Speed Vs Power !!!! The Great Debate

tryingmybestt

Speed vs power....

what do you feel is more important for a professional boxer...

not mentioning any other attributes such as chin, boxing ability etc. etc.

just focusing on these 2 attributes, which one do you feel is more important when it comes to title success??

who does better:

A) boxer with average speed and KO power

boxer with A1 speed and average power

barney4001

id go for power a puncher always has a chance no matter what

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

i'd agree with that...

also ko power brings excitement and bigger paydays

cowzerp

B
Speed is king

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

your right a poll is better suited

Mellor

An average punch, at great speed. Will have the same result as raw power.

Speed for me.
But you can't jus isolate attributes like that

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

Mellor wrote: »

An average punch, at great speed. Will have the same result as raw power.

Speed for me.
But you can't jus isolate attributes like that

i wouldn't agree with that

look at ppl like mayweather, meldrick taylor, whitaker etc.....all had great speed but not one punch ko power

Mellor

tryingmybestt wrote: »

Mellor wrote: »

An average punch, at great speed. Will have the same result as raw power.

Speed for me.
But you can't jus isolate attributes like that

i wouldn't agree with that

look at ppl like mayweather, meldrick taylor, whitaker etc.....all had great speed but not one punch ko power

You are missing the point.
Force is mass x acceleration. In that increased speed has an effect on power. The two arent mutually exclusive.

What in getting at us that simply "speed" or "power" aren't quantified. So it's very subjective.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

Mellor wrote: »

You are missing the point.
Force is mass x acceleration. In that increased speed has an effect on power. The two arent mutually exclusive.

What in getting at us that simply "speed" or "power" aren't quantified. So it's very subjective.

i think there have been many boxers with

A) average speed and ko power e.g. foreman, arguello, shavers etc.
great speed and average power e.g. mayweather, ivan robinson, meldrick taylor etc.

so i feel one can differentitate

speed definitely contributes to power but not all fast boxers have power so in saying that speed = power imo isn't right

Mellor

Where I say speed = power. :rolleyes:

Its just too vague. Whats average, how good is great etc.
I picked speed as I fell great speed makes a great fight. you'll get hit less and land more. Even with average power, you'll be ther winner.
KO power is only good if you can land it. But, somebody might might consider the OP to mean extreme power, knocking out guys for fun.

corny

Its the punches you don't see that have the power.:)

Mayweather's an excellent example btw. Even you're massively heavy handed you still can't land cleanly on him. Speed at the highest level wins every time.

SupaNova

corny wrote: »

Its the punches you don't see that have the power.:)

Mayweather's an excellent example btw. Even you're massively heavy handed you still can't land cleanly on him. Speed at the highest level wins every time.

But that is not just speed again, it is defense. Take Khan for example, possibly quicker than Mayweather, but doesn't have the defensive skills to match.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

SupaNova wrote: »

But that is not just speed again, it is defense. Take Khan for example, possibly quicker than Mayweather, but doesn't have the defensive skills to match.

exactly

its just about comparing speed v power, nothing else

i think there's plenty of examples of A and B doing well in boxing

cowzerp

In general been fast is key to landing shots and not getting hit, you can have all the power you want but if you can't land it's useless, most boxers considered the best ever where fast, Ali, sugar ray Leonard, Tyson, the ones like foreman are just monsters and not slow by any means.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

cowzerp wrote: »

In general been fast is key to landing shots and not getting hit, you can have all the power you want but if you can't land it's useless, most boxers considered the best ever where fast, Ali, sugar ray Leonard, Tyson, the ones like foreman are just monsters and not slow by any means.

the thread is great power with average speed or great speed with average power

if one chooses great power with average speed, this doesn't mean they are too slow to land their power. It's average speed, plenty fast to land their power

similarly the other option will be somone very fast with average power, still enough to hurt ppl, just not top notch single punhc ko power

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

the thread is great power with average speed or great speed with average power

if one chooses great power with average speed, this doesn't mean they are too slow to land their power. It's average speed, plenty fast to land their power

similarly the other option will be somone very fast with average power, still enough to hurt ppl, just not top notch single punhc ko power

And speed is still king.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

both are important....it comes down to personal opinion and preference

i think ko power is more important

also i prefer watching big bangers than speedy guys

walshb

Mellor wrote: »

You are missing the point.
Force is mass x acceleration. In that increased speed has an effect on power. The two arent mutually exclusive.

What in getting at us that simply "speed" or "power" aren't quantified. So it's very subjective.

I see what you are saying. I know well speed is very important as regards force, but in boxing, some people no matter how fast they are are simply not "naturally" heavy handed. Hector Camacho could throw his shots faster than bullets and still he wouldn't be heavy handed. Others can throw with a lot less speed and generate more power. Natural heavy handed fighters.

