timing of the 6 Nations

Coburger

Hi, does anyone think that the 6 Nations should be pushed back by around a month.

Personally, I think having a game in Paris, late at night on an extremely cold February evening is just terrible. Imagine playing in -7 degrees!!!

Some of the games are painful to watch in the tournament with the weather being a factor (not always the main one though). What are the chances of decent weather in Edinburgh for a game?

If they pushed the tournament back by a month, starting let's say in the middle of march, finishing at the end of April.

Why do they continue to have games at such a poor time of the year, is it so that they can get more money from summer tours? Any thoughts?

danthefan

Why not make rugby a summer sport while we're at it.

mrboswell

Fixtures are well set.

If they moved it it would clash with the business end of all domestic competitions and the HCup.

No way it would change but its the TV rights in France that have the game so late. Its actually starting at 9 in Paris.

Mind you nothing wrong with heading down to the local at a reasonable hour to watch a 6 nations match and have a few pints.

JustinDee

No. Its the premier rugby tournament behind the RWC.
Getting rid of silly French kick-off times is all that is needed.
Ballons a la difference!

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

No. Its the premier rugby tournament behind the RWC.
Getting rid of silly French kick-off times is all that is needed.
Ballons a la difference!

I would love to see a 9 pm kickoff over here. The French have it right.

danthefan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would love to see a 9 pm kickoff over here. The French have it right.

Agree, I love the 8pm kickoffs you occassionally get over here. Usually on a Friday I think.

One thing though is I've been to a 9pm kickoff in France on a Sunday, that isn't much craic.

Burgo

Glad its a late kick off tonight, in work today so would miss it otherwise!

phog

Late ko times might be ok for those who live near the stadium but in the main they're not suitable for anyone that has a t least a 2 hour journey after the game.

I'd hate to see them creep into 6Ns and other International games.

Digifriendly

phog wrote: »

Late ko times might be ok for those who live near the stadium but in the main they're not suitable for anyone that has a t least a 2 hour journey after the game.

I'd hate to see them creep into 6Ns and other International games.

Think I'm right in saying they had Friday night games for last few seasons but those have been dropped probably largely due to away supporters having difficulty making a Friday night match. Apart from demands of TV I can't see why they don't play all 3 matches on a Saturday with one of the games being an evening KO. Also this year we have AIL games on same weekend as 6 nations which AFAIK hasn't been the case in recent seasons. With U20's 6 nations and Pro 12 matches on some weekends this severly hampers some of the club sides.

Dravokivich

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would love to see a 9 pm kickoff over here. The French have it right.

A 9 kick off means the game will be over around 10:45-ish. Lack of late night public transport becomes an issue here. If I'm not able to get home from game, I'm not going to go to the game.

danthefan

Dravokivich wrote: »

A 9 kick off means the game will be over around 10:45-ish. Lack of late night public transport becomes an issue here. If I'm not able to get home from game, I'm not going to go to the game.

I'd agree 9 is a bit late to start but 8 isn't imo.

pc7

In Paris the last few days it's Baltic at night lovely and sunny (still cold) during the day, really feel with the worry over the pitch the should have moved it to a 2 or 3pm kick off. Air temps were zero at that time yesterday as opposed to -8 last night at 9. I've my thermals on!!

phog

Late ko might be okay in countries with decent public transport or a decent road infastructure but in Ireland while the raods aren't too bad the public transport is a joke.

Fishooks12

phog wrote: »

Late ko might be okay in countries with decent public transport or a decent road infastructure but in Ireland while the raods aren't too bad the public transport is a joke.

It would easily work in the Aviva, which is very accessible

phog

Fishooks12 wrote: »

It would easily work in the Aviva, which is very accessible

What public transport is there from 10pm onwards?

Fishooks12

phog wrote: »

What public transport is there from 10pm onwards?

Dublin bus, Luas runs until 11 too doesn't it?

phog

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Dublin bus, Luas runs until 11 too doesn't it?

The LUAS does not run to the Aviva and it really cant cope with after match crowds, especially if you're using it as an interconnect to Heuston. Believe me I've tried and public transport is hopeless for late kick-offs because you need to get the "last train". Earlier kickoff allows supporters hang around and get one of maybe 2 or 3 trains later on, it's so much more enjoyable.

