Joe Duffy, Papal Visit, listener Poll.

joseph brand

Caught 10 mins of Joe today while in the car (never listen to him).

There was a Poll, and the question was, 'whether the pope should be officially welcomed to Ireland'.

Results:
57% Yes 43% No.

Anyone surprised by this?

I thought that the 'No' vote was higher than I would have expected. In my head I'm assuming that his listeners are generally older people who attend mass. (I know I should never assume).

frozenfrozen

He's not really my cup of tea. Although I do normally like my tea to be brewed in a teapot orbiting the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars.

robindch

57%? No doubt they all want to say a big thanks to Ratzinger for all the hard work he's put in to protect kids:

http://www.thejournal.ie/people-should-be-grateful-to-pope-for-handling-abuse-scandal-cardinal-348429-Feb2012/

MrStuffins

57% of Joe Duffy listeners.

Which is actually an alarmingly small percentage considering the demographic of his listeners.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Yes, I am surprised. Considering it's Joe Duffy I'm surprised the figure is only 57%. So even JD fans are losing interest.

Galvasean

It would be interesting if you could split the no voters between those who say know for financial reasons and those who say no in protest of the church's actions.

RichieC

I read today somewhere a papal visit was off the table.

Surprising results though. Thats probably the breakdown of his audience between the constantly outraged ouldwans and those listening for the lols..

Blue Magic

joseph brand wrote: »

Caught 10 mins of Joe today while in the car (never listen to him).

There was a Poll, and the question was, 'whether the pope should be officially welcomed to Ireland'.

Results:
57% Yes 43% No.

Anyone surprised by this?

I thought that the 'No' vote was higher than I would have expected. In my head I'm assuming that his listeners are generally older people who attend mass. (I know I should never assume).

Not surprised. The demographic of that show would consist of a lot of church-goers too. Irrelevant visit considering the money spent and the inevitable lack of a forthcoming apology for the years of paedophilia by his institution in this country. Could pay for it himself with the riches at his disposal...



&



Also, I'd somehow be sceptical about the tourism (if any) this would attract to Ireland - other the few thousand who'll come from nearby countries on the day. Can't see it having the effect on the Phoenix Park that the Queen's visit had on the English Market in Cork City, for example. Or, indeed, Obama's visit to Moneygall!

Dades

How was the poll conducted? Web? Text?
(Are you sure it was even a JD poll?)

You'll get the younger part of his demographic voting with either of those.

Paparazzo

You get a lot of older people that were effected directly by the church and they remember when they had real power, so part of the older demographic might dislike the church even more than the younger.

Dades wrote: »

How was the poll conducted? Web? Text?
(Are you sure it was even a JD poll?)

You'll get the younger part of his demographic voting with either of those.

It was a text poll. 10 minutes, think there was 11,000 texts.

eyescreamcone

I would not welcome the Pope.
His country's agents have acted in a very unfriendly manner to our citizens on our soil.
These agents have raped our children and covered up their actions wholesale.
When confronted with their guilt they agreed to pay us some money in compensation.
This money has not been paid years later.
The agents of this foreign country want control of our schools and hospitals - they don't want to pay for this either.
Also they don't want to pay any tax on earnings in this state.
This foreign country is not a friend of ours.

Also, the human rights record of the Vatican state is questionable
- they are anti-gay
- they are anti-women

Their premier and agents promote a bizarre system of advising foreigners not to use condoms.
This would not equate to a good public health policy.

This state manufactures no products and does not engage in international trade, yet it's population seem to live in luxury. Who pays for this?

If this country wants to be taken seriously as a modern state then it's premier and agents should give more respect to real countries.

We should only retain cold diplomatic relations with this unfriendly state.

goose2005

As a young chaplain in the diocese of Essen in 1979, H. forced an 11-year-old to engage in oral sex after a camp retreat. He reportedly had the boy drink alcohol before assaulting him. There were at least three more victims in Essen but their parents reportedly decided not to press charges to avoid putting their children through the ordeal. Instead they complained to H.'s immediate superior, the parish priest of St. Andreas. That priest's handwritten report to the head of church personnel and the vicar general of the diocese of Essen states that H. had made "indecent advances" toward the children during his work in the parish.

Church officials in Essen decided not to press charges and instead arranged for their brother to enter into therapy in Munich. In the letter of transfer, written to the Bavarian diocese that Ratzinger then led, there was a clear admission that the priest had sexually assaulted children in his former parish. Munich was not left in the dark about what kind of problem was on its way to them, the diocese of Essen said last week.

The Diocesan Council, chaired by Archbishop Ratzinger, dealt with the case in Munich on Jan. 15, 1980. According to the minutes of the meeting, "Point 5d" on the agenda saw the council discussing Peter H., who had requested "accommodation and support in a Munich parsonage for a while." The request also stated that "Chaplain H. will undergo psychological therapeutic treatment."

