When is a man gay?

MarriedButBi

I read some really interesting posts on another site recently. It was called "Men who crave <phallus> but arent attracted to men".

It makes for interesting reading. There are over 2,200 posts, most of which are from guys who seem to have the same predeliction: wanting to orally pleasure a phallus, or wanting to indulge in anal sex with a phallus.

Sorry for keeping using the word "phallus". The reason I'm using it is because I have limited vocabularly, and also there is a distinction here between wanting to give a guy oral pleasure, or wanting to have anal sex with a guy.

Now, it could be that there's a lot of denial here. Or splitting of hairs. But for me it pretty much totally sums up what I would have fantasies about. I have never been attracted to a man. The thought of kissing a man, or becoming emotionally close to a man is anathema. Whereas the above outlined sexual acts with a man are a real turn on to me. But even in the heat of such an act, I think I would still be repulsed by the thought of kissing a guy.

I buy into the whole notion that very few people are all straight or all gay, I think most of us are on a spectrum in between the two extremes. That said, I'm not sure that this preference or desire for such sexual experiences makes you gay. Or do many things make you gay? I dont like watching gay porn, I have never seen a guy and swooned at his looks. But is all that just irrelevant, does the fact that I'd like to give oral pleasure and have a man inside me make me equally gay, or more gay. Or is the sexual side of it less relevant.

I'm interested in all views on this. Maybe it has been discussed to death before and I have missed it. I have read input from gay men on here who are in relationships that are not sexual, maybe there are several parts or elements to sexuality: physical, sexual, emotional etc etc.

I'm really interested to see what people think on this. Maybe the whole growth in the popularity of pre-op transexual porn is based on some sort of pretty common desire that "straight" men have. Or maybe they are just not straight at all.

ps - I'm less interested in people passing judgement on my marital status, and the appropriateness of my entertaining these thoughts & desires, so I'll probably just ignore comments of that nature!

LegacyUser

Hey, you have literally described by current fantasies, feelings towards women and the phallus exactly. I'm in my early 30's now and these sexual desires only appeared 2 years ago. I have never talked to anyone about it or even posted on it online, in fact I haven't even read up on it that much. I know I'm not 'gay' in terms of the text book description but I would not feel comfortable even telling a girlfriend about these thoughts, for fear that she would think that I am hiding some more intimite feelings towards men.

I'm single now and have been thinking that if I am ever going to go through with it, the time is probably now. In the form of a one night stand with a 'straight' guy with similar fantasies to avoid the whole kissing and possible emotions a guy that is emotionly and physically attracted to men might bring. To build upon MarriedButBi questions; I would be really interested to hear if guys here in this situation have carried out this fantasy and afterwards continued life happily satisfied that they experienced it? We only live once eh!!

MarriedButBi thank you so much for writing this post! I had no idea that such a large portion of men felt this.

floggg

I've no idea what you are but what does it matter. Gay, straight or bi are only labels. It's not something that you necessarily "are" in the sense that changes the person you are in any material sense.

If you want to blow a guy without identifying as gay, go for it.

Do you think it would in anyway change the person you are if you did it?

MarriedButBi

Thanks for the responses. "me too" - it sounds like you're in the perfect situation to experiment, if I was you I would go for it. Good luck! And report back!! It's unlikely to be a "life changing experience", I doubt it will be like a bolt of lightning where you only want phallus and can no longer see the beauty of a nice rack

Floggg, I suppose I was kind of getting at a more philosophical question - the idea that there are so many levels to "want" someone, and further that women dont have c0cks so if you like them and like women, something has to give.

But maybe your answer suffices for all angles!

PK72

You have a penis fetish - that's about it really.

Aurongroove

second poster; If you're single and curious, why not try dating a transsexual or transgender woman?


