Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign

Yonge Street

Often on Saturdays in Dublin, you will see a small motley collection of characters gathered around the Spire with banners, roaring at passers-by through megaphones. Most people ignore them, but I decided to find out more these dedicated career protesters. I'm referring to the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (IPSC).

Apparently it's Israeli Apartheid Week next week (20 - 27 February). Call me cynical, but it seems this organization is more focused on their hatred of Israel than actually improving the daily lives of Palestinians. Let's not forget, these are the same people that dressed up as IDF soldiers on Grafton St, portraying them as Nazis in front of hundreds of tourists. (news article A bit rich given Ireland's own shameful terrorist past. Wouldn't a charity collection benefit the citizens of Gaza more?

In an effort to learn more about the IPSC, I sent cordial, polite emails to every single local branch across the country, (Contact details) questioning how their crude stage performances on Dublin's streets helps the Palestinians? I also asked what they are doing, if anything, to aid the innocent civilians in Syria being slaughtered by their own government. After a week, I only got one reply from the past leader of the Waterford branch, from a guy called Dave, explaining that he wasn't the leader anymore and that the email addresses needed to be updated! Nothing from the other 11 branches, not even a condemnation of the attacks. I suppose it doesn't count if it's Arabs killing Arabs.

Their boycotts are a bit pointless since every time they buy a Starbucks coffee or use their laptop containing an Intel Pentium processor, they are using Israeli products. We certainly don't need hypocrites like the IPSC dragging our country's reputation down further at a time when we are desperately trying to attract foreign investment. (Ireland most hostile country in Europe - remember?)

Is anyone here a member? Since they didn't reply to my emails, maybe you can answer my questions: Where do they get funding from, how large is their membership, why did you join and what kind of activities does the organization engage in. Also would you say an anti-American / anti-Western ideologue dominates within the IPSC? Finally (and this is the hardest one to get my head around) why the obsession with a country 4000km away with no historical or cultural links to Ireland? Why not the same obsession with China/Tibet?

Let's try to keep this thread about the IPSC rather than the overall Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

guitarzero

All I read was

"Loike WTF loike, stupid -enter activist group here-, IRA terrorist scum, hypocrites, foreign investment > human lives, what will they think us!?!" and suddenly morphing into some CIA agent towards the end.

I can see this thread being / before I finish this sentence.

johnnyskeleton

You could make some inquiries to see if they are a registered charity or a limited company etc

not sure why the good people of boards.ie have to do your investigating for you.

Also, if you are angling to see if there is an ulterior motive to them ie other than support for the people of Palestine, maybe te conspiracy theories forum will produce better results?

wes

Can't say I have ever seen them roaring at people on Grafton street, and they seem to be rather polite.

Also, why would a Palestinian solidarity organisation be going on about Tibet? Also, there are plenty of Tibetan solidarity organisations, and surely there is nothing to prevent people from being a part of more than one organisation. Also, would you ask a Tibetan solidarity group to condemn the slaughter in Syria? It wouldn't make sense then either.

As for Ireland being called hostile by Israel, I wouldn't worry too much about that. If you offer anything less than complete support to Israel, you will be called an Anti-semite, and every name under the sun, and considering we are talking about a country that has Israeli only roads in the West Bank, I think the accusations of racism are a bit much coming from Israel.

**EDIT**
Also, Intel is an American multi national, so Intel chips are not Israeli, some of them are even made here in Ireland, and in other parts of the world. If we are to follow your logic, then Israel (seeing as they find us so hostile) should not use Intel chips as some are made in Ireland. Sure, let extend that logic to all supporters of Israel as well, if Ireland is so hostile, stop using Intel. Of course that make no sense.
**EDIT**

czx

wes wrote: »

Can't say I have ever seen them roaring at people on Grafton street, and they seem to be rather polite.

Also, why would a Palestinian solidarity organisation be going on about Tibet? Also, there are plenty of Tibetan solidarity organisations, and surely there is nothing to prevent people from being a part of more than one organisation. Also, would you ask a Tibetan solidarity group to condemn the slaughter in Syria? It wouldn't make sense then either.

As for Ireland being called hostile by Israel, I wouldn't worry too much about that. If you offer anything less than complete support to Israel, you will be called an Anti-semite, and every name under the sun, and considering we are talking about a country that has Israeli only roads in the West Bank, I think the accusations of racism are a bit much coming from Israel.

