Can a mobile phone blow up a petrol station?

billyhead

I was filling my car up at a petrol station today and received a call on the mobile. The next thing the shop attendant made an announcement on the loudspeaker to stop using the phone on the forecourt. Is it true that it could cause an explosion using your mobile this way?

Avns1s

Only if you drop your cigarette while taking the phone out of your pocket!:D:D

It's another urban myth about the "power" of mobile phones!

Plug

Static electricity may ignite petrol fumes in extreme cases. Mythbusters tried if with a heap of phones but couldn't do it.

mickdw

Im no expert but id say its theoretically possible but highly unlikely.

Doom

Technically a polyester jump has more of a chance of causing a fire through static build up

Queen-Mise

Brainaics tried it - its not quite as simple as just using a phone and instant flames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQKNNwf0GQ

mossy2390

most of the time it was static from the person discharging to the car that started fires not phones. often caused by people that would get back into the car while its filling.

what you should have done is stared at them and puled out a fag and a lighter

Gophur

billyhead wrote: »

I was filling my car up at a petrol station today and received a call on the mobile. The next thing the shop attendant made an announcement on the loudspeaker to stop using the phone on the forecourt. Is it true that it could cause an explosion using your mobile this way?

It's not possible to cause an explosion this way.

biko

Neither phones nor cigarettes are likely to cause an explosion but why take the chance standing on 1000s of litres of fuel?

BoredNaMoaner

According to the experts in the Middle East it is a highly dangerous activity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrh55IWbi0M

byhookorbycrook

What about the automatic locking when you use a key fob?

Where To

Can't be bothered looking now but I believe there have been cases where a spark from a dropped phone have caused flash burns.

Also, people tend to do crazy things when distracted by a phone.

Icaras

Yes it can, but very unlikely, depends on reception strength - reception has to be very strong I understand.Guy on the video either answers the phone or uses it as a light on top of the tanker - around the 1:20 mark.

challengemaster

Of course it can, your phone just needs to be made of semtex :pac:

dr.fuzzenstein

Doom wrote: »

Technically a polyester jump has more of a chance of causing a fire through static build up

You'd be right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuZxFL9cGkI

So, sweaters should be banned and mobile phones allowed.
Also, doesn't a car have electrical equipment many times more powerful that a phone?
I'd say the alternator should be removed along with any electrical motor prior to filling up!

When lashing petrol into your car the immediate vicinity by the petrol cap is a "Zone 0" zone........ from here http://www.cdynamics.com/atex_directive.html (and loads of other places too) that's .....

Zone 0 — An atmosphere where a mixture of air and flammable substances in the form of gas, vapor or mist is present frequently, continuously or for long periods


Equipment used in these areas must be EX rated, you can get EX rated mobile phones but the ones we all have aren't EX rated so that's why service stations have the line that you aren't to use one while refueling.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

.............
I'd say the alternator should be removed along with any electrical motor prior to filling up!

You are directed to switch off the engine when refueling

langdang

Was filling petrol one night and could hear electricity arcing, looked up and one of the fluorescents in the canopy was sparking away! Station is still standing though.

Ya, I was gonna mention the EX rating thing too. Even in a lot of places that require EX rated stuff I'd say you be very unlucky to set something off with a phone.


Now, hilariously crap eBay HIDs, like the gimp behind me had one night, strobing away... Plenty of kV's there to make a nice big spark, much closer than a fluorescent in the canopy!

dr.fuzzenstein

RoverJames wrote: »

You are directed to switch off the engine when refueling

Yes indeed, but pedantic pants on:;)
The car has to drive onto the forecourt on it's own power and when it does that it is burning fuel, the alternator is running, maybe some motors and a million watts blasting away from the stereo plus your headlights. You often have to drive past people in the process of refueling. I'm sure that theoretically poses more risk than a mobile phone with a power output of literally some milliwatts.
/pedantic pants off again.:D

DarkJager

Static around the nozzle near the fuel tank opening can start a fire in no time. The most important thing to remember is not to pull the pump out of the car if that happens as you'll set the whole area around you (including yourself) alight.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