Fishooks12

phog wrote: »

The LUAS does not run to the Aviva and it really cant cope with after match crowds, especially if you're using it as an interconnect to Heuston. Believe me I've tried and public transport is hopeless for late kick-offs because you need to get the "last train". Earlier kickoff allows supporters hang around and get one of maybe 2 or 3 trains later on, it's so much more enjoyable.

Ah I suppose you're right. They could extend the time the luas runs on a match day or something maybe..

JustinDee

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Ah I suppose you're right. They could extend the time the luas runs on a match day or something maybe..

No, they couldn't. Planning permission with regards residents, public transport and events is already laid down.

[Jackass]

I wish it was at the very end of the season, and only once every 2 years, with a summer tour in between.

JustinDee

[Jackass] wrote: »

I wish it was at the very end of the season, and only once every 2 years, with a summer tour in between.

The sport and in particular, the participating unions and subsequent branches/regions simply cannot afford that.

ArmaniJeanss

pc7 wrote: »

In Paris the last few days it's Baltic at night lovely and sunny (still cold) during the day, really feel with the worry over the pitch the should have moved it to a 2 or 3pm kick off.

How late in the day can you move the kickoff though?

Some people will have flights booked to arrive at lunchtime today.
Satellite time will have been booked.
Stewards/police/transport services/ambulance/food-caterers will have arranged their plan around an evening kickoff.

Its probably possible to do it, but not ideal.

pickarooney

90 minutes beforehand, apparently. It could still be called off.

gcgirl

Half 6 will be the final decision on the pitch
The late kick off are a very european thing only sadly in Dublin it does not have the same transport infrastructure

Superbus

So this wasn't such a silly thread after all.

phog

[Jackass] wrote: »

I wish it was at the very end of the season, and only once every 2 years, with a summer tour in between.

6Ns is probably one of the biggest earners for the IRFU.

snotboogie

[Jackass] wrote: »

I wish it was at the very end of the season, and only once every 2 years, with a summer tour in between.

This, or keep the 6 nations where it is but have it every other year. Non 6 nations years could have a European Championships with Argentina (with a more creative name) in the summer. Two groups of four, top two from each go on to the semi's and bottom of each play off for relegation from the tournament two years later. Would help top spread the game and keep things interesting.

Eg

Group 1
England
Ireland
Wales
Italy

Group 2
France
Argentina
Scotland
Georgia

TwoFace

Relax,it was only one game.
The six nations is fine where it is

mrboswell

I'd love to see home and away legs spaces over 2 or 3 blocks in the calender

pred racer

gcgirl wrote: »

Half 6 will be the final decision on the pitch
The late kick off are a very european thing only sadly in Dublin it does not have the same transport infrastructure

The last train to where i live in paris goes at 10:30 and at that i would still have to get from stade de france into town to catch it, so public transport not an option here for late kickoffs either! (unless you live in the city centre)

Sandwlch

JustinDee wrote: »

The sport and in particular, the participating unions and subsequent branches/regions simply cannot afford that.

Of course they can. If they wished. ife and rugby would go on. But they choose not to.

JustinDee

Sandwlch wrote: »

Of course they can. If they wished. ife and rugby would go on. But they choose not to.

They can't. With funding halved, which union and its regions would continue to thrive?

Lapin

Its not the first time this happened in recent years.

The Triple Crown games in 2001 were all postponed until autumn of that year due to the outbreak of foot and mouth disease.

Although the decision was made well before the team (and fans) travelled anywhere.

marco_polo

Sandwlch wrote: »

JustinDee wrote: »

The sport and in particular, the participating unions and subsequent branches/regions simply cannot afford that.

Of course they can. If they wished. ife and rugby would go on. But they choose not to.

And amen to that?

Podge_irl

The 6N is fine where it is. It's my favourite time of year. The idiotic French game timings are the problem.

9pm (or even 8pm) games in Paris or London are crap cause the stadiums are in the middle of nowhere. It works ok in Dublin for locals but no one else cause public transport is an issue. I dunno what the problem is with a late afternoon and early evening kick. It's a Saturday!

Podge_irl

Sandwlch wrote: »

Of course they can. If they wished. ife and rugby would go on. But they choose not to.

Of course they can't. They'd be giving up 8-12M a year just in gate receipts. Never mind the merchandise they'd lose from the 6N not being every year.