**EDIT**
Also, Intel is an American multi national, so Intel chips are not Israeli, some of them are even made here in Ireland, and in other parts of the world. If we are to follow your logic, then Israel (seeing as they find us so hostile) should not use Intel chips as some are made in Ireland. Sure, let extend that logic to all supporters of Israel as well, if Ireland is so hostile, stop using Intel. Of course that make no sense.
**EDIT**

They just seem to have a rather narrow focus is all

wes

czx wrote: »

They just seem to have a rather narrow focus is all

So? Tibetan solidarity groups have a narrow focus, as they are set up for a specific cause. There are also similar Israeli solidarity organisations all over the world, one of the more famous being AIPAC in the US, and the various "Friends of Israel" groups. Palestinian solidarity groups aren't unique at all.

AlekSmart

Yonge Street wrote: »

I'm referring to the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (IPSC).

In an effort to learn more about the IPSC, I sent cordial, polite emails to every single local branch across the country, (Contact details) questioning how their crude stage performances on Dublin's streets helps the Palestinians? I also asked what they are doing, if anything, to aid the innocent civilians in Syria being slaughtered by their own government. After a week, I only got one reply from the past leader of the Waterford branch, from a guy called Dave, explaining that he wasn't the leader anymore and that the email addresses needed to be updated! Nothing from the other 11 branches, not even a condemnation of the attacks. I suppose it doesn't count if it's Arabs killing Arabs.

(Ireland most hostile country in Europe - remember?)

Is anyone here a member? Since they didn't reply to my emails, maybe you can answer my questions: Where do they get funding from, how large is their membership, why did you join and what kind of activities does the organization engage in. Also would you say an anti-American / anti-Western ideologue dominates within the IPSC? Finally (and this is the hardest one to get my head around) why the obsession with a country 4000km away with no historical or cultural links to Ireland? Why not the same obsession with China/Tibet?

Let's try to keep this thread about the IPSC rather than the overall Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Perhaps it's the OP's LondonDERRY address that has stimulated less than positive responses such as......

johnnyskeleton: Not sure why the good people of boards.ie have to do your investigating for you.

Also, if you are angling to see if there is an ulterior motive to them ie other than support for the people of Palestine, maybe the conspiracy theories forum will produce better results?

I think Yonge Street (TTC?) has sufficiently outlined their unsuccessful efforts to get an IPSC response from the Horses Mouth so to speak...as I read it he/she is merely asking if any IPSC members posting on boards is prepared to respond ?

It is quite similar to the thrust of the threads relating to the Occupy "movements" whereby those interested in debating the merits/demerits have difficulty doing so on the relevant "movements" on line presences.....Is there a harmful attribute to Yonge Street posting a request in this form ?

gurramok

Yonge Street wrote:

A bit rich given Ireland's own shameful terrorist past[

People won't help you if you post rubbish like the above.

irishh_bob

Yonge Street wrote: »

Often on Saturdays in Dublin, you will see a small motley collection of characters gathered around the Spire with banners, roaring at passers-by through megaphones. Most people ignore them, but I decided to find out more these dedicated career protesters. I'm referring to the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (IPSC).

Apparently it's Israeli Apartheid Week next week (20 - 27 February). Call me cynical, but it seems this organization is more focused on their hatred of Israel than actually improving the daily lives of Palestinians. Let's not forget, these are the same people that dressed up as IDF soldiers on Grafton St, portraying them as Nazis in front of hundreds of tourists. (news article A bit rich given Ireland's own shameful terrorist past. Wouldn't a charity collection benefit the citizens of Gaza more?

In an effort to learn more about the IPSC, I sent cordial, polite emails to every single local branch across the country, (Contact details) questioning how their crude stage performances on Dublin's streets helps the Palestinians? I also asked what they are doing, if anything, to aid the innocent civilians in Syria being slaughtered by their own government. After a week, I only got one reply from the past leader of the Waterford branch, from a guy called Dave, explaining that he wasn't the leader anymore and that the email addresses needed to be updated! Nothing from the other 11 branches, not even a condemnation of the attacks. I suppose it doesn't count if it's Arabs killing Arabs.

Their boycotts are a bit pointless since every time they buy a Starbucks coffee or use their laptop containing an Intel Pentium processor, they are using Israeli products. We certainly don't need hypocrites like the IPSC dragging our country's reputation down further at a time when we are desperately trying to attract foreign investment. (Ireland most hostile country in Europe - remember?)

Is anyone here a member? Since they didn't reply to my emails, maybe you can answer my questions: Where do they get funding from, how large is their membership, why did you join and what kind of activities does the organization engage in. Also would you say an anti-American / anti-Western ideologue dominates within the IPSC? Finally (and this is the hardest one to get my head around) why the obsession with a country 4000km away with no historical or cultural links to Ireland? Why not the same obsession with China/Tibet?

