A question about water resistance

_Whimsical_

I am weighing up my options between two watches right now (I know... happy days!). One is water resistance 100m, its a citizen eco drive watch. I was just wondering if water resistance covers being able to wear it in the shower or not have to take it off when doing the dishes etc ?

It kind of seems like a stupid question,the obvious answer would be "yes thats fine", but I've had conflicting advice so I'm asking the experts.

Also is changing the bracelet size on an ecodrive watch a big todo or is it easy enough? I have a voucher for shop outside of Galway so someones going to pick the watch up for me so I dont know if the bracelet will fit.

Bullseye1

Actually it's not a silly question at all. It very much depends on the manufacturers specifications but in general even they recommend against wearing a watch in thr shower. Something to do with the power of the water spray. Also it's important that you have the winder screw in the locked position when anywhere near water.

CALCUL

Hello.

Our standard intructions and guarantee booklet for Citizen outlines the position regarding the various levels of water resistance for Citizen watches. As Bullseye1 points out this can vary between brands - and his advice re the shower is good. In addition to the power of the water spray, there is a chance of steam passing through an open crown and into the watch case.

All that said, you should be OK with a Citizen 100m. Here is the official line from the FAQ section of www.citizenwatch.com :

What does "Water resistant to 10 Bar (ATM)" mean?

This watch is designed to withstand accidental splashing, exposure to rain, showering, swimming in a pool, etc. Rinse the watch with fresh water after exposure to a chlorinated pool, salt water, soaps, etc.

By the way, "10 Bar" of atmospheric pressure, or "10 ATM", is a roundabout way of saying 100m when you are referring to water resistance in a watch. Some watches have Metres printed on the dial, some have ATM, some have Bar.

Regards,
CALCUL

Citizen Watch Distributor & Service Centre
Shannon, Co. Clare.

CALCUL

As a follow-on to the above, there are of course other considerations besides the inner workings of the watch when it comes to exposure to water, soap, grease etc. - especially in the case of leather strap watches. Below is an extract from our "How to care for your Citizen watch" booklet.

CITIZEN WATCH CARE

PLATING (INCL. GOLD/BLACK ION PLATING):
If your watch is two-tone or plated (usually gold or black), please note that this colouring will at some stage in the life of the watch show signs of wear. This is to be expected with plating. Matters such as perspiration, type of work being performed by the wearer and general care of the watch as described here all have a bearing on the life of the plating.

CARE FOR METAL CASES AND BRACELETS:
Be aware that since the watch bracelet is worn close to the skin, it collects dust and
perspiration and becomes soiled if not cleaned regularly. This is particularly true of the inner parts of the links. Soil and rust, when present in a bracelet, are dissolved by perspiration and can cause staining of cuffs and irritation of the skin in some instances. Dust and perspiration should be wiped off the case and bracelet with a soft dry cloth.
Your watch case or bracelet should not be exposed to chemicals. If any chemical (such as fuel, benzene, thinners, alcohol, perfumes, mercury or similar substance) come into contact with your watch or bracelet, discolouration or damage to the case, band or other components may occur.

CARE FOR LEATHER OR CROCODILE STRAPS:
The strap should be kept clean and dry. Note that heavy perspiration can, over time,
wash out natural oils and cause leather to deteriorate. Any moisture should be blotted with a soft dry cloth and the strap should then be let to dry out naturally.
Salt residue and soil can be removed from the strap by cleaning with a dampened soft cloth and mild soap or saddle soap.
Occasionally the inside of the strap should be cleaned with a soft cloth dampened with alcohol.
The strap should always be worn a little loosely (one finger space between wrist and strap) to let the air circulate and thus allow any moisture to evaporate.

CARE FOR RUBBER STRAPS:
Rubber straps should be washed frequently with mild soap and warm water using a soft brush. Thorough cleaning should especially be done after use in salt water.
Solvents, oils, perspiration, tanning lotion and salt can cause rubber to deteriorate if not removed.

WATER RESISTANCE:
Watches which are not marked as water resistant to at least 50M should not be
immersed in water or exposed to steam when showering etc.

Wibbs

As above. Avoid wearing a watch in the shower(or immersing your watch when washing dishes). The hot water can play havoc with seals. I've even heard of Rolex Oysters having trouble and they have a screw down crown and would be far more water resistant than the average watches that rely on rubber gaskets and seals. Plus those seals will wear out faster if exposed to thermal shock until one day you get a failure. TBH other than the odd splash, rain etc, I'd not wholly trust any watches claims of long term water resistance unless they were of the screw down crown type "divers" watches(with a couple of rare exceptions).

SmartFox

Wibbs wrote: »

... The hot water can play havoc with seals....

