savings in a marriage

cliona8969

could someone pleas explain to me how finances work in a marriage.
my main question is relating to savings etc. say a woman who has saved up 50,000 euro before getting married gets married to a man who is terrible with saving money. fast forward 10 years and the man is in debt of over 200,000 euro. if they were to divorce, the typical law is that everything is split in half am i correct? so how much of her 50,000 euro savings would she be entitled to? would the woman end up in debt too? would she end up not in debt but with zero euro? would she end up with her 50,000 euro still or would she end up with 25,000 euro?

Storminateacup

What's yours is mine and what's mine is my own, tbh

KittyeeTrix

Hi OP, even though I'm married myself I have no clue how this would work. There is a Legal discussion here where you may get an answer.:)

Legal Discussion Forum: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

Ickle Magoo

Moved from tLL.

Think this is the best place to get the answer to this one, OP. :cool:

page1

It isnt really as straighforward as that. First of all was the savings kept in her own account in her name only or did she transfer them into a joint account? Has the husband access to the savings? has he added to them or taken money out?

As regards the loans, in what manner were these loans taken out? Are these bank loans in his name or is her name on the papers? If so she is jointly and severally liable for the loans. Are they secured or unsecured loans, do they cover assests that may be sold to cover the loans?
There are so many factors in play here that is diffcult to answer your question without specifics.

Procrastastudy

Someone will inevitably say it so I'll get in there early - get a solicitor! If indeed you are in this situation and not just curious. Especially because if you're still married at least you'll both be paying for it

aujopimur

Running away money ?.

Gareth2011

I would have thought that if you didn't sign an agreetment before you got married (whats yours is yours and whats mine is mine etc) There is a word for it but can't think of it right now. I know if my wife had savings before we got married and we ended up getting divorced I wouldn't try to take half of her savings if she had them before hand and they were purely her savings and the husband didn't put anything into them.

But as was said go to solictor even maybe try to get free advice from citizens infomation. But in the end if he or she is trying to get savings that they haven't saved then you will need a solicitor.

sarah88

Gareth2011 wrote: »

I would have thought that if you didn't sign an agreetment before you got married (whats yours is yours and whats mine is mine etc) There is a word for it but can't think of it right now. .

prenuptial agreement?

Midnight Sundance

sarah88 wrote: »

Gareth2011 wrote: »

I would have thought that if you didn't sign an agreetment before you got married (whats yours is yours and whats mine is mine etc) There is a word for it but can't think of it right now. .

prenuptial agreement?

Are prenups not illegal or uninforcable in ireland??

Delancey

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

Are prenups not illegal or uninforcable in ireland??

Yup , not worth the paper they're written on at the moment though that may change.

Ken.

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

Are prenups not illegal or uninforcable in ireland??

The legal status of pre-nups in Ireland. There is currently nothing in Irish Law to stop persons intending to marry from a signing a Pre-Nuptial Agreement. However equally there is nothing in Irish Law which obliges the Court to enforce such Agreements. A study group on Pre-Nuptial Agreements was established in December 2006. Its terms of reference was to study and report on the operation of the law since the introduction of Divorce in 1996 with respect to Pre-Nuptial Agreements, taking into account constitutional requirements. The study group was chaired by Ms Ingle Clissman SC and included Legal Practitioners and academics as well as representatives of the Attorney General’s Office. The study groups core recommendation was that separate provision should be made in both the Family Law Act 1995 and the Family Law Divorce Act 1996 to provide that the Courts be required to have regard to existing Pre-Nuptial Agreements when making ancillary reliefOrders in Judicial Separation and Divorce Proceedings. The Report made recommendations on formalities necessary for the proper making of Pre-Nuptial Agreements so that the parties making such Agreements would be fully informed and protected.

These recommendations in brief were that: A.The Agreement should be in written form.B.The parties should each have received separate legal advice as to the effect and meaning of the Agreement.C.Each of the parties should have made disclosure of all relevant financial information.D.The Agreement should be executed not less than 28 days before the marriage. In summary, Pre-Nuptial Agreements in Ireland at present have no express force in law, with the exception of Section 113 of the Succession Act 1965. The importance to be attached to Pre-Nuptial Agreements will be determined case by case basis by the Court, provided the recommendations of the study group are implemented.

Gareth2011

sarah88 wrote: »

prenuptial agreement?

Bingo thanks

Gareth2011

lucyfur09 wrote: »

The legal status of pre-nups in Ireland. There is currently nothing in Irish Law to stop persons intending to marry from a signing a Pre-Nuptial Agreement. However equally there is nothing in Irish Law which obliges the Court to enforce such Agreements.

Typical Irish law. Yeah you can sign it thinking it will save you but if push comes to shove its not worth a sh*t because we don't have to enforce it if we (judge) don't want too :mad:.

Ken.

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Typical Irish law. Yeah you can sign it thinking it will save you but if push comes to shove its not worth a sh*t because we don't have to enforce it if we (judge) don't want too :mad:.

