Lucinda Creighton (Creation of Jobs on Vincent Brown)

Bullseye1

Anyone else see the Minister of State for European Affairs LC on the Vincent Brown show last night? Stephen Donnolly made the point that unless we see an improvement in the economy that the debt levels were unsustainable.

LC response was that if the EU and US would get their act together to have an open economy millions of jobs could be created.

Is this the governments strategy going forward? Hope that the bureaucrats in the EU and US can get their act together and open up the market between both economies?

Sleepy

It's as good as anything else I've seen suggested tbh.

johnnyskeleton

Wasn't his point that the governments plan is that so long as we have unprecedented growth while repaying an unprecedented level of debt repayment while maintaining an unprecedented level of deficit spending it will all be hunky dory?

To which Vincent called a break before Lucinda had her right of reply and then after the break nothing was said about it?

The reality is that we don't need a change of the political government, we need a change in the permanent government that drafts these stupid wishful thinking plans for recovery.

jank

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The reality is that we don't need a change of the political government, we need a change in the permanent government that drafts these stupid wishful thinking plans for recovery.

Here, here

The permanent government is the Civil Service. It is them that needs to be reformed and brought into the 21st century. The face of this government are the likes of Lucinda. In reality they have very little power over things even though she is part of the cabinet
Did see the program but were there any business leaders on IT or just politicians?

Government doesn't create jobs, it creates the environment.

drunkmonkey

jank wrote: »

Here, here

The permanent government is the Civil Service. It is them that needs to be reformed and brought into the 21st century.

We don't need them, if the future is about targets & profit it's a board of Directors with a very competent CEO we need. None of these former school teachers are capable. There career politicians and will never be able to turn a profit as none of them actually get what it's like to run a business at a loss while taking on large loans (seriously Enda your business model is lunacy) you can never repay within your lifetime, while still keeping all your overheads and not letting people go.
It just doesn't work and the longer this sick show goes on the worse things are going to get. We need a radical overhaul on how the country runs. It's no Longer Eireann, It's Republic of Ireland LTD.

Enda Kenny will be 81 or dead and we'll still be paying back loans to banks and bad investors from decisions made on his watch. He's starting to make Charlie Haughey look like Mary Poppins.

later12

Not to be too pedantic there, but Creighton does not have a seat at the Cabinet table. She is a junior Minister.

Apart from having expressed an interest in the Taoiseach's office once upon a time, and being prone to foolish outbursts, I have no idea why the woman enjoys such media prominence.

She was supposed to have been one of the Bright Young Things of the Fine Gael frontbench a few years ago, but personally I don't see what other people seem to see in her. She's more of a liability than an asset, and bearing in mind the constituency which she represents, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see her ejected from the Dail, unless she makes some dramatic changes to her PR.

She reminds me of an aggressive, and less charming Martin Cullen. Perpetually thrown out in front of the cameras to soak up the heat, and generally doing a bad job of winning public confidence in government policy.

Dannyboy83

later10 wrote: »

Not to be too pedantic there, but Creighton does not have a seat at the Cabinet table. She is a junior Minister.

Apart from having expressed an interest in the Taoiseach's office once upon a time, and being prone to foolish outbursts, I have no idea why the woman enjoys such media prominence.

She was supposed to have been one of the Bright Young Things of the Fine Gael frontbench a few years ago, but personally I don't see what other people seem to see in her. She's more of a liability than an asset, and bearing in mind the constituency which she represents, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see her ejected from the Dail, unless she makes some dramatic changes to her PR.

She reminds me of an aggressive, and less charming Martin Cullen. Perpetually thrown out in front of the cameras to soak up the heat, and generally doing a bad job of winning public confidence in government policy.

It's all very well coming in here with logic and reason, but we have gender quotas to satisfy now.......

Tora Bora

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

It's all very well coming in here with logic and reason, but we have gender quotas to satisfy now.......

