be buying again for another few weeks

whelan1

spoke with dealer this morning, he said calf prices going to plummet, shipping to open again next week- but then he could just be scaremongering:o

lakill Farm

whelan1 wrote: »

spoke with dealer this morning, he said calf prices going to plummet, shipping to open again next week- but then he could just be scaremongering:o

90% of calves i have seen in the 2 marts i go to are FR bulls or FRX.
I dont begruge the diary people the prices they were getting, but with beef prices not fixed for 18 months time, giving €400 for a 10 day old calf was risky

I saw a smashing ( built like a tank) Char Heifer about 4 months old and 300kg plus on saturday. Slight Strain after a calving jack. €380. Sorry i didnt try to buy her, make a great cow even

PatQfarmer

20silkcut wrote: »

I injected them with a long acting pneumonia injection(cyclosol) after they arrived on the advice of the helpful neighbour.
The 3 potential scourers are sectioned off and just on their 4th dose of lectade so will be re- introducing milk powder this evening.
My big problem , as a totally inexpereinced calf rarer, is recognising scour. As soon as I see dirt on the tail I just tend to reach for the lectade. Obviously I can't stay in the shed all day waiting and watching for them to void.
There was one fella yesterday made a very watery one but is absolutely clean behind!!!
I cut the powder back to 250g to 2 litres of water as opposed to 300g to 2 1/2 litres of water. And I stopped the calf crunch and increased the hay and water.

The coughing is probably just my paranoia??
Like if your standing in the shed for 1/2 hour 3 or 4 might cough. But they don't look anyway sick and are bright as buttons.
I have held off on the vet so far.

If you underfeed them, they'll die anyway!
Keep feeding milk and lectade alternately. They need the energy to live.
Are you taking their temperature on a regular basis? Keep record and this will identify any getting sicker.
Did you test for BVD? Scour can always be a pointer. If you have one, it will keep infecting the others with all sorts of disease until you take it out.
Best of luck!

whelan1

ye , messing around with the milk food will not do them any good, in the long run, instructions are on the bag for a reason, have they been done for coccidiosis?

pakalasa

What do people think about 3 times a day feeding young and vurnerable calves like this? I do it with very young sucklers for about a week or two, when I have them seperated from the cows.
(I'm don't have the shed space at the moment. Cows are in a cubicle house.)

We did it in the past too with bucket fed calves if they became sick.

PatQfarmer

pakalasa wrote: »

What do people think about 3 times a day feeding young and vurnerable calves like this? I do it with very young sucklers for about a week or two, when I have them seperated from the cows.
(I'm don't have the shed space at the moment. Cows are in a cubicle house.)

I do scouring calves 4 times (2 milk, 2 lectade). Weak calves will benefit from a little often, as if on a cow, imo.
People think calf-rearing is easy! Hardest part of the process, methinks. Always learning...

lakill Farm

I think if your going to feed calves 3 times a day, it would be best to invest in a auto feeding system. I work away from home and so does the OH and it just wount work. I just make sure there all full at 7am and 7pm and have loads of water, crunch and hay.

The last time i had a calf who was small and hungry i got a neightbour to tube feed him and next day he was right

pakalasa wrote: »

What do people think about 3 times a day feeding young and vurnerable calves like this? I do it with very young sucklers for about a week or two, when I have them seperated from the cows.
(I'm don't have the shed space at the moment. Cows are in a cubicle house.)

We did it in the past too with bucket fed calves if they became sick.

PatQfarmer

My OH is home around kids school etc, so she is my auto feeder...or maybe it's the other way around...can't exactly work it out:D

lakill Farm

Show her respect :eek:

PatQfarmer wrote: »

My OH is home around kids school etc, so she is my auto feeder...or maybe it's the other way around...can't exactly work it out:D

PatQfarmer

lakill Farm wrote: »

Show her respect :eek:

Oh I do!
She is a far better calf-rearer than I am...then again, most women are better at that than us fellas.
Many's the calf that would have died without her care and attention.
What I meant was that I am the auto-feeder, she is the thinker...if you get my drift:)

49801

why not use products like gel lyte that get mixed with the milk rather than withdrawing the milk. If they are not too sick they will still choose to drink it and you wont have to be pouring down their throat or tubing them. much easier for calf and farmer.

cam1452

Another problem I am having is they are sucking each others navels. Another farmer recommended a tar substance but the creamery man knew nothing of it.[/QUOTE]

get slow releshing teeths for the drinker. i had the same problem until i changed to them. there jaws get tierd after drinking so no more sucking navals

simx

cam1452 wrote: »

Another problem I am having is they are sucking each others navels. Another farmer recommended a tar substance but the creamery man knew nothing of it.

get slow releshing teeths for the drinker. i had the same problem until i changed to them. there jaws get tierd after drinking so no more sucking navals[/QUOTE]

sounds like a good idea alright