Ratzinger Knew Police Hadn't Been Informed

A policeman's son, Ratzinger was well aware that no one had notified the police and that everything had been handled by the Church internally. Neither he nor his diocese reported the case to the authorities. Instead, a brief, succinct statement concerning the chaplain's application was entered into the minutes: "The request is granted."

Barely two weeks later, H. had been assigned to pastoral duties again. Ratzinger allegedly knew nothing of this. But his office did receive a note from his vicar-general at the time, Gerhard Gruber, concerning the chaplain's placement in the Catholic parish of St. Johannes Evangelist in Munich. Did Ratzinger overlook the memo? Gruber now says that he alone was responsible.

In the town of Grafing near Munich, H. again sexually abused several pupils. In 1986, a local court in Ebersberg in Bavaria handed out an 18-month suspended prison sentence and a 4,000 deutsche mark fine to H. He was also convicted of distributing pornographic materials.

Priest 'Always Kissed Children on the Mouth'

Church officials then simply transferred the pedophile from Grafing to Garching -- but apparently without informing the parish there of his history. Once again, children at his new place of work complained that their priest always kissed them on the mouth -- a practice they found disgusting. Mothers complained to the parish council, but nothing happened. In 2008, the first of his victims in Essen came forward: Wilfried Fesselmann, 41, was 11 at the time of the alleged abuse. The priest was transferred again, this time to his current place of residence in the town of Bad Tölz. Once again no warning was issued to the new parish, where the priest was able to conduct church services with the young people of the area. And it was not until last week that H. was finally suspended from priestly service.

And that is precisely the focus of the current discussion. What responsibility do people with knowledge of what has been done bear? And what about about the perpetrators' superiors? How could they enable pedophile priests to continue working in the Church? And what has the current pope done during his career in the Church to combat a sex problem that he is well aware of?

It was not only in Munich, but also later in Rome that Ratzinger missed countless opportunities to vigorously tackle the issue. For over 23 years -- until his election as pope -- he headed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, meaning that he was also responsible for dealing with reports of sexual abuse. From 1981, Cardinal Ratzinger exercised this power from a fortress-like palace in the Vatican, where he passed through heavy iron-studded gates every morning and every evening. Above the gates, the walls are still emblazoned with the coat of arms of the Holy Office, also known as the Inquisition, which held Galileo Galilei under arrest here and sentenced Giordano Bruno to death as a heretic.

For decades, Ratzinger accepted the fact that little attention was paid to the problem of sexual abuse. Instead he focused on reprimanding Latin American church activists who advocated liberation theology, a movement that defines the teachings of Jesus Christ differently, as well as feuding with controversial critics of the Catholic Church such as Eugen Drewermann and Hans Küng. His rare public statements during this period were dedicated to pet topics like "faith and reason."

Sounds like a standup guy.

recedite

Paparazzo wrote: »

It was a text poll. 10 minutes, think there was 11,000 texts.

There must have been lots of oulwans and oulflas shaking their sticks at the radio. :pac:

mikhail

frozenfrozen wrote: »

He's not really my cup of tea. Although I do normally like my tea to be brewed in a teapot orbiting the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars.

There's no such teapot!

fatmammycat

I was surprised and delighted at the result, perhaps we are edging away from catholic woo in this country.

Knasher

Galvasean wrote: »

It would be interesting if you could split the no voters between those who say know for financial reasons and those who say no in protest of the church's actions.

It might also be interesting if you could split the yes voters between those that say yes for religious reasons and those who just want to try egging the guy.

Daftendirekt

mikhail wrote: »

There's no such teapot!

Prove it! :pac:

Liamario

The poll is a joke.

What sort of person do you think listens to Joe Duffy and thus who do you think texted in.

Then when you consider all that, look at the results. The catholic church's days are numbered. The generations are caring less and less about religion in this country. You'll always have a few fanatics, but religion is rapidly losing any credibility.

Coriolanus

I actually wouldn't mind a visit if it were revenue neutral but that'll never happen.

recedite

We could hold him as a hostage, until the Vatican reimburses the State for all the church child abuse compensation claims.

Galvasean

Nevore wrote: »

I actually wouldn't mind a visit if it were revenue neutral but that'll never happen.

I have a morbid curiosity about it all. In one sense I'd like to see him come over if only to see what sort of reaction he'd get. Based on the RCC shying away from a visit I reckon they're a bit worried about a negative response.
Of course, I don't want the state spending yet more of the taxpayers' money on frivolous Catholic crap.

robindch

RichieC wrote: »

I read today somewhere a papal visit was off the table.

Seems so:

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Pope-Benedict-wont-visit-Ireland-for-Eurcharistic-Congress--138939289.html

Irish Central wrote:

Although Pope Benedict is actively considering an invitation to Ireland, he is not expected to travel this year, despite the 50th international Eucharistic Congress being held in Dublin in June.

