That's between me and my Christ.

AskMyChocolate

There seems to be an awful amount of threads, on this forum especially, that revolve around values.

I have often noticed, that what I would espouse, as simple Christian values, are often, backed up, by atheists, muslims, Jews, etc.


So, I was wondering AHers, if push came to shove, where would your loyalties lie?

I would consider myself a socialist, yet, I think my Christianity would come first.

I don't find it too difficult to embrace both, but I often wonder where my loyalties would lie. !

I think I'd side with Christianity.

So, AHers, where do your loyalties lie?

Fenian Army

If people are honest the majority would answer "money", that's the way this country has gone.

housetypeb

Zeus for the win, he beat the Titans for fcuk sake.

Meow_Meow

What you deem as being 'Christian values' another may simply see as common sense. When you take the hocus pocus out of Christianity, it usually boils down to some pretty basic moral tenants, and I'm sure we wound have figured out that it wasn't exactly in our best interests to go around killing and raping without some hairy Jewish dude kicking up a fuss in the Middle East.

That said, I don't think I would have been able to come up with such novel biblical ideals as compensating a rape victim's father and forcing her to marry her rapist on my own.

racso1975

Wife and kids

Fromthetrees

I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.

Chuck Stone

Allahu akbar.

MagicMarker

Your values aren't ''Christian values'', they're just values that christianity have hijacked as their own, they also conveniently ignore the rest of the bollocks in the bible.

TheZohanS

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

I have often noticed, that what I would espouse, as simple Christian values, are often, backed up, by atheists, muslims, Jews, etc.

Christianity borrows a lot from Hinduism. Those values you're talking about have been around for a long time before Christianity was invented.

Joe10000

Sorry but that's between me and my Christ.

Frank Black

I'm a Jedi.

antodeco

I'm lost on this thread

efb

Jesus watches me doing the beast with two backs and he disapproves...
Him and John never used condoms

Pdfile

antodeco wrote: »

I'm lost on this thread

Im lost on the m50, i think ill just drive up it the wrong way and pretend im a women.

Doc Ruby

Meow_Meow wrote: »

When you take the hocus pocus out of Christianity, it usually boils down to some pretty basic moral tenants

You will note that nowhere in the the commandments is it written "thou shalt not rape children". Actually since children are too young to take to wife, the devout guardians of the faith neatly sidestep the coveting thy neighbours wife rule as well.

OP I seriously don't know where to start. You are reducing a very complex and deep set of options to two, religious and political, a bit of sophistry worthy of an American politician.

For myself, supermacs wins the toss, had I to make a decision. If that woman working there I gave my number to yesterday doesn't call by tomorrow, then buddhism probably.

Ronin247

Pdfile wrote: »

Im lost on the m50, i think ill just drive up it the wrong way and pretend im a women.

oh no you didn't, the feminazis will be right over.....

LH Pathe

Christ is in me get ourra dat ye durty scoundrel

iguana

Daddy or chips?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sweet mother of fvck, can someone people not make their own minds up on an issue without resorting to an alleged authoritive-figure?

Nationality? Religion? Culture? Politics?

I quote Homer Simpson: "Someone turn on something - I'm starting to THINK here."

Manach

Catholicism. In that it has proved willing to stand up to State power were it would to impinge outside its sphere. To render unto Caerar his due is one thing, but where the State seeks to be the sole voice in the public square, "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state", then it is the Church that speaks for the Christian values of family that it has mostly upheld.

policarp

A lot of people have superstitions.
Some people call superstitions religion. . .

AskMyChocolate

Meow_Meow wrote: »

What you deem as being 'Christian values' another may simply see as common sense. When you take the hocus pocus out of Christianity, it usually boils down to some pretty basic moral tenants, and I'm sure we wound have figured out that it wasn't exactly in our best interests to go around killing and raping without some hairy Jewish dude kicking up a fuss in the Middle East.

That said, I don't think I would have been able to come up with such novel biblical ideals as compensating a rape victim's father and forcing her to marry her rapist on my own.

Cheers man. I knew "The Christ" would come to me. Apparrently he used to be quite mysterious.:D

I'm off now to start the proper thread. With it's proper thread title.