There is also the fact that the 6N is the premier rugby tournament in the NH (as much as I love the HEC it is dwarfed by the 6N) and giving that up would be monumentally stupid.

Neil3030

Easy solution.



Games at night, still time to get public transport home.

tolosenc

When was the last time a 6N match was cancelled due to weather? I never recall it happening.

ArmaniJeanss

JustinDee wrote: »

They can't. With funding halved, which union and its regions would continue to thrive?

If every unions income got cut by the same percentage then wouldn't the status quo remain?

I've said it before but if RU wants to become a true world sport then a 15 or20 year drop in revenue may be necessary, with the hope that the sport comes out bigger and better (with more revenue streams) at the end.

****
Things like dropping the 6N every fourth year to have a European Championship with the Top2 from TierB.
Each of the Big6 Euro nations dropping a home Autum International every second year and travelling to Moscow,Tbilisi or Bucharest instead (Not Saxons or Wolfhounds or developement XVs, the first team with the stars.)
The AllBlacks,Argentina,Aus and SA always playing one full international in one of these cities when they tour.
Ditto no tours like Ireland playing 3 test matches in NZ this summer, one of the games in Tonga or Samoa or Japan instead.
A proper promotion/releg system to the 6N from the lower tier, by playoff.
****

All revenue losers in the short term, but someone needs to seize the day.

Podge_irl

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If every unions income got cut by the same percentage then wouldn't the status quo remain?

No, the SH teams would race ahead. The way forward is to identify teams who may make the step up eventually (i.e. Georgia/Romania) and introduce them to a 7/8N tournament and then give them time to develop. A European tournament every 4 or 2 years is utterly pointless. Even a relatively strong team like Italy have been poor for years and are only now beginning to be competitive. Rugby is not a sport that lends itself to growing quickly.

Hopefully in 20 years time we will have 8 decent European teams and a few more worth investment. But that is the time scale we need to be looking at.

funky penguin

tolosenc wrote: »

When was the last time a 6N match was cancelled due to weather? I never recall it happening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16969821

Apparently 1985!

Lapin

funky penguin wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16969821

Apparently 1985!

Anyone know what match it was though?

We won the Triple crown that year.

I don't remember any postponed games. But then - I was only a kid at the time.


Still am

durkadurka

Yeah I remember a five nations game called off in Dublin due to snow back in the 80's.

JustinDee

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If every unions income got cut by the same percentage then wouldn't the status quo remain?

I've said it before but if RU wants to become a true world sport then a 15 or20 year drop in revenue may be necessary, with the hope that the sport comes out bigger and better (with more revenue streams) at the end.

****
Things like dropping the 6N every fourth year to have a European Championship with the Top2 from TierB.
Each of the Big6 Euro nations dropping a home Autum International every second year and travelling to Moscow,Tbilisi or Bucharest instead (Not Saxons or Wolfhounds or developement XVs, the first team with the stars.)
The AllBlacks,Argentina,Aus and SA always playing one full international in one of these cities when they tour.
Ditto no tours like Ireland playing 3 test matches in NZ this summer, one of the games in Tonga or Samoa or Japan instead.
A proper promotion/releg system to the 6N from the lower tier, by playoff.
****

All revenue losers in the short term, but someone needs to seize the day.

A fine way to undo every strand of progress the sport has made with a misguided and unrealistic aim at the end of the financial suicide.
No, the status quo would NOT remain. 50% revenue cut to the game hurts it all the way down to lowest junior club level.

Beubeu

cant do that because of the Hcup.

pc7

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

How late in the day can you move the kickoff though?

Some people will have flights booked to arrive at lunchtime today.
Satellite time will have been booked.
Stewards/police/transport services/ambulance/food-caterers will have arranged their plan around an evening kickoff.

Its probably possible to do it, but not ideal.

Would have been more ideal than what happened, it had been so cold thurs and Friday night we really didn't expect it to go ahead. We were keeping an eye online news feeds, here, texting home all day for updates. So if they had of moved it word would have spread which would have served everyone better than the trek to stade. The killer for me was we got the word pitch had passed inspection and were chuffed and in great spirits. The Irish team warming up, the crowd were buzzing then we got word from home it was cancelled before they announced it. Ah well cest la vie, now our flight is delayed lol reckon my luck is on a downward spiral!

