24 men, women and children killed - get 3 months in prison (max)

CrazyRabbit

Sickening display of so-called US 'Justice'.

Fair enough that this guy didn't do the murdering, and only gave a extremely poor order to 'shoot first', but that's enough for a manslaughter charge. The soldiers who fired their guns should be charged with 1st degree murder.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0124/wuterichf.html

A US soldier court-martialled over the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians faces three months' imprisonment at most after admitting dereliction of duty, meaning manslaughter charges were dropped.

A US soldier court-martialled over the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians admitted dereliction of duty, but manslaughter charges were dropped yesterday.
Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich had faced nine counts of voluntary manslaughter and other charges over killings in the Iraqi town of Haditha in 2005. He now faces three months' imprisonment at most.
He pleaded guilty to one count of negligent dereliction of duty, and will face a sentencing hearing today, said a spokesman for Camp Pendleton in California, where the 31-year-old went to a military trial earlier this month.
The Marine, who accepted responsibility for giving orders which led to the deaths, could also be reduced in rank to private, and have his pay cut by two-thirds for three months.
"Staff Sergeant Wuterich accepted responsibility... and agreed and admits that he gave a verbal order to shoot first, ask questions later, or don't hesitate to shoot, and words to that effect," said spokesman Joe Koppel.
"That verbal instruction caused his Marines to (not) positively identify targets in the two homes. And now, at the sentencing phase, he'll be held accountable for those actions."
Wuterich's attorney Neal Puckett said his client - who had been reported to be considering a plea deal last weekend - made the final decision.
"This was his decision and his decision alone," he told the North County Times. "Staff Sergeant Wuterich believed this was the right and honorable thing to do."
In all, 24 Iraqi civilians were killed - 19 in several houses along with the five men who pulled up in a car in the Iraqi town of Haditha on 19 November, 2005.
The victims included 10 women or children killed at point-blank range. Six people were killed in one house, most shot in the head, including women and children huddled in a bedroom.
The other seven Marines charged in the case have been exonerated through various legal rulings, fuelling anger in Iraq, where authorities had pushed for US troops to be subject to Iraqi justice before the US pullout in December.
Yesterday's plea deal was announced at the start of what would have been the third full week of the court-martial at Camp Pendleton, where Wuterich has been an active serving Marine pending the long-delayed legal action against him.

Temptamperu

Sure the victims dont count, they're just rag heads :mad:

davet82

its a sick world

Sykk

In before U.S are the greatest threat to mankind debate.. etc.

Attabear

Sykk wrote: »

In before U.S are the greatest threat to mankind debate.. etc.

Tenner says this descends into debate about Israel and Palestinians.

starbelgrade

Never wear the butchers' apron.

Chuck Stone

The Iraqis have had a bad run of rotten luck for a long time now.

Let's hope things get better for them and they can live without fear.

Chuck Stone

Attabear wrote: »

Tenner says this descends into debate about Israel and Palestinians.

Tenners can't speak. :pac:

MarkR

Disgraceful carry on. Should have been dishonourably discharged and gotten 25 years. The soldiers firing the shots should also be on charges. Did they get anything?

M cebee

nothing new this sort of hypocrisy

Attabear

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Tenners can't speak. :pac:

Mine can and they're very political unlike fivers who don't give a f**k.

Nothingbetter2d

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Tenners can't speak. :pac:

they sing dont they?:D

force eleven

So much death and misery just for oil.

markesmith

This is no different to the sickening violence perpetrated by the Zionist state against those poor Palestinians!!

Attabear wrote: »

Tenner says this descends into debate about Israel and Palestinians.

Whoops

Fear Uladh

The victims included 10 women or children killed at point-blank range

C*nt. :mad:

charlemont

America is becoming more like a nazi-type state everyday, If the victims were white would they get such a **** sentence ??

MungBean

The victims included 10 women or children killed at point-blank range. Six people were killed in one house, most shot in the head, including women and children huddled in a bedroom

I dont understand how this isnt murder, whoever gave the order along with those who carried it out should be done for multiple counts of 1st degree murder.

Boggles the mind it really does.

Fear Uladh

MungBean wrote: »

I dont understand how this isnt murder, whoever gave the order along with those who carried it out should be done for multiple counts of 1st degree murder.

Boggles the mind it really does.

They are fighting for freedom, one nation under God. *hums American national anthem*

vibe666

MungBean wrote: »

I dont understand how this isnt murder, whoever gave the order along with those who carried it out should be done for multiple counts of 1st degree murder.

Boggles the mind it really does.

i don't care what sort of orders they were given, every soldier should question an order that would lead to an outcome like that unless they are some kind of sick fcuktards getting off on it imho.

even a battle hardened soldier should have alarm bells ringing in their head about a shoot to kill order when they see women and children cowering in fear in a room. any rational human being wouldn't be able to do something like that to animals, never mind people. :mad:

Lambsbread

In war I have to understand that civilian casualties will happen. These soldiers did not decide to invade Iraq and follow orders from the top. Therefore, sometimes soldiers will need protection if they do unfortunately kill an innocent civilian by accident.