And she is more pleasing on the eye, than John Deasey, form Waterford;)

He of course, has to be kept on a tight reign, as he is likely to see through all the spin, and tell it like it is:p . Of course, he wouldn't be the kind to take any shhitt from Vinny Brown either:cool:

ardmacha

Ireland is a small open economy. While we have made many mistakes ourselves, there is a limit to what we can do to improve the situation if the international economy remains subdued. I am not an admirer of Creighton, but she is correct to the extent that if the international trade returns to growth then we can take advantage of this. The difference in growth in Ireland in 2011 (higher than expected) and 2012 (now reduced) shows the close linkage with the international economy.

Godge

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We don't need them, if the future is about targets & profit it's a board of Directors with a very competent CEO we need. None of these former school teachers are capable. There career politicians and will never be able to turn a profit as none of them actually get what it's like to run a business at a loss while taking on large loans (seriously Enda your business model is lunacy) you can never repay within your lifetime, while still keeping all your overheads and not letting people go.
It just doesn't work and the longer this sick show goes on the worse things are going to get. We need a radical overhaul on how the country runs. It's no Longer Eireann, It's Republic of Ireland LTD.

Enda Kenny will be 81 or dead and we'll still be paying back loans to banks and bad investors from decisions made on his watch. He's starting to make Charlie Haughey look like Mary Poppins.

The decisions that have caused the problems were not made on Enda Kenny's watch. They are all down to a succession of decisions made by Bertie Ahern, Charlie McCreevy, Brian Cowen and Brian Lenihan, all as Minsiter for Finance or Taoiseach. Those four men made the decisions that have put the country in the state it is in.

There will be a lot of pain to get us out of this situation. Enda Kenny was the one left with the problem and has to apply the pain. It might be his fault why we have a site value tax rather than a property value tax, but it was the actions of FF that brought in the IMF who have demanded some form of property tax.

Manach

To put all the blame on FF then absolves the other vested interests that pushed for unaffordable SW and public sector entitlements which is driving the State debt burden.

Godge

Manach wrote: »

To put all the blame on FF then absolves the other vested interests that pushed for unaffordable SW and public sector entitlements which is driving the State debt burden.

We elected FF to make decisions on our behalf so strictly speaking it is our own fault, especially as we did not throw them out the first time they went for re-election.

ardmacha

then absolves the other vested interests that pushed for unaffordable SW and public sector entitlements

It is perfectly reasonable for vested interests to press their case. A simple defence against people seeking more expenditure was to say that the boom was transient and that the proposed measure were unaffordable. Bertie and co did not do this, they declared ever more boom. In general people cannot be expected to conduct their own macroeconomic analysis, it is up to the Dept of Finance, banks etc to do this.

newport2

Godge wrote: »

We elected FF to make decisions on our behalf so strictly speaking it is our own fault, especially as we did not throw them out the first time they went for re-election.

Too true. It's hard to see how any good political party would get elected in Ireland. If they were honest and upfront with us coming up to an election they would not get elected because they are not telling us what we want to hear (widened tax base, cuts, etc) and then afterwards we moan that they weren't honest and upfront with us.

[Jackass]

later10 wrote: »

Not to be too pedantic there, but Creighton does not have a seat at the Cabinet table. She is a junior Minister.

Apart from having expressed an interest in the Taoiseach's office once upon a time, and being prone to foolish outbursts, I have no idea why the woman enjoys such media prominence.

She was supposed to have been one of the Bright Young Things of the Fine Gael frontbench a few years ago, but personally I don't see what other people seem to see in her. She's more of a liability than an asset, and bearing in mind the constituency which she represents, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see her ejected from the Dail, unless she makes some dramatic changes to her PR.

She reminds me of an aggressive, and less charming Martin Cullen. Perpetually thrown out in front of the cameras to soak up the heat, and generally doing a bad job of winning public confidence in government policy.

Don't mean to drag the thread off topic, but this point was interesting to me. Just curios as to why you say that?

later12

[Jackass] wrote: »

bearing in mind the constituency which she represents, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see her ejected from the Dail, unless she makes some dramatic changes to her PR

.Don't mean to drag the thread off topic, but this point was interesting to me. Just curios as to why you say that?

