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TV Licence.

  • 31-01-2012 12:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭


    So got a letter today saying that I need to get a tv licence if I have a tv.

    BUT the thing is I don't get channels in the house, not even the RTE's, I just use the tv to watch dvds.

    I heard that a tv licence inspector can get a warrant or whatever to search the house, am I just being gullible?

    Can I just not answer the door whenever he arrives next and get on with life?

    I can't afford a tv licence but I don't think I should have to get one if I'm not watching tv on it.

    Any advice?

    *Sorry if this is in the wrong section MODS I just didn't know where to put it.
    Feel free to relocate as you see fit. :)


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭shockwave


    As far as I know if you have a tv,even if you dont have any channels on it you still have to pay the licence as its able to receive tv signals.

    Dump the telly and watch dvds on a laptop or pc is the only way around this.....for now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭old gregg


    If you have equipment capable of receiving a television signal then you must have a television licence as far as I can see:
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html


    Watching your DVD on a laptop/desktop/mobile computer is currently excluded as long as it does not contain a tv receiver card.

    Not loking good for you sorry to say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Eroticplants


    Grrr.

    Can he come in and inspect the house, like bedrooms and that?

    My laptop has terrible sound so that would just depress me.

    I may just relocate the tv until the next time he calls and then be all "TV whaaaat?"

    Cheers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭yellowlabrador


    Sell the tv and buy a monitor and speakers? You can then connect the laptop to the monitor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Grrr.

    Can he come in and inspect the house, like bedrooms and that?

    My laptop has terrible sound so that would just depress me.

    I may just relocate the tv until the next time he calls and then be all "TV whaaaat?"

    Cheers.

    Is your tv in plain sight? He can't enter your house without permission and I think only Gardaí can serve a warrant. As far as I know, he can make a declaration that he has observed a tv in your house if he has seen it through the front window or whatever but if your tv is out of sight, I'm fairly sure you could just say you don't have one. Not sure how they deal with this as there are very few people who don't have a tv even if they don't use it at all. Once you have a device capable of receiving a tv signal, you have to pay the license.


    Sell the tv and buy a monitor and speakers? You can then connect the laptop to the monitor.

    Not sure how much longer that will exempt you! They've been talking about introducing a "media" tax or whatever they want to call it so that they can charge people who don't use tvs also. I'd say this won't be too far down the tracks.

    It's a joke of a tax anyway but the government have had it for so long that I suppose they can't do without it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    Can he come in and inspect the house, like bedrooms and that?

    Not unless he has a Garda with him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 711 ✭✭✭snuggles09


    You can pay it monthly if you don't have it all in one go..i pay ours 13 euro a month..might work out a bit more over the course of the year but we can never afford it when we get the renewal so i always do the direct direct option


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    Not unless he has a Garda with him.


    And even then I doubt if you would still have to let them in.

    I've never heard of Gardaí breaking down someone's door to search for a TV.

    Also may I add, TV detection vans are a myth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭User Friendly


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    Not unless he has a Garda with him.
    you dont have to allow anybody,including cops onto your property.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭jayboi


    Can he come in and inspect the house, like bedrooms and that?
    Not unless he wants a swift puck in the nose.
    Let no one in your house.
    I wouldnt even let a guard in. A guard should have a warrent and valid id.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭puppetmaster


    I can't even recieve an RTE signal, Still need to pay a TV licence if ya got a reciever. :rolleyes:

    But yeh as mentioned above they're gona close any loop holes with the new 'Broadcast licence'. Even though RTE is as a commercial entity as the non subsidised Outfits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭jonevin


    snuggles09 wrote: »
    You can pay it monthly if you don't have it all in one go..i pay ours 13 euro a month..might work out a bit more over the course of the year but we can never afford it when we get the renewal so i always do the direct direct option

    How do you set this up to pay monthly?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    jonevin wrote: »
    How do you set this up to pay monthly?


    AFAIK, you can buy TV license stamps from the post office.