Let's try to keep this thread about the IPSC rather than the overall Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

just because the syrian state is slaughtering thier own people , doesnt mean israel should be given a pass for making the pallestinians ( several million of them ) virtual prisoners , i imagine theese protestors are your typical socilist types but that doesnt mean thier wrong on the israeli - pallestine issue , im also getting tired of this label of anti american being hung on people as a way of shutting down debate , the term anti american has aquired the same value in some circles as anti catholic , anti semetic or homophobic , i.e , its a catch all term for wrong , america is not sacred , im not saying thier is much merit in the description but so what if some people are anti american

Yonge Street

AlekSmart wrote: »

I think Yonge Street (TTC?) has sufficiently outlined their unsuccessful efforts to get an IPSC response from the Horses Mouth so to speak...as I read it he/she is merely asking if any IPSC members posting on boards is prepared to respond ?

Haha you are correct, my name derives from the TTC stop of the same name in my native Toronto. You are quite sharp! I've removed my location from my details if it's going to be used as a stick by Republicans to beat me with. Anyway, you are also correct that I only came here looking for answers because the IPSC doesn't respond to enquiries. It's not far-fetched to presume that a politics forum will contain political activists.

Regarding the IPSC not being concerned about more severe atrocities being carried out across the world: well, it just strikes me as odd that a genuine humanitarian can turn a blind eye to innocents being murdered simply because the crime isn't carried out in the tiny sliver of land that they chose to focus on. Besides, it's untrue. The IPSC ran a huge campaign in the past against the Iraq war, claiming war for oil and all the usual. Iraq has nothing to do with Palestine, so why the sudden interest? The only common denominator appears to be an anti-American bias.

And Irishh_bob I'm not trying to shut down the debate by using that term. On the contrary, I'm trying to open up the topic. Maybe you can explain why the IPSC chooses to get involved in Iraq but not Syria (which actually shares a border with Israel). In my view, they should operate a charity in the same vein as Trocaire to collect money and supplies for Gaza/the West Bank and throw away the megaphones and banners. They are their own worst enemy.

wes

Yonge Street wrote: »

The IPSC ran a huge campaign in the past against the Iraq war, claiming war for oil and all the usual.

I am pretty sure that was the Irish Anti war movement actually, who I think have links with the IPSC.

czx

wes wrote: »

I am pretty sure that was the Irish Anti war movement actually, who I think have links with the IPSC.

Of course they do! Why not throw in the red-flag-with-clenched-fist brigade while you're at it!

wes

czx wrote: »

Of course they do! Why not throw in the red-flag-with-clenched-fist brigade while you're at it!

People being members of multiple organisations is nothing new. I am sure there are also people who are members of just one organisation and so on.

Yonge Street

@Wes: are you a member of the IPSC? I can PM you questions if you feel uncomfortable answering them here

wes

Yonge Street wrote: »

@Wes: are you a member of the IPSC? I can PM you questions if you feel uncomfortable answering them here

I am not a member.

Border-Rat

Yonge Street wrote: »

Often on Saturdays in Dublin, you will see a small motley collection of characters gathered around the Spire with banners, roaring at passers-by through megaphones. Most people ignore them, but I decided to find out more these dedicated career protesters. I'm referring to the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (IPSC).

Apparently it's Israeli Apartheid Week next week (20 - 27 February). Call me cynical, but it seems this organization is more focused on their hatred of Israel than actually improving the daily lives of Palestinians. Let's not forget, these are the same people that dressed up as IDF soldiers on Grafton St, portraying them as Nazis in front of hundreds of tourists. (news article A bit rich given Ireland's own shameful terrorist past. Wouldn't a charity collection benefit the citizens of Gaza more?

In an effort to learn more about the IPSC, I sent cordial, polite emails to every single local branch across the country, (Contact details) questioning how their crude stage performances on Dublin's streets helps the Palestinians? I also asked what they are doing, if anything, to aid the innocent civilians in Syria being slaughtered by their own government. After a week, I only got one reply from the past leader of the Waterford branch, from a guy called Dave, explaining that he wasn't the leader anymore and that the email addresses needed to be updated! Nothing from the other 11 branches, not even a condemnation of the attacks. I suppose it doesn't count if it's Arabs killing Arabs.

Their boycotts are a bit pointless since every time they buy a Starbucks coffee or use their laptop containing an Intel Pentium processor, they are using Israeli products. We certainly don't need hypocrites like the IPSC dragging our country's reputation down further at a time when we are desperately trying to attract foreign investment. (Ireland most hostile country in Europe - remember?)

