Smolov Veterans - read here please :)

G86

Just started Smolov today and it didn't quite go to plan..

I worked the % out with my current 1rm which is only 60kg so didn't envision any problems.. that was my first mistake!

Basically I was meant to be doing 4 sets of 9 reps at 42kg. But I got:
9
8
6
4!

(42.5kg)

Not sure what to do now, whether to scale down the weight and continue with the base cycle that way, or do the introductory cycle instead.


Thanks in advance if you can steer me right!:)

the drifter

is 60 your all out PB nothing left in the tank?

any time ive ran it i knocked 10kg off my PB and went from there....

G86

the drifter wrote: »

is 60 your all out PB nothing left in the tank?

any time ive ran it i knocked 10kg off my PB and went from there....

It is now, but I was repping at 60kg 6 months ago so figured I'd be alright..seems not!!

Go from 50kg so ya think?

Nervous Wreck

I made the same mistake a few weeks ago, G. Had been able to rep 150kg a few months ago but hadn't hit it for a single in a while. Went with it as my max anyway and failed day 4 of the first week. If I run it again any time soon, I'll be knocking 10kg off the top, as drifter said.

Hanley

Rotten decision.

ACTUAL current max * 92% = smolov "max" to base your percentages off

And don't add 10kg in week 2 and 5kg in week 3.

5kg and 2.5kg maybe.

(hint - 60kg sounds a lot more than your current max if you failed that hard on day 1)

G86

Hanley wrote: »

Rotten decision.

ACTUAL current max * 92% = smolov "max" to base your percentages off

And don't add 10kg in week 2 and 5kg in week 3.

5kg and 2.5kg maybe.

(hint - 60kg sounds a lot more than your current max if you failed that hard on day 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMMvkxgt8gM

Squatted 60kg 2 weeks ago with solid depth, so it's pretty current in fairness...?? Tbh I'm putting the missed reps more down to technique as I know some reps fly up and other wind up shady because I revert back to my old way!

Also..elaborate in the rotten decision please?

Thanks:)

G86

Ahhh fcukity fcuk. I thought this was a great idea, but it's been pointed out to me that it's kinda not...:o

I just wanted to increase my squat AND have a proper outlined progressional structure to it - Smolov seemed to cover both bases. Plus I've a bit more free time for the next 2 weeks so figured it'd be a good time to get started with something, considering I've been coasting the last while. I know I need to work on my technique, but I was getting bored with the 5x5s/5x3s...didn't feel like I was pushing myself much.

Weh! I guess this thread is kinda redundant now!

the drifter

did you run the introduction micro cycle?

G86

the drifter wrote: »

did you run the introduction micro cycle?

No. that's what I was saying when I posted there orig - had been wondering whether to scale the weight or do the intro instead.

the drifter

Do the intro...dear god do the intro...

G86

the drifter wrote: »

Do the intro...dear god do the intro...

Tbh after 3 different people telling me it's a bad idea, I'm not even sure I'm doing it now at all!

I kinda see the logic..

Sangre

G86 wrote: »

the drifter wrote: »

Do the intro...dear god do the intro...

Tbh after 3 different people telling me it's a bad idea, I'm not even sure I'm doing it now at all!

I kinda see the logic..

Mind posting logic for us? For science...

G86

Sangre wrote: »

Mind posting logic for us? For science...

I only fixed up my tech again recently, and it was never great in the first place either. So, my reps tend to be pretty hit and miss. I could get one hell as easy set at 50kg, and then next day be grinding out a rep at 40kg. Piling on the weight when my tech is like that might not be a great idea.

BUT, on the other side of it - I really could do with the motivation/commitment I'd have to put into it. And I really want/need to increase my squat, so maybe if I concentrate on form and hold back on adding weight if it starts to go full on dodgy then it's do-able.

Or maybe not. I don't really know now.

Hanley

G86 wrote: »

I only fixed up my tech again recently, and it was never great in the first place either. So, my reps tend to be pretty hit and miss. I could get one hell as easy set at 50kg, and then next day be grinding out a rep at 40kg. Piling on the weight when my tech is like that might not be a great idea.

BUT, on the other side of it - I really could do with the motivation/commitment I'd have to put into it. And I really want/need to increase my squat, so maybe if I concentrate on form and hold back on adding weight if it starts to go full on dodgy then it's do-able.

Or maybe not. I don't really know now.

Without trying to be bad, I hope you're not counting that 60 as one of the fixed tekkers one... Start doing a high volume cycle with bad movement and you only ingrain it more and make it harder to fix in the long run.

It's not really surprising you missed reps having seen the 60. You can slip into bad movement patterns to compensate on max singles but not repeatedly for high rep sets because the movement is so in efficient.

