Daysul with some "power" for €12k?

Atomic Pineapple

Looking to get a diesel in anticipation of having a 100 km a day commute at some stage during this year.

Want something that's got a decent bit of power though with remapping potential and thats nice to drive as well as being comfortable.

I reckon I'd have around €12k to play with after getting the ST valued as a trade in. Would like something with miles around 80k max, hatchback,saloon or coupe, tax isn't an issue so any engine size.

So far I've looked at :

Civic 2.2 GT diesel - really nice and my preferred option probably in reality when I take in all the factors but I can't find a GT spec'ced one within budget and the standard non GT variants lack the nice finishing touches and extras I want from the GT.

BMW 320D Coupe - Really like these but only in coupe form and in the same way as the GT is out of budget the nicer coupes seem to command too much money for what you get.

Lexus IS220d - Dont really know much about these, look nice but I've only just started to look at them so know nothing about them, also I think they have some bad reviews?

So I'm wondering if there's anything else I should look at when it comes to looking for a diesel for €12k? Not interested in anything TDi from the VAG group really and nothing lower than 150bhp(before remapping).

Thoughts?

Leonard Hofstadter

What about a 530d? Good to drive, plenty of power (and even more after a remap:D), and most will have a decent spec. You should easily be able to get one of those in your budget, although it might be going back as far as a 06 or even a little older (not that that should really matter too much). Alternatively there is the 535d if you need even more go - 272 bhp minimum from one of those!

166man

Ford Mondeo ST TDCI? Think they are 160bhp or something you could remap to 190bhp?

Alfa 1.9 JTDm respond well to a remap too.

conzy

You could get a really nice E60 530D in M Sport trim for that kind of money. An E92 330D would be perfect but I think they might be a bit more than €12k still. You could try and find a nice clean 05/06 E46 330D coupe either?

535d for €8500

pburns

Legacy Diesel? Early ones not too far from €12k at thos point.

Why not the Accord if the Civic appeal?

challengemaster

Consider importing too, got mine up north and it came in 4k cheaper than anything listed down here, and that's after paying VRT

drunkmonkey

If you buy my is220d at a reasonable price then I can go buy this http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=2113280166123670 Just fancy a drop top for the summer.
IS is a swift car but you have to push it to get the best out of it. It's a lot more luxury than the bmw or audis.

heate

conzymaher wrote: »

You could get a really nice E60 530D in M Sport trim for that kind of money. An E92 330D would be perfect but I think they might be a bit more than €12k still. You could try and find a nice clean 05/06 E46 330D coupe either?

535d for €8500

Tis strange most 330d's seem to somehow be more valuable used than 530d's maybe there's an assumption of lower running costs even though they have the same running gear!
A 530d has a decent bit of poke and is reasonably economical 100km daily commute at say 6.5l (when not givin it the full beans).
A low milage well cared for one is what you should be on the look out for - the registration year shouldn't really be of concern the E60 is still quite striking!
As for buying an mSport for doing biggish miles - may not be the most sensible idea. I.e cost of tyres and level of wear could mean a set every year at €250odd a corner

Idbatterim

that 535d is damn quick, but with a remap...

http://www.dmsautomotive.com/reviews.asp?gsel=1&gselid=4

there are quite a few nice 320cd on donedeal. how many miles per year will y9u be putting on the car OP?

challengemaster

heate wrote: »

As for buying an mSport for doing biggish miles - may not be the most sensible idea. I.e cost of tyres and level of wear could mean a set every year at €250odd a corner

It'd be worth it alone for the msport seats - the normal seats can cause some back pain if you're doing a lot of miles in them, or so I've found with mine anyway.

conzy

heate wrote: »

The E60 is still quite striking!

Hard to believe it came out in 2003, still very mean and modern looking I think

coolbeans

RS4 TDI for the win. Awesome power and economy.

mullingar

coolbeans wrote: »

RS4 TDI for the win. Awesome power and economy.

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not , but read the OPs post again

TheBazman

Idbatterim wrote: »

that 535d is damn quick, but with a remap...

http://www.dmsautomotive.com/reviews.asp?gsel=1&gselid=4

there are quite a few nice 320cd on donedeal. how many miles per year will y9u be putting on the car OP?

You can only get the DMS done up North - there are a few places around Dublin that would do a remap...and yes a remapped 535d is v quick:)

mullingar

^^^^^^ Says the man with his own 360hp+ chipped 535d

EPM

€12k might get you a nice 2.2 newer model Mondeo from the UK. 175bhp and good remap potential.

