Holistic/Folk Medicine

Sagesilver4

(Sorry in advance if this is the wrong thread to post this in - if it is, please tell me and I'll fix it!)

I remember being told a few years back that holistic medicine is illegal in practice in the UK, moreso than in the US, and that you couldn't even purchase/own books about such things legally. I tried googling it but I couldn't find anything one way or the other to tell me if this was true or not. Could someone please tell me if this is true or just a silly rumor? Thank you!

Westernman

Holistic means a whole body approch to dealing with an illness which is more often used in alternative treatment rather than conventional treatment.

From my experience if you go to a doctor with something like a skin rash they may simply just give you an ointment to deal with it. They rarely try to understand exactly what is causing it. However with an alternative practitioner say someone like a homeopath they will more than likely view this as the rsult of something else and try to understand what is causing it.

So holistic means to treat someone as a whole [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]being including the emotional, mental, and physical (both internal and external) environments in which they exis[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]t. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][/FONT]

Sagesilver4

Westernman wrote: »

Holistic means a whole body approch to dealing with an illness which is more often used in alternative treatment rather than conventional treatment.

From my experience if you go to a doctor with something like a skin rash they may simply just give you an ointment to deal with it. They rarely try to understand exactly what is causing it. However with an alternative practitioner say someone like a homeopath they will more than likely view this as the rsult of something else and try to understand what is causing it.

So holistic means to treat someone as a whole [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]being including the emotional, mental, and physical (both internal and external) environments in which they exis[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]t. [/FONT]

Oops! Seems I used the wrong word. Homeopathic may have been the word I meant to use. What I really meant was basically alternative medicine, like working with natural remedies and such. It's illegal here in the states to be a practitioner, and I was wondering if it was the same there. (It would be lovely to find that it's accepted there - I've been wanting so badly to do this for a living! )

Westernman

I have a friend in California who is a Homeopathy and I think she practices it I never knew it was illegal in the US, if you want her contact details PM me.

I think some european countries like France have restrictions but unsure.

Sagesilver4

Westernman wrote: »

I have a friend in California who is a Homeopathy and I think she practices it I never knew it was illegal in the US, if you want her contact details PM me.

I think some european countries like France have restrictions but unsure.

In the states you can practice natural medicine for yourself, but if you try to do it for others (for profit or otherwise) and the proper authorities get wind of it, you can go to jail for a good while (it's a felony if I remember correctly), because the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) never approved any of your remedies, so essentially they'd treat you like you were a snake-oil salesman or a marijuana dealer. It's a sad thing. You can't even give food you've grown for yourself to anyone, for profit or otherwise, anymore without getting their approval, which involves costly fees, not to mention all the chemicals they require you to taint treat your plants with in order to deem them as safe. Call me a hippie, but I like the things I put in my body clean, organic, and natural, thank you.

Westernman

How about places like the The Hippocrates Health Institute www.hippocratesinst.org which work through an holistic method to treat dis ease. Im sure there are many similar institutes like this in the US or even take a trip down to the Ann Wigmore Center in Puerto Rico

Sagesilver4

Westernman wrote: »

How about places like the The Hippocrates Health Institute www.hippocratesinst.org which work through an holistic method to treat dis ease. Im sure there are many similar institutes like this in the US or even take a trip down to the Ann Wigmore Center in Puerto Rico

Thanks for the link! I'm gonna give that a look-through. As for big institutes like this, they can get around it by sticking a warning label on everything: "None of this is approved by the FDA or is intended to cure, treat, or aid in any disease, illness, or disorder." or something to that effect. What I was saying before mainly applies to people who are practitioners of natural remedies on their own, without affiliation or pretense. I have a good friend who's utterly brilliant when it comes to this sort of thing - I have so much to thank him for - but no matter how much I learn, I can't start my own path practitioning it because it's illegal to do so and my husband worries for what would happen to me if I got caught. That's why I wondered if it were legal there - I want so badly to help people with natural cures like my friend does, you know?

Oryx

Well they have a homeopathic hospital in London. So not illegal there, in fact its part of the NHS.

Mack_1111

I'm pretty sure Patrick Holford has some sort of alternative treatment center/institute in London as well.

InTheTrees

There's also Naturopathy, which also uses a holistic approach. I've no experience of it though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathy

Westernman

I believe the most important thing we should all learn and understand is about diet and how it can cure.

One of the most important books about healing is "The China Study" by Colin Campbell, Ph.D and Thomas M. Campbell M.D

Hanley

Westernman wrote: »

I believe the most important thing we should all learn and understand is about diet and how it can cure.

One of the most important books about healing is "The China Study" by Colin Campbell, Ph.D and Thomas M. Campbell M.D

Can....O'....Worms.

Hanley

Westernman wrote: »

I believe the most important thing we should all learn and understand is about diet and how it can cure.

One of the most important books about healing is "The China Study" by Colin Campbell, Ph.D and Thomas M. Campbell M.D

You should try The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf too.

Zamboni

Westernman wrote: »

I believe the most important thing we should all learn and understand is about diet and how it can cure.

