Technisat HDFV 40sterlng - Bargain! OR NOT? possible incompatibility

liamtech

http://www.technisat.com/en_XX/HDFV/352-65-1278065515632/

SO there i was in london yesterday and i took a gander in currys at the Freeview HD line-up - i had heard the technisat was fairly cheap and it turns out they were indeed on sale. - 40quid seemed a bargain so i decided to take a punt, after all its still 100 quid on amazon!

I have a Humax T2 which im delighted with but ive more than one TV in the house and it never hurts to have a back-up! - Ive used the HDFS for a while with freesat and quite like it and in General Technisat make decent gear.. and ive always been a little curious about this one as i had not seen anyone one boards saying they had used it - a friend of mine was gonna go for one a while back but never bothered! so i thought why not???

HUM!

There are two possibilities here folks (imho)..

(A) I have had the misfortune to get a Faulty box which is no sweat as Technisat have always had decent customer care so, happy days?

(B) This box does not work with Saorview.... Period. Incompatible

when i initially set it up i was generally impressed but not surprised with the interface - basically its the Technisat Freesat Box but for terrestrial - identical menu's etc.

Installed perfectly and in no time picked up the Two MUXES which my Humax box and Philips TV pickup -

Then the fall....

After no more than 5 seconds on any of the RTE stations, (RTE1, RTE2HD, RTE News Now, etc) the picture vanishes and the screen goes dead...

but ONLY on the RTE channels - TV3, 3e and TG4 all work perfect and in crisp sharpness that puts even the Humax T2 to shame..

It took me about an hour of changing settings, and general head scratching to realise that the only thing linking the group of troublesome stations is ..... MHEG5!

Now this is obviously pure speculation and il immediately lable it as such... but the fact that TV3, 3e etc work absolutely perfect - great signal full epg info etc .. and every RTE stations, dies within a few second of switching on... seems to point to this does it not?

A detailed description of exactly what happens -

switch to 3e - perfect sharp reception - 100% - left it on for half an hour - no trouble - cant overstate the sharpness btw!

Switch to RTE1 - perfect sharp reception, and within 5 second picture and audio gone - menu still works as does digital Aertel but with no video or sound... you can switch to any of the stations and no trouble what so ever unless its an RTE one - after the picture/audio goes, you can check signal strength and its all there - once or twice while doing this the picture/audio will come back albeit briefly but it will never remain for long.

I reckon this must be some sort of software conflict bug as opposed to a fault - of course the only evidence i can offer for this is the fact of the TV3 and TG4 stations working perfectly -

in any case im gonna contact technisat and seek support but as its a Freeview HD box as opposed to saorview, i have a feeling i know what theyre gonna say!

Obviously not the end of the world for me as i still have my humax for now, but dissapointing! I really like technisat and would have loved to use this in conjunction with my HDFS!

ANy ideas, comments, or tests, that anyone can think of would be most welcome folks! i suppose if anyone can disprove my incompatibility theory by actually having one of these bad boys up and running that would be brill... perhaps someone knows a work around, or a setting that actually works (incidentally turning off interactive channel mode in settings doesnt work )

otherwise its on ebay with this one i reckon - cant see myself being back in london for a while so very little hope of a refund

sesswhat

You may be interested in this thread to see how Niman gets on with his.

Edit: I see you found it already!

Gerry Wicklow

Just a thought... in the past I've come across equipment that was country sensitive. Set to UK it showed FreeView, set Irl it showed SaorView. In either case it scanned the muxes but didn't bother to save the "wrong" ones.

liamtech

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Just a thought... in the past I've come across equipment that was country sensitive. Set to UK it showed FreeView, set Irl it showed SaorView. In either case it scanned the muxes but didn't bother to save the "wrong" ones.

thanks gerry.

Ive had a look but there is no country settings that i can see, on this box - could be a hidden menu i suppose?

in anycase i cant get freeview where i am presently located in dublin - i have a decent signal from saorview and as i said before tv3, 3e and tg4 work perfectly on it - 100% - its just the RTE stations that seem to be the issue - at this stage im trawling the web looking for a way to turn off the MHEG5 or in some way cripple it... havent found anything...