In contrast to Pope John Paul II's 1979 visit, when a million people attended opening day ceremonies in Dublin, Irish bishops fear a disastrous downfall in attendance for a papal visit this year due to clerical sexual abuse scandals in Ireland. It is also believed that the church authorities in Ireland are concerned that a visit by Pope Benedict could spark wide-scale protests and detract from the Congress's program of events.

Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said the Irish church is not ready for a new papal visit. It had initially been hoped that Pope Benedict would attend the Eucharistic Congress. But Martin indicated that such a trip was unlikely this year, despite Pope Benedict's consideration and his wish that he travel to Ireland sooner rather than later. Martin highlighted a number of problems that have arisen, including the Pope's reduced traveling schedule owing to his age.

The archbishop also said a visit was unlikely until the "healing process" for victims of clerical sexual abuse is completed. After celebrating a Mass to mark World Day of the Sick, Martin said, "The Pope is in his 80s, his travel will have to be reduced and there's a very big event on the week beforehand to which he is certainly going, so we'll just wait and see."

Martin also said the Pope's arrival depended on how far along the process of healing had gone. There were "still many steps to be taken." He added, "It would require a lot of work, ensuring that people who feel wounded by the church would have the opportunity for healing, and I don't think this would be something that was imposed." Pope Benedict has personally told Martin that he was open to coming for the Eucharistic Congress and would give it "serious consideration."

Martin added, "But he said -- and this I agree with -- that his coming would have to fit in with the overall program and timetable of the renewal of the church in Ireland. Short-circuiting that program wouldn't bring the benefits that a papal visit would bring, and I am not sure that we are at that stage yet."

Tens of thousands of Catholics from home and abroad will attend the Congress. There will be 25,000 people in the RDS in Dublin daily from June 10, rising to 80,000 for the closing ceremony in Croke Park on June 17. Taoiseach (Prime Minister) Enda Kenny has said he told Martin and All-Ireland Primate Cardinal Sean Brady that the government was willing to invite Pope Benedict to Ireland, but there would not be a review of the decision to close Ireland's embassy to the Vatican.

Kenny also said people had assumed the closure of the embassy was related to his speech on the Cloyne Report last year, in which he strongly criticized the Vatican for failing to co-operate with State investigations into clerical sexual abuse. Kenny said, "Nothing could be further from the truth." Kenny added that if Pope Benedict accepted an invitation to the Congress, the government would "treat his holiness with the respect that his status and his office require." The Eucharistic Congress was last held in Ireland in 1932, when papal count John McCormack, world-famous Athlone-born tenor, sang "Panis Angelicus" to thousands who thronged Dublin's Phoenix Park.

As well as the prayers and talks at this year's Congress, there will be a range of activities, including movies, choirs, cultural exhibitions, plays, gospel music, traditional Irish music, liturgical dance, Christian rock bands, orchestras, workshops on song and other artistic expressions. Pilgrims from more than 95 countries have already registered to attend.

joseph brand

robindch wrote: »

Seems so:

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Pope-Benedict-wont-visit-Ireland-for-Eurcharistic-Congress--138939289.html

sang "Panis Angelicus"

Sounds like something else. /chuckle

his coming would have to fit in with the overall program and timetable of the renewal of the church in Ireland

He'll only come over if it's in the best interests of the church? He should be over here to apologise profusely on behalf of the church, and himself personally, (see link below). It's no good hiding out in Vatican city.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,684970,00.html

Back in 1980, even Joseph Ratzinger -- then the archbishop of Munich, and now Pope Benedict XVI -- had played a role in the decision to handle Peter H.'s pedophiliac infractions internally. No police, no state prosecutor, no trial. Therapy and brotherly love would bring this sinner back to the fold.
Events that linked Ratzinger and Peter H. decades ago are now causing their paths to cross once again. Last week, one of these two men, Peter H., was suspended from the priesthood, while the other, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a pastoral letter on clerical sexual abuse. The pope now wants to clear up these cases and aid the victims.

Is this a long-awaited turning point?

Finally, after much too much hesitation, there is now movement in the church -- at the lower level with Peter H. and at the higher level with the pope and the German Bishops' Conference. For the first time since the sex scandal erupted, church officials have indicated that they intend to tackle the problem seriously. In Bavaria, the Catholic Church now intends to report all such cases immediately to the authorities. "We all have to deal with the consequences of utter evil in the world and in the Church," says the current archbishop of Munich, Reinhard Marx. "This boil must be lanced. Everything must come out," his colleague in Bamberg, Ludwig Schick, adds. And the Bishop of Trier, Stephan Ackermann, who has been engaged by the Bishops' Conference to handle abuse cases, openly criticizes the institutions of the Church, admitting that "there have been cover-ups in a wide range of cases."

