GF's car gets towed away from apt carpark in UK

kearneybobs

This has only after happening yesterday (I'm pretty annoyed about it) but the girlfriends car was towed away yesterday from her private carpark in apartment in the UK.

She brought the car over to the UK in September and had let her insurance lapse. She hadn't been driving it since then (October) as it had a few niggling problems and she hadn't changed over the reg and hadn't taxed it either. After getting it fixed, she planned to change over the reg etc so she could drive it but came home yesterday to notice that her car had been removed from the carpark where it had been parked for the last couple of months. She at first thought it was robbed. But after contacting the county council over there she eventually found out from the the apt management company that they had the car towed away.

Now, the towing company are trying to charge her £228 for releasing the car after keeping it over night and if she doesn't collect it today, she'll have to pay £500 on Monday for them to release it.
I'm so annoyed right now. The car parking spot even comes with the rent for the apt.

I'm so annoyed right now and dont really know if there is any recourse. The car is probably only worth about €1000-1300 so paying €700 to release it and then having to pay to register it over there too might just be too much hassle.

Wolverine_1999

I'm guessing someone reported it as long term standing.. none of their business to be honest to begin with. They probably thought your GF had gone back to Ireland.

Is there a number on the space where she was parked which would link to her apartment number? I would start here to prove that the car was legally parked as part of the rent agreement. The management company should be liable for any costs for towing then as your GF was not contacted prior to removing the car.

ballsymchugh

contact the police and report the car as stolen.
if it was on private land then the insurance/tax shouldn't matter. the management company aren't there to enforce laws in that regard.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/aug/17/wheel-clamping-ban-private-land

carbon nanotube

the police would nail her for having the car untaxed, uninsured, and no plates i am sure

the apt company should reimburse her for the hassle, they should not care if the car is taxed or whatnot as long as the tennant(s) pay rent and the particular spot is part of the aggrement.

so my call is that the apartment company are liable.

Berty

If it was parked in a designated space then you can basically park it there for eternity so long as you pay the rent and the car is not pissing fluids all over the place.

Contact the landlord first of all I say and say that the management company have more or less stolen your car and it is being held on foot of a ransom. Remember it is private property so a civil matter not a police matter. You can have the car uninsured and taxed as long as it doesn't touch a public road.

cabrwab

I wouldn't think the cops would care if its being off the road.
Still property taken without consent if parked in her space i don't see the problem.
I personally would tell the Management company to sort it get your car back to the space asap.

corktina

whereas there are several matters there which MAY be of concern to the Police and Customs, the OP needs to pursue the management Company IF the vehicle was properly parked in accordance with her agreement with them. Basically, if they have acted incorrectly, they will have to climb down.

Can't see how it could happen in the first place assuming that a space is allocated or a permit was on the vehicle.

subway

call the popo on this one.
property has been stolen

JustAddWater

subway wrote: »

call the popo on this one.
property has been stolen

He can't, he's in the UK not the Bronx

kearneybobs

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

I'm guessing someone reported it as long term standing.. none of their business to be honest to begin with. They probably thought your GF had gone back to Ireland.

Is there a number on the space where she was parked which would link to her apartment number? I would start here to prove that the car was legally parked as part of the rent agreement. The management company should be liable for any costs for towing then as your GF was not contacted prior to removing the car.

There's no number on the space. It's a barriered carpark which you need a code to raise the barrier. There's enough spaces in there for one car per apt.

ballsymchugh wrote: »

contact the police and report the car as stolen.
if it was on private land then the insurance/tax shouldn't matter. the management company aren't there to enforce laws in that regard.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/aug/17/wheel-clamping-ban-private-land

The Management company weren't very helpful at all and said that her beef lies with the towing company. She told them that it was them that asked them to remove the car. They were haivng none of it.

It turns out that in the rental agreement they stipulate that all cars that use the car park must be roadworthy and have a valid tax. (Hers wasn't taxed.) He also told her that they usually give them 5 day notice for that sort of thing but she last turned the car over on Sunday so the notice definitely wasn't there then.

carbon nanotube wrote: »

the police would nail her for having the car untaxed, uninsured, and no plates i am sure

the apt company should reimburse her for the hassle, they should not care if the car is taxed or whatnot as long as the tennant(s) pay rent and the particular spot is part of the aggrement.

so my call is that the apartment company are liable.

As far as I'm aware, once the car doesn't touch a public road, you wont need to tax it.