I was going to ring technisat but i can only imagine them saying that it is not designed for the irish market etc etc

that is still working on the assumption that it is the MHEG5 that is causing the upset of course... it may well not be the case! but as far as im aware this is the first time a Freeview HD box has had a MAJOR issue with saorview - my humax is working 100% - its a shame because i actually really like the technisat interface and the picture quality is brilliant!

im really looking forward to getting some feedback from someone else who has the technisat, and is using it with Saorview - if there having a problem then it is an incompatibility... if there not then obviously mine is faulty in which case ... back to technisat...

in troubleshooting the issue i have turned off dolby digital, subtitles, turned off PCM audio... all to no avail!

Does anyone know if there are any other distinguishing factors or differences between TV3, 3e and TG4 and their RTE counterparts - audio, video or other data?

NIMAN

Still haven't had the chance to get it hooked up.

I bought the box mainly cos it was cheap and I was always under the impression that any Freeview HD box would pick up Saorview.

This line from mpeg4ireland website:
A high definition UK Freeview STB or iDTV (mpeg4 / dvb-t2) will work with Irish DTT, as DVB-T2 is backward compatible with DVB-T.

I will try to get it connected very soon and let you know if I can get it working.

Mr. Rabbit

I bought the box mainly cos it was cheap and I was always under the impression that any Freeview HD box would pick up Saorview

.

Yep, saw it in Currys yesterday for £40 and was tempted. Glad I didn't now.

Wonder if it'll receive the new NI mini mux when it's up and running though ? It should do as it's supposed to conform to UK Freeview standards.

Mr. Rabbit

and TG4

Is TG4 not part of RTE ?

The Cush

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Is TG4 not part of RTE ?

No.

liamtech

it does seem to be related to MHEG5 folks - several of the test channels are also carrying digital Aertel, and they suffer from the same issues as the RTE channels, while the ones that are not carrying it work fine -

It still could be faulty i suppose - i rang technisat and they were unable to offer any advice on the issue -

STB

You will see an option for example on sample LGs that allows turning on MHEG5 or EBU according to what is broadcast (Irish spec).

Freeview spec does not include an option for Ebu text.

My guess is that the Saorview MHEG5 data carousel is crashing your Technisat.

Its a software bug.

Will technisat be interested ? Possibly if you tell them you are in a cross border area receiving both and point out its an interoperability issue and that their sales will be effected as such in these areas. Its the only way of not getting the UK use only.

liamtech

Its a good idea STB and im going to Email them now . . .

on a point of interest the technisat actually does display EBU Text for TV3 and TG4, so again this box would be a keeper if we could get it working - il be disappointed to have to flog it to be honest -

purely speculation: i noticed in an online video of Freeview HD that after about 3 or 4 seconds of watching a BBC station most Freeview boxes will display a 'PRESS RED' button in the top right corner (rather like Freesat Box does) - i wonder if because the RTE stations dont have this as yet, the technisat might be having difficulty in attempting to 'let the user know' that an interactive Teletext service is present?

A bit far fetched i know - but the way i see it is that if the MHEG5 were completely incompatible then how is it that the Digital aertel works>? even after the video vanishes, if you press TXT, it loads up nice and proper!

Anyhow im going to email technisat - fingers crossed;)

STB

liamtech wrote: »

Its a good idea STB and im going to Email them now . . .

on a point of interest the technisat actually does display EBU Text for TV3 and TG4, so again this box would be a keeper if we could get it working - il be disappointed to have to flog it to be honest -

purely speculation: i noticed in an online video of Freeview HD that after about 3 or 4 seconds of watching a BBC station most Freeview boxes will display a 'PRESS RED' button in the top right corner (rather like Freesat Box does) - i wonder if because the RTE stations dont have this as yet, the technisat might be having difficulty in attempting to 'let the user know' that an interactive Teletext service is present?

A bit far fetched i know - but the way i see it is that if the MHEG5 were completely incompatible then how is it that the Digital aertel works>? even after the video vanishes, if you press TXT, it loads up nice and proper!

Anyhow im going to email technisat - fingers crossed;)

Interesting on the EBU text.

Its a software glitch. I have seen MHEG5 crash some of the Sony KDL range a few years back and displaying the same symptoms, blank picture after a few seconds.