However, the circumstances here just seem so wrong. How can so many of the victims be killed at point-blank range? It is hard to understand the context from from the article, but it is still very difficult to understand.

wes

Pretty appaling decision altogether. They all should spend the rest of there lives in a prison, as the nuremburg defense is no excuse for those who fired.

mikemac1

vibe666 wrote: »

shoot to kill order

No such thing as shoot to wound

giles lynchwood

Siht happen's.Get over it.

token101

Is Rick Perry going to say they were just kids getting up to some hijinx again?

DEFTLEFTHAND

If an American kills another citizen in America they face the prospect of death or never been released again, if your in the army fighting for old glory overseas you can kill 24 people and be out in less than 3 months.

Paddy Cow

It's a ridiculous ruling but they are probably protecting themselves against further trials. God knows how many other incidents there are along these lines and they will do everything possible to cover them up :mad:

Treason

Lambsbread wrote: »

These soldiers did not decide to invade Iraq and follow orders from the top.

They bloody well did decide to "follow orders from the top". Thats what you do when you join an army, follow orders.

These people are complicit and enablers of the conquests of the ruling class. Paid agents of a rogue state.

If any of them had a brain, or a conscience, they would not be in the army to begin with. Delinquents looking for some self worth, status, respect and acceptance by putting on the uniform of a murderous regime.

Scum, every single one of them. From the pencil pushers in administration to the filthbags walking the streets of another peoples land.

Manic Moran

Paddy Cow wrote: »

It's a ridiculous ruling but they are probably protecting themselves against further trials. God knows how many other incidents there are along these lines and they will do everything possible to cover them up :mad:

It wasn't a ruling, it seems to have been a plea deal. My guess is that it was accepted because the prosecution did not truly believe that it had sufficient evidence in the case to guarantee a conviction on the charges and went with a ' certain something' over a ' possible nothing'

What would this thread be had there actually been a judgement of ' not guilty'?

NTM

Attabear

Treason wrote: »

They bloody well did decide to "follow orders from the top". Thats what you do when you join an army, follow orders.

These people are complicit and enablers of the conquests of the ruling class. Paid agents of a rogue state.

If any of them had a brain, or a conscience, they would not be in the army to begin with. Delinquents looking for some self worth, status, respect and acceptance by putting on the uniform of a murderous regime.

Scum, every single one of them. From the pencil pushers in administration to the filthbags walking the streets of another peoples land.

I admire your passion but I disagree with your analysis.

Paddy Cow

Manic Moran wrote: »

It wasn't a ruling, it seems to have been a plea deal. My guess is that it was accepted because the prosecution did not truly believe that it had sufficient evidence in the case to guarantee a conviction on the charges and went with a ' certain something' over a ' possible nothing'

What would this thread be had there actually been a judgement of ' not guilty'?

NTM

Sorry, ridiculous plea deal. The whole thing is fcuked up. Soldiers are more often than not put on a super hero type pedestal and war is glamorised to depcit them as if they are bravely fighting against truely evil adversaries. Trying saying anything even slightly critical and wait for the "they gave their lives fighting so you could be a keyboard warrior" etc style outrage. Then you hear stories like this and it's unimaginable what/how it happened.

It's a dispicable story but it's a catch 22 situation. On the one hand I can see that just because they are women and children, it doesn't mean that they don't have a bomb strapped to their chest so everyone is a potential treat but on the other, I can't get the image of frightened innocent civilians huddled in a bedroom and being shot in the head execution style. In a war where life is so disposible, it's very possible that insurgents were mixed with the civilians and didn't care if they caused innocent people to get killed but then again, the US do have a reputation of shoot first, ask questions later. You could go crazy trying to make sense out of it.

Manic Moran

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Sorry, ridiculous plea deal. The whole thing is fcuked up. Soldiers are more often than not put on a super hero type pedestal and war is glamorised to depcit them as if they are bravely fighting against truely evil adversaries. Trying saying anything even slightly critical and wait for the "they gave their lives fighting so you could be a keyboard warrior" etc style outrage. Then you hear stories like this and it's unimaginable what/how it happened.

If it's unimaginable, then how do you know as a certainy that the prosecution's case was winnable?

The article states that the trial was in its third week. It is not unfeasible that the case was not going to the prosecution's satisfaction for whatever reason and they decided to cut their losses. This is not an episode of Law and Order where the 'right' outcome is scripted.

NTM

Paddy Cow

Manic Moran wrote: »

If it's unimaginable, then how do you know as a certainy that the prosecution's case was winnable?

I don't and I never said that.

The article states that the trial was in its third week. It is not unfeasible that the case was not going to the prosecution's satisfaction for whatever reason and they decided to cut their losses. This is not an episode of Law and Order where the 'right' outcome is scripted.