Choco

AskMyChocolate

Meow_Meow wrote: »

What you deem as being 'Christian values' another may simply see as common sense. When you take the hocus pocus out of Christianity, it usually boils down to some pretty basic moral tenants, and I'm sure we wound have figured out that it wasn't exactly in our best interests to go around killing and raping without some hairy Jewish dude kicking up a fuss in the Middle East.

That said, I don't think I would have been able to come up with such novel biblical ideals as compensating a rape victim's father and forcing her to marry her rapist on my own.

It's tenets. And, do you see any "Hairy Jew" throwing Peter Sutherland or Dermot Gleeson out of the temple? Or have you not figured out what is in our best interests?

LH Pathe

Jesus built my hot dog. n he done gone stacked it with cart onion

DEFTLEFTHAND

Your religious beliefs aren't relevant to your political views. Not in this country anyway.

See socialism doesn't work, why should we all share in equal misery. You work for your success and you don't let any social or economic issues get in your way. The cream rise to the top and the inadequate will wallow in self pity and bleed the state dry. We're all here for the one time so lets make something of ourselves..

Mr.Biscuits

When times get tough and I reach a dilemma in my life, I tend to take a step back and ask myself:

"What would Jonathan Smith do?"

krudler

If the world contained more people who were more christ like and less christian we'd all be better off.

later12

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Sweet mother of fvck, can someone people not make their own minds up on an issue without resorting to an alleged authoritive-figure?

Nationality? Religion? Culture? Politics?

I quote Homer Simpson: "Someone turn on something - I'm starting to THINK here."

I think it's reasonable to question where or how one's ethical beliefs arose.

I am not a religious person, but I would be extremely foolish to suggest that religion - Christianity most specifically - did not help to mould my worldview on account of how it has shaped the society in which I was born and raised. Lots of things have shaped Christianity in kind (and no,I don't mean anything sacred), and Christianity has not been the only influence on western society.

But it certainly has helped to influence western thought, and western philosophy. Western societies bear and perpetuate relics of Christian philosophy.

So it is no wonder that atheists and Christians can occasionally find a good deal of common ground from an ethical viewpoint.

Son Of A Vidic

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

I have often noticed, that what I would espouse, as simple Christian values, are often, backed up, by atheists, muslims, Jews, etc.

Just don't make the mistake in assuming that these Christian values or Christianity itself is somehow superior. Because it is not. At the core of most religions, is a guide on basic morals and principles which are merely shared by Christianity. The same applies to atheists and just because one is an atheist, does mean they are lacking a moral compass. So there is nothing at all unique about Christianity. I would just replace your use of the word 'backed up' with 'shared', because I think it is more appropriate.

OneArt

Being a Buddhist witch is awesome.

*cackle*

Zebra3

I'll go with the great christian values. Especially such forgiving aspects of it like "an eye for an eye".

Cú Giobach

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

There seems to be an awful amount of threads, on this forum especially, that revolve around values.

I have often noticed, that what I would espouse, as simple Christian values, are often, backed up, by atheists, muslims, Jews, etc.

In the same vein as others have said, what you are calling Christian Values are actually Human Values and arose long before Christianity.
Every social species as evolved certain rules in order to allow them to live in harmony with each other, and this is what our sense of morality is.
As humans we tend to give some special meaning to things like "love" or "morality" but they are nothing more than things that enable us to continue as a species, and are innate to every human being irrespective of religion.
In fact religions can often twist these basic instincts out of wack, to the detriment of our species.

Benny_Cake

Zebra3 wrote: »

I'll go with the great christian values. Especially such forgiving aspects of it like "an eye for an eye".

Context is everything..

" You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:38-39

Most moral values which people hold are not specifically Christian and would in fact predate Christianity. The ultimate source of these values which seem to be innate to most humans is a completely different matter.

OP, why do you feel the need to pigeonhole yourself like that?