Record the Mux and email it to them. It is the only way you can replicate it. Despite the station not displaying have you tried recording from the epg and tried playing it back ? Does it display the epg data despite no audio/video ?

You might be lucky in getting someone in Technisat who is genuinely interested in seeing what the issue is from a techy point. They are doing a lot work in Germany with Multytext which is MHEG5 based.....

AFAIK the MHEG engine that Technisat use is S&Ts Red Key 2.

A lot of the developers have blogs.... google!

liamtech

STB wrote: »

Interesting on the EBU text.

Its a software glitch. I have seen MHEG5 crash some of the Sony KDL range a few years back and displaying the same symptoms, blank picture after a few seconds.

Record the Mux and email it to them. It is the only way you can replicate it. Despite the station not displaying have you tried recording from the epg and tried playing it back ? Does it display the epg data despite no audio/video ?

You might be lucky in getting someone in Technisat who is genuinely interested in seeing what the issue is from a techy point. They are doing a lot work in Germany with Multytext which is MHEG5 based.....

AFAIK the MHEG engine that Technisat use is S&Ts Red Key 2.

A lot of the developers have blogs.... google!

Hi Again -

1) I genuinely never thought to hook up a Hard drive to it for recording until i got the issue sorted! (Il give it a shot in anycase)

2) I can confirm that the EPG works splendidly regardless of whether im on an RTE station or now -

after the visual vanishes, if you go into the menu, the visual will return- but once the menu vanishes so does the visual!

Its kind of hard to explain - i have spent the last hour playing with the menu to see if there is a service section or hidden settings - no such luck!

STB

liamtech wrote: »

after the visual vanishes, if you go into the menu, the visual will return- but once the menu vanishes so does the visual!

Its kind of hard to explain - i have spent the last hour playing with the menu to see if there is a service section or hidden settings - no such luck!

After the station audio & video picture disaapears, you can load the text ? And the RTE Video (with no audio ?) within text reappears ?

Sounds like it is loading the station, then loading the data service from the data carousel and then crashing the TV service displaying. I am sure this will mean something immediately to someone in technisat's techs dept, should you get that far. It is important to emphasise that you are in a overspill area, Saorview's spec is also UK 1.06 and that other Freeview HD TVs do it seamlessly.....

S&T have also implemented Saorviews MHEG Presenter system......

liamtech

STB wrote: »

After the station audio & video picture disaapears, you can load the text ? And the RTE Video (with no audio ?) within text reappears ?

Sounds like it is loading the station, then loading the data service from the data carousel and then crashing the TV service displaying. I am sure this will mean something immediately to someone in technisat's techs dept, should you get that far. It is important to emphasise that you are in a overspill area, Saorview's spec is also UK 1.06 and that other Freeview HD TVs do it seamlessly.....

S&T have also implemented Saorviews MHEG Presenter system......

I have contacted them as discussed - To answer your question, after the audio and video vanish - and you press txt - the digital aertel displays perfectly with no video or audio - just the aertel page itself.

I attempted to explain to them in the email that i am willing to troubleshoot the issue with them however long it takes, so fingers crossed!

NIMAN

Sorry folks but not been able to get mine tried yet, been busy.

Will try and get it connected next day or two. Will get back to youse.

NIMAN

Sorry for the delay folks, but I got mine set up today, finally and I too have the same issue with the RTE channels.

Shame, I was hoping that I had got myself a Saorview PVR box for 40 quid.

Ah well.

liamtech

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry for the delay folks, but I got mine set up today, finally and I too have the same issue with the RTE channels.

Shame, I was hoping that I had got myself a Saorview PVR box for 40 quid.

Ah well.

Hey Niman - for what its worth i have emailed Technisat advising them of the difficulty, and requesting assistance - I will continue to try to seek a resolution before giving up and selling the box - it should be possible to TURN OFF the MHEG5 teletext at the very least and use the rest of the functions - i will of course PM you with any update i receive and post it to for the community in general - but until the matter is addressed the Technisat HDFV is not advisable as a bargain buy... as you said its a shame

NIMAN

Thanks for that Liam, keep me updated.

I noticed that that if you are on one of the RTEs and it blacks out, then you hit MENU,the picture and sound come back again under the menu.

