Notice of speeding fine with wrong plate number

Diabhalta

Hi all,

as the title says: I recieved a letter today which is saying that I was speeding last week in Cork. Garda with motorbike caught me doing ninety something in 60kmh zone. The thing is, that they say I was driving a car with a ZU xxxx plate on it, and my car has ZV plate (like every other car in Ireland which is 30+ years old). Now what to do? My opinion is: f that, wait for summons and tell them that I wasn't driving a car with ZU plate (nothing else). I'd say it's their fault and it's not my problem that they made a mistake.

---
something else now... I was googling what different Road Traffic Acts are saying about the evidence of speeding and I just couldn't believe my eyes what I've read in the section 81 of the Road Traffic Act 2010:

It is not necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.

It is not necessary to prove that the apparatus is of a type so approved.

It shall not be necessary to prove, as the case may be, the signature on the document or that the signatory was a member of the Garda Síochána or that the document was so issued.

Full version of section 81 here:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0081.html#sec81

Seriously, wtf? Cop has some ancient device from 80s and I just have to believe it whether I like it or not.

In other countries (those with only one tap in bathroom) nobody uses these laser guns, because they are pure bollocks... They cannot record any evidence and cop simply saying "I saw that" isn't enough.

grumpymunster

I would have thought you would be entitled to see a certificate of calibration for a piece of equipment which may put you off the road and perhaps endanger your employment. Still cant say it surprises me the right of the citizen in this country seems to mean very little to those in the corridors of power.

Diabhalta

put me off the road and endanger my emloyment? You mean the can throw me into prison or something? ... I don't really care about their ancient laser guns (I'm planning to buy a radar detector... they are not cheap, but definitely save money later... especially when used in a fast sports car like mine)... My main concern is now how to get rid off that speeding ticket in most easiest way.

Mr. Presentable

If it goes to Court you will be asked was it you. And you will either lie or get double points. You MIGHT get off because a small error was made, but if you were genuinely caught speeding you should take your medicine.

naoise80

Diabhalta wrote: »

My main concern is now how to get rid off that speeding ticket in most easiest way.

Pay it.

pa990

Diabhalta wrote: »

put me off the road and endanger my emloyment? You mean the can throw me into prison or something? ... I don't really care about their ancient laser guns (I'm planning to buy a radar detector... they are not cheap, but definitely save money later... especially when used in a fast sports car like mine)... My main concern is now how to get rid off that speeding ticket in most easiest way.

(you're funny ---- ancient laser.. buying a radar detector .... lol)


anyway.. you got caught, be a big boy and take your medicine,

as you said, 90+ in a 60 .. its not as if you were done for 5km over

Cuddlesworth

It was a data entry error. Why do I say that. If he had the wrong reg, you wouldn't have gotten the fine.

Your not going to get out of this one, pay the fine. A judge might not take kindly to you trying to avoid a ticket on the basis of a small error while having been caught travelling 150% of the speed limit.

mickdw

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It was a data entry error. Why do I say that. If he had the wrong reg, you wouldn't have gotten the fine.

Your not going to get out of this one, pay the fine. A judge might not take kindly to you trying to avoid a ticket on the basis of a small error while having been caught travelling 150% of the speed limit.

I agree with the above but I find it sickening that people can do sloppy work even when dealing with the courts system and then that the system will act in their favour.
Many people working in arguably less important jobs have to get the details right or else all is lost.
Why have the reg at all on the ticket?

User Friendly

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It was a data entry error. Why do I say that. If he had the wrong reg, you wouldn't have gotten the fine.

Your not going to get out of this one, pay the fine. A judge might not take kindly to you trying to avoid a ticket on the basis of a small error while having been caught travelling 150% of the speed limit.

And that small error could be enough to get the case thrown out.

pa990

User Friendly wrote: »

And that small error could be enough to get the case thrown out.

no necessarily, the guard will give evidence from his notebook, where he probably has ZV XXX written down, the U was probably entered by a civilian in the processing office in thurles, as a typo.

anyway the summons can be amended in court

Gophur

pa990 wrote: »

no necessarily, the guard will give evidence from his notebook, where he probably has ZV XXX written down, the U was probably entered by a civilian in the processing office in thurles, as a typo.

anyway the summons can be amended in court

If the summons is wrong, then the person charged is entitled to try to have it struck out. The Law is crystal clear, you are supposed to be guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. If you are charged with drivn a vehicle different to what you were in, then the summons is faulty.

That said, the Irish Legal system is peculiar. Some Judges may throw out the charge, but the prosecution can ask for an adjournment of the charge to a later Court, allowing them time to re-issue it with the correct details.

OP, you can appeal it, but there's a risk.

robbie99

OP, you are charged for speeding, i.e. driving faster than the speed limit.

