Novice bench press

boynesider

Hi. I am a GAA player and I have just started weight training 2 months ago.

Im 5'9 and 74 kilos and my max bench press after 2 months is 80 kg (no idea whether this is good or bad).

Since starting I have made huge progressions in the weight I can lift every single week but in the last 2 weeks this has slowed down massively. I was just wondering whether this is natural or am I doing something wrong?

Also is there a maximum weight I will be able to get to for my size? I often hear of rugby players lifting around 150 kg but is this type of weight off limits for people under 6 foot or does size make much of a difference?

Thanks for any responses. I'm using a home set up and never get a chance to talk to people in the know.

Tigger

Benching 80 kg off 74kg is good
Its about 110% of body weight. For gAA I would try getting up to 5 reps of weight for three sets and then once you can add 2.5kg

Sounds like you'd getting strong fast but rember to work on mobility. There is loads of stuff On YouTube etc to advise you or search transform on this site got goo advice on functional strength

boynesider

Thanks for the response. By mobility do you mean your general flexibility and suppleness? I was warned alright that getting too bulky can impede these aspects of your fitness but I have always been very flexible and so far i haven't noticed any difference. Will keep an eye on it though

Tigger

boynesider wrote: »

Thanks for the response. By mobility do you mean your general flexibility and suppleness? I was warned alright that getting too bulky can impede these aspects of your fitness but I have always been very flexible and so far i haven't noticed any difference. Will keep an eye on it though

I do
It's the new black

Hanley

Mobility sure is the new fitness buzz word...

Re: benching - 1 to 1.5x bodyweight's probably the range you want to be in. Strong legs, hips and core are probably more important. And good skillzz and conditioning are probably more important than both of those too.

Imma throw out a theory that increasing your bench press won't make you a better GAA player. Pure speculation really, but itll be interesting to see who comes out in agreement/disagreement.

And yup it's normal to experience a slow down in gains. The primary adaptation occurring for beginners is your body learning how to co-ordinate itself in a manner to continually move heavier loads. You're not necessarily gaining muscle, just learning how to use what you have more efficiently.

And to go a step further on all of this I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on the effect of specific movement efficiency (benching) and the positive impact it would have on on the field performance.

Tigger

Benching bigger will make him feel strong and confident which will improve his game.
I wouldnt like to state what he should do to improve his body for playing but I'd guess that bodyweight stuff combined with drill replicati v the movements of the game would help most. Again my guess but I'd say that improving his bench his press his squat and his deadlift once a week would help with general progression mabey just by feeling stronger = more confident = braver.

deadlybuzzman

Hanley wrote: »

Mobility sure is the new fitness buzz word...
Strong legs, hips and core are probably more important. And good skillzz and conditioning are probably more important than both of those too.

Imma throw out a theory that increasing your bench press won't make you a better GAA player. Pure speculation really, but itll be interesting to see who comes out in agreement/disagreement.

Id say (and this is coming from someone thats not played GAA since I was a kid, only soccer) that it would all come down to addressing the specific weaknesses of individual players.
For any nearly any sport skill and conditioning should be the main focus but I was surprised how often Ive played football against guys that play GAA that were my size that I could push around or guys bigger than me that I was holding my own against.
This wasnt every single player by any means but it would strike me that there are some players that could do with bringing up their upper body strength along with hips and core, afterall no point being able to keep someone at arms length if theyre pushing you backwards with your own arm, and if a player in possession is tackled by 2 players at once, making some space would definitley come in useful.

Thud

Up to a certain point i think it's going to help, if you're stronger (upper body) than the guy marking you you'll be able to hold him off/shoulder him off/absorb his shoulders more than him most of the time.

I think the getting too bulky for football thing is like the "i don't want to get too big in the gym" thing, it's not going to happen by accident or quickly and worst case scenario you can always taper down a bit.