NTM

In the second part of my post it's clear that I don't see it as a black and white case and don't expect a Law and Order outcome.

robman60

Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable.

It's hardly an isolated incident though. Remember the Reuters' journalists and Iraqi civilians murdered by American choppers in 2007? not one conviction was made after that.

Going back to My Lai in Vietnam ONE person was put under house arrest for approximately two years when 500+ civilians were murdered.

It all has to be kept quite in the US though, as the government wants to ensure that another generation believe the lie that joining the army is some duty that makes God happy.

A crying shame all in all.

the_syco

Lambsbread wrote: »

How can so many of the victims be killed at point-blank range?

I'd question what they'd call "point blank", as opposed to what I'd call "point blank".

Also, I dare say their sentences would be longer if the US was still "in" Iraq...

Lavezzi

The solution is to get out of the matrix and into the real world. Syberia is a good place. I'm going to go there. Find a nice secluded house, hundreds of miles from anyone and live out my days self-sufficient whilst the world crumbles in WW3 around me. Then, when it's all over I'm going to venture down into Israel guns blazing killing every jew responsible for the destruction of our world.

Mod note - user banned.

AnonoBoy

Lavezzi wrote: »

Then, when it's all over I'm going to venture down into Israel guns blazing killing every jew responsible for the destruction of our world.

Did you eat that old cheese you found down the back of the radiator? You're sure posting like you did!

Pacifist Pigeon

Meanwhile, if you're caught stealing cookies from a shop on three consequtive occasions, you get get 25 year (or over) in prison, even if you have no other offensives on your record.

America! Fuck Yeah!

jackal

This thread brings out the crazies!

What can you say, an Iraqi life is never going to equal an American life in American eyes, especially in a combat situation where a booby trap has just gone off.

The reality of the situation is that American troops are never going to get ****ed over by their own army for killing non-westerner's or non-American's unless it's a stone cold slam dunk that the whole world has seen the evidence for. Any chance of reasonable doubt and forget it, they will protect their own.

If I was a potential recruit to the US Army I would be thinking twice if this guy had gotten a life sentence.

MagicSean

What did he do that justified the manslaughter charge? Was it just the order he gave the soldiers?

WindSock

But clearly a juror researching info online is the bigger crime. She gets 6 months, 3 suspended.

http://www.asianage.com/international/juror-jailed-online-research-about-accused-752

A woman juror in Britain has been sentenced to six months in prison for contempt of court after conducting an internet search on a man whose case she was hearing.
Lecturer Theodora Dallas, 34, discovered that the man had previously been acquitted of rape and she told her fellow jurors about it. It led the trial at Luton Crown Court last July to be abandoned, the Daily Express reported.
Dallas, a Greek national who denied contempt, was at the time a psychology lecturer at Bedfordshire University, in Luton town. She disobeyed the judge's instructions not to seek information on internet, London's high court heard.
Attorney General Dominic Grieve, who brought the prosecution, said later on Radio 4's World At One: "It is central to the fairness of our trial process that only what is heard in court should determine the jury's verdict."


The man, however, was later retried for assault and jailed.

Yeah yeah, different country, not at war, different rules what am I doing here, I don't know.

AskMyChocolate

Manic Moran wrote: »

If it's unimaginable, then how do you know as a certainy that the prosecution's case was winnable?

The article states that the trial was in its third week. It is not unfeasible that the case was not going to the prosecution's satisfaction for whatever reason and they decided to cut their losses. This is not an episode of Law and Order where the 'right' outcome is scripted.

NTM

It is possible that this was the case, however, it is far more likely that the prosecution had no interest in winning their case. It certainly shows America and American military justice in an even poorer light than had already been felt worldwide, if that's possible.

I can fully understand why America would not want the case to be tried in Iraq, but while it continues to refuse to allow cases like this to be tried by the International Criminal Court, it can expect the world to continue to hold it's military justice system, it's sense of entitled privilege, and its double-standards in contempt.

wes

US soldier to serve no time for Iraq killings

So no time behind bars. Amazing and American's will keep wondering why some people see them as little better than terrorists, despite them constantly pulling crap like this.

MileyByrne

IIRC, a "Staff Sergeant" is not an officer.

Officers are the ones who give the commands and the soldiers relay those orders. This Staff Sergeant probably just interpreted an order differently than normal. He's not trained the same way as an officer is and is therefore not culpable.

AngryBollix

People seem to have this idea that the Americans do Justice in a way that is to be emulated.

This is nonsense as shown by this story

Manic Moran

MileyByrne wrote: »

IIRC, a "Staff Sergeant" is not an officer.

Officers are the ones who give the commands and the soldiers relay those orders. This Staff Sergeant probably just interpreted an order differently than normal. He's not trained the same way as an officer is and is therefore not culpable.

He's an officer, just a non commissioned one. An order from him has the full weight of an order behind him. I would be curious to hear the exact verbiage used.