As for OP, being attracted to male genitals but not finding the prospect of emotional closeness with another man palatable is a new one on me.
As you said something's gotta give:
You could try overcome your psychological disassociation with men (including their emotional states) and their penises; there are men attached to penises, and they come complete with emotions and desires (there's a sentences I never though I'd say). You should probably spend some time thinking about wither it's just that the concept of you loving a man like you would a woman never dawned on you until recently and is strange because it is unexpected, rather then strange because it is unnatural to you.
OR
as another poster put it wither you are just fetishising willies, perhaps based on your own sexual experiences? (i.e. 'I wonder what it's like to be ****ed with a penis? no person attached, just the sensation of a phallus in love making in an other wise 'normal' love session')


In which case, (gently and sensitively) ask your wife if she's willing to experiment with a sex toys.:D

Dwn Wth Vwls

It's a very common occurrence, that I think we'd be mostly oblivious to if it weren't for the anonymity of the internet. I suppose personally I have two main theories as to why so many people feel this way.

Firstly, it could simply be men that are not 100% straight. If you were 95% straight, perhaps you would only like women and male genitals. Only if you were further along the spectrum of sexuality would you begin to appreciate more.

Secondly, the more complicated theory. I think opinions about sexuality are formed quite early by socialisation (learning what's "normal" from society). So despite there being drastic changes recently in society's opinion of sexuality, adults have grown up with quite a different view.

Many people who are not 100% straight are terrified at the idea of revealing this to anyone.The idea of same-sex relationships feels completely alien and they have no role models for same sex intimacy. It's not something they grew up with, and it's difficult to imagine themselves in that scenario.

I suspect that in the future, things will be quite different. People will have the confidence to say "yes, I sometimes like guys, but I really prefer women". Without all of the fears, and with proper role models, people will relax and enjoy their attractions and there will be a lot less people who can't see beyond the phallus.

wonderfulname

Sexual and emotional interests don't always care to have anything to do with each other, neither to fantasy and real-world interests. None of them are back and white, rather a tediously large number of shades of grey. The world has a very limited vocabulary with regards sexuality, and sexuality is just a complex mess, so the odds are a hell of a lot of people are not going to comfortably fit in one of the few, limited pigeon holes regarding it.

What makes you gay? By definition, an exclusive interest, across all these areas, in the same sex.

Do I think that definition makes sense, or that all people who use it fit it, or fit it use it? No.

Does it matter? Not in the slightest, if you know who you are, and what definition sits best with you, what is it to anyone else?

Still praying for the day when nobody cares about any of this...

cafecolour

Aurongroove wrote: »

second poster; If you're single and curious, why not try dating a transsexual or transgender woman?

I second this - this is why most guys who attracted to pre-op trans are straight - they don't want a guy - they want a woman - and a penis. (Gay men, OTOH, want the penis attached to a man).

As to the OP, I believe in a range bisexuality, and moreover, I believe that it doesn't mean you have to be attracted to both genders in the same way. You could predominately want relationships with women but enjoy mutual-masturbation with men in a 'horseplay' sort of way. You could like dominating (and penetrating) a woman, and want to be dominated by a man. You could be a gay man who gets turned on by women watching him have gay sex. And so on - I've met all these examples.

The other argument is essentially that you only want the penis because society has conditioned you that male-male love is wrong, so you are performing a sort of cognitive dissonance by separating the penis from the man. While I see some points of this argument, it does suppose there's some sort of ideal sexuality and romance that could be the same for anyone (and the rest is just societal), and I'm not sure that's true.

Anyway, on the practical level, it's immaterial. You like what you like. And you're married - fantasies are grand, but being 'bi' doesn't grant a license to cheat on your spouse with the opposite sex. So either decide on an open marriage, or, as Aurongroove, suggested, see if your wife would be into 'pegging' you.

Conor30

I can see a thread like this stirring up a huge argument yet! LOL

Anyway, it is an interesting question as to what makes someone 'gay'. To not want to kiss a guy but yet to go down on him and suck his cock...hmmm. In my opinion, the latter is more intimate.

You occasionally see girls, who self-identify as 'straight', kissing each other for a laugh but the same girls wouldn't dream of going down on each other.

And they are guys who self-identify as 'gay', yet have zero desire to have emotional ties with a guy or anything that resembles a relationship. They just have sex (oral and/or anal) with random men. And then there are other men who also self-identify as gay and ARE in a relationship but never have anal sex, as they both dislike it. And then there are some men who self-identify as straight but still have sexual interaction of some kind with other men and the list goes on.

