Absolutely ridiclous

wildfowler94

Did any see this months shooters digest in which it says you can no longer use decoys to shoot any type of crows or magpies? only pigeons ducks and geese?:mad:
Did you ever hear such ****e?:mad: Wildlife laws gone mad!!!:mad:

Spunk84

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Did any see this months shooters digest in which it says you can no longer use decoys to shoot any type of crows or magpies? only pigeons ducks and geese?:mad:
Did you ever hear such ****e?:mad: Wildlife laws gone mad!!!:mad:

seen it too:mad: load of sh£te

Birdnuts

Silly stuff allright:rolleyes: - I've noticed though that crows take an interest in others that have entered a ladder trap and can be attracted in that way to the gun. Same goes for magpies in Larsson traps - I've takin out a good few that way over the years. Plus pigeon decoys over stubble bring in a fair few crows too.

garyc007

thats ridiculous.and i was just going to get some decoys for it. oh well guess il have to use another method!

Birdnuts

garyc007 wrote: »

thats ridiculous.and i was just going to get some decoys for it. oh well guess il have to use another method!

Unless I'm reading the derogation below wrong, you can still decoy magpies and Hooded Crows.

http://www.npws.ie/media/npws/publications/legaldocs/Declaration%20for%20Leinster%20Sept%202011.pdf

PS: Derogations are the same for all the provinces

4200fps

If it's true why would they stop it? Its not as if its an extremely effective method. This country is Europe's finest for the stupidest laws

4200fps

Birdnuts wrote: »

Unless I'm reading the derogation below wrong, you can still decoy magpies and Hooded Crows.

http://www.npws.ie/media/npws/publications/legaldocs/Declaration%20for%20Leinster%20Sept%202011.pdf

PS: Derogations are the same for all the provinces

Just after reading it. Reads to me you can use decoys. I'd never believe anything out of shooters digest. seen untrue crap on it before. Its a magazine that was supposed to be good years back but useless now. They said on it swift and 22-250 were illegal to shoot deer with and they were wrong. They need to get the facts before they publish anymore

cavan shooter

my reading is the same...

landkeeper

illegal to decoy rooks and jackdaws but not magpies and grey crows would be mine

Gonzor

cavan shooter wrote: »

my reading is the same...

To be honest that document went over my head

however my reading is that you can decoy them for a larson trap. But you cant decoy for shooting.

J.R.

4200fps wrote: »

Just after reading it. Reads to me you can use decoys. I'd never believe anything out of shooters digest. seen untrue crap on it before. Its a magazine that was supposed to be good years back but useless now. They said on it swift and 22-250 were illegal to shoot deer with and they were wrong. They need to get the facts before they publish anymore

In the method of control it states shooting with a rifle, shotgun or cage trap (including use of decoys)

To me it reads that you can use a decoy (live bird) in a cage trap to attract other magpies / greycrows.

Birdnuts

J.R. wrote: »

To me it reads that you can use a decoy (live bird) in a cage trap to attract other magpies / greycrows.

It doesn't specify whether the decoy is live or not - so presumebly an artificial one is ok. Since it is already legal to shoot these species I can see no legal reason why hoodies/mags attracted into the vicinity of such a decoy can't be dispatched with a rifle/shotgun.

Grizzly 45

landkeeper wrote: »

illegal to decoy rooks and jackdaws but not magpies and grey crows would be mine

Proably missed them,but aSFIK maggs and rooks dont generally decoy well anyway.

J.R.

Correspondence from N.P.W.S.

Birdnuts

J.R. wrote: »

Correspondence from N.P.W.S.

Still appears to be somewhat in conflict with the exact wording of the official derogations I posted earlier, which AFAIK are given precidence over primary legislation - I guess its simply one of those "grey" areas

Farmlife

you could always paint your pigeon decoy to a darker shade

surely the npws officers aren't racist towards the colour of our bird decoys

Sparks

Any derogation would overrule the ban Dr O'Keefe's talking about as far as I know. That's rather the point of derogations.

wildfowler94

So what is it you mean by that?

Sparks

I mean that I don't think his point is correct. When he says "an offence to use... a decoy... other than pursuant to and in accordance with a licence or permit granted by the Minister", that bit in bold is what the derogation is. Or at least, that's my understanding of it, and it seems to be the NARGC's legal advice as well judging by their past statements on derogations.

wildfowler94

Yeah I taught that too? as in if damaging crops it was legal to decoy?

meathstevie

I'd be with Sparks on this one.

The normal situation being that you can't but given that there's a derogation in place and the conditions of the derogation are fullfilled where you shoot crows you can use decoys. If you're shooting crows for sport you can't, if you're shooting under the conditions of the derogation you can.

I'd be careful with live decoys or using a live bird in such a way that it effectively becomes a decoy.

J.R.

I checked with Des Crofton, N.A.R.G.C. - crow decoys not allowed...only pigeon, duck & geese.

Vegeta

J.R. wrote: »

I checked with Des Crofton, N.A.R.G.C. - crow decoys not allowed...only pigeon, duck & geese.

Did he mention if he was going to try and lobby for change to it?

J.R.

Vegeta wrote: »

Did he mention if he was going to try and lobby for change to it?

No

Birdnuts

Sparks wrote: »

I mean that I don't think his point is correct. When he says "an offence to use... a decoy... other than pursuant to and in accordance with a licence or permit granted by the Minister", that bit in bold is what the derogation is. Or at least, that's my understanding of it, and it seems to be the NARGC's legal advice as well judging by their past statements on derogations.

A derogation is a general instrument (signed by a minister) which is used to supercede certain defined elements of primary legislation such as the EU Birds directive/Wildlife Act. Permits/Licences are different in that they requires a named individual to apply to a state body(in this case the NPWS) to engage in a normally prohibited activity eg. a licence to move bats from a building that needs rennovating etc..

PS: At the risk of labouring the point I still think the dergation mentioned on page 1 of this thread appears to allow decoying of Hoodies and Mags for shooting purposes - other crows might be a different matter but its all a bit nonsensical anyway given that you can legally decoy the likes of pigeons, who's feeding in stubbles often attracts crows in any case.:rolleyes:

Hunter21

So what's the story with a newly seeded field an I shoot a few crows and set them up in the field to attract more crows to my section of the field and shoot them?

And also what about shooting them as they are coming into grain sheds? And I leave a few purposely placed in the yard as 'decoys' to attract them?

meathstevie

Hunter21 wrote: »

So what's the story with a newly seeded field an I shoot a few crows and set them up in the field to attract more crows to my section of the field and shoot them?

And also what about shooting them as they are coming into grain sheds? And I leave a few purposely placed in the yard as 'decoys' to attract them?

A newly planted field is very straightforward; crop protection.

As for grain sheds; bird ****e in a grainstore seriously devalues the stored product to the point of making it useless so there's an economical necessity for pest control there as well.

J.R.

Hunter21 wrote: »

So what's the story with a newly seeded field an I shoot a few crows and set them up in the field to attract more crows to my section of the field and shoot them?

And also what about shooting them as they are coming into grain sheds? And I leave a few purposely placed in the yard as 'decoys' to attract them?

Can't see any problem with that - no mention of prohibiting use of real dead crows as decoys.