The actual car you were driving does not really matter in this case. You could have been driving your own car, your wife's, a stolen car, maybe even a car with false plates on it doesn't matter. The Garda identified you as the driver who was speeding and what colour underwear you were wearing at the time doesn't matter a jot as to whether or not you were speeding. The Judge will want to be assured by the Garda as to what speed you were doing at the time and what plate number was on the car at the time doesn't change this.

coylemj

Gophur wrote: »

If the summons is wrong, then the person charged is entitled to try to have it struck out. The Law is crystal clear, you are supposed to be guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. If you are charged with drivn a vehicle different to what you were in, then the summons is faulty.

All fine and dandy but the District Court Rules allow the judge to make an alteration to the summons and in the OP's case the judge most definitely will do so.

The character of the offence will not change, it will be the same defendant and the same speed as alleged by the Garda, hence the law says the judge can change it and he will.

Pay the ticket, I wouldn't chance it and any solicitor who says it's worth a shot is only thinking of his fee.

tricky D

The judge will simply cross out the U and write a V in its place. Those types of trivial technicalities don't wash any more.

Vertakill

robbie99 wrote: »

OP, you are charged for speeding, i.e. driving faster than the speed limit.

The actual car you were driving does not really matter in this case. You could have been driving your own car, your wife's, a stolen car, maybe even a car with false plates on it doesn't matter. The Garda identified you as the driver who was speeding and what colour underwear you were wearing at the time doesn't matter a jot as to whether or not you were speeding. The Judge will want to be assured by the Garda as to what speed you were doing at the time and what plate number was on the car at the time doesn't change this.

Not really... the charge is he was speeding in a particular car - the Garda is supposed to identify you AND the car. All he's done so far is identify the OP.
If he was driving his wifes car, they would have to have the correct reg of his wifes car... or the stolen car and so on.
The Garda is meant to prove beyond any doubt that the OP was speeding whilst in the vehicle identified... which he wasn't because the vehicle the Garda is identifying in the letter is actually not the one the OP was in...

With that being said, I'd love if the judge just amended the letter on the charge and done you for as many points and euros as they could.
Why? Because you were doing 90 in a 60 and you're boasting about how you're going to buy a radar detector and really 'stick it to the man' by continuing to speed and trying to dodge fines that we both know you deserve.

Diabhalta wrote: »

Garda with motorbike caught me doing ninety something in 60kmh zone

Diabhalta wrote: »

Seriously, wtf? Cop has some ancient device from 80s and I just have to believe it whether I like it or not.

Seriously? You deserve a slap as well as a fine.

coylemj

District Court Rules, Order 12, Rule 2.

2. A Judge may amend any summons, civil summons, notice or counterclaim by adding or striking out parties or by amending such other defects and errors in any such document as may be necessary for the purpose of determining the real question at issue between the parties. Such amendments may be made in such manner as the Judge directs and upon such terms as the Judge thinks fit. If in the opinion of the Judge, the amendment is one which might prejudice any party to the proceedings in the merits of that party's case, he or she may make the amendment and, if necessary, adjourn the case or may refuse to make any such amendment and, if necessary, dismiss the proceedings.

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c609d7abff72c1c80256d2b0045bb64/e36122b3cdf0111080256d2b0046a097?OpenDocument

Scealta_saol

You should pay the fine. just get it over and done with..

That being said... Did you receive a letter in the post? If so how did they get your address? If they checked ZU XXX then they won't get anything from Shannon. There'll be no trace of a vehicle with that registration.
But, if they got your address from your licence if he pulled you over, then you'll have to deal with the fine. They've identified you.

SerialComplaint

Same issue for me this week. Just got a speeding fine with one digit from the reg number missing. Must have been some dodgy data-entry going on this week.

the culture of deference

If the reg number was completely different you may have a case
but ZU and ZV is very close. Did the garda have a photo or just a handheld.

The judge can amend this with the pros. garda and you attending the court. It cannot be amended any other way. The judge may give it a strike out or NO ORDER.

Strike out and you are clear

No order and the garda can re submit it with the correct details.

the culture of deference

OSI wrote: »

To those saying it should be struck out because the reg is wrong. Would you be happy for a driver to get off scot free after killing your child while speeding because the Gardai got the reg wrong? No? So why should this be any different.

People have gotten away with all types of crimes because of dodgy paperwork. Law is not based on common sense or logic.

Gophur

OSI wrote: »

To those saying it should be struck out because the reg is wrong. Would you be happy for a driver to get off scot free after killing your child while speeding because the Gardai got the reg wrong? No? So why should this be any different.

For the love of God, what a ridiculous analogy.
What if Hitler was driving the car? What if.........?

Deal with the facts and not what did not happen.