Sexual identity is rather subjective, it seems. That's why the term 'men who have sex with men' was created to include men who (rightly or wrongly) don't feel they fall under the umbrella of LGBT.

floggg

Is the penis a big turn on for the gay guys on here?

Personally I don't really desire the penis itself but the man attached to it. the penis though isn't exactly what turns me on or excites and i certainly dont get turned on by the idea of performing oral on one or anything.

Is the "penis" more of an object of desire for people with cd/tg fetishes than gay men i wonder?

Conor30

The penis or phallus lol would turn me on. I don't mind the size of it though.

Barna77

When is a man gay?

Id' say when he loves a bit of cock makes him gay....


:pac:

runs away

Aurongroove

For me, yes. Primary (genitals) and secondary (facial/body hair, strong builds, skeletal shape) male sex characteristics are the only think that register on the sonar for me.

Pacifist Pigeon

Personally, it's a cute face that registers with me first, then the nether regions, then build.

Aurongroove

you are sexually attracted to cute faces?

Pacifist Pigeon

Aurongroove wrote: »

you are sexually attracted to cute faces?

Use your imagination.

Anyway, it's obviously something to do with sexuality if I'm more attracted to a cute guy's face than a cute woman's face, isn't it?

peter barrins

This post has been deleted.

Annasopra

The reason health professionals use the term men who have sex with men (msm) is because there are men who engage in homosexual activities but don't identify as gay

Aurongroove

mango salsa wrote: »

The reason health professionals use the term men who have sex with men (msm) is because there are men who engage in homosexual activities but don't identify as gay

it can be such a load of **** can't it? semantics.
On one hand you have people crying "I'm half bi-curious who identifies as a half post op, gender-troubled individual" and then you have another person saying "Oh who need labels!?, why can't we all just love who we want?"

Well I say why can't we just have a few labels, which everyone agrees on their meaning, that the meaning isn't offensive and that we allow ourselves to go no more anal about those meanings then is needed for black & white no nonsense social biological and scientific descriptions nor so flippant that they become meaningless.

Annasopra

Aurongroove wrote: »

it can be such a load of **** can't it? semantics.
On one hand you have people crying "I'm half bi-curious who identifies as a half post op, gender-troubled individual" and then you have another person saying "Oh who need labels!?, why can't we all just love who we want?"

Well I say why can't we just have a few labels, which everyone agrees on their meaning, that the meaning isn't offensive and that we allow ourselves to go no more anal about those meanings then is needed for black & white no nonsense social biological and scientific descriptions nor so flippant that they become meaningless.

It honestly doesn't bother me too much. If people want to label themselves as queer or pomosexual then let them.

Aurongroove

mango salsa wrote: »

It honestly doesn't bother me too much. If people want to label themselves as queer or pomosexual then let them.

the funny thing is, wither this is actually a new word that I haven't heard of or a spelling mistake is probably 50/50

Annasopra

Aurongroove wrote: »

the funny thing is, wither this is actually a new word that I haven't heard of or a spelling mistake is probably 50/50

not a spelling mistake

cianisgood

MarriedButBi wrote: »

I read some really interesting posts on another site recently. It was called "Men who crave <phallus> but arent attracted to men".

It makes for interesting reading. There are over 2,200 posts, most of which are from guys who seem to have the same predeliction: wanting to orally pleasure a phallus, or wanting to indulge in anal sex with a phallus.

Sorry for keeping using the word "phallus". The reason I'm using it is because I have limited vocabularly, and also there is a distinction here between wanting to give a guy oral pleasure, or wanting to have anal sex with a guy.

Now, it could be that there's a lot of denial here. Or splitting of hairs. But for me it pretty much totally sums up what I would have fantasies about. I have never been attracted to a man. The thought of kissing a man, or becoming emotionally close to a man is anathema. Whereas the above outlined sexual acts with a man are a real turn on to me. But even in the heat of such an act, I think I would still be repulsed by the thought of kissing a guy.

