Upgrading my alarm, comparison of different models

davkav

OK so I am looking at upgrading my existing alarm panel and keypad and I am exploring my options at the moment.

The panel and keypad have to be compatible with my existing wired contacts and inertia sensors (Aritech).

It has to have wireless sensor add-on functionality as well, as the main reason for updating the system is so that I can put 3 wireless motion sensors down stairs.

And at a minimum some sort of GSM dialler to inform me of the alarm triggering or the capability to plug it into my home network so that I can remotely manage my alarm. The last bit would be a nice to have rather than essential, the cost would be the deciding factor here.

So what are my options, I was dead set on the HKC Securewave but that is only because my local electrical wholesalers only sell that brand.

I have seen people mention Siemens alarms and Signet 220IP but I cant seem to find any good information about the different models.

I am actually surprised no one on here has put a good guide and comparison together...

Anyway any help on the above would be greatly appreciated,
Dave

davkav

Apologies, I searched last night and couldn't find anything about different models. I just searched there again and I have found loads of information.

However, can someone tell me if all wired components from different manufacturers are interchangeable. i.e. will my Aritech wired sensors be compatible with HKC, Siemens, Signet panels...

davkav

I reckon I am going to go for a Siemens alarm as they have the IP capability.

Any opinions on the Siemens IC60 range? Id imagine there quite expensive.

Calling over to Borsatec now in a few to have a chat about the Siemens units they have for sale.

davkav

Just back from Borsatec. They didnt really have much information to hand. Didnt even have the range of model numbers to hand. Didnt inspire too much confidence to be honest.

I called in to Richmond Electrical as well. Much more helpful, even gave me contact details of someone in Siemens so that they can help me spec out the parts I need.

davkav

I have also found this site here which seems to list alot of the Siemens Alarm stuff.

https://qa.spiap.com/products/intrusion/spc/centrales.html

Mad that they do not do a panel with LAN and Wireless Add on capability. You can only have one or the other.

KoolKid

davkav wrote: »

The panel and keypad have to be compatible with my existing wired contacts and inertia sensors (Aritech).

Most panels would be comaptable with these.

davkav wrote: »

It has to have wireless sensor add-on functionality as well, as the main reason for updating the system is so that I can put 3 wireless motion sensors down stairs.

Siemens would do that for you.

davkav wrote: »

And at a minimum some sort of GSM dialler to inform me of the alarm triggering or the capability to plug it into my home network so that I can remotely manage my alarm.

Siemens 4320 or 5320 Would do that for you.

davkav wrote: »

So what are my options, I was dead set on the HKC Securewave but that is only because my local electrical wholesalers only sell that brand.

You decision should be based on features & cost. Not what one supplier wants to sell you. Bear in mind some suppliers are given accounts with certain manufacturers based on exclusivity. So they would not have your best interests at heart.

davkav wrote: »

I have seen people mention Siemens alarms and Signet 220IP but I cant seem to find any good information about the different models.

The Siemens 5320 is the newer version of the SigNet 220
Hopefully the links above give you some ideas.
Also take a look at this one

The basic Siemens without IP would be in or around the same cost as HKC Secure wave but with some nice extra features.
The 4220 does have a Webserver but not IP . It can be accessed vis GSM with a data connection or locally via USB.
I personally would recommend going the extra few euro for IP. Its a great system that you can build on & add home automation & access if you wish.

davkav

Thanks for all of the info KoolKid.

It is exactly what I was looking for. I couldn't find details about the differences across the SPC range.

Looks like the SPC 5320 is the one that ticks all of the boxes for my needs and then some

I was opting for the 4320 but having the X10 feature would nice to expand on in the future.

I am also going to get a price on both types of keypads:

SPCK420 and the SPCK620. The 620 looks a lot cleaner and nicer to look at.

Any chance you know if there are any kits (panel and keypad) for the above and their Product Codes?
REW had the SPC4220 with the K420 in stock yesterday as a kit.