Extra muscle doesn't seem to slow rugby player down too much (backs), would be interesting to see what sort of GAA player Tommy Bowe would be nowadays

Groe

I did a lot of S and S training during the summer for Hurling and the most important thing I learned was to have a balance in your training.
We had a good mix of both upper body, lower body and core work (along with general skills training). As regards upper body muscle building in GAA, it is a nice asset to have when you're marking a hefty country full back. Although as far as the sport is concerned it doesn't exactly directing relate to your skills. I found that lower body and core work was much more useful for speed and also for breaking tackles etc.
The main thing you need to take into account is that if you are putting on weight on your chest and arms etc, then you most definitely need to increase the power in your legs with squats etc.
Think about it this way, if someone gives you a 5kg plate and tells you to sprint with it, you will be significantly slower. In a high speed field game you need to be one step ahead of your man all the time. So yes, by all means bulk up your upper body as it will definitely give you somewhat of an advantage, but be sure to increase leg power as that is your most valuable asset in a field game such as Hurling/Football.
Hope that helps a little

boynesider

Thanks for all the responses.

I would agree with most of you that fitness and speed are far more important for GAA but tbh I feel that I'm pretty advanced in these and I like working on new things.

I'm basically just concentrating on a number of compound exercises (squats, deadlifts, benching, pull ups) and a hell of a lot of core work.

I have to say that I have noticed a difference in my performance so far. GAA can be a physical game if you want it to be and I do feel quite a bit stronger carrying the ball and tackling.

Any recommendations for me if I were to add a few new exercises to the ones I have mentioned above?

Burkatron

boynesider wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses.

I would agree with most of you that fitness and speed are far more important for GAA but tbh I feel that I'm pretty advanced in these and I like working on new things.

I'm basically just concentrating on a number of compound exercises (squats, deadlifts, benching, pull ups) and a hell of a lot of core work.

I have to say that I have noticed a difference in my performance so far. GAA can be a physical game if you want it to be and I do feel quite a bit stronger carrying the ball and tackling.

Any recommendations for me if I were to add a few new exercises to the ones I have mentioned above?

Are you doing wide grip pull ups or chin ups?

It wouldn't hurt to add in rows of any form! Balance out Internal rotation of the chest from the benching!! (I know about this one too well, swimming was the cause more then benching but anyway)

Keep doing what you're doing & look into getting coached in Olympic lifts if you want to develop more power after that!

Pace2008

Burkatron wrote: »

Are you doing wide grip pull ups or chin ups?

Do people actually do wide-grip chin ups (supinated)? I tried them before and they felt completely...wrong.

Doctor_Socks

I did a lot of conditioning for hurling back when I as younger, of course I was one of those people back then that thought 'None of the greats like Christy Ring used to use heavyweights' so I never pushed myself as hard as I could back then. Was happy with pushups, chinups and other bodyweight movement to help my strength, nothing wrong with it but I feel heavy training has added more to my game then that did.

One thing i've found with heavy training recently is that I may carry extra bulk but my burst of speed from a standstill to a ball has improved dramatically after increasing my squat and deadlift to 2xBW! Extra bulk will slow you down and tire you out after a long sprint but for a goalie who only had around 20ft at most to dart to a ball it helped enormously!

Although for all the good that weightlifting did me it really isn't a substitute for skill. I can puck a sliotar a long, long distance but my oul fella who doesn't do any weightlifting as me can drive the ball much further! Shows what skill and experience does for ya!

Burkatron

Pace2008 wrote: »

Do people actually do wide-grip chin ups (supinated)? I tried them before and they felt completely...wrong.