    I don't know how you go about paying the license fee off on a monthly basis once the inspector comes calling though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭sillysocks


    You can set it up as a direct debit monthly too, that's how we do it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 711 ✭✭✭snuggles09




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭S28382


    They definitely can go into your house but only with the cops and they have to have a warrant they will leave you a notice to say your property is to be searched for a tv and then whenever they see fit they will come along with the cops and warrant and search your house and there is nothing you can do if you don't wanna pay it make sure you get rid of the tv but you never know when they will call with the cops.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    S28382 wrote: »
    They definitely can go into your house but only with the cops and they have to have a warrant they will leave you a notice to say your property is to be searched for a tv and then whenever they see fit they will come along with the cops and warrant and search your house and there is nothing you can do if you don't wanna pay it make sure you get rid of the tv but you never know when they will call with the cops.

    Have you ever seen this happen though? I think the cops have a lot of things that would be higher priority than searching a house for a tv. I wonder who goes to the court to get the search warrant too because that can't be an easy process.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 711 ✭✭✭snuggles09


    i might be being a bit of a thicko here but do you need a licence for every TV in the house? most houses nowadays have more than one TV..is it a licence for each one or does the licence cover the household if you get me?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    S28382 wrote: »
    They definitely can go into your house but only with the cops and they have to have a warrant they will leave you a notice to say your property is to be searched for a tv and then whenever they see fit they will come along with the cops and warrant and search your house and there is nothing you can do if you don't wanna pay it make sure you get rid of the tv but you never know when they will call with the cops.

    Not according to our constitution.

    Article 40 5.

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭S28382


    Yeah I seen it at first hand I didn't pay it and I told them I didn't have any connection to tv I only used the tv for playing the Xbox and I refused to pay and they went down the road of cops and warrants


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    S28382 wrote: »
    Yeah I seen it at first hand I didn't pay it and I told them I didn't have any connection to tv I only used the tv for playing the Xbox and I refused to pay and they went down the road of cops and warrants

    How long did it take from the first incident to them arriving with the cops? Your situation is also different in that you told him you had a tv so you were definitely breaking he law, no matter how ridiculous it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    S28382 wrote: »
    Yeah I seen it at first hand I didn't pay it and I told them I didn't have any connection to tv I only used the tv for playing the Xbox and I refused to pay and they went down the road of cops and warrants

    Did the cops actually turn up with a warrant or did they 'trick' their way into your house?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭S28382


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    S28382 wrote: »
    Yeah I seen it at first hand I didn't pay it and I told them I didn't have any connection to tv I only used the tv for playing the Xbox and I refused to pay and they went down the road of cops and warrants

    How long did it take from the first incident to them arriving with the cops? Your situation is also different in that you told him you had a tv so you were definitely breaking he law, no matter how ridiculous it is.



    Ah it was nearly a year they sent an inspector out twice and a load of letters and then finally a notice that a warrant was to be served with the involvement of the gardai, I had a disconnected sky satellite on the front of my house and they just took it that I had a connection I told them I didn't it was clear as day that the cable wasn't in the dish but the still went ahead and took the action that they did, the tv inspector was actually dead on but I was against paying because I didn't have it connected to anything but my Xbox, nothing ever came of it because I moved house and emailed the tv licence office and told them I wasn't living there anymore so the whole thing was cancelled obviously with me proving I didn't live there no more


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭S28382


    Oh and they did call out with the cops I wasn't there that day I was in work one of my neighbors told me they were knocking on my door and looking in over the back wall


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    S28382 wrote: »
    Oh and they did call out with the cops I wasn't there that day I was in work one of my neighbors told me they were knocking on my door and looking in over the back wall

    I take it they didn't kick down your door?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭S28382


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    S28382 wrote: »
    Oh and they did call out with the cops I wasn't there that day I was in work one of my neighbors told me they were knocking on my door and looking in over the back wall

    I take it they didn't kick down your door?

    Haha nope


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    S28382 wrote: »
    Haha nope


    Thought so. Wouldn't be surprise that they didn't even had a warrant and would probably try and trick or bully their way into your house.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    And even then I doubt if you would still have to let them in.

    I've never heard of Gardaí breaking down someone's door to search for a TV.

    Also may I add, TV detection vans are a myth.

    Who said anything about breaking down doors?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    Who said anything about breaking down doors?


    If you refuse to let them in and they have a search warrant, then legally speaking they can break down your door.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    you dont have to allow anybody,including cops onto your property.