I buy into the whole notion that very few people are all straight or all gay, I think most of us are on a spectrum in between the two extremes. That said, I'm not sure that this preference or desire for such sexual experiences makes you gay. Or do many things make you gay? I dont like watching gay porn, I have never seen a guy and swooned at his looks. But is all that just irrelevant, does the fact that I'd like to give oral pleasure and have a man inside me make me equally gay, or more gay. Or is the sexual side of it less relevant.

I'm interested in all views on this. Maybe it has been discussed to death before and I have missed it. I have read input from gay men on here who are in relationships that are not sexual, maybe there are several parts or elements to sexuality: physical, sexual, emotional etc etc.

I'm really interested to see what people think on this. Maybe the whole growth in the popularity of pre-op transexual porn is based on some sort of pretty common desire that "straight" men have. Or maybe they are just not straight at all.

ps - I'm less interested in people passing judgement on my marital status, and the appropriateness of my entertaining these thoughts & desires, so I'll probably just ignore comments of that nature!

if you love a man and want to spent the rest of your life with him you're gay

Annasopra

cianisgood wrote: »

if you love a man and want to spent the rest of your life with him you're gay

or bisexual

Aurongroove

mango salsa wrote: »

not a spelling mistake

then I don't want to ask...

wonderfulname

mango salsa wrote: »

or bisexual

or pansexual
or back to pomosexual
or a straight woman
or a very clingy friend

Put that in your QUILTBAGPIPE and smoke it

PK72

Aurongroove wrote: »

it can be such a load of **** can't it? semantics.
On one hand you have people crying "I'm half bi-curious who identifies as a half post op, gender-troubled individual" and then you have another person saying "Oh who need labels!?, why can't we all just love who we want?"

Well I say why can't we just have a few labels, which everyone agrees on their meaning, that the meaning isn't offensive and that we allow ourselves to go no more anal about those meanings then is needed for black & white no nonsense social biological and scientific descriptions nor so flippant that they become meaningless.

Why does there have to be any labels at all? Just be who you want to be. It seems to me that is a person isn't conventionally straight there is some need to assign one of an endless array of tags. I don't see why sexuality requires this explicit definition. If you feel like sucking a cock then suck one - the act does not require you to assign a definition to yourself. People are complex and interesting and trying to reduce a person to a label or set of labels is limiting and boring.

Aurongroove

there dosn't need to be labels, but there does need to be descriptions.

Slang_Tang

Like WonderfulName mentioned, sexual and emotional desires should be taken into consideration.

A man's gay if he's exclusively attracted emotionally and sexually to men.

I don't agree with the "no labels" argument, though. We all like to believe we're individual, but realistically there are billions of other people on the planet, which means there are other people who are similar to you sexually, which means you're a type. We're all types.

MarriedButBi

Aurongroove wrote: »

second poster; If you're single and curious, why not try dating a transsexual or transgender woman?


As for OP, being attracted to male genitals but not finding the prospect of emotional closeness with another man palatable is a new one on me.
As you said something's gotta give:
You could try overcome your psychological disassociation with men (including their emotional states) and their penises; there are men attached to penises, and they come complete with emotions and desires (there's a sentences I never though I'd say). You should probably spend some time thinking about wither it's just that the concept of you loving a man like you would a woman never dawned on you until recently and is strange because it is unexpected, rather then strange because it is unnatural to you.
OR
as another poster put it wither you are just fetishising willies, perhaps based on your own sexual experiences? (i.e. 'I wonder what it's like to be ****ed with a penis? no person attached, just the sensation of a phallus in love making in an other wise 'normal' love session')


In which case, (gently and sensitively) ask your wife if she's willing to experiment with a sex toys.:D

Yhanks for the response. I have really close relationships with lots of men, I dont believe I have any issues with the potential of forming close emotional relationships with men, akin to those I have formed with women.

As you say, I think it is more a question of experimentation with sex toys. This has come up a few times, but nothing has happened yet - a work in progress, you might say!

