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Bike on Dublin Bus?
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05-02-2012 1:45pm#1
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When I lived in the states all the buses had these bike racks on the front. It was a major pain in the back side when some clown would hail the bus down and spend a few minuites trying to put the shagging thing on the rack, get off 3 or 4 stops later and spend another few minutes getting it off whilst you are left dumbfounded as to why the lazy ba****d didn't just cycle.
Cyclists should just stick to trains.0 -
. . . . . . . . .Bike in a Bag - That's what you want!
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. . . . . . . . .Comes with 16" wheels, and a Bag of course
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http://www.bicycles4u.com/16-6.html0 -
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When I lived in the states all the buses had these bike racks on the front. It was a major pain in the back side when some clown would hail the bus down and spend a few minuites trying to put the shagging thing on the rack, get off 3 or 4 stops later and spend another few minutes getting it off whilst you are left dumbfounded as to why the lazy ba****d didn't just cycle.
Cyclists should just stick to trains.
In fairness the bike lane is closed in the photo:D
True yeah that'd be annoying alright loading and unloading a bike.0 -
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When I lived in the states all the buses had these bike racks on the front. It was a major pain in the back side when some clown would hail the bus down and spend a few minuites trying to put the shagging thing on the rack, get off 3 or 4 stops later and spend another few minutes getting it off whilst you are left dumbfounded as to why the lazy ba****d didn't just cycle.
Cyclists should just stick to trains.
Takes a few second:
And if needed / if there were problems, it could be restricted to off-peak.0 -
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Takes a few second:
And if needed / if there were problems, it could be restricted to off-peak.
No, it all looks well and good in the videos but you are forgetting that the general traveling public are morans.
The problems these bike racks have for the morans who use them regularly and like to delay regular fare paying passengers are:
1. Although most Bus drivers in the US are city or state employees they can lose their jobs if someone complains and many drivers are part time workers. Therefore they are more tolerant, patient and helpful than your average Dublin Bus driver so the words "Would you ever f**k off?" are never said when they should be.
2. People don't read signs or follow directions well, so a sticker saying "Squeeze Gently to Release" is like Chinese writing to some people.
3. When the bike rack is full people will still try and place their bicycle on the rack and will argue their case to the driver when he tells them to get it off and wait for the next bus.
4. In traffic junkies like to steal bikes of the front of buses leading to the owner of the bike to call the cops and delay the bus.
5. some people are incapable of following the simplest direction and boundaries of common sense and don't put the bicycle on correctly and although it may appear to be on the rack correctly to the driver its not the case when the bike goes rolling off the rack on the freeway.
6. Some people who ride bikes don't have the strength to lift them. This leads to a sad struggle between person and bike leading to the eventual intervention of another commuter.
I could go on and on. This is not a good idea for Dublin. Things like this are never that simple0 -
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markpb while I totally agree with your sentiment, I have to say I think this is an awful idea for a high capacity city bus service like Dublin Bus.
The main objective of DB should be to reduce dwell times, nit increase them.
It might be suitable for Bus Eireann commuter services that have less frequent stops.We also have to remember that American city buses travel much more slowly than the Irish fleet of city buses with many limited to 30mph or less, put these on Irish buses and they will need retaining straps as well as padlocks and security guards travelling on the front of buses to prevent children from climbing on them.
Oh, please, stop with the excuses.
Bike racks on LA's orange line BRT with a ridership of +25k per day on this one line and buses which get to or over 55MPH...
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That is a lovely three door bus on very wide straight streets without the Irish element which includes speed ramps, tight corners, illegal parking, double parking, parking at bus stops etc etc and that articulated bus looks very short by the Irish standard, remember we are not americans and this is not Los Angeles.Oh, please, stop with the excuses.
Bike racks on LA's orange line BRT with a ridership of +25k per day on this one line and buses which get to or over 55MPH...0 -
That is a lovely three door bus on very wide straight streets without the Irish element which includes speed ramps, tight corners, illegal parking, double parking, parking at bus stops etc etc and that articulated bus looks very short by the Irish standard, remember we are not americans and this is not Los Angeles.
I was replying to the points of speed and capacity alone.
As for the problems of speed bumps, illegal parking, double parking, parking at bus stops -- these all need to be solved one way or another. If corners or speed bumps are a problem (I don't think many would be), then the racks can be locked out of use on routes with those issues.
Or maybe it's all just another reason to get rid of most of Dublin Bus' routes when their contract is up and replace most of it with BRT (as the NTA is looking into).Did you even read his post? He listed the reasons it doesn't work in the US cities he has experience of and based on that extrapolated it would be just as problematic in Dublin.