Coburger

The problem about having games at this time of the year is how the weather can severely affect the game - very wet and windy conditions don't help catching a ball which is like a bar of soap which results in a lot less attractive attacking rugby. How often are there memorable games? I'm not suggesting that the weather is the only reason but it helps.

I wonder what it would be like if they pushed the 6N back by just a month and a half could it make the game more attractive for the viewers and the players.

plasmaguy

From what I could see the 6n organisers and French TV would be happy to play rugby matches on an Ice Rink, provided it was at PrimeTime and they could sell more advertising.

Players get hurt or seriously injured? So what! Might even make it more entertaining, according to the TV organisers.

Rugby on Ice anyone?

phog

mrboswell wrote: »

I'd love to see home and away legs spaces over 2 or 3 blocks in the calender

If they went for this then could include BP win/losses too which would make the tournament similar to other rugby competitions. I'd fear for the ruby calendar though, something would have to suffer.

Sandwlch wrote: »

Of course they can. If they wished. ife and rugby would go on. But they choose not to.

Please explain how you think this is possible.

ArmaniJeanss

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

****
Things like dropping the 6N every fourth year to have a European Championship with the Top2 from TierB.
Each of the Big6 Euro nations dropping a home Autum International every second year and travelling to Moscow,Tbilisi or Bucharest instead (Not Saxons or Wolfhounds or developement XVs, the first team with the stars.)
The AllBlacks,Argentina,Aus and SA always playing one full international in one of these cities when they tour.
Ditto no tours like Ireland playing 3 test matches in NZ this summer, one of the games in Tonga or Samoa or Japan instead.
A proper promotion/releg system to the 6N from the lower tier, by playoff.
****

JustinDee wrote: »

A fine way to undo every strand of progress the sport has made with a misguided and unrealistic aim at the end of the financial suicide.

Out of interest, would you like to see a situation where the game is so ultra competitive that potentially Ireland (or any of the current European Big 6) fail to qualify for the World Cup because Germany, Spain, Portugal or CzechRep take some of Europes nine qualifying places ahead of them?

You see, as an outsider looking in, it appears to me that this would be regarded as a nightmare by the IRFU, SRFU etc. So instead of aiming for a situation where there could be 15 or 18 competitive teams in Europe, instead everything is actually done to prevent this happening whilst keeping up a pretence that expansion is supported.

When you expand it to be a worldwide game (and that might take 100 or 200 years from now) theres also a risk that there may be twenty or thirty countries better than you and you are no longer at the top table. And it looks to me as if the administrators in a few of the Big10 countries are more interested in keeping their countries place at the top table and pay only lip service to the ideas of expansion.

marco_polo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

****
Things like dropping the 6N every fourth year to have a European Championship with the Top2 from TierB.
Each of the Big6 Euro nations dropping a home Autum International every second year and travelling to Moscow,Tbilisi or Bucharest instead (Not Saxons or Wolfhounds or developement XVs, the first team with the stars.)
The AllBlacks,Argentina,Aus and SA always playing one full international in one of these cities when they tour.
Ditto no tours like Ireland playing 3 test matches in NZ this summer, one of the games in Tonga or Samoa or Japan instead.
A proper promotion/releg system to the 6N from the lower tier, by playoff.
****

JustinDee wrote: »

A fine way to undo every strand of progress the sport has made with a misguided and unrealistic aim at the end of the financial suicide.

Out of interest, would you like to see a situation where the game is so ultra competitive that potentially Ireland (or any of the current European Big 6) fail to qualify for the World Cup because Germany, Spain, Portugal or CzechRep take some of Europes nine qualifying places ahead of them?

You see, as an outsider looking in, it appears to me that this would be regarded as a nightmare by the IRFU, SRFU etc. So instead of aiming for a situation where there could be 15 or 18 competitive teams in Europe, instead everything is actually done to prevent this happening whilst keeping up a pretence that expansion is supported.

When you expand it to be a worldwide game (and that might take 100 or 200 years from now) theres also a risk that there may be twenty or thirty countries better than you and you are no longer at the top table. And it looks to me as if the administrators in a few of the Big10 countries are more interested in keeping their countries place at the top table and pay only lip service to the ideas of expansion.

The IRB are funding Argentinas entry to the former tri nations tournament to the tune of 2.5 million dollars per annum for the first four years.

Pretty generous lip service in all fairness.