Gummy Panda

I follow the hawk

robp

There are always a number of major influences that shape people's worldview. Christianity has influenced Western thought far more than many are keen to admit. Yet, I'd like to think that the older pre-christian ways also influenced Irish people in a positive way but thats nether here or there. Christianity has shaped the Irish in many positive ways without a doubt. For example year after year Ireland overachieves in overseas aid. I 'd imagine that is partly rooted in the enormous numbers who painfully left this country to teach, heal and preach in orders far before this country was at a first world status itself. Look at the establishments of Columban monastery foundations from 590-725 in Europe and you will see we have been doing this for a long time.
Christianity also improved how people lived there lives in Ireland by formalising education and getting rid of practices like polygamy and probably human sacrifice too. It would be naive to think Christianity or Judaism invented all of these values but they did 'package' them in an exceptionally influential way up to this day.

Toby Take a Bow

Ronin247 wrote: »

oh no you didn't, the feminazis will be right over.....

And yet, it's the following day and they haven't come.

bnt

"my christ"? OP wants his own Personal Jesus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNd4eocq2K0

Tomk1

robp wrote: »

There are always a number of major influences that shape people's worldview. Christianity has influenced Western thought far more than many are keen to admit. Yet, I'd like to think that the older pre-christian ways also influenced Irish people in a positive way but thats nether here or there. Christianity has shaped the Irish in many positive ways without a doubt. For example year after year Ireland overachieves in overseas aid. I 'd imagine that is partly rooted in the enormous numbers who painfully left this country to teach, heal and preach in orders far before this country was at a first world status itself. Look at the establishments of Columban monastery foundations from 590-725 in Europe and you will see we have been doing this for a long time.
Christianity also improved how people lived there lives in Ireland by formalising education and getting rid of practices like polygamy and probably human sacrifice too. It would be naive to think Christianity or Judaism invented all of these values but they did 'package' them in an exceptionally influential way up to this day.

Turning into one of those threads.
Pre-JHCism must have influenced Irish-christism, why else keep the winter-fest to celebrate to return of the sun.
Witches were healers, but deemed to have too much influence so lets be christian and burn them.

Basically people will have babies, eat food, build homes, educate their children, make thiefs/murders pay, even if religion was never invented.

What's wrong with polygamy, if everyone is happy, two+ wifes/husbands or even group-marraige.

Also xian education is/was soley about promotion of that faith, what you may term as education was just a means of indoctrination. Has christianity ever done anything that didn't suit it's own self interest? Thereby how can any of it's actions be moral.

---
OP isn't socialism a key part of christism, everything belongs to god for all his children, n' down with democracy.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

later12 wrote: »

I think it's reasonable to question where or how one's ethical beliefs arose.

I am not a religious person, but I would be extremely foolish to suggest that religion - Christianity most specifically - did not help to mould my worldview on account of how it has shaped the society in which I was born and raised. Lots of things have shaped Christianity in kind (and no,I don't mean anything sacred), and Christianity has not been the only influence on western society.

But it certainly has helped to influence western thought, and western philosophy. Western societies bear and perpetuate relics of Christian philosophy.

So it is no wonder that atheists and Christians can occasionally find a good deal of common ground from an ethical viewpoint.

Nothing wrong with knowing where your morals come from, as long as they ar your morals. If you have to look to a church or a political orgnaisation or a tabloid to be told how to feel about something, you need to learn how to think for yourself.

the OP wrote:

So, I was wondering AHers, if push came to shove, where would your loyalties lie?

I would consider myself a socialist, yet, I think my Christianity would come first.

My point is, I don't consider myself anything other and an indiviadual.

later12

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with knowing where your morals come from, as long as they ar your morals.

Our morals are never really our own. Even the fact of finding a particular ethical or moral viewpoint palatable is the product of one's environment and the opinions that are usually found appealing therein.

The Christian influence, along with other moral and philosophical influences permeate all levels of our lives. They do not just define the strains of opinion that persist today, but they have conditioned the very attitudes which makes such strains appealing or unappealing.

We are prisoners to our own circumstances, there is evidence of society's influence in every sinew and fibre of our bodies. It has crept under our skin, and we can never really be rid of it.

But it does unite us all,and perhaps that is part of the reason why human beings have never quite manage to wipe one another out.

Sisko

When I hear the term Christian values I generally think of it as the excuse homophobic right wing Americans use to justify their discrimination and intolerance of others.

The whole million mothers V Ellen thing for a recent example.


