Leinster/Ulster/Munster Vs Ireland

profitius

Would I be correct in thinking Ireland would struggle to beat any of those provinces? Leinster would win while Munster and Ulster would probably win too despite Ireland having the best players.

All 3 provinces have a defined gameplan and all 3 get the best out of their players. Kidney has failed to get the best out of the Irish players for too long. The Irish gameplan is all over the place with reports that the video analyst is even having a say in matters!

the juice

profitius wrote: »

reports that the video analyst is even having a say in matters!

Yeah he presses pause and play but mostly fast forward through the crappy bits ie the whole match

jm08

profitius wrote: »

Would I be correct in thinking Ireland would struggle to beat any of those provinces? Leinster would win while Munster and Ulster would probably win too despite Ireland having the best players.

All 3 provinces have a defined gameplan and all 3 get the best out of their players. Kidney has failed to get the best out of the Irish players for too long. The Irish gameplan is all over the place with reports that the video analyst is even having a say in matters!

a munster team beat an Ireland team on their way to the world cup in 1999 (26-19). this was the team

http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/match_centre.php?section=lineups&fixid=27064

gatland was coaching ireland at the time and kidney was coaching munster.

different situations a club coach has the players for months and the internationals are only there for a few weeks. all the irish provinces have had better luck beating southern hemisphere teams than ireland has had.

buck65

Well seeing Leinster is half the national team now and some of the squad you would expect them to beat Ireland as Ireland would be weakened.
Daft argument though.

profitius

buck65 wrote: »

Well seeing Leinster is half the national team now and some of the squad you would expect them to beat Ireland as Ireland would be weakened.
Daft argument though.

Ireland have the better players.

ray jay

buck65 wrote: »

Well seeing Leinster is half the national team now and some of the squad you would expect them to beat Ireland as Ireland would be weakened.
Daft argument though.

I'd imagine the point of this hypothetical situation is to assume that players would be duplicated if they appear on both team sheets. He's highlighting the differences in coaching.

The argument that the Ireland coach only gets to work with the players for a couple of months isn't really a good one when you consider that Kidney has worked with these players for years.

jm08

ray jay wrote: »

I'd imagine the point of this hypothetical situation is to assume that players would be duplicated if they appear on both team sheets. He's highlighting the differences in coaching.

The argument that the Ireland coach only gets to work with the players for a couple of months isn't really a good one when you consider that Kidney has worked with these players for years.

Its more than just working with the coach though. new playing partnerships as well as getting used to each other again (best in the front row, ferris in the backrow, murray and sexton. you rarely see a team gelling together in their first game of the season. i think rockys first game or two with leinster was quiet enough until he settled in.

profitius

Look at how Gatland has got Wales playing and compare them to Ireland. Kidney had enough time at the world cup and still it was the same old story.

Guy:Incognito

profitius wrote: »

Ireland have the better players.

Leinster have the better team.

ray jay wrote: »

The argument that the Ireland coach only gets to work with the players for a couple of months isn't really a good one when you consider that Kidney has worked with these players for years.

I'm no Kidney fan, but he's had them for years but only a few weeks at a time.

The players in a club play , train and in seperate groups maybe, socialise together all year round. You get a much more cohesive team than you can pulling players from 4 or 5 differnt teams and sticking them together fpr a couple of matched every so often.

If someone had the time, an interesting graph could show the amount of time each player in the current squad has been on the pitch with another. ie POC's caps only overlap with Johnny Sextons maybe 15 or 18 times at a guess?

profitius

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Leinster have the better team.

Thats the point I'm making.

phog

Munster beat the rest of Ireland in the early 90's, it was a warm up game for Munster prior to their S/f game against SdF in Lille. A lot of games were postponed in the run up the semi-finals due to the foot and mouth disease.

thomond2006

As the saying goes, Shannon would beat Ireland.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

As the saying goes, Shannon would beat Ireland.

That's the thing, they'd probably up their game to beat an Irish side while they dont bother their backsides against the likes of Wales.

JustinDee

Tyson had a monster punch and body shot but Ali better reach and speed . . .

Benny Cake

This thread makes my head hurt...

seanin4711

i would say my beloved connacht would even give them a game!
(noticed we were left out of the OP,nothing new there!were used to it by now!)

Tox56

seanin4711 wrote: »

i would say my beloved connacht would even give them a game!
(noticed we were left out of the OP,nothing new there!were used to it by now!)

No offence to Connacht, but 1 win in the HEC compared to 3 Quarter-Finalists in the same competition is a stark difference.

I don't think they are that bad, but they have work to do as I'm sure they know. I have to hope one day all 4 will be on a par. If Connacht can work their way to where Ulster are now or even close to it, Irish rugby would benefit hugely.

the juice

Tox56 wrote: »

If Connacht can work their way to where Ulster are now or even close to it, Irish rugby would benefit hugely.

Not of Kidney is still coach; they'd probably be far too exciting and modern for his type of game.

.ak

Also Connacht did play Ireland recently...

siltirocker

.ak wrote: »

Also Connacht did play Ireland recently...

McFadden & Mincer (at 10) had great games. And Buckley was demolished in the scrum by . . . Rodney Ah You.

Blut2

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'm no Kidney fan, but he's had them for years but only a few weeks at a time.

The players in a club play , train and in seperate groups maybe, socialise together all year round. You get a much more cohesive team than you can pulling players from 4 or 5 differnt teams and sticking them together fpr a couple of matched every so often.

The same argument could be applied to Wales. Same number of provincial teams, competing in the same league as the Irish provinces, but performing far worse on a week-to-week basis. Yet somehow the Welsh team performs better than its constituent provinces when the players are together for the national team but the Irish team performs worse than its constituent provinces.

I think the time together argument is a crutch for coaching issues, personally.