So my shopping list as it stands:
1 x SPC5320 - Panel
2 x SPCK620 - Keypad
3 x IR60W6-10 - Wireless PIR detector
2 x IOPW6-11 - Wireless Smoke Detector

KoolKid

The 4220K1 is the only kit that comes with a keypad.
This is without wireless & because it come with a metal lid you would need to buy the external wireless kit.
There are no other kits that i am aware of at the moment.
I would recommend going for the 5320 over the 4320 much more features & capacity for relativly little extra.

A standard keypad is around €80-€90
The 620 is double & the 621 (Which has audion & pace ) is around €240
These are nice , but they are aimed at the commercial market.
REW can source anything like this thats not in stock in 2-3 days generally.
I would also recommend calling Finglas rather than Ballymount with any queries.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

The 4220K1 is the only kit that comes with a keypad.
This is without wireless & because it come with a metal lid you would need to buy the external wireless kit.
There are no other kits that i am aware of at the moment.
I would recommend going for the 5320 over the 4320 much more features & capacity for relativly little extra.

A standard keypad is around €80-€90
The 620 is double & the 621 (Which has audion & pace ) is around €240
These are nice , but they are aimed at the commercial market.
REW can source anything like this thats not in stock in 2-3 days generally.
I would also recommend calling Finglas rather than Ballymount with any queries.

Thanks KoolKid.

If its double the price its probably not worth it then, I will probably just stick with 420 then.

REW Finglas is the branch I was in yesterday and I can say they are bang on to deal with.

davkav

Just in case anyone is interested REW gave me prices on the keypads and panel. They have to get back to me with a price on the sensors.

SPC5320 Panel €223 + VAT
SPCK420 Keypad €69 + VAT

KoolKid

There is the option of the 4320 with Web server.

davkav

I just read the PDF there again and I swear i thought the 4320 didn't have X10 capability.

Ill be getting a price on the 4320 then.

minder2009

hello
I have a cs350 Aritech system. It is working reasonably well. I have all the sensors /pirs where I want them. However the Control panel is in the attic. The system does not comply with the En regulations.

The panel will have to be extended down to the landing and as it is nearly 10 years old it would be uneconomical to move it.

I wondered is there a modern system that would be compatible with the sensors that are on the system OR would it be the case that they are too near the end of their life and better off replaced?

I have no landline but want a dialler on it as well as a fob to turn it on/off.

from looking at the boards i see someone mention the quantam newly released that has a dialler inbuilt.

appreciate advice. its a 3 bed semi with small kitchen extension.

PS I would like to put a wireless RKP at the back door.

KoolKid

If you want the system to conform to EN50131 then you will need to get a licenced installer to upgrade & certify your alarm. You also need it regularly serviced to maintain that standard.

KoolKid

davkav wrote: »

I just read the PDF there again and I swear i thought the 4320 didn't have X10 capability.

Ill be getting a price on the 4320 then.

I am not 100% on this, so I stand to be corrected, But I think the 4320 does do basic X10.Without the cause & effect. It does have the Web Server.

minder2009

KoolKid wrote: »

If you want the system to conform to EN50131 then you will need to get a licenced installer to upgrade & certify your alarm. You also need it regularly serviced to maintain that standard

Ok thanks ......any advice in my query re getting rid of or and installing new .......I was just looking at the spec in the quamtam 70 hkc seems to have spec I am looking for. I added an extra rkp to my Cs 350 recently..... dear enough I suppose u can't mix and match with the quantum ... Shame to waste it...just wondered.....

KoolKid

No you can't mix & match keypads.
Is your house prewired?
If so there is no need for the likes of the Quantum.
Take a look at the Siemens 4000 range. Pricewise its similar to the HKC 1070 but some nice extra features for yor money.
BTW you don't have to move the panel from the attic to comply. You just need to protect the attic.

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Ok thanks ......any advice in my query re getting rid of or and installing new .......I was just looking at the spec in the quamtam 70 hkc seems to have spec I am looking for. I added an extra rkp to my Cs 350 recently..... dear enough I suppose u can't mix and match with the quantum ... Shame to waste it...just wondered.....