I say that because Dublin South East is the most volatile constituency in the state in terms of breaking big-name political careers. Chris Andrews, John Gormley and Michael McDowell have all made nuisances of themselves and quickly found the constituents of Dublin South East to be a very unforgiving electorate. There is virtually no party loyalty to speak of in this constituency, no party has managed to hold an uninterrupted seat there.

With two Fine Gael candidates about to battle for Dublin SE in the next election, and Eoghan Murphy arguably being a more gregarious, and less doggedly loyal to his party, my money wouldn't be on Creighton hanging onto her seat. She must start to make her aggressively pro-FG attitude more voter-friendly.

It is a mistake to make yourself an eternal party mouthpiece in a constituency which does not seem to value such party loyalty.

Sponge Bob

later10 wrote: »

I say that because Dublin South East is the most volatile constituency in the state in terms of breaking big-name political careers.

Eoin Ryan too if I recall. I agree with your assesment of its volatility.

She must start to make her aggressively pro-FG attitude more voter-friendly.

But that is her main selling point and would be were she ever to change constituency.

later12

Sponge Bob wrote: »

But that is her main selling point and would be were she ever to change constituency.

Oh yes, her party loyalty would be an asset in a rural constituency, for example back home in Mayo. But I don't think that Dublin South East has a significant enough Fine Gael loyalist vote, or 'family vote' as one finds elsewhere to secure her a victory.

Many more appearances like her recent Vincent Browne outing may piss off a lot of voters in light of 5 Fine Gael austerity budgets.

Eoghan Murphy is a bright, articulate, reasonably charismatic individual and it's as hard to see him being passed over for Creighton next time out. I'd say he has a solid future in the party. Creighton gave an interview last year in which she appeared to rethink whether politics was her vocation. I think her constituency may have similar misgivings.

Edit: Again, I'm afraid I'm guilty of having forgotten about gender quotas. Not sure if that will effect Creighton's chances, if at all.

Good loser

I consider Lucinda very intelligent and articulate - well able to put VB in his place.

Always well read on her subjects. The kind of politician the country needs.

Easily bested Mary Lou.

Scofflaw

later10 wrote: »

I say that because Dublin South East is the most volatile constituency in the state in terms of breaking big-name political careers. Chris Andrews, John Gormley and Michael McDowell have all made nuisances of themselves and quickly found the constituents of Dublin South East to be a very unforgiving electorate. There is virtually no party loyalty to speak of in this constituency, no party has managed to hold an uninterrupted seat there.

With two Fine Gael candidates about to battle for Dublin SE in the next election, and Eoghan Murphy arguably being a more gregarious, and less doggedly loyal to his party, my money wouldn't be on Creighton hanging onto her seat. She must start to make her aggressively pro-FG attitude more voter-friendly.

It is a mistake to make yourself an eternal party mouthpiece in a constituency which does not seem to value such party loyalty.

I sometimes think this is the only constituency in the country that works properly.

smugly,
Scofflaw

[Jackass]

I'm in that constituency also, which is why I was curious. I would agree with your assessment later10 that a big name doesn't count for much in Dublin SE, many a political career has ended here. It also claimed Frances Fitzgerald, who later moved her elections HQ to the north side.

Personally though, I think Lucinda is a very capable political figure, and I'm fairly satisfied with her performance so far. She does seem to be one of those love to hate for the oppisition supporters though, probably because she is a young talented politician though.

Sponge Bob

She is utterly talentless and devoid of any principles but is prepared to suffer whatever opprobium her party currently deserves in a public media forum. Lucinda believes there is no such thing as bad publicity.

She is also available in Dublin from Thursday to Monday when ordinary decent Mayo TDs are in Mayo.

Remember that Willie O Dea made it all the to cabinet doing the exact same thing

CDfm

jank wrote: »

The permanent government is the Civil Service. It is them that needs to be reformed and brought into the 21st century. The face of this government are the likes of Lucinda.