................... I'm sure that theoretically poses more risk than a mobile phone with a power output of literally some milliwatts.
/pedantic pants off again.:D

Are you sure though?
Driving past someone refueling by definition means that the engine of your car is further away from that person's fuel cap than you and your car are so the sources of ignition you are thinking of may well not be in Zone 0 :cool:
Zone 0 would be the immediate vicinity of the petrol cap and nozzle of the pump doing the refueling, also petrol fumes will mix with air and the flammable risk becomes less the further they are from the source due to them being diluted.

martyc5674

The flash point of petrol is very low.
Ie the ratio of petrol vapor to oxygen needs to be relatively low for an explosive atmosphere to exist.
This ratio is exceeded very easily with hydrocarbons such as petrol and the flash point is exceeded rapidly removing the explosive atmosphere.

I very much doubt the vicinity of the nozzle is a zone zero.
I work in a chemical plant and the only zone zero areas are inside the reactors.
Most ex rated equipment would be rated to zone 1 or above.

Anyway it's mostly arse. I worked in a petrol station years ago and used fill peoples cars whilst smoking a dag!
It was the done thing!!..

Marty.

bfocusd

Static electricity, Im constantly being shocked by random objects, won't be filling my tank, volunteers?

dr.fuzzenstein

RoverJames wrote: »

Are you sure though?
Driving past someone refueling by definition means that the engine of your car is further away from that person's fuel cap than you and your car are so the sources of ignition you are thinking of may well not be in Zone 0 :cool:
Zone 0 would be the immediate vicinity of the petrol cap and nozzle of the pump doing the refueling, also petrol fumes will mix with air and the flammable risk becomes less the further they are from the source due to them being diluted.

Just posting a theoretical maybe here, think it's about as likely as the phone scenario.
While we're talking about Zone 0, so the one thing that is in that zone would be the fuel nozzle, the filler hose and the person's hand.
As seen in the fuzzy jumper video, nylon and other man-made fabrics are far more dangerous, in fact I vote shoes could be the worst offender!
If you're wearing shoes that have plastic soles, your body could accrue static electricity, this would arc from the fuel hose to the car and that will start a fire.
Ever had shoes where you're constantly getting shocked, change to other ones and you're fine?
Don't wear the first pair when filling up.:D
In fact, when handling sensitive electronics, you are made to wear a wristband and conductors for your shoes, so sparks from your body won't fry the circuits.
So, safety tip when refueling your car:
Get earthed!;)
I drive diesel, so I don't have to worry, pretty hard set that stuff alight.

martyc5674

martyc5674 wrote: »

................

I very much doubt the vicinity of the nozzle is a zone zero.
I work in a chemical plant and the only zone zero areas are inside the reactors.
Most ex rated equipment would be rated to zone 1 or above............

Really?

So most of the stuff is rated ex ib? So nothing is rated ex ia?
A lot depends on the chemicals being used of course.


.... if the petrol nozzle area is Zone 1 the same logic applies anyway, mobiles aren't ex ib rated.

rab!dmonkey

Icaras wrote: »

Yes it can, but very unlikely, depends on reception strength - reception has to be very strong I understand.Guy on the video either answers the phone or uses it as a light on top of the tanker - around the 1:20 mark.


How can you tell he's using a phone? Is it not possible that he took out a lighter - idiotic as that may be? He rubs his clothes as he reaches for whatever it is he takes out of his pocket: that could be enough to generate a static charge sufficient to ignite some fumes.

In any case, some fool messing about around the opening of a huge can of petrol and fumes is a very different scenario to using a phone in a next to pumps delivering relatively small amounts of petrol through a (nearly) sealed system.

MadsL

Here in the very dry high desert (NM, USA) static builds very easily because of the low humidity. I now close my door with my elbow or knuckle because the static discharge hurts less.

I used to think the petrol station thing was a myth, but I am now careful to discharge first before filling at petrol stations here. All pumps remind you to earth before filling.