His points are nonsense. Bike racks have become more and more popular across the US -- expanding from city to city, to include full fleets and some cities are/have even replaced full fleets with two bike racks with three bike racks!
But, fine, I'll also rip his points apart bit by bit, because all it is is a line of weak excuses...The problems these bike racks have for the morans who use them regularly and like to delay regular fare paying passengers are:
The users of the bike racks are regular fare paying passengers as much as users of prams and wheelchairs are the same.1. Although most Bus drivers in the US are city or state employees they can lose their jobs if someone complains and many drivers are part time workers. Therefore they are more tolerant, patient and helpful than your average Dublin Bus driver so the words "Would you ever f**k off?" are never said when they should be.
There's no way drivers should be speaking to passengers like that in any case.
It's like saying we should have never gotten Leap because drivers don't like it.2. People don't read signs or follow directions well, so a sticker saying "Squeeze Gently to Release" is like Chinese writing to some people.
They'll get use to it as people have in the US.3. When the bike rack is full people will still try and place their bicycle on the rack and will argue their case to the driver when he tells them to get it off and wait for the next bus.
Sounds like we need to get rid of wheelchair/pram spaces as well? :rolleyes:4. In traffic junkies like to steal bikes of the front of buses leading to the owner of the bike to call the cops and delay the bus.
And the bikes would end up in the river like what happened with Dublin Bikes... oh, wait... :rolleyes:5. some people are incapable of following the simplest direction and boundaries of common sense and don't put the bicycle on correctly and although it may appear to be on the rack correctly to the driver its not the case when the bike goes rolling off the rack on the freeway.
Does not seem to be a problem in the US... anyway this point seems a lot like an add on to point two rather than a point in its self.6. Some people who ride bikes don't have the strength to lift them. This leads to a sad struggle between person and bike leading to the eventual intervention of another commuter.
Again, a non problem in the US.We have several threads on here with people arguing points on how to speed up dwell times and you think adding this facility which will randomly create extra delay for the sake of a tiny minority who want to bring a bike is a good thing?
Edit: Four points:- It's government policy to promote cycling.
- It takes a few seconds to put a bike on a rack and often other people would be boarding in that time.
- If it's a real issue only allow it outside peak times, view it as a way of getting more people on buses at lower demand times.
- If it's such a tiny minority you have nothing to worry about!
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I was replying to the points of speed and capacity alone.
As for the problems of speed bumps, illegal parking, double parking, parking at bus stops -- these all need to be solved one way or another. If corners or speed bumps are a problem (I don't think many would be), then the racks can be locked out of use on routes with those issues.
Or maybe it's all just another reason to get rid of most of Dublin Bus' routes when their contract is up and replace most of it with BRT (as the NTA is looking into).
BRT, really? Practically all infrastructure investement has ground to a halt but you think a completely new network of segregated BRT routes is a realistic prospect? And you call other people's posts nonsense.His points are nonsense. Bike racks have become more and more popular across the US -- expanding from city to city, to include full fleets and some cities are/have even replaced full fleets with two bike racks with three bike racks!
But, fine, I'll also rip his points apart bit by bit, because all it is is a line of weak excuses...
The users of the bike racks are regular fare paying passengers as much as users of prams and wheelchairs are the same.
And pushchair users never cause delays on buses in Dublin. :rolleyes:
You can sarky face all the points you like (see I can do it too) but that doesn't make them wrong.
Much of the issues with the current bus service is the poor journey times and the idea that more time wasting extras are added to the service while the core service is still far from perfect is rubbish.
Any regular passenger can tell you that the biggest delays are caused by a tiny minority of people who are incapable of getting themselves on the bus and paying their fare quickly. The suggestion that these same types will not avail of bike transport and faff about with no consideration of anyone else is illogical in the extreme, there is no shortage of examples of bike users in the city that are completely clueless and selfish.Edit: Four points:- It's government policy to promote cycling.
- It takes a few seconds to put a bike on a rack and often other people would be boarding in that time.
- If it's a real issue only allow it outside peak times, view it as a way of getting more people on buses at lower demand times.
- If it's such a tiny minority you have nothing to worry about!
1. Transporting a bike on a motorised vehicle is not actually cycling.
2. The amount of time anything takes very much depends on the person doing it, it should only take a second or two to deposit the correct change into the farebox but somehow certain individuals manage to turn that into a major drama.
3. The majority of bike use is in peak hours so that restricting it to off peak basically means rolling out another grand scheme for dubious benefit.
4. If you are the person whose journey is delayed by someone faffing about with a bike it will be something to worry about.