That's not what I meant! I was just wondering was he calling chinups pull ups (I could've just asked). Loads of people do that. If the OP is doing either one he should add in the other

cosatron

hi im also a gaa head for my troubles.ive just completed about 8 weeks of clean and jerk training after completing a course in technique and i find the benefits unreal for a gaa player as its a total body exercise and so far, its added allot of explosiveness, power and speed to my game.
typically workout in the gym
clean ad jerks
Back squats
benching
pull ups

Doctor_Socks

Clean and Jerk is an excellent lift for any athlete, BUT it has to be thought properly or you may aswell be pissing against the wind for all the good it will do ya! Same with the snatch, quality exercise for explosiveness but needs to be thought. I've never seen anyone just pick it up on their own, apart from the tralee ninja, but we won't mention him again in this thread or i'll get depressed...

cosatron

totally agree, i woudln't have even attempted the clean and jerk only for a course i did in them, hopefully ill get to do the snatch next winter and over head squat

Edwardius

Doctor_Socks wrote: »

Clean and Jerk is an excellent lift for any athlete, BUT it has to be thought properly or you may aswell be pissing against the wind for all the good it will do ya! Same with the snatch, quality exercise for explosiveness but needs to be thought. I've never seen anyone just pick it up on their own, apart from the tralee ninja, but we won't mention him again in this thread or i'll get depressed...

That's not really accurate, you can definitely learn yourself if you're willing to put in the time and spend ages watching videos and reading up on the lifts. Bill Starr taught himself by looking at pictures in magazines and so did Tommy Hayden.

The thing is, for most people the amount of time taken to get competent and flexible could be better spent doing something else for your sport. Maybe just power cleans or power snatches could be used. These are fairly handy to pick up.

Hanley

Dead Ed wrote: »

That's not really accurate, you can definitely learn yourself if you're willing to put in the time and spend ages watching videos and reading up on the lifts. Bill Starr taught himself by looking at pictures in magazines and so did Tommy Hayden.

The thing is, for most people the amount of time taken to get competent and flexible could be better spent doing something else for your sport. Maybe just power cleans or power snatches could be used. These are fairly handy to pick up.

This.

NSCA also realeased an interesting study recently showing similar levels of power are produced with 40% of your max on TBDL, not sure if they were bringing triple extension etc into, only briefly glanced at the abstract. May be worth tracking down.

Any exercise done "explosively" can be used for increased power output/RFD.

benchppress

What are the benefits of benching with a good powerlifter technique? I was doing the bench press in a gym and some crossfit knacker came over and told me i was doing it wrong and told me to google west side method.

i just bench press for the craic rather than do left competitively. so doing what the guy does in the video seems to really increase your numbers and make the bench press the smallest possible movement while still being the bench press.

if you're using bench press in conjunction with deadlifts, squats, over head presses and body weight **** do you need to use this technique?

or is it very important for injury prevention etc.?

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

This.

NSCA also realeased an interesting study recently showing similar levels of power are produced with 40% of your max on TBDL, not sure if they were bringing triple extension etc into, only briefly glanced at the abstract. May be worth tracking down.

Any exercise done "explosively" can be used for increased power output/RFD.

I know Luois Simmons is as full of crap as the next guy but apparently he's measured the speed at which his guys can move a bar loaded with X weight and it's as fast as any weightlifter.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

I know Luois Simmons is as full of crap as the next guy but apparently he's measured the speed at which his guys can move a bar loaded with X weight and it's as fast as any weightlifter.

You bastard.

benchppress

Hanley wrote: »

people's thoughts on the effect of specific movement efficiency (benching) and the positive impact it would have on on the field performance.

so what's the consensus

Brian?

benchppress wrote: »

so what's the consensus

Good luck with getting one .

IMHO benching is fairly low down the list of exercises a GAA play should concentrate on.

Skills and conditioning are more important of course.

With regards to weight training I would have thought power cleans, squats, deadlifts and single leg variations of squats/DLs would be far more important. Also big guns would be useful to stop the ball being ripped away from you.

Scuba Ste

briankeating wrote: »

Good luck with getting one .

IMHO benching is fairly low down the list of exercises a GAA play should concentrate on.

Skills and conditioning are more important of course.