RXMPS

335d/330d and the like are madness unless your earning serious money and your not going to save much money on fuel with 1400 euro road tax.

If you have to think about saving money, then a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with killer road tax and two turbo's is not for you.

I would love one too, but they are madness unless your earning 75k+ a year imo.

They are not exactly good on fuel either, if you drive it on it wont be much better than your Focus on fuel, most owners on the bmw forums are getting real world 32-34mpg.

Whatever diesel yoke you buy won't be anywhere near as much fun and balanced as your Focus.Engine note of that is gorgeous and with a remap it's very quick.

Volvo S40 140bhp for 5k and keep your money, as whatever you buy will be worse than your Focus.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2889279

TheBazman

RXMPS wrote: »

If you have to think about saving money, then a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with killer road tax and two turbo's is not for you.

True

most owners on the bmw forums are getting real world 32-34mpg.

True

Focus.Engine note of that is gorgeous and with a remap it's very quick.

Gorgeous?

bazz26

Saab 9-3 1.9 TTiD Aero - twin turbo and 180bhp from the factory. This should be going for around the €13k mark. That garage has a few similar ones with higher mileage for around €12k.


http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=713262818242920

h3000

How about a Legacy Diesel

147bhp standard AWD. Very nice car to drive. I think they can be mapped to about 190bhp

Tea 1000

No reply from dafford yet with yay's or nay's on suggestions!
The Honda 2.2 is a nice engine to be fair, and very reliable. Not quite as refined in the Civic as in the Accord, due to some adjustments to the engine Honda had to make to get it to fit in the tighter engine bay. The Civic corners reasonably well (not quite Focus well, and well off Focus ST obviously!), but can be a little harsher than expected over rough roads.
320d's, particularly in 177 form, are very good, but hard to find a very clean, genuine one that isn't silly money. Definitely one of the top 3 or 4 four-pot diesels around, nice handling car that feels quite agile and is nice and responsive. Not a fan of interior, and is harsh on rough roads and around town, particularly on run-flats.
Lexus is more comfortable and nicer inside than 3-series, better damping means a better ride on crap roads, but there's a trade-off in the back-road ability as a result, however, not by much. It does feel rather heavy compared to the feel of a 3, but it still bites nicely on turn-in and is very composed over tight roads, making it unexpectedly competent. Engine doesn't really feel like it has 175bhp and prefers mid to higher end punch to low down stuff. Silly gear ratios don't help, and not as economical as BMW or Honda engines. Can't be remapped either. There is a chip you can get, but I prefer a proper re-map. Easier to find clean examples however, and a few grand less than a 3.
Legacy is a bit agricultural inside and not all that roomy, but that's about where the criticisms end. I'd rate the Honda, Subaru and BMW 4-pot diesels as the better ones out there, with Fiat and only the latest VW ones after. The Legacy is a nice handling car and comfortable, but still pricey and very hard to come by.
A 530d seems like one of the better value diesels out there, but tax is the biggest kick in the nuts with this one. It's hard enough forking out over 900 for the Honda or Lexus in pre-08 form, but try adding another 500 on!
Merc diesels are not bad either, but you won't get a new shape C-class for anywhere near that budget, they're almost double it! Not too many more options out there, 159 is nice but chassis is a bit outclassed these days, a 2.4 would be excellent, but good luck trying to find one!!
Anything else decent is too dear!

166man

Actually a 159 2.4JTDm in from the UK would be a nice car alright, I'm sure you could land a decent one for 12k.

RXMPS

RXMPS wrote: »

335d/330d and the like are madness unless your earning serious money and your not going to save much money on fuel with 1400 euro road tax.

If you have to think about saving money, then a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with killer road tax and two turbo's is not for you.............

Does a 330d have two ?
If doing 100km work commute I'd reckon a 330d or a 530d would be perfect, the tax isn't that bad coming from a Focus ST.

Atomic Pineapple

Going up north or abroad isn't really an option as realistically I'll have to trade the ST in, which isn't all that bad as I'm getting decent trade in prices on it that match what I'd expect to get for it in a private sale anyway.

I like the suggestion of a 330d but my choice in them is really limited when it comes to only have €12k to spend I'm afraid! The 5 series seems to offer a better choice for my budget but all seem to be over 100 k miles on them, something which I could probably deal with it I knew a bit more about BMW's.

I don't really like Legacy diesels to be honest, purely from a style point of view.