The HKC Securewave 10/70 would be better to install in your case as you have all the wired devices, windows, doors and the PIRs plus you would still have the ability to add wire free sensors if needs be.

davkav

davkav wrote: »

So my shopping list as it stands:
1 x SPC5320 - Panel
2 x SPCK620 - Keypad
3 x IR60W6-10 - Wireless PIR detector
2 x IOPW6-11 - Wireless Smoke Detector

Anyone have any info on what your standard issue Siemens Wireless PIR model number is? I suppose I can just ask REW to get me a price on all four types.

Link to Wireless PIR models

KoolKid

I think its IR60W6-10 .
Are you dealing with REW in Finglas or Ballymount.?

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

I think its IR60W6-10 .
Are you dealing with REW in Finglas or Ballymount.?

Cool thanks.

Dealing with Collie in the Finglas branch.
I've to drop him an email tomorrow with the order.

KoolKid

They are still getting up to speed on some of the Siemens codes etc. But himself or Dave would be the best to be dealing with.

davkav

There sound lads and very helpful alright.

Yeah he had prices for the 4220 kit and the 5320 but needed to make a phone call to get prices for accessories so I said hold off until I know exactly what I want.

I'll get prices on all four PIR's for anyone else that might be looking.

KoolKid

Are you planning much wireless ?

davkav

Well the PIR's will be going in straight away.

And then for future expansion there could be lets say 3 additonal windows eventually added on to the house.

I suppose, thinking about it now, I could run new alarm cable to the extension that might be built.
And I could probably take up some of the floor boards in the landing and hard wire the PIR's.

Why do yo ask?

altor

Any prices on the window wire free inertia/contacts?
Might be good to have if down the road cables can't be installed.

KoolKid

Inertia contacts would be around the €45

davkav

Well that's it as well. The wireless will be handy to have in case of any cable faults going to the sensors that are already fitted.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Well that's it as well. The wireless will be handy to have in case of any cable faults going to the sensors that are already fitted.

You will need to buy the receiver to use inertia/contacts on this system.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Inertia contacts would be around the €45

Does that include Vat?

davkav

Ok I've got prices back from REW

SPC4320 CONTROL PANEL 210.70
SPC5320 CONTROL PANEL 227.24
SPCK420 KEYPAD 63.15
SPCK620 KEYPAD 135.97
IR60W6-10 SIEMENS Wireless PIR 35.00
IR100B SIEMENS "Swisstec" Wired PIR 14.70
IR65W6-10 SIEMENS Wireless Ceiling PIR 37.50
IR160W6-10 SIEMENS Wireless black mirror PIR 41.25
ADM-I12W1 SIEMENS Wireless Quad PIR 37.50
IOPW6-11 SIEMENS Wireless Smoke Detector 47.50

Prices are exVAT

Looks Ill probably go with the 5320 seen as there is only €17 in the difference.

So:
1 x SPC5320
2 x SPCK420
3 x IR60W6-10
1 x IOPW6-11

Totalling: €612

davkav

altor wrote: »

You will need to buy the receiver to use inertia/contacts on this system.

Are you sure? So the wireless is only for PIR's and other accessories?

altor

davkav wrote: »

Are you sure? So the wireless is only for PIR's and other accessories?

That is correct, they won't be making inertias for this system. The workaround is to add a visonic receiver to the keypad to make the sensors work.

davkav

altor wrote: »

That is correct, they won't be making inertias for this system. The workaround is to add a visonic receiver to the keypad to make the sensors work.

Any idea how much the visonic receiver goes for?

I don't think its an issue anyway. If I was building on to the side of the house, like we are planning in the distant future, I can run new alarm cable through the attic from the panel in the hot press.

The wireless is mainly for the PIR's to be fitted in the existing part of the house.

davkav

More prices for peeps in case they are interested.

Just picked up a few bits from National Electical Wholesalers (NEW) in Rosemount, Blanchardstown.

HKC Shock Sensor - 9.20
HKC Shock Sensor with Contact - 11.95
Panic Button - 3.17

(exVAT)

altor

€30-€40

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Does that include Vat?

For Visonic yes.

There is also an option to add Visonic receiver in the panel and add Siemens into keypad. This would possibly be the cheaper option.
Or cheaper again would be use all Visonic and just one receiver.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

For Visonic yes.

There is also an option to add Visonic receiver in the panel and add Siemens into keypad. This would possibly be the cheaper option.
Or cheaper again would be use all Visonic and just one receiver.