Exactly, I'm no legal expert but my reading of it is its like the old chestnut "verbal contract,not worth the paper its written on".

Procrastastudy

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Typical Irish law. Yeah you can sign it thinking it will save you but if push comes to shove its not worth a sh*t because we don't have to enforce it if we (judge) don't want too :mad:.

That's hardly typical Irish law, there are ways to distinguish a case in the common law and not follow it however this process, is on the whole, a good thing.

lucyfur09 wrote: »

Exactly, I'm no legal expert but my reading of it is its like the old chestnut "verbal contract,not worth the paper its written on".

Nothing wrong with a verbal contract - its generally where people try and amend a written contract by verbal agreement that problems arise. That or one or both of the parties are liars - bit that's not "the law's" fault.

Why are pre-nups not allowed btw? I would think they would just fall under the normal rules on contract? Is it an unconscionable bargain thing or just that marriage laws override the agreement?

ResearchWill

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

That's hardly typical Irish law, there are ways to distinguish a case in the common law and not follow it however this process, is on the whole, a good thing.



Nothing wrong with a verbal contract - its generally where people try and amend a written contract by verbal agreement that problems arise. That or one or both of the parties are liars - bit that's not "the law's" fault.

Why are pre-nups not allowed btw? I would think they would just fall under the normal rules on contract? Is it an unconscionable bargain thing or just that marriage laws override the agreement?

From my little understanding of family war (sorry law) and pre nups there is as has already been stated no prohibition as such. But as our divorce laws require that before divorce is granted the judge is satisfied that proper provision has been made, for all the parties. So if a pre-nup does not in the judges mind provide proper provision he will ignore it, on the other hand if he believes it is fair then he will take judicial notice of it. Lawyers as a rule don't like uncertainty so on the above basis would advise against a pre-nup.

The constitution states

A Court designated by law may grant a dissolution of marriage where, but only where, it is satisfied that—
i. at the date of the institution of the proceedings, the spouses have lived apart from one another for a period of, or periods amounting to, at least four years during the previous five years,
ii. there is no reasonable prospect of a reconciliation between the spouses,
iii. such provision as the Court considers proper having regard to the circumstances exists or will be made for the spouses, any children of either or both of them and any other person prescribed by law, and
iv. any further conditions prescribed by law are complied with.

Kosseegan

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Why are pre-nups not allowed btw? I would think they would just fall under the normal rules on contract? Is it an unconscionable bargain thing or just that marriage laws override the agreement?

Pre-nups are considered to be contrary to public policy. Marriage is for life so to be starting off by what to do in the event of early termination is considered to undermine the institution.

aujopimur

In laymans terms,Prenups are ok as long as proper provision is made for the other party, this is pretty vague.

Windwalker

Not sure if this is relevant but when my partner and I were buying our house I had more money than he had. I paid the depoist on the house and we then furnished it together. So when we were doing all the legal side of things we had the solicitor add a clause that stated if we seperated, provided that the house sold at a profit (fat chance now), I would receive 2/3rds of the excess up to the amount I had initially contributed. We both signed it and the solicitor seemed satisfied that this was legal. We have since married so no idea if it would still stand up...

locomo

Kosseegan wrote: »

Marriage is for life so to be starting off by what to do in the event of early termination is considered to undermine the institution.

Cars are designed to stay on tbetween the ditches but by preparing what to do in the event of a ditch crash ( designing and putting in airbags etc ) is not considered to undermine the mode of transport.

Keepan Eye

I see these Posts are quite old --Just wondering -- If a farm is in a family for 5 or 6 generations or more is it possible that it could be passed out of the family if Divorce occurs? Is there anyway for a farmer to protect it ? As it stands it would appear best for a farmer not to marry. ? Who inherits then of course. As I understand it, in court it depends on the humour or bias of a judge who gets what. As a rule a woman with children will get the bulk and the husband goes into a flat but must continue to pay his dole or pay over to the wife.?
Its all very confusing --

aujopimur

Windwalker wrote: »

Not sure if this is relevant but when my partner and I were buying our house I had more money than he had. I paid the depoist on the house and we then furnished it together. So when we were doing all the legal side of things we had the solicitor add a clause that stated if we seperated, provided that the house sold at a profit (fat chance now), I would receive 2/3rds of the excess up to the amount I had initially contributed. We both signed it and the solicitor seemed satisfied that this was legal. We have since married so no idea if it would still stand up...

No prenups in Ireland.

Uno my Uno.

aujopimur wrote: »

No prenups in Ireland.

Prenuptial agreements are not enforceable in this jurisdiction but in the event of a separation or divorce the Judge may still give consideration to one on the basis that it showed the clear intention of the parties at the time of their marriage. If I were advising a hypothetical couple who were getting hypothetical married and they felt it was an issue I would advise them to execute a prenup. It makes sense on the simple basis that if they do a court may consider it, if they don't the court can't.