This is so frustrating. I think she's decided to let the towing company keep it. It would just be too much money to release it AND get it towed back to the apt. Even if that were to happen, there is still no guarantee that the car will be there come tuesday. They'd probably just tow it away again and she'd be down somewhere in the region of £400.

That on top of getting it reg'd, taxed, and MOT'd it would just be way too much money for her. Especially for the value of the car. So annoyed.

subway

JustAddWater wrote: »

He can't, he's in the UK not the Bronx

Oh right, op you need to dial nine hundred and ninety nine on your ringing talk handle

Berty

kearneybobs wrote: »

It turns out that in the rental agreement they stipulate that all cars that use the car park must be roadworthy and have a valid tax. (Hers wasn't taxed.) He also told her that they usually give them 5 day notice for that sort of thing but she last turned the car over on Sunday so the notice definitely wasn't there then.

If it does say that and it was signed then that's tough really. Shame but life. Worth reading these things I guess which is a hindsight thing.

Seems an odd stipulation to be in a rental agreement though.

bohsfan

Beer Baron wrote: »

Seems an odd stipulation to be in a rental agreement though.

The OP mentioned that there isn't specifically allocated parking per apartment. They probably have this clause so that someone living there doesnt buy a few cars to do up, or whatever, and park them all in the car park.

They should give written notice of their intention to remove 'dormant' cars. This might not always come in the form of a letter on the windscreen though. It could just be in the body of a letter sent to all residents or posted in a common area.

kearneybobs

Beer Baron wrote: »

If it does say that and it was signed then that's tough really. Shame but life. Worth reading these things I guess which is a hindsight thing.

Seems an odd stipulation to be in a rental agreement though.

Yeah. I thought it was odd but yeah. She looked at the tenancy agreement there and it's definitely in there.

bohsfan wrote: »

The OP mentioned that there isn't specifically allocated parking per apartment. They probably have this clause so that someone living there doesnt buy a few cars to do up, or whatever, and park them all in the car park.

They should give written notice of their intention to remove 'dormant' cars. This might not always come in the form of a letter on the windscreen though. It could just be in the body of a letter sent to all residents or posted in a common area.

Yeah. There was no written notice anywhere. Not on the car, in the apt block notice board or anything.

She has definitely decided to leave it. It would just be way too much money for here to get it all sorted and make it roadworthy over there.
She's now trying to find out if she'll be liable for anything else since she wont be getting her car back. That would just be a kick in the teeth for her if they then came along and said that she'll have to pay for it to be scraped too!

dr.fuzzenstein

I think the terms of that car park are obtuse enough to be invalid.
You cannot just write any old baloney into a contract, it has to make sense, also no notices where displayed, warning users of the carpark of a towing policy.
Solicitor and watchdog will sort that one out, I'd do it, purely for the principle of it, so I can get my car back and stick the bastards for the costs.
They might just clear up their policy in future and make sure people are aware of it.
Just because I write down a contract and stipulate that I get to kick the other party in the nuts, doesn't make it a valid contract.
As we say in Germany, paper is patient. You can write any old nonsense on it, doesn't mean it is valid or true.

listermint

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think the terms of that car park are obtuse enough to be invalid.
You cannot just write any old baloney into a contract, it has to make sense, also no notices where displayed, warning users of the carpark of a towing policy.
Solicitor and watchdog will sort that one out, I'd do it, purely for the principle of it, so I can get my car back and stick the bastards for the costs.
They might just clear up their policy in future and make sure people are aware of it.
Just because I write down a contract and stipulate that I get to kick the other party in the nuts, doesn't make it a valid contract.
As we say in Germany, paper is patient. You can write any old nonsense on it, doesn't mean it is valid or true.

As above, I would say that if you stuck a solictors letter to the Management agency and all members of the board for the apartment block you would see some return action on it.

cabrwab

Well that is the biggest pile of sh1te I've ever heard.

I wouldn't go quietly on this one.
Its still your property, technically on your leased bit of land they have no right to take it without attempting to make contact with you.

If they have to knock on every door in the complex to find out who owns the car then do so, giving the rightful owner a chance to rectify the problem.

That is the situation over here i cant imagine there is much difference over there i would see about contacting legal advice on this one.

Guy:Incognito

cabrwab wrote: »

Well that is the biggest pile of sh1te I've ever heard.

I wouldn't go quietly on this one.
Its still your property, technically on your leased bit of land they have no right to take it without attempting to make contact with you.