MarriedButBi

Another comment, regarding lables etc. I totally understand & agree with people on this - why bother trying to label people. I suppose, where I am coming from anyway, is a situation where I have grown up always considering myself straight, always involved in straight relationships etc. In a way, I suppose I'm trying to understand what I am. I'm not necessarily interested in getting a label for myself, more interested in getting a general understanding of what I am. And maybe getting some input from people who might empathise, as the second poster did. I suppose, put simply, I want to suck cock, I want to be f@#ked in the ass. I dont think this makes me "as gay" as someone who swoons over guys, or has fallen in love with guys, but it doesnt really matter, nor does it change the basic circumstances.

Slang_Tang

MarriedButBi wrote: »

I suppose, put simply, I want to suck cock, I want to be f@#ked in the ass. I dont think this makes me "as gay" as someone who swoons over guys, or has fallen in love with guys, but it doesnt really matter, nor does it change the basic circumstances.

You're sexually attracted to men but not emotionally attracted. That's fair enough.

wonderfulname

MarriedButBi wrote: »

In a way, I suppose I'm trying to understand what I am. I'm not necessarily interested in getting a label for myself, more interested in getting a general understanding of what I am.

I get ya, I'd imagine most if not all of the people here do. I think the message is you are who you are, and nobody else can really explain who that is, you just need to get your head around it. Note who, not what, you are human after all...

MarriedButBi

Yes. Definitely human alright! Thanks for the input people.

baby and crumble

MarriedButBi wrote: »

Yes. Definitely human alright! Thanks for the input people.

OP- google "pegging". I think it might help.

MarriedButBi

I know all about pegging, thanks. There is an unfortunate difference between knowledge of soemthing and convincing her indoors that its something "we" should try!!

Slang_Tang

baby and crumble wrote: »

OP- google "pegging". I think it might help.

New word for the day.

Babybuff

now I want to play peggle

LegacyUser

MarriedButBi wrote: »

I suppose, put simply, I want to suck cock, I want to be f@#ked in the ass.

classic, this made me laugh. I couldn't have put it better myself, except to add in a few pre-experiment drinks to loosen up a bit... no pun intended!!!

I agree with you all in that peoples complex feelings cannot be classified by labels but the irony is that I do not want to be wrongly labelled, because a man's life can be drastically changed forever from sexual labels. So (if) any experimentation on my part will have to be kept a secret in my mind forever... or anonymous on boards that is!

Although the female sexual revolution has moved women into a situation where they can experiment in 'same sex' sex and relationships and then return to a heterosexual relationship... and continue on unlabelled. I still don't believe men will see this freedom in my lifetime and not just from other men but from women either. In fact I think women would be even more hostile towards this new male sexual revolution.

Heck I dunno... any women on here care to enlighten me??

oisindoyle

baby and crumble wrote: »

OP- google "pegging". I think it might help.

My God! In all my years on this earth I never knew it had a name,,

oisindoyle

me too... wrote: »

classic, this made me laugh. I couldn't have put it better myself, except to add in a few pre-experiment drinks to loosen up a bit... no pun intended!!!

I agree with you all in that peoples complex feelings cannot be classified by labels but the irony is that I do not want to be wrongly labelled, because a man's life can be drastically changed forever from sexual labels. So (if) any experimentation on my part will have to be kept a secret in my mind forever... or anonymous on boards that is!

Although the female sexual revolution has moved women into a situation where they can experiment in 'same sex' sex and relationships and then return to a heterosexual relationship... and continue on unlabelled. I still don't believe men will see this freedom in my lifetime and not just from other men but from women either. In fact I think women would be even more hostile towards this new male sexual revolution.

Heck I dunno... any women on here care to enlighten me??

Hmmm,I not too sure I like your "interpertataion" of how things are in reality.
Well the reality is WE are all labelled.Be that gay straight bi whatever.

How you can say a mans life can be "drastically changed" from sexual labels is to a degree odd.

Your comments has the undertone that for example a man coming out is wrong and shocking,whereas in reality it is NOT wrong to come out as gay and most coming out experiences are positive .