One of the most important books about healing is "The China Study" by Colin Campbell, Ph.D and Thomas M. Campbell M.D

You forget the 'IMO' at the end of that

g'em

Holistic medicine - when you take the view that to treat someone, you need to take their whole psychological and physical person into consideration - is a perfectly acceptable medical view. Things get murky and fall into the 'alternative' medicine point of view when you start seeing malaise and disease as being a result of imbalances in a person's emotional or energetic state.

A GP who encourages a depressed patient to seek therapy and counselling as well as or instead of taking drugs could arguably be claimed to be approaching the situation holistically. A Reiki practioner who waves their hands over someone's chakra's to stimulate rebalance of their energy to cure their depression is undoubtedly indulging in alternative medicine.

The extreme ends of both Western Medicine and Alternative Medicine are less than ideal imo. Homeopathy, for example, is horseshit, a prime example of an alternative medicine that has no basis whatsoever in science, logic or pure common sense. The fact that it's recogised by the NHS is nothing short of ludicrous.

Other areas of alternative medicine are quite fascinating though, especially those that tap into the mind-body connection.

Not sure if I had a point to this, I'm waffling...

Hanley

g'em wrote: »

Holistic medicine - when you take the view that to treat someone, you need to take their whole psychological and physical person into consideration - is a perfectly acceptable medical view. Things get murky and fall into the 'alternative' medicine point of view when you start seeing malaise and disease as being a result of imbalances in a person's emotional or energetic state.

A GP who encourages a depressed patient to seek therapy and counselling as well as or instead of taking drugs could arguably be claimed to be approaching the situation holistically. A Reiki practioner who waves their hands over someone's chakra's to stimulate rebalance of their energy to cure their depression is undoubtedly indulging in alternative medicine.

The extreme ends of both Western Medicine and Alternative Medicine are less than ideal imo. Homeopathy, for example, is horseshit, a prime example of an alternative medicine that has no basis whatsoever in science, logic or pure common sense. The fact that it's recogised by the NHS is nothing short of ludicrous.

Other areas of alternative medicine are quite fascinating though, especially those that tap into the mind-body connection.

Not sure if I had a point to this, I'm waffling...

That's a fine post. And could equally be applied to the physio/personal trainer/functional training guru's too.

A lot seem to operate in their own sphere of "expertise" and doesn't seek to think outside the box or treat the causes, only the symptoms.

jive

Sagesilver4 wrote: »

Oops! Seems I used the wrong word. Homeopathic may have been the word I meant to use. What I really meant was basically alternative medicine, like working with natural remedies and such.

It's just horseshít. Homeopathy is basically a serial dilution whereby the end result has lost all product of interest and you are left with just water. It doesn't work and has been proven to be ineffective. I vaguely recall that they attribute the fact that many solutions end up as just pure water as not important because of 'water memory', which as you can imagine has also never been proven.

Seriously, don't waste your time/money with homeopathy the whole thing is laughable. Herbal remedies et al. at least have some evidence to back up there claims however you can rarely trump conventional medicine.

g'em

Hanley wrote: »

That's a fine post. And could equally be applied to the physio/personal trainer/functional training guru's too.

Good point - as a matter of interest on the PT courses is there a Sports' Psychology module? If so what kind of things does it discuss?

For any of the instructors/ PTers/ tutors/ coaches here is Sports Psychology and a holistic-type approach something that you've considered or done?

alanajames

Sagesilver4 wrote: »

(Sorry in advance if this is the wrong thread to post this in - if it is, please tell me and I'll fix it!)

I remember being told a few years back that holistic medicine is illegal in practice in the UK, moreso than in the US, and that you couldn't even purchase/own books about such things legally. I tried googling it but I couldn't find anything one way or the other to tell me if this was true or not. Could someone please tell me if this is true or just a silly rumor? Thank you!

I've read these links with interest as I first published a directory of holistic health practitioners 20+ years ago in Colorado USA and we had over a thousand in the Denver area alone. Many types of therapies, not all herbal or supplemental are considered holistic.

More recently, now living in Ireland, I find that there are many good holistic directories on line - my favorite being: http://www.holisto.com/.

As for the disclaimers some people mention - to be sure to avoid coming under unnecessary challenge by the pharmaceutical model it is useful to disclaim. I myself support a natural product: <snip> that merges the technology of the holographic chip as a delivery system for herbal remedies. We use the disclaimer that we don't diagnose or cure disease (how could we) but we leave it up to our customers to decide if our products work (and of course they do). One thing to consider is that most holistic approaches, if not all of them, seldom have bad side effects - unfortunately not like some medicines.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we live in an amazing world and that pharmaceuticals and the medical model doesn't own all of it.

Oryx

alanajames I have removed a weblink you had in your post as it would be considered advertising.

Brian?

g'em wrote: »

Holistic medicine - when you take the view that to treat someone, you need to take their whole psychological and physical person into consideration - is a perfectly acceptable medical view. Things get murky and fall into the 'alternative' medicine point of view when you start seeing malaise and disease as being a result of imbalances in a person's emotional or energetic state.