MarkR

MadsL wrote: »

Here in the very dry high desert (NM, USA) static builds very easily because of the low humidity. I now close my door with my elbow or knuckle because the static discharge hurts less.

I used to think the petrol station thing was a myth, but I am now careful to discharge first before filling at petrol stations here. All pumps remind you to earth before filling.

Is there an earthing point or do they suggest how to earth yourself?

seamus

There has never been a single confirmed case of a mobile phone causing a petrol station fire because someone made a call while refilling. Given that there are more than a billion mobiles in circulation, it's fair to say theres no danger.

It's generally believed that this rule came out about because the early mobiles used to interfere with some pumps and the gauge would misread the amoun of petrol dispensed. It was marketed as a safety precaution, but it wasn't.

run_Forrest_run

if you want to see a worker in a petrol station utterly freak out if he sees someone with a mobile even remotely near the pumps make sure to check out the folks at Lee Garage station, on Model Farm Rd, Cork...one of them verbally abused a work colleague of mine once for talking on the phone...hilarious.

franciebellew

Its actually just as dangerous to fart while filling your car with fuel.

If the fart were to ignite a seriousy
fire would occur

Joe 90

I would have thought that the biggest risk is when you start the car? All those nice fat juicy sparks at the commutator in the starter.

T-Maxx

No.

[/thread]

gbee

Joe 90 wrote: »

I would have thought that the biggest risk is when you start the car? All those nice fat juicy sparks at the commutator in the starter.

Only if not maintained and sure, cars have gone on fire regularly enough but all these sparks are guarded and grounded and won't 'escape' unless there is a fault.

Run_to_da_hills

billyhead wrote: »

I was filling my car up at a petrol station today and received a call on the mobile. The next thing the shop attendant made an announcement on the loudspeaker to stop using the phone on the forecourt. Is it true that it could cause an explosion using your mobile this way?

Mobile phones are also forbidden in oil refineries, chemical factories and petro chemical tank farms often with instant dismissal if caught using one. Its a guideline that goes back a number of years when cell phones were a lot cruder and less shielded against static and other forms of electrical discharge than they are now.

Only certain mobile phones are allowed in these places and they are very basic and quite costly. I would imagine an ordinary service station would have a similar environment as a petrochemical plant when it comes to health and safety risks.

In some highly volatile petrochemical plants a hot work permit is required just for taking digital photos.

gbee

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In some highly volatile petrochemical plants a hot work permit is required just for taking digital photos.

It wasn't just digital photos and the tripod had to be insulated and the camera triggered vis it's self timer free standing. It also had to be in a box?

vader65

I never knew why petrol stations always had that no mobile phone signs. I didn't know that it was static that could cause fires. Still I think the no mobile phone thing is abit stupid as I have seen people use them before and nothing has happened.

Run_to_da_hills

vader65 wrote: »

I never knew why petrol stations always had that no mobile phone signs. I didn't know that it was static that could cause fires. Still I think the no mobile phone thing is abit stupid as I have seen people use them before and nothing has happened.

There is always the case that it could happen and once would be enough. There is also the detraction element, someone chatting on the phone while filling the tank could get distracted and do something stupid.

dr.fuzzenstein

So, mobile phones, instant explosion, mile deep crater, thousands killed, but this guy, SAFE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B50DwzngE4

electro-shocks

MadsL

MarkR wrote: »

Is there an earthing point or do they suggest how to earth yourself?

Explained at 4.38 in the video above. Most important note is not to get back in the car whilst re-fueling without earthing before touching the pump. This doesn't happen much in Ireland because a lot of petrol stations disable the trigger lock on the pump...here in the US I have a 22 gallon tank that takes a while to fill.

Also the risk is much lower due to the higher humidity in Ireland. Here it can drop to single figures meaning I spark every time I get out of the car. Pain in the ass to earth, but better than BOOM.

Just try and remember if you are ever fuelling in a very dry climate.

dr.fuzzenstein

electro-shocks wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRcnGm97wEQ

Yep, as to mobile phones: