Goldfish Died - Help with starting again

Bigdeadlydave

I have a 60 ltr tank and for about 6 months I had a single goldfish in it. He got on grand, was healthy and was growing quickly, all was fine until I decided to get him a friend.

Bought a second one and stupidly didn't quarantine him, put him straight in. He was ok for a week or so until I went away, while I was gone he got sick (friend who was feeding him found him bobbing at the surface, and took him out and put him into a separate bowl) when I got back a few days later he was dead. About two weeks later (after a 100% water change) my original goldfish got sick, starting cartwheeling around like he was drunk, then went bent C shaped and got stuck on the bottom. I tried feeding him peas and I reduced the water level, but it didn't work and he died the exact same way. Gutted.

I reckon the second fish was diseased or something. My water quality was good, my pet shop tests it for you, I'd bring a sample in every two or three weeks and they were always grand. Did regular water changes etc.

Now, how should I go about starting again? I figured I'll have to give the tank and everything in it a good clean to get rid of anything nasty that might be lingering, bought a new filter sponge too. Should I just clean it with water? I imagine soap is a big no no?

A concern I have is that my old goldfish had a habit of digging, picking up stones and moving them, might a goldfish swallow one? Should I get bigger stones?

What should I look out for when buying fish? To my untrained eye the second fish looked healthy.

What fish food should I get? I've been told the flake food I have is bad and that I need ones that sink, pellets or something so the fish doesn't gobble lots of air when eating? What brand should I be looking at?

In treating my tank I used Stress Zyme and Stess Coat following the instructions on the packet, as I said the guys in the shop tested it and told me it was perfect so I think I have the water quality bit down.

Was more upset then I thought I'd be when the fish died, would rather not have to go through that again!

Thanks in advance for any tips or help

Silverfish

Hi, sorry about your fish. The C shape / spiralling is usually due to nitrate poisoning.

First thing I'll say, is you need to cycle the tank before putting any more fish in.

Secondly, I know the shop is saying your water quality is 'fine' but really, 'fine' tells you nothing. You need exact results for pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.

Your ammonia needs to be zero, your Nitrite needs to be zero, and your nitrates need to be <40. If you have zero nitrates, chances are the tank is not cycled, so your test results will be 'fine' but will not be safe to add fish. So try pick up a liquid drop test kit, this way you can test the water yourself, and if things start to go wrong, you'll notice it sooner and fix it quicker.

Thirdly, I'm afraid that I think 60L is way to small for one goldfish, and definitely not for two. They can grow up to a foot long, and are very messy fish, producing a LOT of waste. I'd recommend 100L for the first fish, and at least 40L for each fish after that.

Clean out the tank fully using Safety Clean (comes in a spray bottle) or just hot water and a scrubbing brush, and read the sticky at the top of the forum on cycling a tank ,or if you know anyone else with fish, you can borrow some sponge from them that will have the bacteria on it.

If you got a heater for the tank, you could have some really lovely tropical fish?

Bigdeadlydave

Silverfish wrote: »

Hi, sorry about your fish. The C shape / spiralling is usually due to nitrate poisoning.

First thing I'll say, is you need to cycle the tank before putting any more fish in.

Secondly, I know the shop is saying your water quality is 'fine' but really, 'fine' tells you nothing. You need exact results for pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.

Your ammonia needs to be zero, your Nitrite needs to be zero, and your nitrates need to be <40. If you have zero nitrates, chances are the tank is cycled, so your test results will be 'fine' but will not be safe to add fish. So try pick up a liquid drop test kit, this way you can test the water yourself, and if things start to go wrong, you'll notice it sooner and fix it quicker.

Thirdly, I'm afraid that I think 60L is way to small for one goldfish, and definitely not for two. They can grow up to a foot long, and are very messy fish, producing a LOT of waste. I'd recommend 100L for the first fish, and at least 40L for each fish after that.

Clean out the tank fully using Safety Clean (comes in a spray bottle) or just hot water and a scrubbing brush, and read the sticky at the top of the forum on cycling a tank ,or if you know anyone else with fish, you can borrow some sponge from them that will have the bacteria on it.

If you got a heater for the tank, you could have some really lovely tropical fish?

Thanks for the reply Silverfish.

I'm pretty livid, they told me in the shop that 20 liters per goldfish was absolutely loads. Really disappointed at that as they have always given me good advice about the dog.

So two goldfish is out and even just the one is stretching it.

I do have a heater yes. I decided on goldfish in the beginning as I was told they are hardy and generally wouldn't die straight off if I did something wrong. :rolleyes:

I can't afford a bigger tank so I'll have to look at tropical fish so. What are some hardy species that aren't too hard to care for? How many could I have in my tank?

I'll buy a testing kit.

Silverfish

I've got 4 goldfish in a 350L tank, 2 x shrimp tanks, and a tropical tank with kribensis, and let me tell you, the tropical tank is the easiest and least hassle of all the tanks!

Goldfish are really not hardy at all anymore, they're so inbred and badly bred and shipped halfway across the world, they're usually half dead by the time they hit the shops anyway! They're messier and more prone to problems with water quality than most fish. Shops will not mention any of this, the more you buy off them to medicate and try 'save' your fish, the more money they make!

For starting out with trops you could try guppies, mollies, platys, tetras (some gorgeous tetras out there) - it's worth taking a trip to a dedicated aquatic shop since they'll have more variety and better stock usually.

Depending on your filter, I'd say between 10 - 12 tetras or guppies, bear in mind tetras are shoaling fish and you'll need to buy at least 6.
Best bet is have a look and see what you like the look of.

Bigdeadlydave

Silverfish wrote: »

I've got 4 goldfish in a 350L tank, 2 x shrimp tanks, and a tropical tank with kribensis, and let me tell you, the tropical tank is the easiest and least hassle of all the tanks!

Goldfish are really not hardy at all anymore, they're so inbred and badly bred and shipped halfway across the world, they're usually half dead by the time they hit the shops anyway! They're messier and more prone to problems with water quality than most fish. Shops will not mention any of this, the more you buy off them to medicate and try 'save' your fish, the more money they make!

For starting out with trops you could try guppies, mollies, platys, tetras (some gorgeous tetras out there) - it's worth taking a trip to a dedicated aquatic shop since they'll have more variety and better stock usually.

Depending on your filter, I'd say between 10 - 12 tetras or guppies, bear in mind tetras are shoaling fish and you'll need to buy at least 6.
Best bet is have a look and see what you like the look of.

Thanks for that, I googled some of the fish you listed, they look great, really bright and colorful, which is what I'm looking for I think I'll get some of them.

Will they only shoal with their own kind, or could I get 3 tetras and 3 guppies etc.. Or should they not be mixed with other species? Could I get 6 of them say, and then a single larger fish? Sorry for all the questions but I don't trust the people in the shop to answer honestly at all now, would probably send me home with half the shop if they could. :mad:

Scrubbed out the tank today, replaced the filter sponge and installed the heater. Gonna start cycling tonight and add some fish in two or three weeks, from some googling the ideal temp seems to be between 25 and 30 degrees, set it at 27.

kylith

Most schooling fish need a minimum of 6 of the same species. Having fewer fish will lead to them being more stressed and can lead to things like fin nipping. The more of one species you have the better, both for the fish and the aesthetic of the tank.