Perhaps if one was married to a woman and "came out "then perhaps you could say a mans life could change drastically in that it is the end of a marriage(possibly) ect ,but in reality the man is accepting who he is and being who he really is.

Why do you feel you need to anything in secret?

As for your comment ..."the female sexual revolution has moved women into a situation where they can experiment in 'same sex' sex and relationships and then return to a heterosexual relationship... and continue on unlabelled",,,,,that to me is daft

The sexual revolution of women didnt entail this at all ..how did u come to this bizzare conclusion ???

If SOME women want to have same sex relationships and then go onto having a hetro relationship ,then so be it ,but that has nothing to do with a "sexual revolution of women "...

oisindoyle

MarriedButBi wrote: »

I know all about pegging, thanks. There is an unfortunate difference between knowledge of soemthing and convincing her indoors that its something "we" should try!!

but did you ask your wife ? or are u assumeing she will say no ?
what does she think of your feelings and wanting to have sex with men ?

bodice ripper

I am female and recently signed up to a dating site. I get three or four completely unsolicited emails a week from men asking me would I be into pegging them*. I don't think its a gay thing at all.


*results are probably skewed slightly by being heavily tattooed, it does tend to cause people to believe that I am up for anything.

Slang_Tang

baby and crumble wrote: »

OP- google "pegging". I think it might help.

If you Google pegging, this is one of the first images that comes up. Haha. Made my day.

floggg

me too... wrote: »

I agree with you all in that peoples complex feelings cannot be classified by labels but the irony is that I do not want to be wrongly labelled, because a man's life can be drastically changed forever from sexual labels. So (if) any experimentation on my part will have to be kept a secret in my mind forever... or anonymous on boards that is!

I think it's easy enough to have that view from the inside of the closet (not saying your gay or whatever). I know I certainly had the same fear about being defined by the gay label before coming out.

In reality, I don't think it's the case. I certainly dont feel defined by the term gay, nor do I think anybody else does.

I have a good friend who went through a period of experimentation, but now sees himself as straight. Sure there is an odd joke about his "phase" but nobody thinks any different of him, and it's far from the first thing you think of when he's brought up in conversation.

Aurongroove

The best example I can think of is someone like Stephan Fry or Ian McKellen: gay is far from the first thing which jumps at you when you think of these people.


For the first while (out) you feel that as soon as people find out you're gay, they just see GAY over your head but it really does dissipate very quickly.

coolperson05

baby and crumble wrote: »

OP- google "pegging". I think it might help.

What a way tO start my Friday! Brilliant!

MarriedButBi

oisindoyle wrote: »

but did you ask your wife ? or are u assumeing she will say no ?
what does she think of your feelings and wanting to have sex with men ?

We have discussed it in a lighthearted manner, the feeling I get is that she wouldn't be up for it.

whattoputhere

Hi All,

I just came across this thread and I have a very similar issue to the OP. I am in a relationship with a very beautiful woman for the past year and a half whom I love very much. I have no intention of ever breaking up with her but there is one slight problem - I am dying to suck a cock. She is not interested in having a threesome with a man but is also unaware of my secret craving.

To give you a brief history, I have been with 4 guys over the past ten years. Two of those times I liked it, two of those times I didn't. Months or even years can go by and I would have no interest in being with a man then suddenly my craving comes back and as soon as I'm with a guy once, my craving for is satisfied and I won't even think about it for months again. It's weird but I will never be in a relationship with a guy, I couldn't. I'm not attracted emotionally to men, only to their willies.

My desire has been with me for the last few weeks now and I'm still turned on by my girlfriend but I find myself masturbating alone at the thought of orally pleasing a man.

So what should I do? Given that my girl is the shy type, I doubt she'd ever been on for watching while I am with another guy. In fact, I don't know how she would react were I to tell her.

I haven't been with anyone else since I met her and I'm not a do the dirt kind of guy. I'm not interested in being with another woman because I love her but she hasn't got a penis so I'm unsure what to do. Advice anyone?

PS: I should also mention that I have a desire to be ****ed by a man but have never done it. It's not as strong as my desire to administer fellatio though.