What do you mean when you say add Siemens into the keypad?

KoolKid

The Siemens Wireless Receiver.
Very little difference between the 4320 & 5320 €17 for a massive difference in spec.
Can see why anyone would buy a 4320 with those prices.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

For Visonic yes.

Care to share where they can be got that cheap €50.43 is the cheapest in most suppliers?

KoolKid wrote: »

There is also an option to add Visonic receiver in the panel and add Siemens into keypad. This would possibly be the cheaper option.
Or cheaper again would be use all Visonic and just one receiver.

This option is available at the moment, cant see it lasting.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Care to share where they can be got that cheap €50.43 is the cheapest in most suppliers?

I'll PM ya

altor wrote: »

This option is available at the moment, cant see it lasting.

I'm working on that.;)

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

The Siemens Wireless Receiver.
Very little difference between the 4320 & 5320 €17 for a massive difference in spec.
Can see why anyone would buy a 4320 with those prices.

Oh I get ya. Use the siemens for the PIR's and Visonic for the other sensors or Visonic for all.
Bit slow on the uptake there.

Yeah €17 in the difference kind of makes the 4320 pointless.

KoolKid

davkav wrote: »

Yeah €17 in the difference kind of makes the 4320 pointless.

Yeah , I tried my best to get that across to Siemens.;)

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Yeah , I tried my best to get that across to Siemens.;)

They'll soon realise when the 4320 doesn't sell.

KoolKid

davkav wrote: »

They'll soon realise when the 4320 doesn't sell.

Yeah & up the price of the 5320:rolleyes:

chipemulator

hello Koolkid

You help me on the past and you are a great expert on signet, may be you can help me!
I bought Signet 220 panel last year. It´s a great panel!
Firmware is 1.4b and signetpro is 1.38.
Right now signet panel are replaced by siemens panels.

There is any new firmware for signet panel?
Can i use Siemens firmware on it?
and what about signet pro?

Regards

chip

KoolKid

There is no official update from SigNET to Siemens.
SPC Pro replaces SigNET Pro but they will not connect to the opposing panels.

sette

davkav wrote: »

Ok I've got prices back from REW

SPC4320 CONTROL PANEL 210.70
SPC5320 CONTROL PANEL 227.24
SPCK420 KEYPAD 63.15
SPCK620 KEYPAD 135.97
IR60W6-10 SIEMENS Wireless PIR 35.00
IR100B SIEMENS "Swisstec" Wired PIR 14.70
IR65W6-10 SIEMENS Wireless Ceiling PIR 37.50
IR160W6-10 SIEMENS Wireless black mirror PIR 41.25
ADM-I12W1 SIEMENS Wireless Quad PIR 37.50
IOPW6-11 SIEMENS Wireless Smoke Detector 47.50

Prices are exVAT

Looks Ill probably go with the 5320 seen as there is only €17 in the difference.

So:
1 x SPC5320
2 x SPCK420
3 x IR60W6-10
1 x IOPW6-11

Totalling: €612

Hello devkav and KoolKid

Devkav, any success with your order from REW? Is your SPC5320 up and running?

I have tried to contact REW in Finglas for prices for SPC5320+accessories and whether or not they ship to Sweden. No response to my mail after more than one week

However, reemelectronics.co.uk do have the SPC5320 for £295 incl VAT. Is there anyone on this forum who can recommend this site? Good/Bad experience?

Regards
Sette

davkav

Have you tried ringing them?

Picked up the goods from REW yesterday. Let me just say they are top people to deal with.

The first place I went to didnt even ring me back the next day like they had said. They even had the Siemens brochure for the SPC range on their counter top, so I would have presumed they would have gotten back to me. Ah well their loss.

Keypad looks nice and fresh (if thats the word) over the Aritech one. Hoping to get it fitted over the weekend. Ill post pics of the two units beside each other and the mess that is my existing panel.

KoolKid

Good luck with it Dav. ID you get stuck on anything you know where we are.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Good luck with it Dav. ID you get stuck on anything you know where we are.

Cheers KoolKid. I wouldn't have gotten this far with you's that's for sure.