EPG's on FTA combo boxes

Mike 1972

In the DTT world Saorview are using standard "Nordig"/MHEG5 spec whereas Freeview using their own concoction called "D-Book" leading to all sorts of incompatabilities with non-proprietry equipment and software.

But what is the situation with regard to the EPG data used by the likes of Sky, Freesat and Real ?. Are they all using closed propriety standards or are any of them available (legally of course) to FTA box users or is there any other way of getting proper EPG data (not just "now and next") on a FTA box ?

I have an MVision HD200 combo box. It supposedly has USB PVR functionality but without a proper EPG this is pretty useless really

Ive heard suggestions that there might be unofficial firmware updates out there somewhere which would enable one to recieve the Freesat EPG on such equipment but Im not sure about the legalities of doing so

watty

All three of those use different proprietary EPG. (Well assuming REAL ever actually has a pay package otherwise theirs will not last long).

Some boxes unofficially read the Freesat EPG.

Saorview & Saorsat use plain DVB for the full EPG, like some German Sat stations. Even if they add an MHEG EPG application the existing EPG would remain and be the underlying data for the application.

Sky use "Open TV" which belongs to Thomson and isn't open. NDS (Sky sister company) has an EPG middleware that they sell to UPC cable for Netherlands, It's not known if Sky will change to it.

The Full implementation of Freesat includes Autotuning (As does Sky's) and is a different EPG solution to that used on Freeview!

The Saorview/Saorsat EPG has no autotuning as it's just DVB. Auto tuning won't be needed after ASO.

Some boxes do have the program guide part (only) of Freesat EPG, but can't advertise or sell it or even guarantee that it will continue working. DVBviewer has this.

Other programs (Windows Media) and boxes use the Internet and download XML files to populate the EPG listings for UK channels. It's not needed for Saorview/Saorsat.

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

All three of those use different proprietary EPG..

Is there a name for the versions used by Freesat and Real

watty wrote: »

Sky use "Open TV" which belongs to Thomson and isn't open.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

watty wrote: »

Some boxes unofficially read the Freesat EPG.

Does "unofficially" = "illegally" or is it something of a grey area ?

watty

Freesat is "UK D-Book"
REAL Digital may be irrelevant http://nds.coi.gov.uk/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=422566&NewsAreaID=2 It's an MHEG5 application locked via Conax encryption to the card, which is paired to box, and ONLY a REAL Digital supplied box will pair with the REAL Digital card. If card is cancelled or removed, no EPG! That is seriously worse than Sky. I suspect the MD of Information TV has replaced David Henry as MD of REAL Digital.

Freesat has copyright. However the information isn't encrypted, just compressed and if it's only being used personally to view the Freesat channel using non-Freesat independent software, then it's likely not illegal. But neither I nor Boards can give legal advice!

But it can't be marketed as a feature. Basically though only "Freesat HD" approved boxes (the maker joined the D-Book club) can be reliable and 100% compatible with Freesat info which is not limited to either the MHEG5 (which is identical to Saoview) or the Program listings.

So for UK TV I recommend an actual Freesat HD box.

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

REAL Digital may be irrelevant http://nds.coi.gov.uk/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=422566&NewsAreaID=2 It's an MHEG5 application locked via Conax encryption to the card, which is paired to box, and ONLY a REAL Digital supplied box will pair with the REAL Digital card. If card is cancelled or removed, no EPG! That is seriously worse than Sky..

So no REAL Digital CAM's for those with the appropriate slots on their recievers I take it ?

watty

Indeed.
Only REAL digital boxes (they are overpriced to help pay for the service). Assuming it doesn't go bankrupt in the next few weeks.

STB

Mike 1972 wrote: »

In the DTT world Saorview are using standard "Nordig"/MHEG5 spec whereas Freeview using their own concoction called "D-Book" leading to all sorts of incompatabilities with non-proprietry equipment and software.

But what is the situation with regard to the EPG data used by the likes of Sky, Freesat and Real ?. Are they all using closed propriety standards or are any of them available (legally of course) to FTA box users or is there any other way of getting proper EPG data (not just "now and next") on a FTA box ?

I have an MVision HD200 combo box. It supposedly has USB PVR functionality but without a proper EPG this is pretty useless really

Ive heard suggestions that there might be unofficial firmware updates out there somewhere which would enable one to recieve the Freesat EPG on such equipment but Im not sure about the legalities of doing so

Freesat deliver the EPG program data via MHEG5. This data is broadcast on a couple of transponders, mainly one. The DVB EIT is truncated to Now Next per the transponder it is broadcast on.

Freesat MHEG is opensource. It has been for some time. They have even released the toolkit and source code they use for implementing red button services. It is how it was released as a firmware update on particular NON Freesat approved MHEG5 combo box quite recently (Triax).

The Non Linux boxes that have unofficially being grabbing the EPG data have been doing so from 2 sources- either the Freesat transponder or the Sky opendata transponder. For example the Technomate software writers released an unofficial patch that grabs this Sky epg data and loads it to the internal memory of the box itself. If there isnt enough internal memory to dump the data then it can also be done to a USB stick. The Fortec Passions grab the Freesat data.

Its also widely available on Linux boxes under various patch implementations.

It is likely that RTE may develop an MHEG based EPG in the future. At the moment they are broadcasting the full 7 days via DVB EIT. The BBCs etc maintain that this takes up bandwidth and thats why it aint available on Freesat.

The MHEG on freesat is doing more than just managing epg tables as Watty has pointed out.

@ Watty. I have read that Christian and Lars have done considerable work on this for DVB Viewer and have licensed an MHEG engine for use with their program in DVBViewer which is working according to screenshots I have seen.

watty

I have the DVBviewer and the MHEG5 plugin. It's 100% now on RTE/Saorview, but on BBC if I select a menu option with video (i.e. reb button sport nmultiscreen) in MHEG5 it puts video up and crashes. The video/audio keep running. But UI gone and a Windows message "click to close application". However it's working for other people. I have very old "beta" of 1st Technotrend DVB-S2 cards, XP pro with a cheap Nvidia card, so my problem could be the renderer.

2 X PCI DVB-S2 cards on a multiswitch with 28, 19, 13 & 9E (ku till March) and a Mobi USB dual DTT stick that ONLY on that PC is occasionally not recognised at boot (fine on 4 laptops from 10 year old P4, Atom netbook with Ion gfx and triple core mad gamer machine).

MHEG5 is completely royalty free and open and in theory UK & Ireland are using the same version. but its an application engine and not all of the D-Book applications are publicly published.

Mike 1972

STB wrote: »

Freesat deliver the EPG program data via MHEG5. This data is broadcast on a couple of transponders, mainly one.

Which one

And if my STB supports MHEG5 shouldnt I be able to access the EPG

Are there firmware patches for Mvision combo boxes and if so (and assuming its legal) where ???