Agreed, also to maintain water resistance to manufacturers claims, AFAIK you need to have the seals replaced every year.

_Whimsical_

Thanks a million for the replies everyone it's much appreciated. I will avoid letting it take the full force of the shower so just in case. It's very useful to know that it'll stand the occasional splash doing the dishes etc though as its an expensive watch(well by my standards,probably not my other people's) so I'd be worried about taking it off every time I washed my hands etc in case I'd lose it. Ye have sold me on the water resistant one:).

Thanks Calcul for finding that info and copying and pasting for me too it's very helpful.:)

Anjobe

The idea that the dynamic pressure created by moving water can overwhelm the water resistance of a watch is a myth e.g. the dynamic pressure created by water moving at 10 m/s is 0.5 ATM (equivalent to 5 m). I'm not sure how fast water comes out of a shower head but it would have to be going at 200m/s (nearly 450 mph!) to create a pressure of 10 ATM.

Watches bearing a water resistance rating should comply with the ISO 22810 standard. This specifies a number of tests which include a condensation test and immersion in warm water, as well as immersion at the rated pressure. A watch that can pass these tests should certainly be able to stand up to a shower or washing up water.

The points raised by other posters about the seals ageing are valid - the water resistance rating only applies to the watch when new, and the water resistance will decrease over time. I don't know about showering and dish washing making the seals deteriorate faster though. If the watch is on the wrist then it will be kept close to body temperature and a shower or brief immersion in washing up water will only increase that by a few degrees.

Dee Clothier

FWIW, I've been wearing my Vostok Amphibia (rated 200m) swimming two or three times a week since Christmas and in the showers afterwards. It's been fine so far.

peasant

Dee Clothier wrote: »

Vostok Amphibia

In Soviet Russia, watch swims you

Wibbs

Anjobe wrote: »

The idea that the dynamic pressure created by moving water can overwhelm the water resistance of a watch is a myth e.g. the dynamic pressure created by water moving at 10 m/s is 0.5 ATM (equivalent to 5 m). I'm not sure how fast water comes out of a shower head but it would have to be going at 200m/s (nearly 450 mph!) to create a pressure of 10 ATM.

Watches bearing a water resistance rating should comply with the ISO 22810 standard. This specifies a number of tests which include a condensation test and immersion in warm water, as well as immersion at the rated pressure. A watch that can pass these tests should certainly be able to stand up to a shower or washing up water.

The points raised by other posters about the seals ageing are valid - the water resistance rating only applies to the watch when new, and the water resistance will decrease over time. I don't know about showering and dish washing making the seals deteriorate faster though. If the watch is on the wrist then it will be kept close to body temperature and a shower or brief immersion in washing up water will only increase that by a few degrees.

I agree with you 100% on the water pressure angle A. While showering I do like to be cleaned, but not 10ATM's cleaned. When I can see my muscle tissue I figure that's more clean than is healthy:D

That said I've had two "water proof/resistant" watches fail after showering over time. I've read similar reports from others experiences. Maybe(and this is my humble) it's the soap not the water? That the detergents involved break down the seals more rapidly?

Wibbs

peasant wrote: »

In Soviet Russia, watch swims you

I have to say I just love the Russian approach to waterproofing. Quite different to the Rolex oyster approach common in the west, but equally valid(I'd add the super compressor approach to that list). The more modern "lets just rely on the integrity of the seals and more acuity in manufacture" approach not nearly as good for me.

peasant

Wibbs wrote: »

I have to say I just love the Russian approach to waterproofing. Quite different to the Rolex oyster approach common in the west, but equally valid(I'd add the super compressor approach to that list). The more modern "lets just rely on the integrity of the seals and more acuity in manufacture" approach not nearly as good for me.

...and then there would be the "other" Russian diver

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/andreaflorian/5167408652/

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/andreaflorian/sets/72157622838628311/

Wibbs

bedlam wrote: »

I present to thee, the Pita Oceana

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yzFKCoHzU

Coool. The early evolution of "waterproof" watches is an interesting area of collecting. The earliest watches had none at all. Barely dust proof. Basically small pocket watches with lugs added almost as an afterthought. Then came the Borgel cased watches which were a step up. The whole movement was encased and came out through the screwed front. Then they got serious and encased he whole watch in a screwed down case, with the watch itself hinged for winding. Not unlike that Oceana above. If automatic watches had been more successful at the time that might have even taken off.

peasant wrote: »

...and then there would be the "other" Russian diver

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/andreaflorian/5167408652/

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/andreaflorian/sets/72157622838628311/

I had one of them once. They're HUGE :eek: Cool mind you. A super Rolex oyster on steroids with a side order of acid...