I really really do like that Saab though but how reliable would it be?

draffodx

draffodx wrote: »

............ I'm getting decent trade in prices on it that match what I'd expect to get for it in a private sale anyway.............

Really? Weren't you looking for the guts of €10,000 for it?

Atomic Pineapple

RoverJames wrote: »

Really? Weren't you looking for the guts of €10,000 for it?

Dropped the price ages ago.

I was looking for just under 10K but no interest at all and looking up prices its apparent that under 8K is what they're going for now

guyfo

heate wrote: »

As for buying an mSport for doing biggish miles - may not be the most sensible idea. I.e cost of tyres and level of wear could mean a set every year at €250odd a corner

I dont know where you get your tyres but id advise a new shop! Try more like tyres every 2 years at €170 a corner fitted.

The one thing people say about my 320d e46 msport is that its so comfy. Long journeys are effortless in an msport.

mullingar

MSport.... Great suspension for blasting around back-roads, but IMO for long drives..... dare I say it, I'd prefer the softer SE set-up.

OR I'd fit smaller wheels from the standard 19" (I think), say 17"-18" where you get extra comfort with the bigger side walls and the tyres are cheaper!

Atomic Pineapple

mullingar wrote: »

MSport.... Great suspension for blasting around back-roads, but IMO for long drives..... dare I say it, I'd prefer the softer SE set-up.

OR I'd fit smaller wheels from the standard 19" (I think), say 17"-18" where you get extra comfort with the bigger side walls and the tyres are cheaper!

I've Eibach's on the ST, I can't imagine the M sport suspension being worse and I've driven the ST all around the country without issue . So its not really a concern of mine, at least not for a few more years

mullingar

As you have ~12k and are looking for a decent spec car, I'd say you will be taxing something in the old tax system.

Doing 20kmiles/yr, your tax & fuel costs:
2.5T ST @ 25mpg: Fuel €5,800 + €1,000 tax = €6,800/yr
2.0 TD @ 45mpg: Fuel €3,120 + 660 tax = €3,800/yr
3.0 TD @ 38mpg: Fuel €3,700 + 1400 tax = €5,100/yr

So, the 530D is only ~€100/month more to keep on the road than a 320D!

I know what I would go for!

Matt Simis

166man wrote: »

Actually a 159 2.4JTDm in from the UK would be a nice car alright, I'm sure you could land a decent one for 12k.

There was 2 on Donedeal last year, around 6-9k for Irish models, so 12k is not needed! Great engine and great looking car.

Atomic Pineapple

Like this?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/159/DIESEL-2/713247271881670/advert?channel=CARS

MrDerp

Have you considered a D5 Volvo S60? 5 cylinder engine with 185PS from 2006.

I know nothing of remap potential, just throwing out a car you might not have thought of.

166man

Matt Simis wrote: »

There was 2 on Donedeal last year, around 6-9k for Irish models, so 12k is not needed! Great engine and great looking car.

That one for €7k looks a bit rough really. I definitely go to the UK for a decent one. You would get a very nice one in for €12k, and can remap it up to 230bhp and still have 40mpg on the motorway. I'd have it over a 530d anyway, very rare on these shores.

Atomic Pineapple

166man wrote: »

That one for €7k looks a bit rough really. I definitely go to the UK for a decent one. You would get a very nice one in for €12k, and can remap it up to 230bhp and still have 40mpg on the motorway. I'd have it over a 530d anyway, very rare on these shores.

As posted before going abroad isn't an option though as trade in is most likely required.

EPM

Or a Brera with that engine...

166man

166man wrote: »

.......... I'd have it over a 530d anyway, very rare on these shores.

:eek:

Seriously?

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

:eek:

Seriously?

Yep, fully serious. A well specced 159 with that engine would definitely be my choice over a 530d for similar money...

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

:eek:

Seriously?

He does call himself 166man, not 530man

Atomic Pineapple

Any opinions on the Saab that bazz26 posted? For some reason its really jumped out at me but again don't know much about them.

Tea 1000

draffodx wrote: »

Any opinions on the Saab that bazz26 posted? For some reason its really jumped out at me but again don't know much about them.

I always wondered why there weren't more Saab 9-3's and Alfa 159's on the road, until I test-drove both of them. Now I only wonder why there aren't more Alfa 159's on the road.

R.O.R

draffodx wrote: »

Any opinions on the Saab that bazz26 posted? For some reason its really jumped out at me but again don't know much about them.

