Buying a coffee machine - advice needed!

filmbuffboy

Planning on buying a coffee machine for my kitchen soon enough. I used to be a barista years ago and to be honest with the times that are in it I am sick of paying 3.20 for a mocha when Its possible for me to do the same at home. I really have no idea what to get so any advice would be appreciated.

Space is an issue so it would have to be small enough and I wouldnt be able to spend anymore than 1000 euros. I realise 1000 isnt a huge amount, you can spend 10 times that for a decent machine. Im just looking for something afordable that will make a decent enough coffee.

Eventually the thing will have paid for itself from the savings I will make from buying coffees in town everyday!

Any advice or recommendations on machines you use yourself would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Bohrio

filmbuffboy wrote: »

Planning on buying a coffee machine for my kitchen soon enough. I used to be a barista years ago and to be honest with the times that are in it I am sick of paying 3.20 for a mocha when Its possible for me to do the same at home. I really have no idea what to get so any advice would be appreciated.

Space is an issue so it would have to be small enough and I wouldnt be able to spend anymore than 1000 euros. I realise 1000 isnt a huge amount, you can spend 10 times that for a decent machine. Im just looking for something afordable that will make a decent enough coffee.

Eventually the thing will have paid for itself from the savings I will make from buying coffees in town everyday!

Any advice or recommendations on machines you use yourself would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

For 10000 euro you can probably get a nice moka... I am not sure how you are gonna manage with only 1000 Now seriously... nowadays you can get an excellent coffee machine for less than 2000 euro.

your main problem is the lack of space, ideally you will need a good grinder and a good espresso machine. Will you be able to fit them both?

If you go for grinder and coffee machine the Rancillio silvia or a similar machine will be a good option., then you could go for a small size grinder like a Vario, or something slightly bigger like the iberital MC2, or even bigger a macap mc4 or mazzer mini..

So, how much space are you talking about? you will need a grinder if you want to enjoy good coffee...

I dont particulary like machines like the Saeco with built in grinder, frother, etc... but I have never have one.

Last but not least a nespresso could be a good option, not my cup of tea though... but my parent have one (I bought it for xmas 1 year ago) and it does the trick... for a while

BengaLover

If you want to go top end I dont have any advice, but for a decent affordable machine, thats easy to use, you cant beat the Senseo - you can buy so many varieties and sizes of pods too, and you arent tied to buying them online, you can get them in Tesco.

donnacha

filmbuffboy wrote: »

Planning on buying a coffee machine for my kitchen soon enough. I used to be a barista years ago and to be honest with the times that are in it I am sick of paying 3.20 for a mocha when Its possible for me to do the same at home. I really have no idea what to get so any advice would be appreciated.

Space is an issue so it would have to be small enough and I wouldnt be able to spend anymore than 1000 euros. I realise 1000 isnt a huge amount, you can spend 10 times that for a decent machine. Im just looking for something afordable that will make a decent enough coffee.

Eventually the thing will have paid for itself from the savings I will make from buying coffees in town everyday!

Any advice or recommendations on machines you use yourself would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

You could get a rancilio silvia: http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/rancilio_silvia
http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Rancilio-Silvia-Espresso-Machine-(New-Model).html

and then buy a decent grinder with the change: http://coffeeangel.com/shop/mahlkonig-vario/

Gran Hermano

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-RI8161-Machine-Professional-Stainless/dp/B0000C72XS

http://coffeeangel.com/shop/mahlkonig-vario/

The Gaggia Classic or the Rancilio Silvia are the traditional workhorses of the single boiler espresso machines. I'd give the Silvia an edge over the Classic but it's currently pricier than the Classic -especially with Amazon's discounted price.

The Mc2 grinder will do the job but it's a tad industrial, noisy and a mare to switch between espresso and say drip grind settings.


Donnacha has beaten me to it above, see the problem of cutting/pasting links on pads

(pods and pads are fine if you're buying from Apple but not great on the coffee side)

adrian522

donnacha wrote: »

filmbuffboy wrote: »

Planning on buying a coffee machine for my kitchen soon enough. I used to be a barista years ago and to be honest with the times that are in it I am sick of paying 3.20 for a mocha when Its possible for me to do the same at home. I really have no idea what to get so any advice would be appreciated.

Space is an issue so it would have to be small enough and I wouldnt be able to spend anymore than 1000 euros. I realise 1000 isnt a huge amount, you can spend 10 times that for a decent machine. Im just looking for something afordable that will make a decent enough coffee.

Eventually the thing will have paid for itself from the savings I will make from buying coffees in town everyday!

