New Irish Rail Fare Structures.

Losty Dublin

At long last, the NTA have released details on the new fare structure for railway tickets on the Irish Rail Network.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/InterCity-Fares-Jan-2012-Press-Release.pdf

This file details the new rate for the majority of trips that the traveling public will make along with old and new fare rates. Some fare will increase while others will decrease, depending on criteria with the intention of trying to balance out fares onto a more level fare structure nationally. Irish Rail will still be allowed for offer internet/special rates that will be less than stated here; this change refers to the general ticket office rates.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/Intercity-Fares-Briefing-Final.pdf

And for those in need of bedtime reading, here is the consultants report from Booz MVA that has the meat and two veg of it all.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/MVA-Irish-Rail-Fares-Report-redacted.pdf

bk

Ouch, 5 day return gone, replaced by open return.

Cork to Dublin up from €71 to €77, which will mean €80 when booking online, ouch!!!

Can't wait for a direct non stop Cork to Dublin bus service to start, it will decimate this line.

Victor

Those links aren't working.

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

Those links aren't working.

Oh yes they are. Well, for me they are

noelfirl

Just worked for me.

dublinman1990

A 30% discount for the economy 1 and 2 routes look very promising IMO.

EXAMPLE BELOW

A ticket for an adult day saver from Heuston to Athlone would be €22 on Mondays to Thursday & Saturdays, it will be increased to €24 under the new fare structure. It will also include a €10 discount on Fridays and Sunday from €34 to €24.

That seems a very good structure to me.

Balagan

The new structure replaces the current wide variety of tickets on sale with just three options - a single, a day return, and an open return for use within 30 days of departure.

Can anyone clarify - will the monthly ticket still be available for those who commute daily?

dublinman1990

Balagan wrote: »

The new structure replaces the current wide variety of tickets on sale with just three options - a single, a day return, and an open return for use within 30 days of departure.

Can anyone clarify - will the monthly ticket still be available for those who commute daily?

open return ticket is the new name for the monthly return.

Balagan

dublinman1990 wrote: »

open return ticket is the new name for the monthly return.

You sure that open return ticket isn't just for one journey out and one journey back within 30 days?

What I am worrying about is the continued availablity of the monthly ticket under the Season Tickets heading - the weekly, monthly and annual tickets for daily commuters?

Park Royal

Am I reading this right... affluent Galway gets a reduction.....

while less affluent Sligo get a whacking increase......

who in their right mind is going to agree to that.....

Have these people come from MARS or what.....

finfinfin

bk wrote: »

Ouch, 5 day return gone, replaced by open return.

Cork to Dublin up from €71 to €77, which will mean €80 when booking online, ouch!!!

Can't wait for a direct non stop Cork to Dublin bus service to start, it will decimate this line.

aircoach.not direct but 22euro return is the kiddy!I know it takes just over 4 hours but its way comfier than the train too and a hell of a lot cheaper than driving and the poxy train.

dublinman1990

Open return (within 30 days of departure)

I have found this as well if it helps.

1 In relation to the above comparisons, it is important to note that certain fare categories have been withdrawn. In such instances, comparisons may be made with more than one new fare category e.g. the, now defunct, five day return is compared with both single and open return products.

It will be changed on Saturday week. I know it's not that long from now.

Although I am sure that you can still use the seasonal tickets though. I wouldn't see any problem with using them.

Do ask Irish Rail just in case if you're free.

Lapin

Park Royal wrote: »

Am I reading this right... affluent Galway gets a reduction.....

while less affluent Sligo get a whacking increase......

who in their right mind is going to agree to that.....

Me.

I'm from Galway

parsi

Madness as far as the Cork route is concerned. Sheer madness.

Maddening !

dowlingm

Park Royal wrote: »

Am I reading this right... affluent Galway gets a reduction.....

while less affluent Sligo get a whacking increase......

How the fsck is IE / NTA supposed to create a fare structure like that. So, Michael O'Leary lives in Mullingar - if his income drags up the average is it to be more expensive to get rail Connolly-Mullingar than Connolly-Sligo? :eek:

Some rich Yank will be looking at property in Sligo only to be driven off by pitchfork waving locals saying "feck off - if the likes of you settle here the CSO will consider us all richer and the price of the train will go up!"

ixoy

Balagan wrote: »

You sure that open return ticket isn't just for one journey out and one journey back within 30 days?

That's what I think it means too - judging by the table itself, that's what the ticket equates to. Just the one return journey.