Yes Lucy, whatcha doin about that ?

ardmacha wrote: »

I am not an admirer of Creighton, but she is correct to the extent that if the international trade returns to growth then we can take advantage of this.

She is not wrong about that in the same way as you won't have rain if there are no clouds in the sky.

Manach wrote: »

To put all the blame on FF then absolves the other vested interests that pushed for unaffordable SW and public sector entitlements which is driving the State debt burden.

And that is true.

With the party whip system the power is concentrated in the party leadership.

The corporate state controls Ireland and a trade union leader or senior civil servant has more power than a politician like Lucinda has or is likely to ever have.

Bertie just went with the flow and the social partnership & won elections.

The acid test would be Lucinda saying its time to renegotiate the Croke Park Agreement.

southsiderosie

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

It's all very well coming in here with logic and reason, but we have gender quotas to satisfy now.......

Given the overall level of incompetence of many Irish elected officials, it is ridiculous to use gender as a cover for ineptitude or un-likablity. That seems like a pretty equal opportunity phenomenon. Nepotism is a far bigger issue in Ireland than informal gender quotas.

CDfm

southsiderosie wrote: »

Given the overall level of incompetence of many Irish elected officials, it is ridiculous to use gender as a cover for ineptitude or un-likablity.

And where is your proof that she exercises any real power.

That seems like a pretty equal opportunity phenomenon. Nepotism is a far bigger issue in Ireland than informal gender quotas.

She has been elected and representing the electorate is a far bigger issue than either nepotism or quota's what good is a quota if a leader calls the shots enforced by the whip system.

southsiderosie

CDfm wrote: »

And where is your proof that she exercises any real power.



She has been elected and representing the electorate is a far bigger issue than either nepotism or quota's what good is a quota if a leader calls the shots enforced by the whip system.

What? I'm just saying that the injection of gender quotas into a conversation about this woman doesn't make any sense.

CDfm

southsiderosie wrote: »

What? I'm just saying that the injection of gender quotas into a conversation about this woman doesn't make any sense.

Point taken

It was the nepotism I objected to.

I don't look at her as being an effective public representative, no better or worse than others, but she does have the profile to make a difference.

Dannyboy83

southsiderosie wrote: »

What? I'm just saying that the injection of gender quotas into a conversation about this woman doesn't make any sense.

My post was in repsonse to Later10 who said

Later10 wrote:

She's more of a liability than an asset, and bearing in mind the constituency which she represents, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see her ejected from the Dail, unless she makes some dramatic changes to her PR.

The Govt has published a Bill to ensure that women make up 30% of party candidates in the next general election.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1215/gender.html

I'm think you've misinterpreted me as saying she's crap because she's a woman (certainly not the case - personally I hope Burton ousts Gilmore and takes leadership of Labour) and I would wholeheartedly agree with you about the quality of her many of her male colleagues.

southsiderosie

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

My post was in repsonse to Later10 who said


The Govt has published a Bill to ensure that women make up 30% of party candidates in the next general election.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1215/gender.html

I'm think you've misinterpreted me as saying she's crap because she's a woman (certainly not the case - personally I hope Burton ousts Gilmore and takes leadership of Labour) and I would wholeheartedly agree with you about the quality of her many of her male colleagues.

Ah, ok - sorry I misinterpreted that.

On the legislation: would it really make any difference? The quota is just for candidates, not just voters, right? So FG could plausibly keep her on the ballot, but two men could go 1-2 in terms of preferences and transfers? Granted this would take vote management on the part of the party, but if that district is really as independent as it is portrayed in the thread, then it wouldn't matter much anyway.

CDfm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

My post was in repsonse to Later10 who said


The Govt has published a Bill to ensure that women make up 30% of party candidates in the next general election.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1215/gender.html

I'm think you've misinterpreted me as saying she's crap because she's a woman (certainly not the case - personally I hope Burton ousts Gilmore and takes leadership of Labour) and I would wholeheartedly agree with you about the quality of her many of her male colleagues.