Any advice or recommendations on machines you use yourself would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

You could get a rancilio silvia: http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/rancilio_silvia
http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Rancilio-Silvia-Espresso-Machine-(New-Model).html

and then buy a decent grinder with the change: http://coffeeangel.com/shop/mahlkonig-vario/

That's exactly my setup. New er regretted either purchase.

When it came to a choice between a Silvia and a gaggia classic and people said go with a classic but replace the steam wand with one from a Silvia I thought I'll just get the Silvia,, great machine for the price.

filmbuffboy

Thats great, thanks! Ill look into it. Il even have money left over for a grinder hopefully! Didnt think I would, was plannin on saving up for one after I bought the machine. Happy Days!

donnacha

filmbuffboy wrote: »

Thats great, thanks! Ill look into it. Il even have money left over for a grinder hopefully! Didnt think I would, was plannin on saving up for one after I bought the machine. Happy Days!

Good luck with the purchase - let us know how you get on.

To add to my other post - I just wanted to praise CoffeeAngel for the additional service they can provide on the grinder. I ended up having trouble with the hopper on my Vario after approx 16mths of use and Karl sorted me out by putting me in touch with Shane at Marco (local distributor) - Shane took the grinder in, checked it out and then replaced the hopper - all for free. Kudos to them both.

For the Silvia it may be possible to find one cheaper than the link I posted but beware of some of the online sellers as there are numerous threads here were people bought machines to find they did not work properly and the after sales service simply did not exist. If you have an online seller with a good price post back here to see if you can get feedback on them first before you purchase. I bought mine from RistrettoCoffee in Co. Down but they don't seem to have them for sale at the moment.

mandarin

Re the Silvia, its seminal reputation was built up many years ago but it has increased a lot in price in recent times, so much so that it's now roughly twice the price of the Gaggia Classic. Mark Prince of Coffeegeek, for example, has long been a fan of the Silvia but he has commented that the price increases appear unjustifiable
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/395387

Also, it has a reputation for being tempermental and not the easiest machine to work with.

The guys at Home-Barista.com tend to question Silvia's reputation, as this thread shows
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/560108 (taster: "Silvia is a single boiler dual temperature espresso machine, which means that milk drinks are problematic. It has a small boiler, no preinfusion, and limited control over brew temperature and pressure. The current list price is $800, and it retails for $630. Many Silvia fans add a PID for consistency, which pushes the price close to $1000. And therein lies the problem. If the Silvia were priced lower (say, half the current list price), I would unhesitatingly recommend it to friends looking for an entry-level espresso machine. But at current pricing? No way.")

Jim Schulman (coffeecuppers.com, Home-barista.com) says he "would always prefer a Silvia to a Gaggia Classic or any other small home machine, the others aren't even close. But it simply isn't competitive in shot clarity with inexpensive HX machines like the Expobar, Bezzera BZ, Oscar, or any of the E61 single boiler machines."

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/rancilio-silvia-with-pid-vs-competition-on-shot-quality-t8424.html


From my reading, I conclude a number of things. One, Silvia is regarded as better than the Classic, but it's not worth twice the price. Two, you can get a lot more machine for a little more money, and people with your kind of budget are opting for slightly more expensive machies than the Silvia. Three, it's best to focus on getting the very best grinder you can afford rather than the machine.

adrian522

mandarin wrote: »

Re the Silvia, its seminal reputation was built up many years ago but it has increased a lot in price in recent times, so much so that it's now roughly twice the price of the Gaggia Classic. Mark Prince of Coffeegeek, for example, has long been a fan of the Silvia but he has commented that the price increases appear unjustifiable
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/395387

Also, it has a reputation for being tempermental and not the easiest machine to work with.

The guys at Home-Barista.com tend to question Silvia's reputation, as this thread shows
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/560108 (taster: "Silvia is a single boiler dual temperature espresso machine, which means that milk drinks are problematic. It has a small boiler, no preinfusion, and limited control over brew temperature and pressure. The current list price is $800, and it retails for $630. Many Silvia fans add a PID for consistency, which pushes the price close to $1000. And therein lies the problem. If the Silvia were priced lower (say, half the current list price), I would unhesitatingly recommend it to friends looking for an entry-level espresso machine. But at current pricing? No way.")

Jim Schulman (coffeecuppers.com, Home-barista.com) says he "would always prefer a Silvia to a Gaggia Classic or any other small home machine, the others aren't even close. But it simply isn't competitive in shot clarity with inexpensive HX machines like the Expobar, Bezzera BZ, Oscar, or any of the E61 single boiler machines."