Is anyone here a member? Since they didn't reply to my emails, maybe you can answer my questions: Where do they get funding from, how large is their membership, why did you join and what kind of activities does the organization engage in. Also would you say an anti-American / anti-Western ideologue dominates within the IPSC? Finally (and this is the hardest one to get my head around) why the obsession with a country 4000km away with no historical or cultural links to Ireland? Why not the same obsession with China/Tibet?

Let's try to keep this thread about the IPSC rather than the overall Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Laughable as you already in the original post are talking about 'Irelands shameful terrorist past'.

Israelis hate Europeans.

Brian?

I don't see what the OP is getting at here at all. The IPSC is an Irish group to support the Palastinian cause. Any time I've come in contact with them they seem pleasant enough people.

Their aims and activities are all fairly straight forward, all you have to do is look at their website:

http://www.ipsc.ie/

OP, are you trying to figure out if they are raising money to buy arms for Hamas or something? Hamas hardly needs the few bob that they could raise when they have Iran etc. to fork out for whatever they need.

Brian?

Yonge Street wrote: »

Their boycotts are a bit pointless since every time they buy a Starbucks coffee or use their laptop containing an Intel Pentium processor, they are using Israeli products. We certainly don't need hypocrites like the IPSC dragging our country's reputation down further at a time when we are desperately trying to attract foreign investment. (Ireland most hostile country in Europe - remember?)

.

This bit is actually pure nonsense. Intel have 1 factory in Israel, the exact same number they have in Ireland.

The reason Israel calls Ireland hostile is that the Irish government had the temerity to complain when Mossad used fake Irish passports to commit murder in Dubai. It's nothing to do with the IPSC.

I have no idea why you call them hypocrites either.

Stereomaniac

We're living in an age where it's very difficult to keep your nose clean, and be politically, ethically and environmentally correct. I don't think I am a hypocrite if I buy coffee from Starbuck's, if it is all that I can afford. However, I can still oppose what they stand for. But people have no choice in a lot of cases. Maybe Starbuck's is a bad example, but Nike say.

Pride Fighter

The IPSC is a diverse group. There is people in it from a variety of far left political groupings and one would think that it is one of those Joe Higgins crowd rent a mob.

Nothing could be further from the truth. There is members of it from every political party in Ireland and people from every religious background and none. It gets tarred as a far left group by people who dont have a clue what they are talking about. It is a very solid organisation, fighting for the human rights and recognition of the Palestinian people.

There is branches of it up and down the country. Go to one of the branch meetings and see for yourself.

Border-Rat

Palestinian support is not limited to the centre-left. In fact, the only people who don't support them are the centre-right. Even then thats confined to Australia, UK, USA. E.g. 'Conservatives' from the anglosphere. The rest of the world supports them.

Pride Fighter

Border-Rat wrote: »

Palestinian support is not limited to the centre-left. In fact, the only people who don't support them are the centre-right. Even then thats confined to Australia, UK, USA. E.g. 'Conservatives' from the anglosphere. The rest of the world supports them.

Too true, Centre-Right politician Chris Andrews of Fianna Fail is a member of the IPSC and was denied entry on the Freedom Flotilla 1 which as we all know saw the murder of 9 activists. He went on the most recent flotilla too and was part of the group arrested illegally in international waters and detained illegally for several days by the Israeli authorities.

Yonge Street

The Intel microprocessor was invented in Israel. Source
Windows XP and Windows Vista were developed by Microsoft Israel.
The IDF invented firewall and anti-virus sofware to defend against cyber terrorism.
Google uses an Israeli-made search algorithm.

You are contributing money to the Israeli state with products you buy every day. That's why I call the advocates of such boycotts hypocrites. Now, I've answered your question. Would you be so kind as to answer mine.

wes

Yonge Street wrote: »

The Intel microprocessor was invented in Israel. Source

Your own link says it was the centrino processor, which is just one of Intel many processors and it has been replaced by mobile version of the i3, i5 and i7 last I checked. You will notice that as a multi national, Intel has product developed all over the world and not just in one place. So what your saying is untrue, on the basis of whats in your own link ffs.

Yonge Street wrote: »

Windows XP and Windows Vista were developed by Microsoft Israel.

Have a link to back that up? I am pretty sure what your saying is untrue, and it was mostly developed in Redmond MS head quarters, with some work down by various other office around the world, you know like most multi-nationals.

Yonge Street wrote: »

The IDF invented firewall and anti-virus sofware to defend against cyber terrorism.