    Lol with a warrant you do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    The Gardai can enter anywhere with a lawful warrant, by force if necessary.

    And, the TV Licence wording is such that if you have a laptop, desktop, tablet or any device capable of receiving a signal you have to pay. Even if you have a laptop with no tv card, you still have to pay as the device can be adapted. In this day and age, unless you have no tv, no computer and no smart phone, you have to pay it. Simples.

    And if you can't get the signal, then i would fight it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭User Friendly


    Sully wrote: »
    Lol with a warrant you do.
    well that goes without saying Sully:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,813 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    snuggles09 wrote: »
    i might be being a bit of a thicko here but do you need a licence for every TV in the house? most houses nowadays have more than one TV..is it a licence for each one or does the licence cover the household if you get me?

    Just one for the house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    The Gardai can enter anywhere with a lawful warrant, by force if necessary.

    And, the TV Licence wording is such that if you have a laptop, desktop, tablet or any device capable of receiving a signal you have to pay. Even if you have a laptop with no tv card, you still have to pay as the device can be adapted. In this day and age, unless you have no tv, no computer and no smart phone, you have to pay it. Simples.

    And if you can't get the signal, then i would fight it.

    I'm pretty sure that can't be the case because, otherwise, they wouldn't be trying to draft another law to include computers etc.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that can't be the case because, otherwise, they wouldn't be trying to draft another law to include computers etc.

    That's exasperated from Garda Powers. The government which to create a new type of licence, to replace the existing, that would keep up with modern ways of receiving TV. At the moment, without a TV/Aerial, they may find it tough to prosecute.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom



    The Gardai can enter anywhere with a lawful warrant, by force if necessary.

    Good luck getting a warrant for a TV licence.
    And, the TV Licence wording is such that if you have a laptop, desktop, tablet or any device capable of receiving a signal you have to pay. Even if you have a laptop with no tv card, you still have to pay as the device can be adapted.

    Incorrect.
    Always brought up in these debates, and always wrong.
    The Broadcasting Bill 2009 specifically exempts mobile phones, “standard PCs with a broadband connection and laptops with TV cards” from a television licence requirement, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Eamon Ryan TD, has said.
    What this means is that anyone in Ireland watching streamed or downloadable video content, be it from a service such as YouTube or the RTE Player – which has shows such as EastEnders and Grey’s Anatomy available for viewing after broadcast – will not have to hold any form of TV licence.
    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/12982-government-says-no-tv-licen

    2009, but this still stands today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    mikom wrote: »
    Good luck getting a warrant for a TV licence.

    It is possible to get it. I can't find the exact part of law detailing how, but the Inspector can apply for a warrant through his channels and have a Garda with him to execute the warrant, as long as he has reasonable suspicion. I reckon it may become common as they try and get more money from us.
    Incorrect.
    Always brought up in these debates, and always wrong.

    Section 140 of the Broadcasting Act 2009:

    “ television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;

    That covers a helluva lot!
    2009, but this still stands today.

    I can see the quote, but i can't see it in the Broadcasting Act 2009 or any of the 3 SI's which came after it. I'm open to correction, but i can't find it. The then Minister said once the Act is in force, he would subsequently exempt them, but there's no indication that he did.

    If you, or anyone, can find the Act or SI which exempts laptops, etc, then i will accept it with wide-open arms and get rid of my TV's for projectors and save myself €160 a year!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 kittymiss


    shocking stuff here , people sitting in their own humble abodes waiting for the state troopers to come and catch them, for not contributing to the salaries and pensions of pat spindrella kenny,tubs,jo daffy ,boredom o conner and plenty other super ovepaid z listers.
    take a deep breath ,there are more important things to worry about for more and more people like food, clothing, heating etc....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    It is possible to get it. I can't find the exact part of law detailing how, but the Inspector can apply for a warrant through his channels and have a Garda with him to execute the warrant, as long as he has reasonable suspicion. I reckon it may become common as they try and get more money from us.

    Is it possible though? I can't see how a warrant could be issued for a TV inspection.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    Is it possible though? I can't see how a warrant could be issued for a TV inspection.