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/rancilio-silvia-with-pid-vs-competition-on-shot-quality-t8424.html


From my reading, I conclude a number of things. One, Silvia is regarded as better than the Classic, but it's not worth twice the price. Two, you can get a lot more machine for a little more money, and people with your kind of budget are opting for slightly more expensive machies than the Silvia. Three, it's best to focus on getting the very best grinder you can afford rather than the machine.

I'm not sure I agree with the bit in bold, probably twice the price for "a lot more machine"

If your budget is 1000 and you are spending circa 400 on a grinder I don't think there are many better machines than the Silvia out there.

Bohrio

adrian522 wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with the bit in bold, probably twice the price for "a lot more machine"

If your budget is 1000 and you are spending circa 400 on a grinder I don't think there are many better machines than the Silvia out there.

I think he probably wasnt including the grinder on those 1000 euro. So he probably meant that for 1000 euro you can buy a much better machine.

The Silvia is around 550-600 euro, isnt it?

I still believe that the next step will be probably a rocket or an expobar, they are around 1000 euro, but that's almost double the price.

mandarin

Re "a lot more machine for a little more money" - someone used that expression in another forum, only I can't source the quote now:(

The point a number of people made was that one should PID the Silvia, but doing so puts it into the price bracket of more sophisticated machines, eg, "Well, a PID'ed Silvia is a nice beast. BUT doesn't it then cost nearly as much (or more) as one of the lesser expensive HX machines, vide:
Expobar Pulsar here at $800
Bezzera here at $750
Silvia here is $500. Adding to this the cost of ss relay + PID controller + thermocouple @ $150 to $200 puts you nearly on par with a true HX machine."
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/214317

Again: "Bezzera BZ02S is on sale for $949 versus the Rancilio Silvia at $649. If you opt for a PID (electronic temperature controller) for the Silvia as many do, add $150 (Auber) to $290 (pidkits) and your time for doing the modification. The Bezzera can steam and brew at the same time; the Silvia cannot. According to Jim Schulman, the Bezzera is easy to use and pulls shots on par with his beloved Elektra Semiautomatica that costs almost twice as much. The Rancilio Silvia has many fans, but in my opinion, there are better options."
http://www.home-barista.com/advice/budget-of-1000-which-espresso-machine-for-husbands-birthday-t14536.html

There's also the question of entertaining:
"If you are entertaining, you need a machine suitable for catering. The Vibiemme or Bezzeras will do fine, as will any other machine with a 2 liter plus steam boiler and a heat exchanger or separate brew boiler. The Silvia can't do four to six quick cappas in a row."
(Jim Schulman - http://www.home-barista.com/advice/budget-of-1000-which-espresso-machine-for-husbands-birthday-t14536-20.html)


Seems to me that the OP would perhaps be better off going for:
A - Classic and excellent grinder (Preciso/Vario/Mazzer/Macap etc), saving a few hundred from his original 1000 budget
or B - Extending the budget, sticking with same excellent grinder and opting for a pricier machine.

aristotle25

donnacha wrote: »

You could get a rancilio silvia: http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/rancilio_silvia
http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Rancilio-Silvia-Espresso-Machine-(New-Model).html

and then buy a decent grinder with the change: http://coffeeangel.com/shop/mahlkonig-vario/

This is what I have as well and both are excellent. Just remeber to service them yourself (clean them, read about it on the web) and get good fresh beans.

You will have 200 or so left over out of 1000. But well worth it.

Get a decent tamper as well as the one that comes with the rancilio is a plastic rubbish one.

alastair

It's worth mentioning that changing the pressure on the Silvia makes them a good deal easier to work with. First thing to do if you get one. Adding a PID (I've one that does a sort of pre-infusion deal) makes sense if you want a more controllable machine with a smaller form factor than the HX machines. Not ideal for groups though!

The Gaggia Classic seems a bit rinky dink in comparison (imo). Silvia has much better build quality and a brass boiler.

Gran Hermano

I've checked my old emails and it looks like I paid GBP 369 for my Silvia in early 2009. The current price for a Silvia from the same supplier is GBP 435.

Whilst the Silvia has increased in price the Classic has decreased in price. I actually moved from a Classic to a Silvia. At the time there wasn't much in the price between the Classic and a Silvia, around EUR100 or less.

Yes I prefer the Silvia, yes it feels like a better machine and yes it can produce great results. I believe the case on other fora against the Silvia is
as to whether it is approx EUR 280 more than a Classic with current prices.

If the OP is looking for greater capacity than a single boiler machine then yes maybe they should look at a HX or dual boiler. Personally if I were in their shoes I'd most likely pick up the Classic and splurge out on the best grinder they can afford - a grinder that will do the job if/when they upgrade down the road. Gaggia Classics are always popular and it'd be easy to sell on.