Rules of The Road - Double Standards?

JupiterKid

Over the past 10 years or so, the Gardai have been enforcing the rules of the road much more vigoursly than before - especially with respect to speeding (though where they catch speeding motorists is often debatable in terms of safety), drink driving, tax and insurance and other matters. And pretty much rightly so.

So it angers me to read that a Detective Garda crashed his unmarked garda car on the M50 motorway after spending an afternoon in the pub with colleagues watching a rugby match, stank of booze according to the motorist whose vehicle he collided with, left the scene before he could be breathalysed and now seems to have the support of his colleagues in the case which is being heard.

This smacks to me of some memebrs of the Gardai who don't think that they rules and standards of the road that they enforce simply don't apply to them.:mad:

Garda in pub before crash

TOM TUITE, Irish Times

A "top detective" spent an afternoon watching a rugby match in a pub before an unmarked Garda car he was driving crashed on the M50 motorway, a court has heard.

Det Garda Kevin Keys, who is attached to Mountjoy station in Dublin, admits he lost control of the car which was involved in a collision on the evening February 6, 2010.

However, he has pleaded not guilty at Dublin District Court to dangerous driving and taking the unmarked Ford Mondeo without authorisation from his garda station.

Gareth Wooster told Judge Conal Gibbons that at about 7.50 pm he had been driving his Hyundai Sante Fe 4X4 along the motorway when to his left the maroon Ford Mondeo, which was driven by Det Gda Keys, approached junction 11. The Mondeo driver attempted to enter the exit which was cordoned off with traffic cones but then came back on to the M50.

/MOD SNIP: Please don't quote full articles and provide a link to the original article.

gurramok

This won't end well, expect to be labelled a Garda basher by the PC brigade OP. Somehow Gardai ain't human when it comes to obeying laws.

gcgirl

It's completely wrong he was a danger to people on the road

myflipflops

I'd wait to see if he gets off before I make any judgements.

AngryBollix

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement officers.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

This won't end well, expect to be labelled a Garda basher by the PC brigade OP. Somehow Gardai ain't human when it comes to obeying laws.

PC brigade mention invalidates the rest of your post! After 10 posts maybe valid, first reply, looks dumb.

Seems a "whiff" of a bit of covering up from some Guards, giving vague answers, but, they tend to do that anyway under questioning. Defending solicitor asks a question, Guard answers "it's possible", seems pretty standard.

Other Guards seem more forthright.

I'd expect him to be suspended without pay by the Guards, awaiting the outcome of the case because this is extremely serious for a Guard, I'd say more serious than the Jim McDaid case. If he is convicted, and he is entitled to a defence, the book should be thrown at him. He knew the gravity of it when saying "I'm f**cked" and that should be reflected in the sentence, if any.

AngryBollix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_53g9m0hVQ

JupiterKid

What angers me is not so much that the Garda detective went to the pub and drank with his colleagues on his duty time or even that he got into his car and drove off (which was completely out of order).

It is that his colleagues in the force allowed him to do so, that he was even accompanied by another Garda in the car and did not do the decent thing and turn himself in to be arrested and breathalysed.

Motorist

I wonder how normal this behaviour was for Garda Kevin Keys - drinking on the job and then driving a garda vehicle. Was this routine for him, and did he just get caught out on this one occasion when he crashed his car.

Chuck Stone

However, he agreed with defence solicitor Dara Robinson that it was possible Det Garda Keys had been drinking shandies, as well as water and cups of coffee. He was also aware that his colleague had a meal at the pub and that a drink had been accidentally spilled on him there.

I think I would laugh out loud if I was on jury duty and heard this.

JupiterKid

The story concocted by this Detective Garda's lawyer beggars belief. So a drink accidentally spilt on him while he was at tge pub watching tge rugby match whilst supposedly in duty - and as a result he became intoxicated and crashed his unmarked Garda car on the M50.

OKaaaay.....

KiwiG

BUT he was convicted of dangerous driving Wednesday and has 14 days to appeal in which the case goes to the high court and we start all over again. two steps forward one step back?

KiwiG

KiwiG wrote: »

BUT he was convicted of dangerous driving Wednesday and has 14 days to appeal in which the case goes to the high court and we start all over again. two steps forward one step back?

Do you really think that he'll appeal!

KiwiG

After what I have heard so far nothing will surprise me.

mikemac1

From watching American TV the best detectives are always drunks and spent their days in dark dank bars

Let the detective drink OP

mikemac1

mikemac1 wrote: »

From watching American TV the best detectives are always drunks and spent their days in dark dank bars

Let the detective drink OP

Yes, but they're usually the ones that are defective!

Elmer Blooker

JupiterKid wrote: »

Over the past 10 years or so, the Gardai have been enforcing the rules of the road much more vigoursly than before -

Have they? I haven't encountered a Garda checkpoint in years.
I'm sure I break the speed limit all the time (unintentionally) and I've never been done.

Nothingbetter2d

he should have also been done for leaving the scene before he could be breathalized.