Was Dublin-Galway then significantly more expensive per km than Dublin-Sligo? Because the fare increases on the Sligo route are to offset the smaller increases on the Galway line.

lucernarian

And ticket prices to the likes of Gormanston and Laytown are still ridiculous because they happen to share the same train line as the enterprise... :rolleyes:

bk

It is suspect that an obviously express intercity line like Dublin - Galway suddenly bundled in the Economy group and thus a price decrease.

I suspect it is due to the strong competition from GoBus and CityLink having an effect.

Roll on similar services to Cork.

dowlingm

bk wrote: »

It is suspect that an obviously express intercity line like Dublin - Galway

the one that was bustituted on a Friday until fairly recently? Dublin-Athlone maybe, given that it has Westport and Galway trains stopping (although some are joined together).

Corholio

bk wrote: »

Ouch, 5 day return gone, replaced by open return.

Cork to Dublin up from €71 to €77, which will mean €80 when booking online, ouch!!!

Can't wait for a direct non stop Cork to Dublin bus service to start, it will decimate this line.

Just to ask on this, is there a rumour there will be such a bus service? or more a hope there will be?

LXFlyer

Balagan wrote: »

dublinman1990 wrote: »

open return ticket is the new name for the monthly return.

You sure that open return ticket isn't just for one journey out and one journey back within 30 days?

What I am worrying about is the continued availablity of the monthly ticket under the Season Tickets heading - the weekly, monthly and annual tickets for daily commuters?

Balagan, you have no need to worry. Season passes remain available.

What this refers to is a ticket that covers one return journey which will now be valid for one month. In other words you will have 30 days to make the return journey.

The other poster has managed (not for the first time) to completely confuse the situation.

n97 mini

Indo today
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rail-users-face-13pc-hike-in-fares-3001899.html

And I remember doing Carrick-on-Shannon to Longford for £2.50.

mickydoomsux

This is all being handled rather haphazardly from our end of things. It supposedly happening on the 4th of February and yet the first that anyone in my district heard about it was on the news yesterday afternoon.

Stellar work by upper management as per usual.

n97 mini

That's cos you are all on the internet when you should be working!

superrdave

finfinfin wrote: »

aircoach.not direct but 22euro return is the kiddy!I know it takes just over 4 hours but its way comfier than the train too and a hell of a lot cheaper than driving and the poxy train.

I got a return to Cork online recently for €22 (admittedly I had to change at Mallow as I was on a Kerry train). Given the choice between the bus and train, I would always choose the train. Ability to get up and move around, proper space to work at with my laptop, reliability (usually) and the knowledge of your arrival time (more or less) .... the train wins hands down in terms of the enjoyability of the experience.

As long as they continue with the discounted online fares, I'll choose the train. You can definitely do it for the same price as the bus, or less.

rabbit assassin

Sorry if I seem stupid or whatever Im sorry I dont really follow the information given out on the website, but does this mean they are scrapping the Rambler ticket?

Losty Dublin

rabbit assassin wrote: »

Sorry if I seem stupid or whatever Im sorry I dont really follow the information given out on the website, but does this mean they are scrapping the Rambler ticket?

These changes applies to the general single/return fare structures only. Seasonal and special tickets such an annual tickets or the rambler or promotional rates are not being gotten rid of

mydiscworld

Corholio wrote: »

Just to ask on this, is there a rumour there will be such a bus service? or more a hope there will be?

More hopefull I'd say.

77euro return Cork to Dublin plus 2/3euro online booking fee? :mad:

vs Driving, costing c. 60euro return in petrol
(so already cheaper and quicker door to door)

vs A budding entrepeneur running such a non stop bus service.
(you'd make a killing asking 20/25/even 30euro return, be down around same time as train, and be smack in Cork/Dublin city, not stuck at the train station)

dowlingm

To me, IE got played the way British Airways and Aer Lingus got played by Michael O'Leary. They kept being told they were overstaffed so they cut people they perceived as expendable and converted to DMUs. This resulted in most train services having the amenities common to coach travel (including an engine within the passenger carriage), at a time when Bus Eireann (and the emerging private operations) were UPGRADING their offerings with more comfortable vehicles. If you turn the train into a bus on rails, the fares are going to become uncomfortably comparable.

What they should have done was make the on-train staff provide more services to the passengers rather than cut them as well as being ahead of the bus companies on services like wifi rather than playing catch-up.