What needs to be done is to make the core service as good as it can be to make public transport as competitive and attractive as possible for the majority, not thinking of ways to dilute it's effectiveness in order to accomodate every whim someone can think of.
The vast majority of city routes cover distances that can be covered by cycle anyway.0 -
BRT, really? Practically all infrastructure investement has ground to a halt but you think a completely new network of segregated BRT routes is a realistic prospect? And you call other people's posts nonsense.
Yes, BRT is realistic in the short to mid term.
Dublin Bus' contract is up in 2014 and switching to tendering out the main routes as mostly BRT would likely save on the operational spend and most importantly could provide a higher capasity and high frequency public transport system -- and some local routes -- for less of an operational subsidy.
The main problem with BRT is taking the space and priority from cars -- providing it on current roads is cheap and can be done cheaper depending on the way it's configured.And pushchair users never cause delays on buses in Dublin. :rolleyes:
I'd a feeling you might come out with that.
Anybody giving out about prams on buses is (1) selfish, and that's fine, they only care about them self, (2) blowing a small issue with a few people out of proportion, and/or (3) fooling them self they care about a good bus service as part of a good transport network. You can't care about the provision of a good bus service when you don't care about the provision making the bus useful to people at any stage of their lives (ie when parents need to use prams etc).You can sarky face all the points you like (see I can do it too) but that doesn't make them wrong.
No the sarky text which goes along with the sarky face is what makes the points wrong.Much of the issues with the current bus service is the poor journey times and the idea that more time wasting extras are added to the service while the core service is still far from perfect is rubbish.
Any regular passenger can tell you that the biggest delays are caused by a tiny minority of people who are incapable of getting themselves on the bus and paying their fare quickly. The suggestion that these same types will not avail of bike transport and faff about with no consideration of anyone else is illogical in the extreme, there is no shortage of examples of bike users in the city that are completely clueless and selfish.
The problem is if we went by your logical there would be no prams, wheelchairs, or any large luggage allowed on buses just in case there's a hold up.
Now that ticketing is on the way to be sorted out, everybody needs to stop kidding them self and thinking small measures will do much.
The hard issues need to be tackled, including: [1] Greater priority to or towards a BRT system -- and the passive enforcement which is very much so lacking now; [2] tendering the improved routes out with a provision higher levels of services must be provided on these improved routes [3] disallowing taxis without passengers in bus lanes at least at peak times;1. Transporting a bike on a motorised vehicle is not actually cycling.
2. The amount of time anything takes very much depends on the person doing it, it should only take a second or two to deposit the correct change into the farebox but somehow certain individuals manage to turn that into a major drama.
3. The majority of bike use is in peak hours so that restricting it to off peak basically means rolling out another grand scheme for dubious benefit.
4. If you are the person whose journey is delayed by someone faffing about with a bike it will be something to worry about.- Loads of things that are "not actually cycling" are good for the promotion of cycling see the national cycle policy. Saying there would be no benefit to cycling is like saying there's no benefit to public transport if there's better walking permeability including shorter walking routes to public transport stops. Or put it another way: The way taxation of car use is structure is not a clear public transport issue, but if taxation was solely on use of car (ie tax only on fuel) use then the bus becomes more attractive option.
- Further to the points I've already made on this (ie you can't decide provide something or not based on just a few people): the problem with the farebox and people paying with cash has largely gone without any proper attempts to fix it for years (ie keeping cash fares attractive, not having pre-paid tickets to suit more causal users etc) and the main attempt to fix the cash fare problem (Leap) was delayed for years because of a large number of factors, but one of the main factors seem seems to be Dublin Bus' opposition to the system and them dragging their feet on it. But I'm ranting off topic here.
- I said if it's an issue restrict it to off peak -- I should have said if it turns out to be an issue then restrict it to off peak. But it should be tried first. Just like having bikes on trains, even off peak it has huge benefits for cycling and for bus use, these include: Extending reach of public transport beyond short walking distances (at the same time extending the range of the bicycle for those always or sometimes unwilling or unable to cycle the whole distance); getting more passengers on board off-peak; and transporting people's bicycles further than they usually need to without needing a car.
- Again: You can't provide or not provide something based on a delay which only happens with a tiny minority of people.
0 - Loads of things that are "not actually cycling" are good for the promotion of cycling see the national cycle policy. Saying there would be no benefit to cycling is like saying there's no benefit to public transport if there's better walking permeability including shorter walking routes to public transport stops. Or put it another way: The way taxation of car use is structure is not a clear public transport issue, but if taxation was solely on use of car (ie tax only on fuel) use then the bus becomes more attractive option.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DypIMLpoOB8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFmJBUvrlcc
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