Elmer Blooker

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Have they? I haven't encountered a Garda checkpoint in years.
I'm sure I break the speed limit all the time (unintentionally) and I've never been done.

You must drive only during the peak times when a checkpoint would gridlock the road network. They're showing up everywhere outside of the peak travelling times.

pickarooney

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

he should have also been done for leaving the scene before he could be breathalized.

The other driver was breathalised in the hospital though so I'm not sure why that particular point is being made. He should have been breathalised at the hospital as well - who let him off the hook there?

Kosseegan

JupiterKid wrote: »

The story concocted by this Detective Garda's lawyer beggars belief. So a drink accidentally spilt on him while he was at tge pub watching tge rugby match whilst supposedly in duty - and as a result he became intoxicated and crashed his unmarked Garda car on the M50.

OKaaaay.....

Lawyers do not concoct stories. They can only say what they were told by their client.

Kosseegan

KiwiG wrote: »

BUT he was convicted of dangerous driving Wednesday and has 14 days to appeal in which the case goes to the high court and we start all over again. two steps forward one step back?

If there is an appeal it will go to the Circuit Court and not the High court.

Sindri

Kosseegan wrote: »

If there is an appeal it will go to the Circuit Court and not the High court.

I wouldn't let him on a circuit again.....

rgmmg

There are 3 top cops who drink in a well known pub near Rathfarnham every Friday night, get into their cars and drive home. Sounds like it's one rule for them.. While we're at it, why are the top cop jobs all politically appointed? Kevin Costner's Untouchables had nothing on this posse..

Stiffler2

HAW HAW, the gardaí are finished for the momment. Their ranks were cut.
There numbers were cut and templemore has shut down so no new recruits.

I don't see 1/3 of the guards that I used to see around anymore.

So that'll be 120mph everywhere for me thank you.

Elmer Blooker

Deleted User wrote: »

You must drive only during the peak times when a checkpoint would gridlock the road network. They're showing up everywhere outside of the peak travelling times.

Not always, I'm a taxi service for my 15 yr old daughter so I'm out and about in the early hours during weekends and I can honestly say I could drive with drink taken and get away with it - no Garda presence whatsoever.

paddy147

cyclists are the worst road rule breakers out of everyone in this country.

UglyBolloxFace

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not always, I'm a taxi service for my 15 yr old daughter so I'm out and about in the early hours during weekends and I can honestly say I could drive with drink taken and get away with it - no Garda presence whatsoever.

You have drink taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaken

Elmer Blooker

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not always, I'm a taxi service for my 15 yr old daughter so I'm out and about in the early hours during weekends and I can honestly say I could drive with drink taken and get away with it - no Garda presence whatsoever.

When I say outside peak hours, I mean the checkpoints appear to be most active between 10AM and 4PM and again between 7PM and about 10PM, unless there is a particular event going on and they'll be around the area for a few hours after it ends.

Sindri

Deleted User wrote: »

When I say outside peak hours, I mean the checkpoints appear to be most active between 10AM and 4PM and again between 7PM and about 10PM, unless there is a particular event going on and they'll be around the area for a few hours after it ends.

There have been very few checkpoints around where I live. I can only think of two in the last 5 years.

Usually though, at a very dangerous part of the road near me, I see a Garda speed van fairly regularly.

TwoShedsJackson

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not always, I'm a taxi service for my 15 yr old daughter so I'm out and about in the early hours during weekends and I can honestly say I could drive with drink taken and get away with it - no Garda presence whatsoever.

KiwiG

Well folks he is due in court on Thursday for the appeal so watch this space for developments.....

Oranage2

A real credit to the force...

KiwiG

Is that a typo? should it not be "credit to the farce?"

KiwiG

OK SO TODAY HE WALKS FREE DUE TO A TECHNICALITY. MORE AS IT HAPPENS BUT I AM NOT LEAVING IT THERE.

greenflash

I lost my respect for An Garda Siochana a long time ago. Nothing to see here.

flanders1979

Its just sheer arrogance

MadsL

JupiterKid wrote: »

What angers me is not so much that the Garda detective went to the pub and drank with his colleagues on his duty time or even that he got into his car and drove off (which was completely out of order).

It is that his colleagues in the force allowed him to do so, that he was even accompanied by another Garda in the car and did not do the decent thing and turn himself in to be arrested and breathalysed.

In the US a designated driver is designated for a reason.

in the event of fatality, every passenger in the vehicle who also has "drink taken" is charged as an accomplice in the DUI, possibly even 2rd degree murder.

The Garda who got in a car with himk should at least be suspended and given a humungus bollocking.

AlekSmart

KiwiG wrote: »

OK SO TODAY HE WALKS FREE DUE TO A TECHNICALITY. MORE AS IT HAPPENS BUT I AM NOT LEAVING IT THERE.

And with one gigantic leap (of faith) he was FREEEEEE !!!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/detective-garda-cleared-on-technicality-of-dangerous-driving-29066308.html

What an incredible set of circumstances....Senior Gardai uttering past-tense orders....Five and a Half Hours in a pub...on duty !..Faulty ABS...Conflicting Information on Road Signs (I'll say !!)...Brought to Hospital but declined to be treated due to the length of waiting list....!