Went through all the settings looking for ways of adjusting things that might help matters, but could see nothing.

liamtech

Hi Folks

Technisat FINALLY got back to me about the HDFV and confirmed that there is no fix for the issue with saorview - The unit is Fully Freeview HD compatible but will NEVER work with Saorview - Unfortunate

The first FREEVIEW HD box that doesnt work with saorview as far as i know - but will it be the last

watty

Given that part of their market is N.I. after October 2012 and over 50% of N.I. will be able to get Saorview, that's unacceptable.

It's not an MHEG5 issue as Ireland and UK use exactly the same profile and version. It's a stupid firmware bug they are unwilling to fix.

Technisat should be boycotted until they fix this. If the box was really fully "Freeview HD" compatible (and DVB and MHEG5 compatibility is implied), then it would work.
This box isn't suitable for Retail in part of UK, namely N.I.

Other "Freesat HD" models don't have this problem.

BTW unless it's got internal HDD and dual tuners, it's only got a "recording feature" not a PVR.

Mr. Rabbit

watty wrote: »

Given that part of their market is N.I. after October 2012 and over 50% of N.I. will be able to get Saorview, that's unacceptable.

It's not an MHEG5 issue as Ireland and UK use exactly the same profile and version. It's a stupid firmware bug they are unwilling to fix.

Technisat should be boycotted until they fix this. If the box was really fully "Freeview HD" compatible (and DVB and MHEG5 compatibility is implied), then it would work.
This box isn't suitable for Retail in part of UK, namely N.I.

Other "Freesat HD" models don't have this problem.

BTW unless it's got internal HDD and dual tuners, it's only got a "recording feature" not a PVR.

I wonder if it'll have similar issues with the NIMM ?

liamtech

watty wrote: »

Given that part of their market is N.I. after October 2012 and over 50% of N.I. will be able to get Saorview, that's unacceptable.

It's not an MHEG5 issue as Ireland and UK use exactly the same profile and version. It's a stupid firmware bug they are unwilling to fix.

Technisat should be boycotted until they fix this. If the box was really fully "Freeview HD" compatible (and DVB and MHEG5 compatibility is implied), then it would work.
This box isn't suitable for Retail in part of UK, namely N.I.

Other "Freesat HD" models don't have this problem.

BTW unless it's got internal HDD and dual tuners, it's only got a "recording feature" not a PVR.

You will get no argument from me Watty, im genuinely disappointed.. But it was stated on Joinfreesat.co.uk recently that Technisat may be planning to Pull out altogether from the UK market in which case they probably dont care anymore... very disappointing . . AND STRANGE!

I genuinely rated Technisat VERY highly - i used to use a Technisat SKYSTAR PCI card, which i genuinely loved, and i have a HDFS in my living room... Cant believe their reaction... and the fact they havent fixed the Freesat EPG on the HDFS... looks like i backed the wrong brand - Never would have thought it!

liamtech

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I wonder if it'll have similar issues with the NIMM ?

That would be another matter entirely! Id imagine they would HAVE to solve that - by the way is the Mini-Mux gonna be MPEG4 - i assume it will but that may mean that many users who are not HD will be stuck without RTE.

Its a shame about the technisat though - i love the user interface - perfect balance between ease of use and MASSIVE amounts of technical info..

watty

The Skystar was a Technotrend design. Last time I was at Amsterdam trade show a few years ago the Technisat stand gave the impression that they were moving into being a Marketing company selling rebadged TVs, which given margins and commodity nature didn't seem like a good idea.

I'm sceptical of the ability of Triax, Technisat and other similar companies to produce good embedded system software, consistently, for set boxes. Of course they don't need to hire very many good programmers, but good programmers with experience in this area are not freely available.

How does Vestel do it? They have two separate subsidiaries, one in UK and one in USA. One purely works on Software and the other Hardware designs. Turkey has the Management, Marketing and Manufacturing. The reason so many people are selling re-badged Vestels is that they are getting good at customising the firmware for the different Customers/Markets and they are producing the goods at acceptable quality and competitively. No company selling re-badged OEM stuff wants to see complaints or returns as they can't deal with them themselves. So buying a "rebadged" product may not be a bad thing after all

Mr. Rabbit

liamtech wrote: »

That would be another matter entirely! Id imagine they would HAVE to solve that - by the way is the Mini-Mux gonna be MPEG4 - i assume it will but that may mean that many users who are not HD will be stuck without RTE.