I read a profile of Ryanair over the weekend that said cabin staff have a target to get 2 Euro from each passenger on board, but that on the week the profile was written only 1.45 had been made. Ryanair is synonymous with pressure selling etc. and that sort of thing can turn people off train travel but if staff receive the right incentives maybe there are ways to improve the offerings to passengers such that average revenue per passenger mile isn't solely dependent on what fare increase the NTA doles out.

whiteandlight

As long as the train is more expensive than petrol I won't be using it. 48.50 for me to go home for the weekend. It costs about 40 in petrol so it makes no sense for me to get the train. In addition was my husband to travel with me then the train would costs near 100e! It makes no financial sense to me. Yes it is nice to be able to relax on the train but not enough to make up for the prices.

bk

dowlingm, I don't know if that would make any difference.

The 22k DMUs aren't any less comfortable, then carriages, in fact in some ways they are better for what you are talking about as they have power at every seat, unlike the Cork trains and most bus coach services.

I'm always argued, since about 8 years ago that every intercity train should have free wifi and power at every seat.

As for staff offering a better service. I don't think people are really interested. Most people just want to get from a to b as quickly and cheaply as possible.

I really don't think people want much more then maybe a little food and coffee on longer trips. The level of service on the Cork train is probably just about right, if too expensive.

Victor

mydiscworld wrote: »

More hopefull I'd say.

77euro return Cork to Dublin plus 2/3euro online booking fee? :mad:

vs Driving, costing c. 60euro return in petrol
(so already cheaper and quicker door to door)

vs A budding entrepeneur running such a non stop bus service.
(you'd make a killing asking 20/25/even 30euro return, be down around same time as train, and be smack in Cork/Dublin city, not stuck at the train station)

1. Those are maximum fares, you can still do Cork-Dublin for €10 single.
2. To avail of the 'cheaper' car travel, you need to have a car and be happy to drive the distance.

bk

Victor wrote: »

1. Those are maximum fares, you can still do Cork-Dublin for €10 single.

Does are the fares that the vast majority of people pay. The €10 fares are allocation based fares. what the percentage is, no one knows, but I'd be surprised if it was more then 5% of tickets. In other words nothing but an advertising gimmick.

dowlingm

I wish I had your problems lads

Toronto-Kingston-Toronto (locohaul 95/100mph stock)
Outward 2h25
Return 2h45
Economy "supersaver" (changeable with a penalty fee per sector): $149.16 (EUR 112.65)
Business "discounted" (changeable with a penalty fee per sector): $336.74 (EUR 254.32)
Business "regular" (fully flexible): $372.90 (EUR 281.63)

And as for a clockface timetable...

I think IE's ticketing should become like VIA's - on any given service you can pick a more expensive fare within the same seating class if you think you might have to change it later. So your 10 Euro seat would be no-refund-no-change, 21 Euro would be refund-with-penalty, 37 Euro change with no penalty. As it stands it looks like all tickets are the same. When I'm travelling for work I usually get a no-refund for the outward but a changeable for the inward as I might get delayed or finish early.

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

I wish I had your problems lads

Toronto-Kingston-Toronto (locohaul 95/100mph stock)
Outward 2h25
Return 2h45
Economy "supersaver" (changeable with a penalty fee per sector): $149.16 (EUR 112.65)
Business "discounted" (changeable with a penalty fee per sector): $336.74 (EUR 254.32)
Business "regular" (fully flexible): $372.90 (EUR 281.63)

And as for a clockface timetable...

I think IE's ticketing should become like VIA's - on any given service you can pick a more expensive fare within the same seating class if you think you might have to change it later. So your 10 Euro seat would be no-refund-no-change, 21 Euro would be refund-with-penalty, 37 Euro change with no penalty. As it stands it looks like all tickets are the same. When I'm travelling for work I usually get a no-refund for the outward but a changeable for the inward as I might get delayed or finish early.

How much is the bus for the same journey?

bk

dowlingm as foggy_lad points out, buses kill the possibility of this.

Very difficult to do this when you can walk up to a bus and pay €22 return for a journey that takes almost the same time for bus.

Irish Rail like to think they are like the airlines, but they are not, they are taking on some of the airlines operating practices without really understanding the logic behind the airlines doing it and how rail is different.

Charging for booking online and seat reservation when it is cheaper and faster to go by car is madness. You just can't operate that way. Trying to charge even more for flexibility which was always given for free in the past will just drive even more people off the railways and onto the motorways.

LaFlammeRouge

foggy_lad wrote: »

How much is the bus for the same journey?