If you're dead set on doing it I'd pick a weight you can do a single with absolutely rock solid picture perfect form, and use that as the starting weight. And I'd make sure every rep I did during the cycle looked perfect too.

If you go chasing numbers without fixing tekkers you'll bottom out really quickly on your gains and risk injury.

G86

It's an improvement...trust me! Sure I was falling over with an empty bar before that

Agh guess I'll give it a miss so.

Cheers for the advice

Edwardius

Just to add, you need to remember that smolov is over 500 pretty hard reps and they get progressively more horrible towards the end. If you have any movement issues going into it, then week three will be a complete sh!tfest, so aside from ingraining crappy movement patterns as Hanley mentioned you'll probably break something. Looks like the lower back is taking up the slack a lot in that 60kg squat and the bounce looks "looser" than it should. if you don't have that nailed down very well then the bounce will pitch you forward very easily and piss your back off even more. Just don't do it.

GASMANN

G86 wrote: »

It's an improvement...trust me! Sure I was falling over with an empty bar before that

Agh guess I'll give it a miss so.

Cheers for the advice

i wouldnt give up at the first hurdle, why not drop your weight as said previously and start again

G86

Dead Ed wrote: »

Just to add, you need to remember that smolov is over 500 pretty hard reps and they get progressively more horrible towards the end. If you have any movement issues going into it, then week three will be a complete sh!tfest, so aside from ingraining crappy movement patterns as Hanley mentioned you'll probably break something. Looks like the lower back is taking up the slack a lot in that 60kg squat and the bounce looks "looser" than it should. if you don't have that nailed down very well then the bounce will pitch you forward very easily and piss your back off even more. Just don't do it.

This actually makes sense based on yesterday; I did fall forward a few times and had to set up again to get my balance.

This is a set at 32.5kg, does it look any different? Is it my lower back kind of rounding at the bottom that's the main problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrA31lJ3YOg

Just trying to figure out if that's a max effort prob or if they're all still pretty dodge . Took those vids the first day I started back squatting again, so to be honest it was that much of an improvement that I was just happy not to be falling over!!

G86

GASMANN wrote: »

i wouldnt give up at the first hurdle, why not drop your weight as said previously and start again

Tbh I'm usually the worst person for taking criticism well ever, so I'm trying to learn when to shut up and listen:o I can see how repping with sh1t form will wreck me, but at the same time I do want to do something with more of an outline to it than just doing 5x5 and doing 'what I feel I can on the day' weight wise, because I much prefer having a solid plan. I guess I'll have to have a think about it and just stick with the 5x5s for now.

Edwardius

Look at the position of the bolt on the sleeve of the bar on the descent and ascent and compare them. They should be basically the same but it's still drifting forward in your case. As your hams are bouncing off your calves it's opening your knee angle but leaving your hip angle the same momentarily. These angles should open almost simultaneously to avoid pitching forward so you need more tension in the hams and arse and also think about ramming your head backwards from the ascent. I wasted about two years with the same issues and am barely getting a handle on them now.

G86

Dead Ed wrote: »

Look at the position of the bolt on the sleeve of the bar on the descent and ascent and compare them. They should be basically the same but it's still drifting forward in your case. As your hams are bouncing off your calves it's opening your knee angle but leaving your hip angle the same momentarily. These angles should open almost simultaneously to avoid pitching forward so you need more tension in the hams and arse and also think about ramming your head backwards from the ascent. I wasted about two years with the same issues and am barely getting a handle on them now.

I see exactly what you mean with the bar moving, thing is if I sat back any further I'm pretty sure I'd fall flat on my ass - which I guess is another prob in itself.

I'm not too sure what you mean about my hip angle opening? In fairness, I've been told I need to do a hella lot of hip mobility work..I should probably do that more often!

Edwardius

Check the end of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm1CwVNo4Zk

Khaki is essentially moving as one unit here. I know you're training for powerlifting but this kinda illustrates the simultaneous opening of the hip+knee angle better than a vid of a PL squat. As well as the cues, you need moar glutez!

Edwardius

G86 wrote: »

I'm not too sure what you mean about my hip angle opening? In fairness, I've been told I need to do a hella lot of hip mobility work..I should probably do that more often!

Look at the angle your femur makes with your torso and watch it at the point when you bounce. It doesn't really change in that fraction of a second while the angle of your femur+tibia opens (although your shins don't really drift back too much, prolly because the stance is wide ish. Do your knees drift in?). This is when you should wallop the head backwards like ninja boy here (he seems to exaggerate it well):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Elx5WbzH4

G86

Dead Ed wrote: »

Khaki is essentially moving as one unit here. I know you're training for powerlifting but this kinda illustrates the simultaneous opening of the hip+knee angle better than a vid of a PL squat. As well as the cues, you need moar glutez!