    I know there is a section in the Broadcasting Act 09 that states that an inspector is allowed to enter any premises in order to inspect the place, but it didn't mention a warrant, or any offences for stopping or refusing him entry. I'm sure if that section is there, then there must be something for a warrant.

    Edit: Section 146(3) of the Broadcasting Act 09:
    (3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

    But, if the Gardai do call to the door (with the inspector), look for the warrant before allowing entry.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom



    But, if the Gardai do call to the door (with the inspector), look for the warrant before allowing entry.

    You'll find they won't be very forthcoming with it.
    There will be few guards that will bother a judge for a warrant to deal with a TV licence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    mikom wrote: »
    You'll find they won't be very forthcoming with it.

    If they don't show it to you, I'd grab the nearest item that records video, press record and request the warrant again.
    There will be few guards that will bother a judge for a warrant to deal with a TV licence.

    I reckon it will become common, it's revenue for the state, i'm sure they'll try and push it especially to try and cover the costs of the digital changeover.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    If they don't show it to you, I'd grab the nearest item that records video, press record and request the warrant again.



    I reckon it will become common, it's revenue for the state, i'm sure they'll try and push it especially to try and cover the costs of the digital changeover.


    It would be in breach of your constitutional rights for a garda (even with a warrant) to enter your house on the basis of a TV inspection.

    Also, AFAIK, the gardaí do not need to have the warrant with them when conducting a search.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    It would be in breach of your constitutional rights for a garda (even with a warrant) to enter your house on the basis of a TV inspection.

    Source? Once a warrant is granted and is valid, the Gardai have the power to search your house. Whether they want a TV, a needle or a cup of coffee. Once they have a valid reason, they are entitled.
    Also, AFAIK, the gardaí do not need to have the warrant with them when conducting a search.

    They cant gain access to your house, without permission or a warrant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Sully wrote: »
    Source? Once a warrant is granted and is valid, the Gardai have the power to search your house. Whether they want a TV, a needle or a cup of coffee. Once they have a valid reason, they are entitled.

    I can't see any judge issuing a warrant for a TV inspection. Saying that, if the gardaí do turn up to search your house for a TV, they are breaching your constitutional rights as outlined in:

    Article 40 5

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.


    They cant gain access to your house, without permission or a warrant.

    I never said they could do otherwise. I stated that they don't need to have the warrant with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    I can't see any judge issuing a warrant for a TV inspection. Saying that, if the gardaí do turn up to search your house for a TV, they are breaching your constitutional rights as outlined in:

    Article 40 5

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.





    I never said they could do otherwise. I stated that they don't need to have the warrant with them.

    The "save in accordance with law" bit is where your argument falls down if you're talking about them arriving with a warrant.

    And they do have to have the warrant with them. They basically have to serve you with the warrant and I'm pretty sure you have to read it and sign it or something like that before they can enter.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    And they do have to have the warrant with them. They basically have to serve you with the warrant and I'm pretty sure you have to read it and sign it or something like that before they can enter.

    Doubt it. If you object to the warrant, you can have your case struck out because the evidence picked up (if any) during the search would be invalid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Sully wrote: »
    Doubt it. If you object to the warrant, you can have your case struck out because the evidence picked up (if any) during the search would be invalid.

    Yeah I'm not sure about that last bit but I thought I remembered being told that before. Must check it out just out of curiousity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    The "save in accordance with law" bit is where your argument falls down if you're talking about them arriving with a warrant.

    Actually that part of the article is where I make my arguement. A warrant for a TV inspection would be like taking a sledge hammer to a peanut.
    And they do have to have the warrant with them. They basically have to serve you with the warrant and I'm pretty sure you have to read it and sign it or something like that before they can enter.

    I have been told differently.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    Actually that part of the article is where I make my arguement. A warrant for a TV inspection would be like taking a sledge hammer to a peanut.

    I agree with you that it's very unlikely that anyone would go to the bother of getting a warrant for something so small as a tv license violation but the fact remains that if a Garda arrives at your door with a warrant, they can enter your home. That's the only point I was making, seeing as you wrote:
    Saying that, if the gardaí do turn up to search your house for a TV, they are breaching your constitutional rights as outlined in:

    Article 40 5

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.


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