Its a shame about the technisat though - i love the user interface - perfect balance between ease of use and MASSIVE amounts of technical info..

I would imagine it should be OK but you never know.

Maybe somebody in NI should inform Currys stores in the province the box is not Saorview approved (since Technisat have admitted this). The Currys store at the Abbey Centre are selling them, and they are now badging some equipment (mainly Sony Freeview HD TVs) as Saorview compatable. There's nothing about the Technisat not working with Saorview on the display stand.

lawhec

Happened to notice some of these receivers being sold at Asda in Omagh for £30 today. If the bug that blanks the RTÉ Saorview channels is still present though that'll likely piss a lot of potential viewers off.

Incidentally, I wonder if turning on the subtitles for the RTÉ channels might bring the picture back? On most Freeview receivers turning on subtitles disables MHEG on that channel.

Gerry Wicklow

That bug was never fixed and also effected the BBC HD red button during the olympics.

jamesH12

I get spillover freeview from NI in the Rep and recently got an i Can HD Freeview box from richer sounds and it will not pick up the digital saorview channels. It's fine with the NI freeview channels.....I suspect it might be a regional thing as there's a menu section asking me to input primary region etc etc ( and it does seem to have NI as a region and RTE as a region!) , but nothing seems to help...has anyone used this box in the Rep. of Ireland .On the spec on the box it's a DVB T/T2 - but it makes no mention as to whether it's MPEG2 or 4 ? Otherwise very good value at £29 ! ( We have Saorview on other TV's in the house that are newer - so signal etc is good ).

jonnygee

Surprised at that as there have been other posts here advocating the i can as freeview and saorview compatible, please post back if you get this sorted as i am thinking of ordering some of these boxes from richersounds.ie for relatives who can get n.i. overspill.

STB

The Ican boxes. The LCN places the channels in the 800s as far as I have read.

FREETV

watty wrote: »

The Skystar was a Technotrend design. Last time I was at Amsterdam trade show a few years ago the Technisat stand gave the impression that they were moving into being a Marketing company selling rebadged TVs, which given margins and commodity nature didn't seem like a good idea.

I'm sceptical of the ability of Triax, Technisat and other similar companies to produce good embedded system software, consistently, for set boxes. Of course they don't need to hire very many good programmers, but good programmers with experience in this area are not freely available.

How does Vestel do it? They have two separate subsidiaries, one in UK and one in USA. One purely works on Software and the other Hardware designs. Turkey has the Management, Marketing and Manufacturing. The reason so many people are selling re-badged Vestels is that they are getting good at customising the firmware for the different Customers/Markets and they are producing the goods at acceptable quality and competitively. No company selling re-badged OEM stuff wants to see complaints or returns as they can't deal with them themselves. So buying a "rebadged" product may not be a bad thing after all

Vestel also make the Metronic Zapbox Freeview HD box which my Dad and I have and it has a software bug of not showing any information in the EPG for any of the Saorview channels. The old Alba Freeview HD and Goodmans Freeview HD boxes that we also have which were manufactured by Harvard PLC don't have that problem so it is definitely a software bug. Did anyone ever contact Metronic and Vestel about this software bug and try to get a software update/fix from them? Even an over the air update from Divis or Brougher Mountain, Wales etc would help anyone who owns Metronic Freeview HD boxes in Ireland.

dellWlan

jamesH12 wrote: »

I get spillover freeview from NI in the Rep and recently got an i Can HD Freeview box from richer sounds and it will not pick up the digital saorview channels. It's fine with the NI freeview channels.....I suspect it might be a regional thing as there's a menu section asking me to input primary region etc etc ( and it does seem to have NI as a region and RTE as a region!) , but nothing seems to help...has anyone used this box in the Rep. of Ireland .On the spec on the box it's a DVB T/T2 - but it makes no mention as to whether it's MPEG2 or 4 ? Otherwise very good value at £29 ! ( We have Saorview on other TV's in the house that are newer - so signal etc is good ).

Did you update the firmware? I believe that helps in getting both.