Southsiderosie has a point about un-likablity and certainly political power is far removed from ordinary TD's and junior ministers such a Creighton.

The only power a TD has is electing the party leader.

Burton taking over Labour would not improve representative government either.

What we are talking about is a TV performance on a talk show. You gotta admit that Lucinda Creighton does better on Vincent Brown than Joan Burton ever does.

CDfm

southsiderosie wrote: »

Ah, ok - sorry I misinterpreted that.

On the legislation: would it really make any difference? The quota is just for candidates, not just voters, right? So FG could plausibly keep her on the ballot, but two men could go 1-2 in terms of preferences and transfers? Granted this would take vote management on the part of the party, but if that district is really as independent as it is portrayed in the thread, then it wouldn't matter much anyway.

That is candidate gender headcount and has nothing to do with policy.

Policy & interest group wise women are far better represented than men and if you want to seriously remove inequality that needs to be tackled too.

View

southsiderosie wrote: »

Given the overall level of incompetence of many Irish elected officials, it is ridiculous to use gender as a cover for ineptitude or un-likablity. That seems like a pretty equal opportunity phenomenon. Nepotism is a far bigger issue in Ireland than informal gender quotas.

And why shouldn't there be a quota for the incompetent and the nepotists? Whoever said quotas had to be for desirable people?

Dannyboy83

southsiderosie wrote: »

On the legislation: would it really make any difference? The quota is just for candidates, not just voters, right?

So FG could plausibly keep her on the ballot, but two men could go 1-2 in terms of preferences and transfers? Granted this would take vote management on the part of the party, but if that district is really as independent as it is portrayed in the thread, then it wouldn't matter much anyway.

I think it will work itself out the long term but in the short term tho, I'm guessing it would make a significant difference because there are only 7 women in the Dail iirc.
That is 7 established female politicians.

I'm making the assumption (possibly incorrect) that it's always easier to go with an established politician than try to try field a new candidate, especially where some type of quota is enforced - which would benefit someone such as Lucinda Creighton hugely and ironically, could mean a worse chance for a new female candiate in a constituency where there is an established female candidate.

While we are on the topic - as I understand, you must be present in the Dail to vote.
What will happen in the event when a female TD is on maternity?
Pairing agreement?

southsiderosie

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I think it will work itself out the long term but in the short term tho, I'm guessing it would make a significant difference because there are only 7 women in the Dail iirc.
That is 7 established female politicians.

I'm making the assumption (possibly incorrect) that it's always easier to go with an established politician than try to try field a new candidate, especially where some type of quota is enforced - which would benefit someone such as Lucinda Creighton hugely and ironically, could mean a worse chance for a new female candiate in a constituency where there is an established female candidate.

While we are on the topic - as I understand, you must be present in the Dail to vote.
What will happen in the event when a female TD is on maternity?
Pairing agreement?

Although this is getting a bit OT, I would imagine that they would come in for important votes on the floor, but otherwise work from home for a few weeks. It has happened in the EU parliament:

later12

I think it's somewhat relevant to point out that the gender quota is unlikely to affect Creighton unless she moves constituency.

The gender quota will only really affect candidate selection, and it's hard to imagine both FG TDs not being selected in Dublin South East next time around... even if Creighton turns out to be only a sweeper for Eoghan Murphy (who will probably have been given a more noteworthy role by mid-term)

femur61

View wrote: »

And why shouldn't there be a quota for the incompetent and the nepotists? Whoever said quotas had to be for desirable people?

I, as a woman, always thought this gender quota target was ridiculous. Lucinda is a fine example why we shouldn't have one, Mary O Rourke is another example of both nepotism and gender quota.

CDfm

femur61 wrote: »

I, as a woman, always thought this gender quota target was ridiculous. Lucinda is a fine example why we shouldn't have one, Mary O Rourke is another example of both nepotism and gender quota.

I am not a Lucinda fan either , did VB give her an easy time i the interview.