One wonders was the unfortunate Mr Wooster charged with ownership of a threatening 4X4..??

Can one book this Judge for one's own trials ?,as I rather like his style...a certain jesuetical slant to it....hugely enjoyable to read also.

Well done to all concerned.....:rolleyes:

KiwiG

the 4x4 was purchased a year or two before for over €20k and was a right off and reduced to a pile of scrap and an insurance payout. Surely it helped saved my life and I can only be thankful for the fact that my wife decided at late notice not to come with me on that night. Had I been driving anything smaller the outcome of this case may have been a whole lot diffrent........

aaronjumper

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, but they're usually the ones that are defective!

Looks like this is a job for the defective detective!

Hoop66

Well, that's all cleared up then.

johnr1

Sad and outrageous as this is, I'm not surprised.

Anyone who doesn't believe that there is one set of rules for us plebs, and another for cops is grossly naive. This is just at the mid range of what they can get away with.

As another poster said earlier, I lost faith in the Gardai a long time ago, and now I just keep out of their way, and try not to interact with them in any way.

Help or cooperate with crime solving for the better good of society? You must be joking. I'm not going to help them convict some other poor sod who they may be trying to stich up. Not a chance, let em do their own leg work.

It saddens me to that this is how I feel about an irish police force composed of men and women who grew up here, and from whom I would have expected so much more, but like many sectors of irish society, greed and self interest have taken precedence over service.

It'll be a good while before we have citizens saying "Thank you for your service" to this sorry lot.

Oh and before anyone tells me that on one bad cop doesn't make an entire police force, -Yes, I know that, it's just that we have many many more than one.

.

crockholm

KiwiG wrote: »

the 4x4 was purchased a year or two before for over €20k and was a right off and reduced to a pile of scrap and an insurance payout. Surely it helped saved my life and I can only be thankful for the fact that my wife decided at late notice not to come with me on that night. Had I been driving anything smaller the outcome of this case may have been a whole lot diffrent........

I am really glad that you are better,and that your family was safe. I cannot adequetly put into words the disgust I have for the courts decision,make it known in (I presume) your native NZ, don't let this just be forgotten, just to be laughed off by the same people in the pub tonight, celebrating their "win"

KiwiG

crockholm wrote: »

I am really glad that you are better,and that your family was safe. I cannot adequetly put into words the disgust I have for the courts decision,make it known in (I presume) your native NZ, don't let this just be forgotten, just to be laughed off by the same people in the pub tonight, celebrating their "win"

The not funny thing is that I am not ok. I have a shoulder complaint that is ongoing and a severe case of I am not going to let someone else drive me in a car unless is is totally required. Taxi or bus are the only exceptions there and even then I am gripped by a fear that will not go away. I still find myself crawling up the side of a bus or car when there are close shaves and it all comes back to that night in 2010.
While he walks "free" I am the one who is still suffering and am likely to do so. There is no closure here for me or my family and it sucks the fat one BIG time. When will this end for me?:mad:

crockholm

KiwiG wrote: »

The not funny thing is that I am not ok. I have a shoulder complaint that is ongoing and a severe case of I am not going to let someone else drive me in a car unless is is totally required. Taxi or bus are the only exceptions there and even then I am gripped by a fear that will not go away. I still find myself crawling up the side of a bus or car when there are close shaves and it all comes back to that night in 2010.
While he walks "free" I am the one who is still suffering and am likely to do so. There is no closure here for me or my family and it sucks the fat one BIG time. When will this end for me?:mad:

sorry to hear that all is not well,you really have been handed the brown end of the stick. I really feel that you deserve another day in court, and should not come out of your pocket too. Man,I'm really,really sorry that this happened,hope that you get justice

KiwiG

True, the brown end of the stick while its smelly and disgusting, I am still gripping onto it for dear life. Justice seems to be a fair distance away at present but this is a battle that I will not surrender.

Death and Taxes

greenflash wrote: »

I lost my respect for An Garda Siochana a long time ago. Nothing to see here.

In fairness this guy is one the small but admittedly significant percentage of Gaurds who not fit to serve in a proper police force. but we shouldn't tar them all with the same brush, lets not forget how most of us felt when Detective Garda Adrian Donohoe was brutally murdered less that three weeks ago.
There are bad Gardai,crooked Gardai,and arrogant Gardai, but the vast majority are like Adrian Donohoe; decent , hard working, and diligent Gardai.

KiwiG

I cant comment on that one didnt know him didnt meet him. Awful that he lost his life and i only hope that who ever is responsible is brought to "justice"....JUSTICE....funny word and what the word means to each of us will be different.

crockholm

KiwiG wrote: »

True, the brown end of the stick while its smelly and disgusting, I am still gripping onto it for dear life. Justice seems to be a fair distance away at present but this is a battle that I will not surrender.

Give the baxtards hell,KiwiG, give 'em hell.