Men like G-Man, Bruno, Foreman etc were born heavy handed hitters. For the non natural heavy handed fighters, e.g Ali, speed then becomes very important for them when they want to generate force.

No matter how fast some other men threw, they simply could never generate that natural and raw force that a natural hitter has. It's inside their body.

They are born with it, and proper training and delivery simply makes the natural hitters complete.

As for what I would go with: Very slightly leaning with average power-great speed. Very slight.

Historically I think boxers that could be labeled in this category have done better than those labeled in the other category.

walshb

Then there are men like Tyson and Louis, natural heavy hitters, with very good speed too, which of course, adds to the damage that their shots did.

Imagine Foreman being given an extra 10-20 percent speed:eek:

He wasn't slow, but his shots were more thudding, and heavy. Laboured. Not a fighter you associate speed with, to put it this way!

When natural power is equal, then speed is the real determining factor in force generated.

In boxing terms, speed AND delivery are the factors

So, Foreman vs. Foreman with 10-20 percent extra delivery speed? Wow!

Daroxtar

If you think power is more important than speed then have a look at Carl Froch v Andre Ward for just one recent example.
Power only beats speed if speedy has a weak chin. Seeing as chin is not being taken into account then you have to back the faster guy.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

Daroxtar wrote: »

If you think power is more important than speed then have a look at Carl Froch v Andre Ward for just one recent example.
Power only beats speed if speedy has a weak chin. Seeing as chin is not being taken into account then you have to back the faster guy.

i dont think that fight contrasts speed v power because there were so many toher areas ward was better than froch at such as:

boxing ability
defence
footwork
timing
etc.

there many examples of when hard hitters dominated fast fighters but similarly other factors can play their part too

Daroxtar

tryingmybestt wrote: »

Daroxtar wrote: »

If you think power is more important than speed then have a look at Carl Froch v Andre Ward for just one recent example.
Power only beats speed if speedy has a weak chin. Seeing as chin is not being taken into account then you have to back the faster guy.

i dont think that fight contrasts speed v power because there were so many toher areas ward was better than froch at such as:

boxing ability
defence
footwork
timing
etc.

there many examples of when hard hitters dominated fast fighters but similarly other factors can play their part too

All wards attributes were enhanced by speed. Faster feet, faster hands, head and body movement, counterpunching, ability to avoid shots... Froch was no bad boxer, he has lovely power and a granite jaw but he just couldn't deal with ward being faster all round.

How about pacman v diaz? Speed destroyed power

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

Daroxtar wrote: »

All wards attributes were enhanced by speed. Faster feet, faster hands, head and body movement, counterpunching, ability to avoid shots... Froch was no bad boxer, he has lovely power and a granite jaw but he just couldn't deal with ward being faster all round.

How about pacman v diaz? Speed destroyed power

ward was much the better boxer and much more technical..

this thread is comparing spped v power on the basis that all other attributes are equal such as equal chin, boxing ability, defence etc.

i don't get the diaz v pacman point?

pacman was much faster and had much more power......diaz was slow and lacked ko power.....he was strong and fit but very limited

Wild_Dogger

SPEED beats POWER

.........but.............

TIMING beats SPEED

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

TIMING beats SPEED

agree, and a good jab

walshb

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

SPEED beats POWER

.........but.............

TIMING beats SPEED

And good timing requires speed! My head hurts.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

good timing can help a lack of speed.....if you time your punches e.g. right over the jab, or slip inside past their right hand and bang the left hook to the body.....this is timing and doesnt require more than average speed

walshb

Daroxtar wrote: »

All wards attributes were enhanced by speed. Faster feet, faster hands, head and body movement, counterpunching, ability to avoid shots... Froch was no bad boxer, he has lovely power and a granite jaw but he just couldn't deal with ward being faster all round.

How about pacman v diaz? Speed destroyed power

I missed the last bit of your post. Pac won because Diaz is average/good, and Pac is great. My take.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

I think Mick Dowling said it well last night during the egan/ward scrap when he said.....'a man with power is never beaten'

what he meant was even if a guy is losing every round, if he has ko power he can always win with a single punch e.g. foreman v moorer or chavez v taylor

if a guy is losing every round and he doesnt have ko power then he is truly beaten

this is why i believe ko power is a slightly better attribute than great speed

Jayob10

tryingmybestt wrote: »

I think Mick Dowling said it well last night during the egan/ward scrap when he said.....'a man with power is never beaten'

what he meant was even if a guy is losing every round, if he has ko power he can always win with a single punch e.g. foreman v moorer or chavez v taylor

if a guy is losing every round and he doesnt have ko power then he is truly beaten

this is why i believe ko power is a slightly better attribute than great speed

its a bit of a wishy washy comment in my opinion. A guy with power is beaten if he is crude and can't land a glove on his opponent. I wouldn't say he is never beaten, rather he has a chance at landing a big shot. All sorts of variable factor come into it, are we presuming the speedster has poor defence and chin? if so then of course the power puncher stands greater chance of winning.