Plenty of companies have made firewalls and anti-virus software. It hardly just Israel :rolleyes:.

Yonge Street wrote: »

Google uses an Israeli-made search algorithm.

No its an internal proprietary one actually, and it was created while the founders were at Standford University (located in the US, and they still licence it from Stanford, as it was a project they did while studying there):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google
Google began in January 1996 as a research project by Larry Page and Sergey Brin when they were both PhD students at Stanford University in California.[24]

Yonge Street wrote: »

You are contributing money to the Israeli state with products you buy every day.

No, we are contributed to multi-nationals that operate all over the world. These claims of Israel inventing anything and everything are made all the time, and at best there only partially true, but a lot of the times they are lies.

Yonge Street wrote: »

That's why I call the advocates of such boycotts hypocrites.

Considering you seem to have made up a lot of the above, and even your own link doesn't say what you claim, I think your in no position to call anyone a hypocrite, especially in this day and age of multi-nationals, where they operate the world over.

RichieC

I'm sure the anti apartheid groups back in the day had to contend with being called "anti white" and other half thought out criticisms by proponents on the status quo.

opinionated3

Have seen them in limerick too sometimes. Always tended to view them as rather pathetic. Have more important things to be worried about than their cause. Always wondered how they found the time to organise everything....are they employed or are they 'professional' protesters that just jump from cause to cause? They don't seem to put forward their point very well....just shout anti Israeli, anti American rhetoric as far as I can tell. But I suppose as long as they don't bother me personally I don't really care

hatrickpatrick

Yonge Street wrote: »

The Intel microprocessor was invented in Israel. Source
Windows XP and Windows Vista were developed by Microsoft Israel.
The IDF invented firewall and anti-virus sofware to defend against cyber terrorism.
Google uses an Israeli-made search algorithm.

You are contributing money to the Israeli state with products you buy every day. That's why I call the advocates of such boycotts hypocrites. Now, I've answered your question. Would you be so kind as to answer mine.

The only one which is an issue here is the IDF, and which software specifically did they invent? If I'm using it, I'll stop immediately.
The Israeli state and people =/= the Israeli government and military.
I have nothing against ordinary people living within the state of Israel as defined in 1948.
I have an issue with the regime, the IDF, and the people who live in the illegal settlements build on land stolen from innocent people at gunpoint from 1967 onwards. Boycotting everything Israeli made is far too indiscriminate for my liking.

BTW, the Israelis are effectively collectively punishing the Palestinians with their Gaza blockade - so before anyone claims the pro Palestinains are worse, does this post perhaps alter your view? As much as I loathe the Israeli regime with a firey passion, I do not believe in punishing the ordinary people of Israel unless there is absolutely no other choice.
The same cannot be said for the IDF apologists.

Yonge Street

@ hatrick patrick: We're veering slightly off topic here. I don't want this to derail into another tit for tat Israel vs Palestine thread complete with historical nit picking.

Back to the IPSC: Do you not agree that a charity collection (like Trocaire and Concern do for Africa) would benefit the daily lives of Palestinians more than the IPSC's current strategy of waving flags and banners? Seriously, what do they hope to achieve by shouting at teenagers out shopping on a Saturday afternoon? What is their objective when they wake up in the morning for another day of waving a flag. I don't see the sense in it. How does it help?

RichieC

Yonge Street wrote: »

@ hatrick patrick: We're veering slightly off topic here. I don't want this to derail into another tit for tat Israel vs Palestine thread complete with historical nit picking.

Back to the IPSC: Do you not agree that a charity collection (like Trocaire and Concern do for Africa) would benefit the daily lives of Palestinians more than the IPSC's current strategy of waving flags and banners? Seriously, what do they hope to achieve by shouting at teenagers out shopping on a Saturday afternoon? What is their objective when they wake up in the morning for another day of waving a flag. I don't see the sense in it. How does it help?

Awareness campaign. the mainstream media is failing miserably at keeping folks informed of the goings on in the occupied territory's.

It's clear you have a problem with people who aren't biased towards Israel like yourself. I don't know why you bother with all this song and dance.

Yonge Street

RichieC wrote: »

Awareness campaign. the mainstream media is failing miserably at keeping folks informed of the goings on in the occupied territory's.

It's clear you have a problem with people who aren't biased towards Israel like yourself. I don't know why you bother with all this song and dance.

Awareness campaign? That's a bit silly and unnecessary, especially in this day and age when most people are connected to the internet and have instant access to BBC news, Al Jazeera, RTE news and countless other news websites. Not to mention the articles reported in daily newspapers. Many news outlets have dedicated reporters in the Middle East to cover current affairs in that part of the world. So your theory holds no water.