Why did i bother looking that up lol? Leaving tomorrow 31/1/12, $9ca 2hr40min journey time. http://ca.megabus.com

Megabus is great. You can travel Boston to New York for 10$. Also used megatrain in the UK to get a £30 train ticket for £7. They are the same crowd as Aircoach. Irish Rail will be focked when Aircoach run express Dublin to Cork. The main intercity rail route will be a ghost line.

dowlingm

Megabus is a great addition to the landscape - the more operators the merrier. They did have a rather nasty accident in the early stages though.

devnull

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

Megabus is great. You can travel Boston to New York for 10$. Also used megatrain in the UK to get a £30 train ticket for £7. They are the same crowd as Aircoach. Irish Rail will be focked when Aircoach run express Dublin to Cork. The main intercity rail route will be a ghost line.

No - MegaBus and MegaTrain have absolutely no connection with Aircoach. Totally separate companies although both founded in Scotland.

MegaBus (UK and America) and MegaTrain are part of Stagecoach who also operate two passenger rail franchises and shares in one other and are the second biggest operator of local bus services in the UK and longer distance coaches. The chairman of the Stagecoach group, Brian Souter has interests in Poland and New Zealand along with a few others that do not spring to mind.

Aircoach are currently part of FirstGroup who operate four passenger franchises and an open access operator in the UK. They are the countries biggest bus operator. They operated the Greyhound Coach brand in the UK, Mexico, USA and Canada and also operate First Transit and First Student in the USA.

I'm not sure where the idea that Aircoach are going to operate an express service has come from, it's all hearsay and rumour so I wouldn't bank on it happening.

mydiscworld

Anyone know how these new fares are going to affect the Student train prices?

Can't see anything on those tickets.

Victor

mydiscworld wrote: »

Anyone know how these new fares are going to affect the Student train prices?

Can't see anything on those tickets.

They will change, but not necessarily immediately. Announcement due Friday.

mydiscworld

No sign of an announcement so far. Prices going up tomorrow

Victor

While the announcement is likely to happen this afternoon, there are some things going on in the background.

foggy_lad

mydiscworld wrote: »

No sign of an announcement so far. Prices going up tomorrow

Do they not have to give a certain amount of notice(5 working days) for price increases?

Victor

Up now: http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=118&n=197

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

Up now: http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=118&n=197

That is a great improvement on the previous hit and miss selection of fares they listed. Well done to whoever suggested that method of listing fares.


Edit, My account has not been hacked:D:D

Judgement Day

Perhaps next they will invent the wheel public inter-city timetable. Last week I noted that they supply certain businesses and staff with the 2012 public inter-city timetable - identical to that previously on general sale - I would love somebody to explain the thinking and economics behind that. :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

Perhaps next they will invent the wheel public inter-city timetable. Last week I noted that they supply certain businesses and staff with the 2012 public inter-city timetable - identical to that previously on general sale - I would love somebody to explain the thinking and economics behind that. :rolleyes:

Are you saying they stopped selling this timetable book to the general public some time ago but have kept paying to have it printed for a select few businesses and staff? How large is the current print run i wonder and how many copies are wasted each year?

serfboard

Price

From this page

Single: €33.50
Day Return: €34.50
Open Return: €47.00

GoBus/Citylink:
Single: €10.00
Day Return: €20.00
Open Return: €20.00

And yes, I know IE will do promotional fares, but at the times a person would want to travel, the fares will be as above, whereas the bus fares are always the same.

Duration

While the 2.5 hours bus time is city centre to city centre, the just over 2.5 hours train time is (Galway) city centre to Heuston. You then have to change to the Luas to get into town.

Oh yeah, and the bus also serves Dublin Airport as well, without having to change.

Frequency

15 buses a day with Go Bus (17 on Sunday), 15 a day with Citylink (18 on Sundays), 15 a day with Bus Eireann all going at different times (quarter to, quarter past and half past the hour, respectively) giving 45 buses.

No contest.

Game Over.

foggy_lad

Bus Eireann are cheaper between Galway and Busáras,

Service 20X
14.00 : Adult Single
19.00 : Adult Rtn
19.00 : Adult Day Rtn
10.50 : Child Single
12.00 : Child Return
12.00 : Child Day Rtn
12.00 : Student Single
16.00 : Student Rtn
19.00 : Adult MW Rtn
12.00 : Child MW Rtn
38.00 : Family Rtn

And online fares are 5% cheaper again!

Victor

Well done to whoever suggested that method of listing fares.

Thank you. It has only taken since September 2008, but that is the way that some things work.

foggy_lad wrote: »

That is a great improvement on the previous hit and miss selection of fares they listed.

Indeed, there a re few more bits to come.

serfboard wrote: »

And yes, I know IE will do promotional fares, but at the times a person would want to travel, the fares will be as above, whereas the bus fares are always the same.

Singles seem to be €16.00 off-peak and €26.00 peak, with 20% off with the 02 codes. Fares of €1 have been available, not that they are sustainable.