With regards to weight training I would have thought power cleans, squats, deadlifts and single leg variations of squats/DLs would be far more important. Also big guns would be useful to stop the ball being ripped away from you.

I'd think big guns have very little to do with holding onto a ball beyond dazzling your opponent with their hugeness.

I don't think power cleans are that useful either. Does anyone that actually trains people notice any difference from using power cleans vs not?

Mellor

briankeating wrote: »

IMHO benching is fairly low down the list of exercises a GAA play should concentrate on.

He was just looking specifically at benching, the GAA player was a different poster from 8 months ago.

benchppress wrote: »

What are the benefits of benching with a good powerlifter technique? I was doing the bench press in a gym and some crossfit knacker came over and told me i was doing it wrong and told me to google west side method.

What's a crossfit knacker?
And what has crossfit got to do with anything in your post.

As for technique, hard to say, maybe you were doing something awfully wrong or maybe it was just not quite competition form.

Hanley

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I'd think big guns have very little to do with holding onto a ball beyond dazzling your opponent with their hugeness.

I don't think power cleans are that useful either. Does anyone that actually trains people notice any difference from using power cleans vs not?

Power cleans- absolute waste for 90+% of the sports population. Most people can't do them right and aren't strong enough in the first place to see improvements in "power" with them.

No idea what a half stiff leg DL reverse curl shrug is gonna do for on the field performance tbh.

...good if done righht, of course. But usually not.

Thud

I think his question was in relation to the PL bench press method effectively shortening the distance the bar has to travel (by arching your back more and bringing chest closer to bar).

Does this enable you to hit higher PR's compared to the standard benchpress method (slight arch) due to the shorter distance or is this actually increasing you strenght more?

deadlybuzzman

When the crossfit knacker (presumably someone with an argos gold chain, celtic/shams jersey, cap hanging off the back of his head and drinking dutch gold in between kipping pull ups ) said he was dong it wrong maybe he seen his feet or arse moving mid set.
Doing riverdance towards the end of a set is common enough

RidleyRider

I'm 5'11 and 73kg, maxed out in my bench press yesterday at 65kg. I do it at a reverse incline though. Any one have any experience doing this way?

Hanley

Steve Marquis wrote: »

I'm 5'11 and 73kg, maxed out in my bench press yesterday at 65kg. I do it at a reverse incline though. Any one have any experience doing this way?

A decline? Yes.

RidleyRider

Hanley wrote: »

A decline? Yes.

Yes:P I couldn't think of decline!

cc87

Hanley wrote: »

Power cleans- absolute waste for 90+% of the sports population. Most people can't do them right and aren't strong enough in the first place to see improvements in "power" with them.

No idea what a half stiff leg DL reverse curl shrug is gonna do for on the field performance tbh.

...good if done righht, of course. But usually not.

One of the top intercounty teams dont have any form of olympic lifting in their programming purely because of this. Few of them can competently perform them and as the coach doesnt have a huge amount of time with them they can only do exercises with a lower skill level (jumps, throws, speed work etc)

benchppress

rumour has it all the donegal football team can snatch 100kg+

Hanley

benchppress wrote: »

rumour has it all the donegal football team can snatch 100kg+

Is that they can pull a 100kg+ snatch?! Because that's one lumpy lady if so :D

Brian?

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I'd think big guns have very little to do with holding onto a ball beyond dazzling your opponent with their hugeness.

I disagree, strong arms are definatly an advantage in a sport where the opposing player is constantly trying to tear the ball out of your grip.

I don't think power cleans are that useful either. Does anyone that actually trains people notice any difference from using power cleans vs not?

I have no idea, being able to power clean correctly is cool though. Really cool.

augustus gloop

in GAA terms the full clean would prob be alot more help, maybe

Hanley

augustus gloop wrote: »

in GAA terms the full clean would prob be alot more help, maybe

An even more complicated move with more flexibility and mobility needs would only "help" them find an injury.

If you can't do a power clean right, you've no hope on a real clean.