Cheers for that. On the PL thing, actually had someone helping me a few weeks ago who advised me to switch to a more Olympic style tech on it. I moved from low bar to high bar, started doing deeper, and changed my grip, and it definitely made a difference. Any time I revert back to the old way now I essentially good morning it (more so!).

Maybe more glute/hamstring supp work is the way to go for the meantime.

G86

Dead Ed wrote: »

(although your shins don't really drift back too much, prolly because the stance is wide ish. Do your knees drift in?).

Yup, if I don't make a conscious effort to push them out they always drift in, it's been pointed out to me a good few times.

Edwardius

G86 wrote: »

Maybe more glute/hamstring supp work is the way to go for the meantime.

Definitely, but I think you should also focus on assistance which requires you to extend your femur when your knees are bent so that you can cue this when you're squatting (split squats, lunges and all that stuff) as well as the RDL/GHR stuff. Again, this is anecdotal but I found it helpful.

Hanley

Dead Ed wrote: »

Just to add, you need to remember that smolov is over 500 pretty hard reps and they get progressively more horrible towards the end. If you have any movement issues going into it, then week three will be a complete sh!tfest, so aside from ingraining crappy movement patterns as Hanley mentioned you'll probably break something. Looks like the lower back is taking up the slack a lot in that 60kg squat and the bounce looks "looser" than it should. if you don't have that nailed down very well then the bounce will pitch you forward very easily and piss your back off even more. Just don't do it.

100% this.

GASMANN wrote: »

i wouldnt give up at the first hurdle, why not drop your weight as said previously and start again

I would - I'd fix the problems rather than chasing the weight.

To be a big CF bender - mechanics, consistency, intensity.

G86 wrote: »

This actually makes sense based on yesterday; I did fall forward a few times and had to set up again to get my balance.

This is a set at 32.5kg, does it look any different? Is it my lower back kind of rounding at the bottom that's the main problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrA31lJ3YOg

Just trying to figure out if that's a max effort prob or if they're all still pretty dodge . Took those vids the first day I started back squatting again, so to be honest it was that much of an improvement that I was just happy not to be falling over!!

You're "soft" at the bottom and lookng for the easiest method to get the weight up. You're allowing yourself to be pitched forward because that's how you're used to it and it's probably how you're strongest right now.

You're well capable of 32kg without that happening, which illustrates my point that movement problems and not pure strength is the first issue.

G86 wrote: »

Cheers for that. On the PL thing, actually had someone helping me a few weeks ago who advised me to switch to a more Olympic style tech on it. I moved from low bar to high bar, started doing deeper, and changed my grip, and it definitely made a difference. Any time I revert back to the old way now I essentially good morning it (more so!).

Maybe more glute/hamstring supp work is the way to go for the meantime.

I would look at working harder on correcting technical faults tbh.

Slow the movement down, take like a 4 second eccentric, you'll feel yourself getting pitched forward, fight to keep up right. Wall squats should illustrate the point quite well for you too - try to wall squat doing what you're doing now and you'll get a face full of concrete

G86

Hanley wrote: »

Slow the movement down, take like a 4 second eccentric, you'll feel yourself getting pitched forward, fight to keep up right. Wall squats should illustrate the point quite well for you too - try to wall squat doing what you're doing now and you'll get a face full of concrete

I've also already been told to do the 4sec thing a few times...and I always MEAN to, but then I get halfway down and have a heart attack that I'm going to fall over and forget about it!:o

A guy in Korea tried to get me to wall squat once.... I nearly broke my face.

I think my prob at the moment is I can feel it if I start going forward as far as I used to, but I can't feel it happening if I just go forward a bit like in the above vids. I guess that'll come with more repping with the right form though.

Hanley

Also - sit too upright high bar squatting and you will fall arse over tit. That's just the way it is. Probably especially so for you because you seem to have long legs.

You may need to lean forward enough to prevent it, but that lean is established on the way down and should be maintained, it shouldn't change as you drive out of the hole.

G86

Ok, thanks guys, back to the drawing board so!

kevpants

Is it too late to disagree with everything and say she should do Smolov but that the weight was just too heavy?

Also didn't realise doing 500 reps would be engraining bad habits, I thought it would me more like practice?

I don't think the squats look too bad, over-thought if anything.

Keep in mind you can improve technique while getting stronger. You don't have to drop back weight everytime you try something new. My own squat has morphed constantly over the past few years but at no point did I think it worthwhile to stop trying to get stronger while adjusting my bar position, foot position etc.

In fact I KNOW if I spent a month with 50% on the bar making sure my back angle was nailed down I'd completely lose it again with 90% on my back.

People are forgetting the very argument everyone made against 5/3/1. It all goes to sh1t when things get heavy. They're also forgetting one of the plusses of Smolov, that nothing makes your squat better than 30-40 reps a session 3-4 times a week.