Personally my loyalties lie with the 'not being an ignorant cunt' set of values.

Benny_Cake

Tomk1 wrote: »

Has christianity ever done anything that didn't suit it's own self interest? Thereby how can any of it's actions be moral.

Bernhard Lichtenberg prayed for the Jews at his church and condemned their persecution by the Nazis, which landed him in a concentration camp and ended with his death. That's one example. There are plenty of Christians, today and throughout history, have given of themselves to the poor, the sick and the weak for little or no material reward. You seem to be saying that all of these people acted only out of self-interest, which is ludicrous.

up for anything

Pdfile wrote: »

Im lost on the m50, i think ill just drive up it the wrong way and pretend im a women.

Ronin247 wrote: »

oh no you didn't, the feminazis will be right over.....

Must be great being you and never having to queue up in the chipper, just reaching for your shoulders when you feel peckish. :rolleyes:

flanders1979

The other half is watching Whitney Crackhead Houstons funeral on some odd channel.
R Kelly the great lover of youth is about to sing.
God help us all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

later12 wrote: »

Our morals are never really our own. Even the fact of finding a particular ethical or moral viewpoint palatable is the product of one's environment and the opinions that are usually found appealing therein.

The Christian influence, along with other moral and philosophical influences permeate all levels of our lives. They do not just define the strains of opinion that persist today, but they have conditioned the very attitudes which makes such strains appealing or unappealing.

We are prisoners to our own circumstances, there is evidence of society's influence in every sinew and fibre of our bodies. It has crept under our skin, and we can never really be rid of it.

But it does unite us all,and perhaps that is part of the reason why human beings have never quite manage to wipe one another out.

You're not getting my point: the morals I have I have because I accepted them and did not reject them. Me. Not a chuch, nor a politcal affiliation, me. They may not be anything ground-breaking or new, and I don't claim to be a philosopher, but they are mine in that I believe in them and not because someone else told me to. If I had doen the, latter, then yes - they would not be my morals.

We are prisoners of our circumstances, but we are unique in that we hold the key to the locks that bind us. We're just too bloody lazy to use them.

AngryBollix

Dont our values change with age and experience?

later12

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Ythe morals I have I have because I accepted them

No, you didn't accept them: the environments to which you were exposed and the relationships which you formed produced a philosophical stew which determined for you what you, as the last step in the process, will accept, and determined for you what you will reject.

There is no free will. There is no truly personal choice when it comes to belief. No man can separate himself from his environment, nor can he take praise or blame for his beliefs.

carfiosaoorl

I just follow my own moral compass, nothing to do with christianity or anything else.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

later12 wrote: »

No, you didn't accept them: the environments to which you were exposed and the relationships which you formed produced a philosophical stew which determined for you what you, as the last step in the process, will accept, and determined for you what you will reject.

There is no free will. There is no truly personal choice when it comes to belief. No man can separate himself from his environment, nor can he take praise or blame for his beliefs.

No, again, the environment merely provided me with the tools and raw materials. Say, for example, I believe that paedophilia shoudl be legalised (I don't, before anyone engages the bandwagon). The environment certainly did not put that viewpoint in my head.

I think (and perhaps I am wrong) what yo are trying to say here is that there is no unique choice. Everything comes from somwhere. And all options may covered as well, and choices may well be illusions, to quote George Carlin, but an individual still makes that choice.

If I choose to get on a plane tomorrow, the airport and the airline may have influenced my decision as environmental factors, but they did not make the choice for me.

tdv123

Drugs, ye gotta have drugs.

lmaopml

Some philosophies of life especially those based on naturalism will always say that your life, your person and indeed your choices are 'determined' in some way or another, all caught up in a mechanical whirl wind, or chemical composition etc, at the very least free choice is only within statistical boundaries of birth.

Strictly speaking, so too does Christianity, there is an element of foreknowledge that must be understood properly - however from a Catholic point of view, a persons value insofar as their choices are concerned is strictly determined by their 'free choices' that are free, totally free.

A person is a free soul, and their choices are free too - not pre-determined - so we live, we make choices, not mechanical ones, and certainly not random statistical ones, but choices that are strictly available to humans to make or seek out on a persons journey through life.