I remember talking to my Saab dealer about the 180bhp models when they put that engine in to the mainstream versions. He said it was more or less pointless as it just couldn't get the power down properly, and you'd be better off with the 150/160 version.

I've done my daily round trip in a few 1.9Tid 9-3's and was pretty impressed. Comfy seats, plenty of go from the 150 for overtaking and when you get bored, you can play with the night button and the fantastic cup holder. They do get a bit "loose" feeling when the mileage goes up on them though.

S60 was mentioned earlier in the thread - http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/S60/D5-SPORT/713257536115900/advert?channel=CARS

Worth a look since you aren't scared off by the road tax. Mid range torque from the 5 cylinder engine should put a smile on your face, and probably the comfiest seats for doing mileage in. Interior is a bit old skool though

Atomic Pineapple

R.O.R wrote: »

I remember talking to my Saab dealer about the 180bhp models when they put that engine in to the mainstream versions. He said it was more or less pointless as it just couldn't get the power down properly, and you'd be better off with the 150/160 version.

That was said to me about the ST too but it puts it down fine without even an LSD. Even when remapped it handled the power fine. Maybe it just requires an adjustment in driving style?

R.O.R wrote: »

I've done my daily round trip in a few 1.9Tid 9-3's and was pretty impressed. Comfy seats, plenty of go from the 150 for overtaking and when you get bored, you can play with the night button and the fantastic cup holder. They do get a bit "loose" feeling when the mileage goes up on them though.

Night button?

R.O.R wrote: »

S60 was mentioned earlier in the thread - http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/S60/D5-SPORT/713257536115900/advert?channel=CARS

Worth a look since you aren't scared off by the road tax. Mid range torque from the 5 cylinder engine should put a smile on your face, and probably the comfiest seats for doing mileage in. Interior is a bit old skool though

Exterior looks too old school to me too I'm afraid, don't 'like the styling of them at all.

Leonard Hofstadter

draffodx wrote: »

Night button?

You can turn off all lights on the instrument binnacle bar the speedo and fuel gauge (I think) to reduce distractions and glare. It's to do with Saab's aircraft heritage.

Another useless factoid that's contained in my brain!

Atomic Pineapple

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I always wondered why there weren't more Saab 9-3's and Alfa 159's on the road, until I test-drove both of them. Now I only wonder why there aren't more Alfa 159's on the road.

Specifically why is that? Dull boring drive of the Saab or other reasons?

EPM

I tested a low mileage Saab last year and was very disappointed with the interior finish. This car rattled quite badly and only had 50k kms on it too. Was very suprised by it as otherwise it was a nice car.

Leonard Hofstadter

Both the 9-3 and 159 are based on the Vectra C, a car hardly renowned for its driving dynamics (just look at the time TG tested the Vectra OPC and the torque steer it produced) or just being good in general.

Never driven any of them, but I can't see how a 9-3 or 159 would be all that different/better than a Vectra to be honest.

Gary ITR

Would you not consider a cheap diesel and a weekend toy?

Matt Simis

captainspeed wrote: »

Both the 9-3 and 159 are based on the Vectra C, a car hardly renowned for its driving dynamics (just look at the time TG tested the Vectra OPC and the torque steer it produced) or just being good in general.

Never driven any of them, but I can't see how a 9-3 or 159 would be all that different/better than a Vectra to be honest.

Hmm.. thats like totally wrong!? Both are based on GM Platforms, but not the same one at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM/Fiat_Premium_platform
Vehicles based on the GM/Fiat Premium platform
Alfa Romeo Brera
Alfa Romeo Spider
Alfa Romeo 159
Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon
Alfa Romeo Visconti (concept car)
Opel Insignia concept


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform
Vehicles based on the Epsilon I platform:
Regular
2002 Opel Vectra
2003 Saab 9-3
2004 Chevrolet Malibu
2006 Cadillac BLS
Extended
2003 Opel Signum
2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx
2005 Pontiac G6
2005 Fiat Croma
2007 Saturn Aura
2008 Chevrolet Malibu

Atomic Pineapple

Gary ITR wrote: »

Would you not consider a cheap diesel and a weekend toy?

I have considered that but don't have enough cash to do that at the minute, coupled with the likelihood of having to trade in ST in means its not really that great an idea unless either I get a wadful of cash out of the blue or a dealer has both a cheap diesel and weekend toy I want.

Atomic Pineapple

Bumping this, is the M pack worth the extra cost when looking at 320 D's? Also is there any difference between the coupe and saloon other than shape?