If they have to knock on every door in the complex to find out who owns the car then do so, giving the rightful owner a chance to rectify the problem.

That is the situation over here i cant imagine there is much difference over there i would see about contacting legal advice on this one.

It wasnt on her leased bit of land though. Theres no allocated spaces so you cant really lay claim to any bit as your own.

Surely the time to query a part of a document your signing is when your signing it and not wait to you break part of it then decide it shouldnt apply after not reading it.

kearneybobs

I really am tempted to follow it up with the watchdog, but by the time they get around to looking into it the car would be gone, scrapped etc. It's not as if the would pay her for the loss of the car after you santioned them to scrap it.
I think their policy of having roadworthy cars that are taxed is to stop people storing cars that are just junk, clogging up the carpark. There was no notice, she wasn't able to rectify it. So annoying.

antodeco

OP is your other half a student over in the UK?

Where To

All uninsured cars in the UK are now liable to seizure whether they are on the road or not.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696

SilverBell

where do i go from here wrote: »

All uninsured cars in the UK are now liable to seizure whether they are on the road or not.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696

Interesting link,

They've even got a grass-direct webform!! S'pose its only a matter of time before we get that here.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022073

kearneybobs

antodeco wrote: »

OP is your other half a student over in the UK?

Nah, But works for a Uni. Why'd you ask?

cabrwab

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It was on her leased bit of land though. Theres no allocated spaces so you cant really lay claim to any bit as your own.

Surely the time to query a part of a document your signing is when your signing it and not wait to you break part of it then decide it shouldnt apply after not reading it.

Well you can if the lease states parking space included, they have rented a parking space, technically rented a piece of land.
i agree the should've known the ins and outs of a contract, my argument is lack of contact to say we are stealing your property as your contract states we can if you don't keep road tax on it giving them an opportunity to fix it.

That link about the seizure of uninsured cars is an interesting development.

ballsymchugh

kearneybobs wrote: »

Nah, But works for a Uni. Why'd you ask?

students are exempt from having to register a car from their home country as long as they're going to go home with it after their course.
given that it's an irish car, i'd say there's some loophole there somewhere. you can't tax the car until it's imported so you could argue that you're waiting for the cogs in the DVLA to turn, which you implied you were in the OP anyway.

the car can't be taken if it's declared off the road (going by the link provided by where do i go from here), but you can't even do the SORN until you have the UK reg.
i'd be sure a competent solicitor could argue that for you. no harm in calling into the local police station anyway..... at a quiet time of the afternoon! if you can, try and deal with a PC, the civilians at the desk will try and bat you away if they can.

mathepac

Interesting the number of experts in UK law that have appeared.

Here are some of the issues not addressed:

• The lease is between OP's girlfriend and the land-lord / letting agent, this is who she needs to speak to
  
• Under UK road-traffic laws, a car must either be taxed or have a Statutory Off Road Notice, SORN, recorded with the DVLA in advance of the current tax expiring - unlike here you can't retrospectively declare it off-road
  
• Any car without a current tax-disc and without a SORN is subject to seizure
  
• Any property owner can specify in a lease any (legal) condition he or she wishes, such as all cars in their car-park needing tax or insurance etc.
  
• Any property owner has the right to ask a towing company to remove an apparently abandoned vehicle from their property for storage elsewhere
  
• The police have no role to play other than as another poster pointed out possibly issuing tickets for no tax, no insurance in a public place (a car-park is a public place), etc
  
• As above re seizure of uninsured vehicles
  
• Reading and understanding leases is always a good thing, before you sign them. (sorry)

The laws in the UK are very different to here, one of the main differences being in relation to enforcement. When in Rome, etc.

Sorry she lost her car but it is easy for us all to be wise after the event.

carbon nanotube

I am in the uk, and yes the cops come down hard on cars not taxed, as mentioned on the road or not.

they just whisk them away and crush them or wahetver the hell they feel like at that given time huh..!

so that wont help the op's cause, added to the fact the car had no plates or nothing.

the final resort is to complain that the car was taken with no notification, usually a letter it attached to the wipers with some clue that this car will be taken if its not taxed ASAP/.

if you do the latter its proably a legal thing as to whether you get the car back or not as the company had their asses covered in the t&c

Guy:Incognito

cabrwab wrote: »

Well you can if the lease states parking space included, they have rented a parking space, technically rented a piece of land..

It's not a particular soace though. It's more like access to the carpark. At the end of the day if you come home to park and theres no spaces left theres not a huge amount you can do.