Scuba Ste

briankeating wrote: »

I disagree, strong arms are definatly an advantage in a sport where the opposing player is constantly trying to tear the ball out of your grip.

Really? I'd have put skill, leg strength, core strength and probably shoulder stability and or strength but mostly skill above the gun show. I'm sure someone who knows can contradict me but aren't the biceps strongest at or near full flexion? How much difference will arm strength really make?

I have no idea, being able to power clean correctly is cool though. Really cool.

Not nearly as cool as a full clean

Scuba Ste

Hanley wrote: »

An even more complicated move with more flexibility and mobility needs would only "help" them find an injury.

If you can't do a power clean right, you've no hope on a real clean.

Even if mobility etc isn't an issue, how useful are cleans? Particularly in comparison to just strengthening the hip muscles; glutes, hams, quads, and considering all strength work is just accessory work for non strength athletes and you could do some ballistic work like jumps.

I'm not trying to say they're useless but more disagreeing with them being recommended almost always with squats and deads etc for athletic performance.

augustus gloop

Hanley wrote: »

An even more complicated move with more flexibility and mobility needs would only "help" them find an injury.

If you can't do a power clean right, you've no hope on a real clean.

calm down buddy, I meant if both are done with good form.... thats all Im sayin

Hanley

augustus gloop wrote: »

calm down buddy, I meant if both are done with good form.... thats all Im sayin

So cool you could skate on me.

In the real world they're not done with good form. Discussing it as a concept when it doesn't match reality is nothing more than mental masturbation.

augustus gloop

Hanley wrote: »

So cool you could skate on me.

In the real world they're not done with good form. Discussing it as a concept when it doesn't match reality is nothing more than mental masturbation.

yep, fair enough, i hear ya

Brian?

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Really? I'd have put skill, leg strength, core strength and probably shoulder stability and or strength but mostly skill above the gun show. I'm sure someone who knows can contradict me but aren't the biceps strongest at or near full flexion? How much difference will arm strength really make?

I put them all ahead of arm strength as well in my response. I just added that arm strength will also help. Fielding a high ball, ones arm will be near full flexion btw.

Not nearly as cool as a full clean

Oh I completely agree. Neither are as cool as a snatch either.

deadlybuzzman

After reading this I asked a workmate that plays senior club gaaball what he thought. His take was that core strength (not just abs) for a stable base, strong biceps to hold the ball and in a distant 3rd shoulder/chest/tri strength to hold off opponents when everything gets bogged down in 1 spot.
Personally I wouldve thought pushing strength wouldve rated higher but you learn something every day

Hanley

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

After reading this I asked a workmate that plays senior club gaaball what he thought. His take was that core strength (not just abs) for a stable base, strong biceps to hold the ball and in a distant 3rd shoulder/chest/tri strength to hold off opponents when everything gets bogged down in 1 spot.
Personally I wouldve thought pushing strength wouldve rated higher but you learn something every day

Shoulders mean f*ck all if you don;t have the legs and core to support them.

deadlybuzzman

True-its the old 'cannon in a row boat' thing. Personally I think addressing individual weaknesses is the only way to go, the skinny young fella that works in a call centre playing up front for a team probably has very different needs to the block layer thats nearly twice his age playing at the back.

BlueIsland

not even close to an expert on any of this to be able get into massive debate on it but sure just curious reading posts. Are the big lifts (squat, presses, rows etc) really independent of core work as people seem to be always saying they are the best way to build your core strength? What im thinking is that building a programme around the big lifts with some core work at the end of each session gets you in the right shape for g.a.a? So its not about doing one thing or the other rather that they are all important?

diegowhite

If they currently are playing matches with their team they are probably better focussing on skill work and conditioning (sprinting drills, farmers walks etc anything that mimics the games moves) with a lesser focus on maintaining/improving basic strength and then when they get to break between seasons hammer the strength work in the basic moves and look to get as strong as possible in that time