When you say speed, you have to take into account speed of reflexes not just speed of hands. Footwork speed to get in and out and quick reflexes will beat a power puncher 9 times out of ten. He will be hitting fresh air.

Its just too subjective to call who would win in a battle of speed v power when in essence its the other aggregate attributes of the fighters that would decide such an issue.

In their purest form Speed wins. Provided the power puncher wasn't quick himself

walshb

If we take that ALL other things are equal (by equal, let's rate them good, because if we rate them great, then chin being great means most likely fighter B never wins). eg, stamina, defense, feet, chin etc are all eual, and the only two differences are: Fighter A is noticeably faster with HANDS, and fighter B is noticeably heavier hitting with HANDS, then I may lean towards the puncher in the majority of matces.

Edit: Generally, in the real world, (where there are so many permutations) I would slightly lean with average power-great speed.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

Jayob10 wrote: »

its a bit of a wishy washy comment in my opinion. A guy with power is beaten if he is crude and can't land a glove on his opponent. I wouldn't say he is never beaten, rather he has a chance at landing a big shot. All sorts of variable factor come into it, are we presuming the speedster has poor defence and chin? if so then of course the power puncher stands greater chance of winning.

When you say speed, you have to take into account speed of reflexes not just speed of hands. Footwork speed to get in and out and quick reflexes will beat a power puncher 9 times out of ten. He will be hitting fresh air.

Its just too subjective to call who would win in a battle of speed v power when in essence its the other aggregate attributes of the fighters that would decide such an issue.

In their purest form Speed wins. Provided the power puncher wasn't quick himself

the thread is about which atribute is more important

it is assuming all other attributes are equal as I've already clarified...

as i said at the beginning of the post:

A) fighter with average speed and ko power
fighter with A1 speed and average power
all other attributes equal

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

walshb wrote: »

If we take that ALL other things are equal (by equal, let's rate them good, because if we rate them great, then chin being great means most likely fighter B never wins). eg, stamina, defense, feet, chin etc are all eual, and the only two differences are: Fighter A is noticeably faster with HANDS, and fighter B is noticeably heavier hitting with HANDS, then I may lean towards the puncher in the majority of matces.

Edit: Generally, in the real world, (where there are so many permutations) I would slightly lean with average power-great speed.

this point makes no sense and is totally contradictory !

Jayob10

tryingmybestt wrote: »

the thread is about which atribute is more important

it is assuming all other attributes are equal as I've already clarified...

as i said at the beginning of the post:

A) fighter with average speed and ko power
fighter with A1 speed and average power
all other attributes equal

Its still too subjective, define speed in this instance??? far too vague to make a call on this.

Handspeed? Speed of reflexes, footwork????

If someone is lightning fast in all of these areas he beats a big puncher with average speed in these areas every day of the week.

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

Jayob10 wrote: »

Its still too subjective, define speed in this instance??? far too vague to make a call on this.

Handspeed? Speed of reflexes, footwork????

If someone is lightning fast in all of these areas he beats a big puncher with average speed in these areas every day of the week.

ok I'll try and be more specific

when i say ko power i mean someone like arguello, jackson, trinidad etc.....that power of punch that puts u to sleep when touched

when i say speed i mean speed of punch.....someone of mayweather's class, or meldrick taylor, roy jones etc....not footwork, reflexes etc.

if boxer a has great ko power then all other attributes are avergae

if boxer b has great hand speed then all other attributes are equal

Jayob10

tryingmybestt wrote: »

ok I'll try and be more specific

when i say ko power i mean someone like arguello, jackson, trinidad etc.....that power of punch that puts u to sleep when touched

when i say speed i mean speed of punch.....someone of mayweather's class, or meldrick taylor, roy jones etc....not footwork, reflexes etc.

if boxer a has great ko power then all other attributes are avergae

if boxer b has great hand speed then all other attributes are equal

well if that was set out in earlier posts then i apologise for the confusion.

In this case (and it would be an exceptionally specific case) then i'd go with the power puncher. He could simply walk through the quicker punchers shots.

Kiko v Dunne would be a prime example, although all other attributes are not the same in this case, Dunne being the better all round fighter.

walshb

tryingmybestt wrote: »

this point makes no sense and is totally contradictory !

Wasn't directed to you, and I am not at all suprised that it makes no sense, to you.

Jayob10

jaysus lads sort it out ya can nearly smell the tension :cool:

tryingmybestt

B) boxer with great speed and average power

haha

some ppl don't like you to challenge their view, especially when you give a clear reason why it makes no sense

walshb

Jayob10 wrote: »

jaysus lads sort it out ya can nearly smell the tension :cool:

Can't beat a good ding-dong on a Saturday afternoon!