If it was a particular numbered space it would be more akin to renting a specific piece of land.

dudara

kearneybobs wrote: »

It turns out that in the rental agreement they stipulate that all cars that use the car park must be roadworthy and have a valid tax. (Hers wasn't taxed.)

That's probably included so as to give them basis to tow old clunkers that people leave parked long term.

dr.fuzzenstein

I'd almost be tempted to buy another junker for £5 every week and just leave it parked there, just to annoy the leasing company.

Marcusm

cabrwab wrote: »

Well you can if the lease states parking space included, they have rented a parking space, technically rented a piece of land.
i agree the should've known the ins and outs of a contract, my argument is lack of contact to say we are stealing your property as your contract states we can if you don't keep road tax on it giving them an opportunity to fix it.

That link about the seizure of uninsured cars is an interesting development.

She cannot have leased a bit of land unless it is specifically identified and she has exclusive use of it (quiet enjoyment is the phrase). What her landlord has is a licence to park a car within the car park subject to the rules thereof and she effectively has a sub licence of that.

All that said, if the car park rules are not explicitly stated, the car was hardly validly interfered with. There is at this stage no "watchdog" for private campers and the LVT (tribunal dealing with rented property) is unlikely Jo deal with it.

You and/or your girlfriend should do some additional website research in the UK specifically as you'll undoubtedly find some experiences. If there was no notice of action, likely yiu'll find some draft letters you could send threatening action for extortion equivalent threats.

dr.fuzzenstein

What about the Protection of Freedoms Bill 2011?

Part 3: "Protection of Property from Disproportionate Enforcement Action"

• Chapter 1 reforms and repeals aspects of the powers to enter land and to review existing powers of entry legislation. It would implement restrictions as to the premises over which the power may be exercised, who can exercise them, and which conditions can be satisfied for them to be exercised.

• Chapter 2 makes a criminal offence the clamping or moving of a vehicle on private land. Section 99 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 is amended to extend and amend the powers of moving vehicles parked illegally or dangerously.

• Clamping of vehicles and provisions relating to charging registered keepers of vehicles where a contract has been entered into with landowners or their agents, dealt with by Clauses 54-56 and Schedule 4 of the Act. These would have the effect of making it possible for clients to attempt to reclaim unpaid 'parking charges' from the registered keeper of a vehicle in cases where it is not known who was driving at the time of the charge notice being issued. Clamping would be unlawful on private car-parks unless entrances are barriered[3] [4]

I don't know if that is in force yet or if it applies in your case, it seems to be a new piece of legislation, greatly curtailing the power to clamp or tow a vehicle on private land.
Check it out!

cabrwab

Never claimed I was or us an expert on uk it even Irish law for that matter there is a forum for that and all!!!

What I was saying was id be fu*king somebody out of it how dare they not inform me before touching my personal property before saying they were throwing my stuff in the bin!
And give me time to sort it out.

Either way the girl has decided to let them throw it in the bin!

I'd make sure they do destroy it but not pay a poxy penny for it!

Sorry for offending people with my lack of knowledge just saying id be a pig headed ignorant Irish paddy in this situation!

Terrontress

We haven't even heard what sort of car it is. Only its approximate value but owners always overvalue their cars.

So what do we know? Untaxed, uninsured, unroadworthy, sitting idle for three months. She obviously doesn't even need it if she has left it sitting there instead of fixing, taxing and re-registering it.

I reckon she has only decided she wants it once it was gone.

kearneybobs

Terrontress wrote: »

We haven't even heard what sort of car it is. Only its approximate value but owners always overvalue their cars.

So what do we know? Untaxed, uninsured, unroadworthy, sitting idle for three months. She obviously doesn't even need it if she has left it sitting there instead of fixing, taxing and re-registering it.

I reckon she has only decided she wants it once it was gone.

As far as I know, in Ireland the car being uninsured, untaxed etc are only relevant if you have it on the road. Obviously not the case in the UK.

The reason why the car was left there like that was because she couldn't afford to reg the car yet and the care needed to be repaired too. A mobile mechanic came out at christmas and fixed the car and she was planning on getting the car reg'd next week after she got paid.

Your assumption are wrong.

Having a car wasn't a necessity, but it is her car. Since it crapped out on her a while ago it wasn't an option for her to get it repaired when it happened first.
She was in the process of getting it sorted so she could use her car to help her get about, but we all know how that turned out.