A GP who encourages a depressed patient to seek therapy and counselling as well as or instead of taking drugs could arguably be claimed to be approaching the situation holistically. A Reiki practioner who waves their hands over someone's chakra's to stimulate rebalance of their energy to cure their depression is undoubtedly indulging in alternative medicine.

The extreme ends of both Western Medicine and Alternative Medicine are less than ideal imo. Homeopathy, for example, is horseshit, a prime example of an alternative medicine that has no basis whatsoever in science, logic or pure common sense. The fact that it's recogised by the NHS is nothing short of ludicrous.

Other areas of alternative medicine are quite fascinating though, especially those that tap into the mind-body connection.

Not sure if I had a point to this, I'm waffling...

The most fascinating point to come from long term studies of alternative therapies is actually the power of the placebo effect. Homeopathy has never been shown to out perform a placebo in any properly designed study, but both placebo and homeopathy always outperform the control where nothing is done.

I think studying why that is and applying it to a holistic approach has far more merit than most alternative therapies.

I could go on, but I think Dr. Goldacre says it better than me:

http://www.badscience.net/

Brian?

alanajames wrote: »

As for the disclaimers some people mention - to be sure to avoid coming under unnecessary challenge by the pharmaceutical model it is useful to disclaim. I myself support a natural product: <snip> that merges the technology of the holographic chip as a delivery system for herbal remedies. We use the disclaimer that we don't diagnose or cure disease (how could we) but we leave it up to our customers to decide if our products work (and of course they do). One thing to consider is that most holistic approaches, if not all of them, seldom have bad side effects - unfortunately not like some medicines.

So you take something that sounds scientific, which it most definitely is not and make absolutely claims about it actually doing anything to cure any ill health. Then people actually buy it?????? The reason it has not side effects is that it does NOTHING. I can guarantee you that.

What your are selling is not better than snake oil. It's a disgrace. This is not my opinion, it's scientific fact.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we live in an amazing world and that pharmaceuticals and the medical model doesn't own all of it.

You don't think that we can create drugs that save lives every day is amazing? It's far more amazing than sticking a hologram on a bracelet and making non specific claims about what it does.

Mack_1111

alanajames wrote: »

One thing to consider is that most holistic approaches, if not all of them, seldom have bad side effects

Depends on your definition of a side effect! There are examples and cases in Europe where people refused medical care to pursue an alternative/holistic treatment, they ended up dieing of curable diseases. That's a pretty bad side effect.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/death-of-baby-brings-new-debate-over-role-of-alternative-medicine-721091.html
http://www.garfield.library.upenn.edu/essays/v13p182y1990.pdf

JCabot

From my experience having worked in palliative care for over 20 years the patient's who have shown the best recovery are the ones with strong open minds and attitudes. These are the patients who use other forms of treatment alongside conventional medicines like homeopathy and acupuncture and don’t leave their wellbeing totally in the hands of the doctors or consultants. These are also the people who educate themselves on how exactly nutrition, detoxification, exercise and attitude can influence the body’s health. I can’t understand how anyone can knock homeopathy or even acupuncture based on a tabloid article without ever experiencing it. Yet these are the same people who never question prescription drugs or clinical trials or where this information source originates. Ignorance and the power of advertising must be at work.

hidinginthebush

JCabot wrote: »

From my experience having worked in palliative care for over 20 years the patients who have shown the best recovery are the ones with strong open minds and attitudes. These are the patients who use other forms of treatment alongside conventional medicines like homeopathy and acupuncture and don’t leave there wellbeing totally in the hands of the consultants. These are also the people who educate themselves on how exactly nutrition, detoxification, exercise and attitude can influence the body’s health. I can’t understand how anyone can knock homeopathy based on a tabloid article without ever experiencing it. Yet these are the same people who never question prescription drugs or clinical trials. Ignorance and the power of advertising must be at work.

I don't knock it based on a tabloid article, I knock it as homeopathy is based on nonsense: putting a small amount of what harmed you into water, then diluting this water so there's essentially no trace of this material left, will make you better now exactly? Compared to clinical trials, where it takes up to 10 years to test a drug from concept and huge amounts of regulatory checks and balances from government agencies must be satisfied along the way. Yeah, they're the same thing.

desertcircus

JCabot wrote: »

I can’t understand how anyone can knock homeopathy based on a tabloid article without ever experiencing it. Yet these are the same people who never question prescription drugs or clinical trials. Ignorance and the power of advertising must be at work.

Because we don't knock it based on a tabloid article. We dismiss it because it claims a mechanism that's literally impossible, dilutes to a truly mindboggling degree the substance it claims will do the trick, and repeatedly and consistently fails double-blind testing. There is no impartial evidence that it works. Ignorance and the power of advertising are at work, but not in the way you imagine.

Gingermagic

Would just like to point out that it is not illegal to practice herbalism in the UK and you buy books on the subject in most major book stores.

There are even open university courses on herbalism of sorts.

As to the age old argument as to whether or not homeopathy works, like pharmacuticals (spelling?) they will work for some and not for others, is it placebo science says yes, advocaters say otherwise. If it helps does it matter, I don't think anyone says it will cure a person, personally I think it is only that it helps them manager symptoms. But I cannot speak from experience only a theory.:)