Coriolanus

Galvasean wrote: »

I have a morbid curiosity about it all. In one sense I'd like to see him come over if only to see what sort of reaction he'd get. Based on the RCC shying away from a visit I reckon they're a bit worried about a negative response.
Of course, I don't want the state spending yet more of the taxpayers' money on frivolous Catholic crap.

Same basically, I like mythology in general.

Calibos

Galvasean wrote: »

I have a morbid curiosity about it all. In one sense I'd like to see him come over if only to see what sort of reaction he'd get. Based on the RCC shying away from a visit I reckon they're a bit worried about a negative response.
Of course, I don't want the state spending yet more of the taxpayers' money on frivolous Catholic crap.

We'll get to see something similar this year anyway won't we.

ie. the Papers will show a picture of the Eucharistic congress in the Pheonix Park in 19 30 whatever with people as far as the eye could see. Did the entire population of the country turn up in Dublin for that one? Beside it will be a picture of Croker with a couple of thousand old people, boggers and Travellers in one corner

recedite

"We all have to deal with the consequences of utter evil in the world and in the Church," says the current archbishop of Munich, Reinhard Marx."


Must be a big compo claim on the way so....

joseph brand

recedite wrote: »

"We all have to deal with the consequences of utter evil in the world and in the Church," says the current archbishop of Munich, Reinhard Marx."


Must be a big compo claim on the way so....

I heard a guy say, in some video on youtube, that the RCC took in some 96 Billion in 2010, I think. I'm sure he said the figure came from the Wall Street Journal.

Can anyone else find any figures for what they took in, or what they are worth? It seems impossible.

iguana

It is worth bearing in mind that a lot of Catholic people really don't like the current pope. A few years ago some of my nana's friends were planning a trip to Rome and the Vatican and some were planning a trip to Graceland. One of my highly Catholic nana's reasons for preferring to go to Graceland was that she might have liked to have seen the John Paul, but just didn't like Benedict.

She still prefers Elvis over both of them though.

Hotblack Desiato

If he were to set foot on our soil, and were not the head of a bogus imaginary state, he'd be arrested for criminal conspiracy and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

Unlikely as it may now seem, I fear that moves are happening behind the scenes and our government has said they will invite him if asked!

"No pope here" should be the slogan of all Irish people whose eyes are open to the crimes of the Roman Catholic Church.

goose2005

joseph brand wrote: »

I heard a guy say, in some video on youtube, that the RCC took in some 96 Billion in 2010, I think. I'm sure he said the figure came from the Wall Street Journal.

Can anyone else find any figures for what they took in, or what they are worth? It seems impossible.

The church's finances are quite Byzantine - this is how orders can be too poor to pay compo, but dioceses can own enormous amounts of prime real estate.

robindch

joseph brand wrote: »

I heard a guy say, in some video on youtube, that the RCC took in some 96 Billion in 2010, I think. I'm sure he said the figure came from the Wall Street Journal.

The religious industries in the USA turn over around $100 billion per year, tax free. I'm not sure what the RCC's global turnover is, but bearing in mind that there are around 600,000 professional catholic religious, a figure between $10 and $100 billion doesn't seem unreasonable. The Vatican's turnover is around €250 million.

eyescreamcone

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I would not welcome the Pope.
His country's agents have acted in a very unfriendly manner to our citizens on our soil.
These agents have raped our children and covered up their actions wholesale.
When confronted with their guilt they agreed to pay us some money in compensation.
This money has not been paid years later.
The agents of this foreign country want control of our schools and hospitals - they don't want to pay for this either.
Also they don't want to pay any tax on earnings in this state.
This foreign country is not a friend of ours.

Also, the human rights record of the Vatican state is questionable
- they are anti-gay
- they are anti-women

Their premier and agents promote a bizarre system of advising foreigners not to use condoms.
This would not equate to a good public health policy.

This state manufactures no products and does not engage in international trade, yet it's population seem to live in luxury. Who pays for this?

If this country wants to be taken seriously as a modern state then it's premier and agents should give more respect to real countries.

We should only retain cold diplomatic relations with this unfriendly state.

Maybe I was being too harsh earlier

I'd welcome Premier Ratzinger if he made an apology in his speech at Dublin airport, and then proceeded to hand over to Enda a giant lotto sized cheque with plenty of 00000s on it.

After that he could head off to his fancy dress party, hang out with his homies, look up to the sky and play the wishing and magic biscuit games.
Party on - whatever floats your boat!!!

It would be a great photo opportunity
Enda and the two Joes and the massive cheque (in both senses)!!!
Obviously we'd need somebody from KPMG to referee as usual

Then maybe we could all start afresh with religious classes held after school and hospitals run by fellows without a religious bent (are you allowed to say that?)
Oh and the Angelus stopped too.

But we want that cheque!!!