Why do you refuse to answer my question: Do you not think that a charity collection would benefit Palestinians more than waving a banner at uninterested Irish people trying to go about their business?

RichieC

It hasn't done the starving Africans much good.

wes

Yonge Street wrote: »

Back to the IPSC: Do you not agree that a charity collection (like Trocaire and Concern do for Africa) would benefit the daily lives of Palestinians more than the IPSC's current strategy of waving flags and banners?

They also promote Palestinian goods, which is a lot better than charity imo:

Promoting Palestinian Goods

Also, the biggest problem for Palestinains is the occupation, which is the source of there problems. So lobbying against it, is the most beneficial thing that can be done for Palestinians, as it will enable them to provide for themselves, and not depend on charity.

Brian?

Yonge Street wrote: »

The Intel microprocessor was invented in Israel. Source

Wrong. The first Intel processor was the Intel 4004 which was invented in Santa Clara California. I am pretty sure I know the history and inner workings of Intel better than you, so I'd give up now.

Windows XP and Windows Vista were developed by Microsoft Israel.

Partially right. XP and Vista were devloped at multiple locations all over the world. Including Ireland.

The IDF invented firewall and anti-virus sofware to defend against cyber terrorism.
Google uses an Israeli-made search algorithm.

You could be right, but I doubt it given your track record with facts so far though I doubt you are.

You are contributing money to the Israeli state with products you buy every day. That's why I call the advocates of such boycotts hypocrites.

Fair enough, I see your point. I also see their's though.

Now, I've answered your question. Would you be so kind as to answer mine.

Is that directed at me? I have nothing to do with the IPSC, although I do support any organisation that campaigns for human rights.

Yonge Street

RichieC wrote: »

It hasn't done the starving Africans much good.

Ok, so you're against foreign aid. Still doesn't explain the logic behind how waving a flag in Dublin helps people living 4000km away in Gaza. Sounds like you haven't thought this through.

Would I be correct in assuming you're a member of the IPSC? If not, why aren't you a member? Perhaps you question the merit of standing in the middle of a street while yelling slogans and holding a placard. If so, then we're not so different after all.

Brian?

Yonge Street wrote: »

Awareness campaign? That's a bit silly and unnecessary, especially in this day and age when most people are connected to the internet and have instant access to BBC news, Al Jazeera, RTE news and countless other news websites. Not to mention the articles reported in daily newspapers. Many news outlets have dedicated reporters in the Middle East to cover current affairs in that part of the world. So your theory holds no water.

Why do you refuse to answer my question: Do you not think that a charity collection would benefit Palestinians more than waving a banner at uninterested Irish people trying to go about their business?

No. You think the Palestinian people would be better off with a meager bit of charity than basic human rights? Even though the IPSC is actually collecting money for them as well?

Brian?

Yonge Street wrote: »

Ok, so you're against foreign aid. Still doesn't explain the logic behind how waving a flag in Dublin helps people living 4000km away in Gaza. Sounds like you haven't thought this through.

Would I be correct in assuming you're a member of the IPSC? If not, why aren't you a member? Perhaps you question the merit of standing in the middle of a street while yelling slogans and holding a placard. If so, then we're not so different after all.

I believe that's called "burning a strawman" .

The Israeli

wes wrote: »

Also, the biggest problem for Palestinians is the occupation, which is the source of there problems.

There isn't any occupation in Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt (The violence is still there) , Lebanon (Hezballah that has almost gained control over the country not so legally), Iran, and still there are problems.

BEFORE 48 there were Arabic attacks on Jews (and Jews had fought them back) which tried to drive the Jews out of their LEGAL lands.
If to listen to Hamas and Hezbollah their mission is to take control over all of Israel, and Iran supports this aim too.
Some assume that once Israeli has retreated from the west Bank they will change their rhetoric. A bold assumption.

The Israeli retreat from the west bank is a part of the SOLUTION but it's not the cause of all the problem, which in reality is the ancient hatred against Jews, especially against those who have established a country here.

Just regarding the Occupation again: There is no occupation in the west bank, since there hasn't been any legal owner of the lands since 48 (I mean to any of the countries).
Even thought, Israel should let the Palestinians establish their country on these lands in the future.

Eliot Rosewater

I think the OP's criticisms are pretty inarticulate and random. In fairness, one anecdotal story of a protest does not undermine the whole movement.

I think the greater criticism that can be leveled at groups like this is how inherently one-sided they are. Now, while being a member of a Palestinian group or an Israeli group does not imply you think that that side is always right, it does imply that you consider one group of people worth defending and another not worth defending. I don't think this is compatible with any fair reading of the situation where both "sides" are regularly in the wrong.

If I had to impose a dichotomy on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict it would be this: the militant wing of the Israeli government and supporters united with Palestinian terrorist groups and supporters versus individual people in the Middle-East who just want to live normal lives. I think this notion of people is regularly lost in this conflict in the bid to categorize into Jew, Arab etc. This then leads to the formation of groups like the IPSC and the Israel-Ireland group - groups that to me aren't primarily interested in universal human dignity and rights but rather just the interests of one of the imposed categories.

How can such groups be said to be operating fairly?

Nodin

The Israeli wrote: »

..........
Just regarding the Occupation again: There is no occupation in the west bank, since there hasn't been any legal owner of the lands since 48 (I mean to any of the countries).
Even thought, Israel should let the Palestinians establish their country on these lands in the future.

Not this silliness again. Seriously, that doesn't fly. The only reason Israel isn't under sanctions for what its been doing is the US veto.

Brian?

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

If I had to impose a dichotomy on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict it would be this: the militant wing of the Israeli government and supporters united with Palestinian terrorist groups and supporters versus individual people in the Middle-East who just want to live normal lives. I think this notion of people is regularly lost in this conflict in the bid to categorize into Jew, Arab etc. This then leads to the formation of groups like the IPSC and the Israel-Ireland group - groups that to me aren't primarily interested in universal human dignity and rights but rather just the interests of one of the imposed categories.

How can such groups be said to be operating fairly?

I think that's unfair on the IPSC. Their stated goal is to help the Palestinian people lead a normal life. They are not supporting Hamas in an armed campaign againest Israel as far as I can see, nor do they want to bring down the state of Israel. They want Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories, lift the blockade on Gaza and allow the Palestinian people to govern themselves as they see fit. These are all fairly moderate aims, in fact I'd say a fairly hefty section of the Israeli population might agree with those aims.

Yonge Street

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

This then leads to the formation of groups like the IPSC and the Israel-Ireland group - groups that to me aren't primarily interested in universal human dignity and rights but rather just the interests of one of the imposed categories.

Completely agree with this and it echoes my point earlier that a true humanitarian would not only be concerned with the plight of the Palestinians, but also the situation in Syria. Yet the IPSC are completely silent on the issue. Guess it doesn't sit well with their worldview.

Nodin

Yonge Street wrote: »

Completely agree with this and it echoes my point earlier that a true humanitarian would not only be concerned with the plight of the Palestinians, but also the situation in Syria. Yet the IPSC are completely silent on the issue. Guess it doesn't sit well with their worldview.

So you would then contend that the charity "Fighting Blindness" are not true humanitarians as they don't concern themselves (by your logic) with the deaf, mentall impaired etc?

Brian?

Yonge Street wrote: »

Completely agree with this and it echoes my point earlier that a true humanitarian would not only be concerned with the plight of the Palestinians, but also the situation in Syria. Yet the IPSC are completely silent on the issue. Guess it doesn't sit well with their worldview.

You've clearly stated from the oustset that you don't know what the IPSC worldview is so that's a huge assumption to make.

Would you care to respond to my earlier posts?

southsiderosie

First, let me remind everyone that the topic of this thread is the IPSC and their campaign in Ireland.

Second, as with threads about the public sector, posters are not to badger other posters about their organizational affiliation. If someone wants to say that they are a member of or support this organization then fine, but they should not be badgered to do so.

If you have concerns about a post, REPORT IT, rather than bitching about it on thread.

If you have any questions PM me.

Consider yourselves duly warned.'

SSR

Brown Bomber

Yonge Street wrote: »

Do you not think that a charity collection would benefit Palestinians more than waving a banner at uninterested Irish people trying to go about their business?

No. What you need to understand is that lack of aid is not the problem but the illegal Israeli blockade which decides which aid can and can't get through.

A blockade that intentionally near-starves entire populations.

the documents show that Israel employed mathematical formulas to calculate the basic consumption needs of residents in Gaza and approved "a policy of deliberate reduction" for basic goods in the Gaza Strip.
http://www.gisha.org/graph.asp?lang_id=en&p_id=901

Surely you can't have a problem with people who donate time and energy to objecting to and raising awareness of this Nazi-like barbaric cruelty?

irishh_bob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Too true, Centre-Right politician Chris Andrews of Fianna Fail is a member of the IPSC and was denied entry on the Freedom Flotilla 1 which as we all know saw the murder of 9 activists. He went on the most recent flotilla too and was part of the group arrested illegally in international waters and detained illegally for several days by the Israeli authorities.

what makes you refer to chris andrews as centre right ?

Yonge Street

I don't have a problem with the IPSC's aims. I am in favour of a self-governing Palestinian authority in the West Bank and Gaza. I'm questioning their means to achieve these ends. As I stated earlier, I don't understand how waving flags on Dublin's O'Connell St directly or indirectly helps achieve a sovereign Palestinian nation. One explanation claimed it helped "raise awareness", which I said didn't hold water. Most people on the planet are well aware of what's going on in the Middle East.

This leads to my suspicions that they merely exist to spread anti-Israeli and anti-American propaganda. You can't deny that such propaganda exists. Allow me to draw your attention to this photo.



This photo was staged for the purpose of spreading lies about the IDF. These are not IDF uniforms, not IDF gloves, and the AK47 is not the IDF’s standard weapon (I am not even sure that this is a real gun). More info here http://972mag.com/whats-wrong-with-this-pic-that-its-fake/34420/

The IPSC regularly have stands and hand out flyers displaying this rubbish. Hence, I believe they have ulterior motives.

Nodin

Yonge Street wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the IPSC's aims. I am in favour of a self-governing ...........

You might get back to me regarding this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77129787&postcount=42

Brown Bomber

Yonge Street wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the IPSC's aims. I am in favour of a self-governing Palestinian authority in the West Bank and Gaza. I'm questioning their means to achieve these ends. As I stated earlier, I don't understand how waving flags on Dublin's O'Connell St directly or indirectly helps achieve a sovereign Palestinian nation. One explanation claimed it helped "raise awareness", which I said didn't hold water. Most people on the planet are well aware of what's going on in the Middle East.

This leads to my suspicions that they merely exist to spread anti-Israeli and anti-American propaganda. You can't deny that such propaganda exists. Allow me to draw your attention to this photo.



This photo was staged for the purpose of spreading lies about the IDF. These are not IDF uniforms, not IDF gloves, and the AK47 is not the IDF’s standard weapon (I am not even sure that this is a real gun). More info here http://972mag.com/whats-wrong-with-this-pic-that-its-fake/34420/

The IPSC regularly have stands and hand out flyers displaying this rubbish. Hence, I believe they have ulterior motives.

What about this one? Or the countless others of dead and decapitated children?

Yonge Street

Nodin wrote: »

So you would then contend that the charity "Fighting Blindness" are not true humanitarians as they don't concern themselves (by your logic) with the deaf, mentall impaired etc?

Bad analogy because blindness and deafness are not limited to separate nationalities/ethnicities. A more appropriate analogy would be Fighting Blindness choosing to help Chinese people but not Mongolians. The IPSC see the Jews as the bad guys in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, whereas in Syria it's Arabs vs Arabs, so they are unsure whether to support Assad's tyrannous regime or the Syrian people of Homs. Nice attempt at trying to put word into my mouth though. I'll give you a 6/10 for effort.

Care to address my post about anti-Israeli propaganda being spread by pro-Palestinian groups? Some people would say the most recent Gaza flotilla was merely designed to be a provocation to the Israeli authorities and wasn't carrying aid at all.



Seriously, let's not be delusional. It seems certain sections of the IPSC are calling for the destruction of Israel. I don't want this kind of Anti-semitism (cos that's what it is) spreading in our little country. Thankfully it's not present in the mainstream but only in fringe extremist groups like the IPSC.

RichieC

The Israeli wrote: »

There isn't any occupation in Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt (The violence is still there) , Lebanon (Hezballah that has almost gained control over the country not so legally), Iran, and still there are problems.

BEFORE 48 there were Arabic attacks on Jews (and Jews had fought them back) which tried to drive the Jews out of their LEGAL lands.
If to listen to Hamas and Hezbollah their mission is to take control over all of Israel, and Iran supports this aim too.
Some assume that once Israeli has retreated from the west Bank they will change their rhetoric. A bold assumption.

The Israeli retreat from the west bank is a part of the SOLUTION but it's not the cause of all the problem, which in reality is the ancient hatred against Jews, especially against those who have established a country here.

Just regarding the Occupation again: There is no occupation in the west bank, since there hasn't been any legal owner of the lands since 48 (I mean to any of the countries).
Even thought, Israel should let the Palestinians establish their country on these lands in the future.

there were zionist attacks on Palestinians(as well as the british) aswell. Irgun and lehi led.

your one sided history kinda makes a liar of you.

Deir Yassin massacre anyone?